POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[PilotMan]

Taylor Swift has officially endorsed Harris. I for one, welcome our Swiftie overlords.

[Atocep]

Signing her endorsement, "Childless cat lady" was a nice touch.

[Drake]

I'm going to do something painful and give credit where credit is due. Other than the trans-gender illegal aliens bit, Trump said absolutely nothing that was remotely interesting. He gave me nothing that amped up the volume (or adrenaline?).

And that's something. He (mostly) stayed in his lane. Didn't do anything outlandish or say anything remarkable.

He gave me no reason to vote for him or think he was qualified to do the job. At least Harris seemed to have some ideas, and I appreciated that.

That said, my vote has always been between Harris and throwing it away on a third party..but tonight pushed me closer to voting for Harris, because I think coming out of the debate that she at least has some ideas for solving the economy. (And I'm in that weird place where my month-to-month isn't what I'd call great, but the stock market keeps telling me that my retirement is pretty secure, so I'm not in what I'd call a bad place...but an improvement in the month-to-month wouldn't hurt.)

The problem for Trump is that I think he *has* to keep raising the stakes to stay relevant, whether or not any of that pans out. So at the end of the day, I'd say that staying in his lane and trying to appear presidential was probably a loser for him. In his case, it really is better to burn out than to fade away, because that's the bar he's set for himself.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm going to do something painful and give credit where credit is due. Other than the trans-gender illegal aliens bit, Trump said absolutely nothing that was remotely interesting. He gave me nothing that amped up the volume (or adrenaline?).

And that's something. He (mostly) stayed in his lane. Didn't do anything outlandish or say anything remarkable.

He gave me no reason to vote for him or think he was qualified to do the job. At least Harris seemed to have some ideas, and I appreciated that.

That said, my vote has always been between Harris and throwing it away on a third party..but tonight pushed me closer to voting for Harris, because I think coming out of the debate that she at least has some ideas for solving the economy. (And I'm in that weird place where my month-to-month isn't what I'd call great, but the stock market keeps telling me that my retirement is pretty secure, so I'm not in what I'd call a bad place...but an improvement in the month-to-month wouldn't hurt.)

The problem for Trump is that I think he *has* to keep raising the stakes to stay relevant, whether or not any of that pans out. So at the end of the day, I'd say that staying in his lane and trying to appear presidential was probably a loser for him. In his case, it really is better to burn out than to fade away, because that's the bar he's set for himself.

Nitpicking your post, I know, but I would consider a former and potential president saying migrants are eating their neighbors pets outlandish and remarkable.

[NobodyHere]

I may actually hold my nose and vote for Harris this election. Not because I like her, but because Trump/Vance is just so fricken terrible.

[RainMaker]

A key point missing in a lot of post debate analysis is that Trump’s claim about immigrants eating pets almost perfectly syncs up to the piano in the Peanuts theme song. pic.twitter.com/6icWLe1sPN

— Noah Garfinkel (@NoahGarfinkel) September 11, 2024

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The "extreme left" that makes up 75% of your party.

The same idiots that thought Biden should stay in the race are going to tell everyone that Harris is doing well.

You think I'm a Democrat? lol. It's true I haven't voted for an R since 2016 and I didn't vote for Trump in 2016, but I'm far from a registered Dem. There are plenty of things the Dems do that I detest, but when I look at the Trump R party I vote what, in my view, is best for the country, and that ain't Donald.

I've thought the "party atmosphere" since Harris was nominated is way too optimistic. Trump has more lives than a cat. I'll believe Harris won when she's declared the winner and not until.

Originally Posted by Radii

I get that rainmaker can be abrasive but "I'm sorry, I draw a hard line at voting for genocide and both candidates are equally funding that, and the 'lesser evil' is actively shitting on protestors during our only opportunity to try to drag the party platform even a smidgen to the left" isn't the most unreasonable take in the world. I think hearing that and making the dismissive judgments that many are making is a bit much.

It's just not that much to ask of a candidate to not openly fund and arm a genocide, and if none of them can do that, maybe I make a protest vote or leave my ballot blank in the top spot.

It's not unreasonable, but one also has to live in the world we are in now. In this world protest votes or blank ballots can result in a woman losing the choice of what they do with their body among many other things. There are consequences, this is the reality.

[RainMaker]

What is it you think Democrats will do to restore reproductive rights? They have had control of the executive and legislative branch many times and done nothing.

And why do you think what they would do justifies supporting genocide?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Nitpicking your post, I know, but I would consider a former and potential president saying migrants are eating their neighbors pets outlandish and remarkable.

Fair enough. I'd heard that story earlier in the day, so it didn't seem so outlandish to me.

I would 100% agree that a presidential candidate repeating that story in a debate should be outlandish...but here we are in 2024.

Sometimes it feels weird to think that if George H.W. Bush was running for president today, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, given how opposed to him I was in the 1980s.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What is it you think Democrats will do to restore reproductive rights? They have had control of the executive and legislative branch many times and done nothing.

And why do you think what they would do justifies supporting genocide?

I'm an old man who doesn't think about abortion much. Those days are behind me...and if I'm honest, I've never been pro-abortion, but I always limited that to I'd personally never have one (or want my wife to have one)... but I also hold a theological position that maintains that sin (and I absolutely believe that abortion as prophylaxis is a sin) shouldn't be a legislative issue.

Rare, safe, and legal may be a myth, but it's a myth I believe in.

But I also say that as a guy whose (now ex) wife had multiple miscarriages, and the last miscarriage was technically an abortion because they needed to clean things up so that we could ultimately have our youngest son. Life is complicated. But I wouldn't trade the life of my youngest son for any set of principles that would have precluded his having been born in the first place.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What is it you think Democrats will do to restore reproductive rights? They have had control of the executive and legislative branch many times and done nothing.

And why do you think what they would do justifies supporting genocide?

Did you even listen to her answer on this issue compared to his? I wont debate you on Biden but there is a clear difference on this issue with these two candidates.

[Swaggs]

These were all things that Trump said or talked about (saw it listed elsewhere):

She hates Israel
She hates Arabs
Transgendered criminal sex changes in prison
Immigrants eating dogs
Orban likes me and thinks I’m strong
They are doing after birth abortion
I have the concept of a plan (regarding replacing the ACA)
I hate solar, but I am a fan of it.
Biden hates her

So crazy that he has a 50% shot of being president again.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Danny

Did you even listen to her answer on this issue compared to his? I wont debate you on Biden but there is a clear difference on this issue with these two candidates.

I know what her answer is. How does she propose passing that bill without 60+ Senate seats?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm going to do something painful and give credit where credit is due. Other than the trans-gender illegal aliens bit, Trump said absolutely nothing that was remotely interesting. He gave me nothing that amped up the volume (or adrenaline?).

I got that same impression (though I think there was a few more insane statements than that). I think we might just have become too accustomed to his insanity. Of course almost everything he said was ridiculous, but it was also stuff I heard him say before so many times. I came away from watching thinking she did decently well, and Trump did same old same old. Then I look at the reactions and think "Did I just miss it?" No, I think it is more just what I had grown to expect.

[Lathum]

She did a masterful job of giving him the perfect amount of rope to hang himself.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

CNN Reporting Swift just endorsed Harris. Amazing timing.

It is bigger than that. Caitlin Clark liked the post! They are so over. Meanwhile Elon...

perhaps one of the creepiest posts of all time pic.twitter.com/Ewgyps3Txn

— beer person (@CantEverDie) September 11, 2024

[Lathum]

really doing a great job of shaking that weird label

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It'll be tough for Joe but he should step aside for the greater good. I really don't think Kamala can win it, so I'm thinking Newsome (and/or Michelle) is the best shot the Dems have.

Welp, reality has set in and we are at the red zone. I think Kamala has a decent chance of winning it.

Hopefully, her team has a plan to work with the Swifties. I like Swift's statement, basically I've done my research, you do yours, and get out to vote. Hope that resonates.

[GrantDawg]

Trump said last night that he doesn't know if he will debate again because he won last nights debate, and that he wants a Fox News moderated debate if does. He doesn't want Martha McCallum & Bret Baier as moderators, either. He wants Hannity, Waters or Ingraham.

[Ksyrup]

I had a much better time catching up on a couple of episodes of Top Chef Wisconsin last night. Nothing that was said or done was going to change my vote, and I detest the sound of Trump's voice as if he was Fran Drescher in The Nanny, so there was no way in hell I was watching. But, I'm glad she did well and he was himself. Although that's unfortunately worked out pretty well for him in the past.

From what I'm reading this morning, the GOP/right-wingers are falling all over themselves claiming moderator bias. I don't know because I didn't watch, but I'm sure Harris made a couple of comments that push the boundaries of truth, or lacked context, etc. I wish the moderators had a plan to call out a couple of those so they had a counter for that. The simple answer is we fact-checked what was obviously wrong and fact-checking Trump is like shooting fish in a barrel, but I'm sure the RW media can find several instances where Harris probably should have been corrected or a statement given more context.

In any event, she's more than proven that she can lead and is a far better candidate than Trump. In a country with its head screwed on straight, this would be a laugher of an election, but... here we are.

[albionmoonlight]

I thought that it was a mistake for Biden to decide to stop competing for the nomination.

I thought that if he did choose to stop competing that the Dems would have a shit-show blitz primary that would end up pissing off everyone and leave the "winner" so damaged that they'd lose the general in a landslide.

I was wrong on both points.

[stevew]

Leroy Bickerstaff thought Trump was great in the debate.

[albionmoonlight]

FWIW, my dog is older and I can't imagine that appetizing, so I think I'll risk it and vote straight ticket GOP.

[cartman]

DJT has dropped over $3/share since the opening bell. And in the PredictIt markets Harris opened up a wide gap last night

[albionmoonlight]

I didn't watch the debate, so I just realized that she managed to get him to go on the dog rant when he was asked a softball question about the border. The moderator gave him a chance to explain his opposition to the bi-partisan bill (which is an answer his handlers had to have prepped for him). But she chose that moment to suggest he was boring, and that was it.

[sovereignstar v2]

Hide your cats, hide your dogs -- Antoine Dodson

[JPhillips]

I know everyone is assuming he won't debate again, but doesn't he have to? How else will he turn things around given that there is less than two months before the election and lots of early voting starting soon?

[Vegas Vic]

Vice President Harris did something that none of Trump's debate opponents were ever able to do in 2016, 2020 and 2024. Not Hillary Clinton, not Marco Rubio, not Jeb Bush, not Chris Christie, not Nikki Haley. Nobody.

She punched the bully in the mouth over and over again, goaded him into self-destructive comments, and let him hang himself. It was a masterpiece of manipulation, the likes of which I've never seen anyone else do to Trump.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I didn't watch the debate, so I just realized that she managed to get him to go on the dog rant when he was asked a softball question about the border. The moderator gave him a chance to explain his opposition to the bi-partisan bill (which is an answer his handlers had to have prepped for him). But she chose that moment to suggest he was boring, and that was it.

Yeah, I'm reading some analysis and she did that over and over. On fracking, she slipped in that he was given his money and declared backruptcy and he took the bait, barely mentioning her fracking flip-flop but defending how great a businessman he is.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by stevew

Leroy Bickerstaff thought Trump was great in the debate.

DeShaun Watson and Trump apparently shared the same masseuse at once I guess.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What is it you think Democrats will do to restore reproductive rights? They have had control of the executive and legislative branch many times and done nothing.

And why do you think what they would do justifies supporting genocide?

Nice try on trying to make this about supporting genocide.

Maybe if the D's that either "protest voted", left the line blank, or simply didn't vote in 2016 because, Bernie got screwed and Hillary was going to win anyway, had voted we still have Roe. Restoration wouldn't be needed. That's the risk one take with a protest vote. Sure, one could say Trump wasn't a known quantity and the assumption their protest vote wouldn't make a difference was the norm in 2016. But in 2024?

Feel free to come back with the tired old "Hillary was a terrible candidate" response, but do keep in mind she won the popular vote. Maybe the lesser of two evils, but would never have done the damage that Trump did.

From your posts it seems you think both parties are the same so, in your view, it doesn't matter. I'm only suggesting the woman, minorities, LGBTQ, that liberals care so much about may have a harder time because of protest voters no matter how justified they feel. Maybe that pregnant woman being forced to carry a fetus with no chance of survival to term, or the one who's life is in danger because a doctor can't perform a procedure to save her without risking jail etc. etc. etc. might think more about a protest vote than you do and how it affected her life?

At the end of the day the protest vote isn't changing the policy of either candidate in 2016 or 2024. However in 2024 it could have a big affect on who's going to be President and how the people that liberals care about are treated. Before Maga and the extreme right taking hold a protest vote wasn't really going to make a difference. It's a different world now, but yeah protest all you want, it's your right. But please don't be naive enough to think there won't be consequences that will do more to hurt liberal causes then help them if Harris doesn't win.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I had a much better time catching up on a couple of episodes of Top Chef Wisconsin last night. Nothing that was said or done was going to change my vote, and I detest the sound of Trump's voice as if he was Fran Drescher in The Nanny, so there was no way in hell I was watching. But, I'm glad she did well and he was himself. Although that's unfortunately worked out pretty well for him in the past.

From what I'm reading this morning, the GOP/right-wingers are falling all over themselves claiming moderator bias. I don't know because I didn't watch, but I'm sure Harris made a couple of comments that push the boundaries of truth, or lacked context, etc. I wish the moderators had a plan to call out a couple of those so they had a counter for that. The simple answer is we fact-checked what was obviously wrong and fact-checking Trump is like shooting fish in a barrel, but I'm sure the RW media can find several instances where Harris probably should have been corrected or a statement given more context.

In any event, she's more than proven that she can lead and is a far better candidate than Trump. In a country with its head screwed on straight, this would be a laugher of an election, but... here we are.

Completely disagree. They didn't normalize trump which is good. They didn't fact check either on any comment within the realm of reality but callling him for talking aboit dems killing babies and eating pets needs to happen.

If it wasnt that his supporters would have found something else

[albionmoonlight]

THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS pic.twitter.com/lQqMW5l8pT

— Tarquin ���� (@Tarquin_Helmet) September 11, 2024

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Vice President Harris did something that none of Trump's debate opponents were ever able to do in 2016, 2020 and 2024. Not Hillary Clinton, not Marco Rubio, not Jeb Bush, not Chris Christie, not Nikki Haley. Nobody.

She punched the bully in the mouth over and over again, goaded him into self-destructive comments, and let him hang himself. It was a masterpiece of manipulation, the likes of which I've never seen anyone else do to Trump.

This. It was fun to look at her face while Trump was responding. She appeared to be loving every word he was saying.

[Atocep]

The most glaring thing for me last night was that this isn't the same Trump that ran in 2016 and 2020. There was a lot of showmanship between the lies and everything in the past. Now he's just old and angry. He looks like a man running because he feels he has to rather than a man running because he wants to be president. He had a couple of prepared moments that fell flat because he was just so unhinged throughout the debate (trying to steal the "I'm speaking" bit from the Harris/Pence debate and "I took a bullet to the head").

Props to the Kamala debate prep team. She looked well prepared, polished, and is the first person that we've seen really attack Trump and get him on his heels rather than allow it to become a Donald Trump show.

Fox News sounded defeated after the debate. It was like an emperor has no clothes moment for them, and I'm sure a lot of people. My wife is in AZ right now and was at the Dback/Rangers game during the debate so she wasn't watching or following. I mentioned last night her step dad texted her that Trump lost the election because he was so bad last night. My wife and I briefly spoke after the game and I tried to put into perspective how bad it was and she just said "if (Stepdad's name) said Trump lost I can just imagine how bad it had to be".

We still have a little less than 2 months before election day but early voting ballots should be going out soon. I'm sure we're going to see the Trump campaign and the right wing news machine get on the same page for excuses for last night and try to at least keep the base energized. We still have a relatively long way to go until November 5th and if this was anyone other than Trump it would be over, but you can't count him out because he's a 47% candidate with a 45% floor.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Hide your cats, hide your dogs -- Antoine Dodson

The Alf memes coming today are amazing. So is using the clip from ET where he's dressed as a woman for illegal aliens getting gender change surgeries.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Sweed

This. It was fun to look at her face while Trump was responding. She appeared to be loving every word he was saying.

I was watching her more than him and you could tell she knew she had him before he knew. It was amazing. That being said I’m still not sure it changes much.

[Lathum]

So what’s her strategy now? Do a round of interviews and go for the KO or try and ride this momentum to a win?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So what’s her strategy now? Do a round of interviews and go for the KO or try and ride this momentum to a win?

Ads, ads, and more ads using his own words. Continue with rallies as it does help build excitement. Now that voters have been more introduced to Kamala it's a good time to start hitting the interview circuit. She doesn't have to change much at this point.

Trump is backed into a corner and rather than do damage control he's going to attack everything. It's how he operates. He has to work to get his base energized because he lost a significant amount of excitement and engagement last night. His base is easy to get back on track but I'm not sure what he does to get independent and undecideds back.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I was watching her more than him and you could tell she knew she had him before he knew. It was amazing. That being said I’m still not sure it changes much.

I think I posted elsewhere, but in case I didn't.. I will believe Harris is the winner when the announcement is officially made and not before.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I think I posted elsewhere, but in case I didn't.. I will believe Harris is the winner when the announcement is officially made and not before.

I don't mean she knew she won the election, I mean she knew he fell for her traps before he knew he was being trapped.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I think I posted elsewhere, but in case I didn't.. I will believe Harris is the winner when the announcement is officially made and not before.

Thats 100% for sure. As someone said, Trump has a low floor and as like Rainmaker illustrates, theres still lots of voters who secretly kind of want Trump to win to teach the dems a lesson for not lining up completely on their own beliefs.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, I'm reading some analysis and she did that over and over. On fracking, she slipped in that he was given his money and declared backruptcy and he took the bait, barely mentioning her fracking flip-flop but defending how great a businessman he is.

You could tell that one really got under his skin...

[GrantDawg]

The Harris campaign just pinned a post that said "Our new ad just dropped" and it is the whole unedited debate.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

DJT has dropped over $3/share since the opening bell. And in the PredictIt markets Harris opened up a wide gap last night

The PredictIt markets flipped right after he yelled the thing about dogs.

[Thomkal]

Apparently at the 9/11 memorial today, trump was smiling and winking at photographers and bystanders while the rest of the crowd were having a moment of silence.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Apparently at the 9/11 memorial today, trump was smiling and winking at photographers and bystanders while the rest of the crowd were having a moment of silence.

This is the man that confused 7/11 for 9/11 at one of his rallies.

[Ksyrup]

Looking for the eclipse, I imagine.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Nice try on trying to make this about supporting genocide.

Maybe if the D's that either "protest voted", left the line blank, or simply didn't vote in 2016 because, Bernie got screwed and Hillary was going to win anyway, had voted we still have Roe. Restoration wouldn't be needed. That's the risk one take with a protest vote. Sure, one could say Trump wasn't a known quantity and the assumption their protest vote wouldn't make a difference was the norm in 2016. But in 2024?

Feel free to come back with the tired old "Hillary was a terrible candidate" response, but do keep in mind she won the popular vote. Maybe the lesser of two evils, but would never have done the damage that Trump did.

From your posts it seems you think both parties are the same so, in your view, it doesn't matter. I'm only suggesting the woman, minorities, LGBTQ, that liberals care so much about may have a harder time because of protest voters no matter how justified they feel. Maybe that pregnant woman being forced to carry a fetus with no chance of survival to term, or the one who's life is in danger because a doctor can't perform a procedure to save her without risking jail etc. etc. etc. might think more about a protest vote than you do and how it affected her life?

At the end of the day the protest vote isn't changing the policy of either candidate in 2016 or 2024. However in 2024 it could have a big affect on who's going to be President and how the people that liberals care about are treated. Before Maga and the extreme right taking hold a protest vote wasn't really going to make a difference. It's a different world now, but yeah protest all you want, it's your right. But please don't be naive enough to think there won't be consequences that will do more to hurt liberal causes then help them if Harris doesn't win.

Democrats controlled the Presidency, House, and Senate for the first 2 years of the Biden administration. They controlled it for the first 2 years of the Obama administration. There was no effort to codify Roe. And even after it was overturned, there was no effort to provide more abortion access. It's just empty rhetoric. They should absolutely run on it since they don't have anything else, but it's just a carrot on a stick.

Better judges would be great. But I personally can't overlook genocide. Many can because they don't view the people being killed as people. But you can't expect everyone to have that same lack of empathy. Especially young people who have better access to the videos coming out of the region.

The "lesser of two evils" strategy isn't working. It's only shifted the Democrats to the right. They're now bragging about a Dick Cheney endorsement (a far worse human being than Trump) and building the border wall. We're 8 years out from Mayor Pete talking about Haitians eating cats during a town hall. At some point it's on the candidates to earn your vote and not continue to support unpopular policies.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So I didn't watch live, did the moderators fact check Harris too? on what?

No they didn't. And in fairness, they didn't really fact check Trump either outside of the few outrageous things he said. So Kamala got away with a few lies and Trump got away with like 400 lies. And I don't blame the moderators on that because fact-checking him would have taken up most of the debate.