Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

They need a new, young face badly with some credibility. Sheamus seems like the best prospect at the moment and I understand why they went with him.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Meltzer alluded to the idea of Laurinitus winning the Rumble on his audio show. They did not say it word for word, but said it was a terrible idea that fit in with the story.

I'm not sure where the idea if Sheamus winning fits in. I guess they could go 3 way on Smackdown with Orton, Bryan and Sheamus, or even 4 way with Henry in there, but I don't like it.

ok. Ignore everything I said. Meltzer clarified that the terrible idea was Cena winning the Rumble, and then having to give up the title shot to face the Rock, thus making the Rumble meaningless.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They need a new, young face badly with some credibility. Sheamus seems like the best prospect at the moment and I understand why they went with him.

Is CM Punk already stale? That happened faster than I thought if we're already looking for the next guy.

I still can't believe they put the belts on, and book both shows around two indy guys. It's amazing how fast people have kind of just gotten used to that idea. 3-4 years ago, this would have just been considered fantasy booking that would never really happen.

The WWE thought they could improve the product and have things be more exciting by responding to all the traditional criticisms, "Vince only pushes guys he made, Vince only pushes roided up hosses, etc". But I think those criticisms always missed the mark, and the WWE's response has missed the mark. If they can push two ROH stars to the top of the card and people still think they need "new stars", than I think we can just know for sure that people will ALWAYS say they need "new stars" no matter what. (People clamored for Cena to get a push in 2002-2003, he did, the cycle just repeats) I think there's other places they can improve their product and they should stop being obsessed with having 4 brand new guys win the world title and main event PPVs every year. I'd rather they focus on having more unpredictable storylines and better promos top to bottom. A quality TV show doesn't need brand new stars every year. Tony Soprano was interesting for the entire run of the Sopranos because it was well written, they didn't need to push a new guy ahead of him every year. I wonder if they've decided to listen TOO much to that particular group of cynical internet fans (who they'll never be able to please - those fans will just up the bar and now be pissed off if they don't do Punk v. Bryan in a 90 minute iron man match to unify the titles at Mania, and then if the WWE DID that, they'd complain that they didn't give those guys enough time).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Is CM Punk already stale? That happened faster than I thought if we're already looking for the next guy.

IIRC, the TV ratings have not been kind to segments with Punk since he became "the guy" and the company has been reportedly/rumored to be considering de-pushing him for at least the past month or so.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

IIRC, the TV ratings have not been kind to segments with Punk since he became "the guy" and the company has been reportedly/rumored to be considering de-pushing him for at least the past month or so.

Ya, he's kind of like a quality TV show that doesn't have the ratings yet but the network is going to give a little time anyway. He seems to sell merchandise and pop live crowds, it's hard to see who might do better in that spot. Though, how can they not be tempted to go back to booking the show around Cena when his segments do so much better? They're basically the same age, it's not a pushing the youth for the future situation.

On the other hand, I've also heard that Smackdown ratings have been comparably strong, and they're giving Daniel Bryan credit for that. I think his reign has already been longer than they planned on it being.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Is CM Punk already stale? That happened faster than I thought if we're already looking for the next guy.

No, I don't think he's gotten stale. I just think they are in need of building up some main eventers. Over the last few years they've lost HBK, Undertaker, HHH, Edge, Batista, and Jeff Hardy. That's a lot of talent at the top of the roster. They have to fill that in with more than just CM Punk. So they're pushing guys like Ziggler, Bryan, Barrett, and Sheamus.

I think it was a smart move to have him win it. It gives Smackdown another top babyface and I'd suspect we see a long run for Sheamus next year to truly cement himself as a main eventer.

It's not about creating "the next guy". Cena and Orton are both young still. It's about building up the top half of the roster so that when one of those two goes down or needs a fresh storyline, they don't tumble.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

IIRC, the TV ratings have not been kind to segments with Punk since he became "the guy" and the company has been reportedly/rumored to be considering de-pushing him for at least the past month or so.

Yeah, his storyline has been pretty horrible for a few months now. They never were able to really build on the buzz from the Summer. I wouldn't be surprised if he lost the belt at WM. But I also don't know how much ratings will matter. Seems their business is more centered around merchandise these days instead of a couple tenths of a point in the ratings.

[Mota]

I think that just because the WWE gives someone a title, it doesn't mean they're pushing him. Most wrestlers' first title reigns have been a complete disaster in the past 2-3 years.

In the case of Daniel Bryan in the beginning they made sure we all knew that he didn't really deserve the title and he just fluked into it. I think he's done such a good job with the role he was given that he's actually making it work, and just as Molson said, it probably extended his title reign. I'm really thinking a Bryan / Sheamus match scould be awesome with some good development.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

I still can't believe they put the belts on, and book both shows around two indy guys. It's amazing how fast people have kind of just gotten used to that idea. 3-4 years ago, this would have just been considered fantasy booking that would never really happen.

Isn't it basically the same as Rey Mysterio / Chris Benoit from several years back? They weren't indie guys, but they were little guys that the WWE historically never pushed.

I think the WWE is basically forced to try new stuff given the amount of wrestlers that have left in the past few years, and the amount of injuries that are currently happening.

Now it's up to guys like Bryan / Sheamus / Ziggler to prove to McMahon that they deserve these spots, so when the other guys come back they will be able to keep their spots.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mota

Isn't it basically the same as Rey Mysterio / Chris Benoit from several years back? They weren't indie guys, but they were little guys that the WWE historically never pushed.

It's definitely somewhat like that, but Benoit and Mysterio were big stars in WCW. And even ECW was bigger than any indy promotion now. WWE pushed them further, but even that took 5-6 years for both guys to reach the top. (though it was definitely surprising for Benoit and Mysterio to reach the top of WWE).

Maybe it'd be like pushing Reckless Youth and Mike Quackenbush on top of the company in 1999. - those are two guys I've never seen actually seen wrestle, but I remember them as the big indy guys in the mid-late 90s, like Danielson/Punk/and Samoa Joe were in the middle of the last decade. But that's not a perfect comparison either, because maybe ROH was really closer to ECW as far as being a feeder company to the WWE than I'm giving them credit for. I just never expected the WWE to be interested in the ROH guys, but maybe I should have, since they did fall in love with all the ECW guys that were worth anything.

And I thought if any ROH guy would make it big in the WWE, it'd be Samoa Joe, but he's apparently turned them down more than once. I wonder if he regrets that now, seeing the success of Byan and Punk, and seeing that now he's pretty much fat and useless.

Edit: Just as a sidenote, I realized fairly recently that all those guys had jobber runs in the WWE, it's kind of fun to see CM Punk v. Val Venis, Bryan Danielson v. John Cena, and Samoa Joe v. Essa Rios from Heat/Velocity/other B-shows 7 or 8 years ago, they're all on youtube.

[Mota]

One thing that I'd like to see from the WWE is a sense of progression.

Right now they take new guys, overpush them, see that they don't work and then shove them into the lower or midcard after having been WWE Champion. It just doesn't make any sense, and the fans seem to not take to new guys because the feeling is that these guys are only temporarily successful.

Take 75% of your guys and start them in the lower card. Then make them develop a finisher or some new moves that help them out and they progress to the next level. Get the fans invested in the wrestlers as they develop, and when they finally made it to the top, they're "our" wrestlers that we've been watching develop over 1-2 years. I used to see it all the time in the "olden days" and it was cool.

There's always the top 25% though that you want to protect right from the start and not hand them too many losses, but that's reserved for the guarantees, like a Brock Lesnar or Rock who you know are going to be future stars. I'm talking giving the progression push to guys like a Drew McIntyre or Sheamus, both of whom were damaged by being pushed directly to the top without getting the required experience. It's been a long road for Sheamus but they are trying to rebuild him now. I think McIntyre is done for, even though today he is probably good enough to justify the "chosen one" gimmick that he was given when he first started but wasn't good enough to sustain it.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

But that's not a perfect comparison either, because maybe ROH was really closer to ECW as far as being a feeder company to the WWE than I'm giving them credit for. I just never expected the WWE to be interested in the ROH guys, but maybe I should have, since they did fall in love with all the ECW guys that were worth anything.

Post-ECW and hardcore era, ROH was the place where all the top indy talent went. So it's not really surprising to see so many guys on the WWE / TNA roster. 2004-2006 ROH is really on par with any wrestling company out there right now. Just look at the list of guys that were in ROH in that era...

TNA:
AJ Styles
Christopher Daniels
Samoa Joe
Austin Aries
Desmond Wolfe (Nigel McGuinness, although a health issue derailed that push he was getting)

WWE:
CM Punk
Evan Bourne (Matt Sydal)
Daniel Bryan (Bryan Danielson)
Seth Rollins (Tyler Black)
Antonio Cesaro (Claudio Castagnoli)
Hopefully Chris Hero (verbal agreement but needs to pass a physical --- but is big, good wrestler and a great talker)

Unfortunately there's a lot less indy talent out there due to the popularity of MMA, so today's ROH roster pales in comparison to the glory days. They've been picked clean, and haven't developed new guys fast enough to replace them. The new guys are more role-players rather than future stars. They're also competing against Dragon Gate USA / Evolve for the talent, in most cases it's not shared. I'd say that DGUSA probably has the strongest future roster right now to be honest and I don't even watch it that much. Just watch, Dean Ambrose is already one of the leading guys in FCW and touring on the Smackdown house shows, and I'm betting that Johnny Gargano and Ricochet will also be signed up in the next year or so as they are really good.

Sorry, long post but I have to give that era of ROH props for developing so many great guys.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mota

One thing that I'd like to see from the WWE is a sense of progression.

Right now they take new guys, overpush them, see that they don't work and then shove them into the lower or midcard after having been WWE Champion. It just doesn't make any sense, and the fans seem to not take to new guys because the feeling is that these guys are only temporarily successful.

Take 75% of your guys and start them in the lower card. Then make them develop a finisher or some new moves that help them out and they progress to the next level. Get the fans invested in the wrestlers as they develop, and when they finally made it to the top, they're "our" wrestlers that we've been watching develop over 1-2 years. I used to see it all the time in the "olden days" and it was cool.

There's always the top 25% though that you want to protect right from the start and not hand them too many losses, but that's reserved for the guarantees, like a Brock Lesnar or Rock who you know are going to be future stars. I'm talking giving the progression push to guys like a Drew McIntyre or Sheamus, both of whom were damaged by being pushed directly to the top without getting the required experience. It's been a long road for Sheamus but they are trying to rebuild him now. I think McIntyre is done for, even though today he is probably good enough to justify the "chosen one" gimmick that he was given when he first started but wasn't good enough to sustain it.

I totally agree with that, but if you look back in this thread, or elsewhere on the internet, almost everybody wanted the same thing back when these sudden pushes started - Orton and Cena out of the main event scene and every cool heel midcarder getting pushed to the moon. Not just world titles, mind you, but they wanted the actual shows built around guys that were brand new. Even now, but especially then, any time Cena or Orton won a match, any match, or were in a PPV main event, any PPV main event, the whining would explode. So they finally change direction on that, and everyone hates that too. Back then, the pushes to guys like Sheamus and Swagger and Hardy, and Miz, and the first Punk world title push and all the others were considered "not enough" because even though they had the titles, Orton and Cena were still in the main event scene so people were pissed. But NOW, the same fans consider those guys to have been OVERPUSHED back then (and I suppose the implication is that all 5 of those guys, and probably a few more I'm leaving out, should have somehow, together, all maintained #1 or #2 guy type-pushes).

I wish I could, in some fictional universe, watch the RAW, and the WWE storylines play out in a way that would make that cynical group of IWC fans like the product. I actually don't think it's possible. I think that if such a theoretical, alternative universe existed, it would be so incorrect at its core that it might swallow the universe whole.

People talk so fondly about the 80s when so much of it is garbage, especially by today's standards. Have you ever watched a 1986 WWF TV show? You never had a match last more than 2-3 minutes, and 75% of the matches were guys kind of standing around or taking a breather before their next move. Or take the NWA in the 80s - everybody loved the Wargames match, they say that's what's missing from today, those long feuds. Almost all of those matches ended with JJ Dillon submitting for the four horseman so none of the real wrestlers had to. Yes, in a match where one submission is all you need, the four horseman always brought JJ Dillon. Just one example of many. If the WWE booked main events like that today people wouldn't just dislike it, they'd get ANGRY and actually take it personally.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mota

Post-ECW and hardcore era, ROH was the place where all the top indy talent went. So it's not really surprising to see so many guys on the WWE / TNA roster. 2004-2006 ROH is really on par with any wrestling company out there right now. Just look at the list of guys that were in ROH in that era...

It's interesting how the WWE took on the identify of both promotions to an extent. They took a lot from ECW obviously, both talent and show style. I didn't think they'd take anything from ROH, but they have. We have two smallish "workers" on top, and they're pretty much running 2004-2006 ROH storylines, except in reverse (Daniel Bryan is the "I'm better than you" Vegan, and Punk is the "best wrestler in the world".) The WWE just cleans them up, ads production values, and sanitizes them for the masses. You could look at that as adapting to the available talent and cultural influences of what's going on in the smaller promotions, or more likely, if you're on the internet, they're "stealing it", "watering it down", "ruining the smaller companies", "wasting great talent", etc....or even sometimes still "Vince only pushes roided up hosses, Vince only pushes talent he created, Vince hates wrestling, blah blah.)

[Mota]

Some of those stories are so great, it's nice to see them with production values. The CM Punk leaving story was pretty similar to him leaving ROH to go to WWE, only there he actually did leave.
The slow turn to heel for Daniel Bryan is also a story that was told after he first won the ROH Title.
Gabe Sapolski was the booker in ROH back then and doesn't seem to have a problem with it at all, he pointed it out on Twitter a few weeks back.

If those are two of the best storylines in the WWE in the past year, maybe they should be calling up Gabe and giving him a job as a writer.

The WWE does need to adapt. There are less prospects to pick from out there, and the TNA talent is too damaged in many cases to bring over. The prospects out there are generally smaller, and that's okay because UFC has proven that badasses come in all sizes. You don't need to be 280 lbs. to look like you can kick some butt.

[Mota]

Good day at work today... I'm going to a Wal-Mart manager's vendor show working my company's booth, and while I'm there, I got to meet Natalya, Beth Phoenix and Trish Stratus who were all there on behalf of various Wal-Mart vendors. They were all super nice, I talked with Trish for about 5 minutes and it was just like talking to someone you've known for years.

My son came home after school to find 3 autographs to his name, I definitely scored some good dad points for that one!

[bulletsponge]

trish is seriously smokin hot. just dont get caught calling out her name next time your "intimate" with the Mrs

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

trish is seriously smokin hot. just dont get caught calling out her name next time your "intimate" with the Mrs

And don't refer to getting some Stratusfaction afterwards either.

[RainMaker]

I saw her in a restaurant many years ago here in Chicago. The TV does not do her justice. She has an absolutely incredible body and a really pretty face. One of the 5 most beautiful women I've ever seen in-person in my entire life.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rumors that Russo is out at TNA (after he was not backstage for tonight's PPV). Most likely related to the lackluster ratings generated by the shows they taped in the U.K.

That'd be good news under most circumstances but since it appears to only mean more control goes back to Bischoff, this really doesn't seem like much to be excited about.

[molson]

TNA's Jesse Sorensen is still in intensive care after this move last night at their PPV. Latest word is he still no movement in his legs, and people are concerned with the general lack of further updates and that Karen Jarrett tweeted something about how she wasn't going to say anything about his condition due to "privacy" (which seems to me to be the same as saying something, but I don't think she's all there).

[Mota]

From the Observer:

TNA reported that Jesse Sorensen sustained a fractured C-1 vertebrae (upper neck) and spinal cord edema. He is slowly regaining movement in his arms and legs.

Dixie Carter wrote that after TNA speaks with his neurosurgeon they will report more details. She also wrote that they want to thank people for their thoughts and prayers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jim Cornette issued the following tweet when he found out Vince Russo was fired by TNA: “Have I died?!?!?!”

edit to add: – Kurt Angle tweeted the following today: I Visited Jesse Sorenson.He Is Moving His Arms and Legs.Drs’ say 1 Year recovery. I Say 4 Months.Jesse Is a Hero and Fighter. “I’ll Be Back”

[Suicane75]

Russo was not fired. He quit. Dixie was trying very hard to get him to change his mind which just goes to show you that it's the same old, same old. She may be the single dumbest human being on the planet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

She may be the single dumbest human being on the planet.

It is not beyond imagination that she fired him AND then tried to get him to come back.

We are, after all, talking about quite possibly the dumbest person ever associated with professional wrestling past or present.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Russo was not fired. He quit. Dixie was trying very hard to get him to change his mind which just goes to show you that it's the same old, same old. She may be the single dumbest human being on the planet.

The idea of a wrestling executive desperately trying to get Vince Russo to come back and work for them sounds like a sick Vince Russo delusion. The fact that it actually happened is pretty funny. I imagine her getting in her car and chasing him around town, leaving flowers and chocolates at his door, and Russo locking himself in the bathroom having a bubble bath. Kind of like in Waiting for Guffman.

[Maple Leafs]

Apparently they're releasing an updated version of the old Wrestlefest arcade game as an iphone app this week.

As you were.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Apparently they're releasing an updated version of the old Wrestlefest arcade game as an iphone app this week.

As you were.

Nice

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Nice

Nice? The birth of a first child is "nice". This is the return of Wrestlefest!

Seriously, I hope it doesn't suck.

[DeToxRox]

TMZ has a story about singer Chris Brown making nasty comments about CM Punk on Twitter. Punk initially wrote that he wanted to lay out Brown and have him "fight somebody that can defend themselves," an obvious reference to Brown's past with singer Rihanna. Brown wrote back that Punk was on steroids (which is hilarious when you think about it) writing: "Not to mention the roids hes on has made it utterly impossible for him pleasure a women."

[Flasch186]

Well Chris Brown is the one who actually really tried to hurt the other person

[SirFozzie]

Well.. write wade Barrett out of any Wm plans.. maybe ziggler and kofi too. What a train wreck

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well.. write wade Barrett out of any Wm plans.. maybe ziggler and kofi too. What a train wreck

Ziggler worked the dark match after Raw.

[SegRat]

Wrestlefest is in the app store.

[molson]

Dislocated elbow for Barrett, everyone else was fine.

The Orton concussion thing could end up being really bad too, I'm pretty sure he's had more than 3 of them at this point. The WWE has been lucky not to really have a serious concussion situation since Nowitzki's career ended and since the other sports have stepped up concussion awareness. It looks like they're being careful with him which could result in him being in limbo for a while.

Big Show is racking up quite the damage toll.

[RainMaker]

I can't believe they had Santino thrown out later on right by where Barrett was being treated. Came awfully close to landing on that arm. Knew it was bad when he swore right after and they had to mute it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I can't believe they had Santino thrown out later on right by where Barrett was being treated. Came awfully close to landing on that arm. Knew it was bad when he swore right after and they had to mute it.

The whole thing was surreal. Throwing a guy almost onto EMTs treating a dislocated arm and possible neck injury is something you do on a video game when you're screwing around. Then with all the carnage in front of him, CM Punk on commentary delivers the gem, "this has no bearing on anything but one of the EMTs looks like Rock and Roll Buck Zumoff."

[RainMaker]

I also don't get why they are doing spots like that on Raw near the announcers table. Why not do it on the other side where they have room for error? It just seems unnecessarily dangerous, especially 6 weeks from Wrestlemania.

Also, what's the WWE stance on bullying? They run a PSA every week but had their biggest star get the arena to slut-shame one of the divas. Which is it?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also, what's the WWE stance on bullying? They run a PSA every week but had their biggest star get the arena to slut-shame one of the divas. Which is it?

+1

[Matthean]

WWE's treatment of women over the years was part of the reason I stopped watching.

[bulletsponge]

Cena has always been a bully (by the wwe anti-bullying standards). he always insults and calls people names in his promos. wrestling is basically about bullying and beating up bullys. ironically Cena has consistantly been the biggest "bully" in the wwe for years. he insults everyone and knows he can beat them up, the very definition of a bully. its his character

the wwe anti-bully campaign is sheer shameless pandering for pr

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

the wwe anti-bully campaign is sheer shameless pandering for pr

Not exactly unique to them however

[dave731]

Not sure if you guys would be interested or not but I need a few more for something I am working on at Utopia (ncaastrategies.com). It is essentially an e-fed that I am putting together to run some simming based on stats given. The sign up form is as follows...If I get enough interest here it could be ran similar to how Smackdown vs. Raw is done where the two promos have their own shows and factions.

Maximum total points for Strength, Speed, Vitality, and Charisma is 45. There will be milestones that allow for point boosts along the way and I will have those posted here as well. The move types can be as follows: random, all around, big man, chair specialist, luchadore, ladder specialist, martial artist, submission expert, suplex master, table specialist, or diva. This is my first time using this software but I did something very similar to this years ago with Smackdown vs. Raw. The benefit with this program is that it generates all commentary for events making life easy for a simmer. It also keeps full track of records and allows for the creation of various titles and match types.

Name:
Hometown:
Face/Heel/Neutral:
Stable (if any):
Ring Intro (theme music):
Weight:
Height:
Move types:
Strength(0-20):
Speed(0-20):
Vitality(0-20):
Charisma(0-20):

[Suicane75]

It's not even the on screen "wrestling angles", that there is bullying involved in that is inherent, it's always been and always will be part of the act. It's the stuff like saddling Mickie James with a fat gimmick because she gained 10 pounds and then firing her. Like Vince mocking Randy Orton for not being big enough when he returned from shoulder surgery. Like the hundreds of backstage incidents of hazing and the company mantra to fuck with and jerk people around incessantly. If you have an ounce of knowledge of how the company works, from Vince on down, the anti-bullying campaign is just preposterous absurdity.

[molson]

Isn't pro wrestling pretend bullying?

I don't know who else supports the anti-bullying thing but I bet there's some actors in there who have played bullies. Of course it's for pr, that's fine, but they do reach the demo that's important to those groups, and they do show up and do speeches and whatnot. I think its a worthy enough cause and I don't think it requires the WWE to attempt to somehow remove all bullying from their programming. Obviously the organizations are fine with the arrangement too.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

It's not even the on screen "wrestling angles", that there is bullying involved in that is inherent, it's always been and always will be part of the act. It's the stuff like saddling Mickie James with a fat gimmick because she gained 10 pounds and then firing her. Like Vince mocking Randy Orton for not being big enough when he returned from shoulder surgery. Like the hundreds of backstage incidents of hazing and the company mantra to fuck with and jerk people around incessantly. If you have an ounce of knowledge of how the company works, from Vince on down, the anti-bullying campaign is just preposterous absurdity.

Mickie James was a face and laycool were heels. Vince's character is an asshole, has been for years. I'd bet backstage wrestler-on-wrestler hazing is at an all time low, just based on the attitudes of the younger guys compared to how things were in the 70s and 80s. I don't know about any "company mantra to fuck with and jerk people around incessantly", but I wouldn't count a guy getting depushed as "bullying" if that's what you mean. And I don't buy most the stuff people come up with like, "Eugene was giving a retarded gimmick to punish him for something". Most of those things are inferences and educated guesses used to retaliate against booking they don't like. There's some examples reported by more reputable sources, but I wouldn't say that they're all that much different than any wrestling company ever. Except probably a little less bullying, and probably somewhat less drug use (just anecdotally based on what the older guys say about the younger guys)

But really, who cares what charitable organizations the WWE wants to get involved with where both the WWE and the charity are willing participants and they make their own arrangements and concessions based on their own discussions? Why do people get so upset about this stuff? If they book Cena to bully a woman but an organization wants Sheamus to come talk to kids about bullying, and maybe reconcile their product and its fictional content with a real-life message, what's the problem?

[Suicane75]

I'm not upset about it all, I just find it very humorous.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm not upset about it all, I just find it very humorous.

Pro wrestling without any bullying would be more humorous. Or really, just boring. Even Vince Russo's christian wrestling company had "evil" heels. But the faces usually prevailed, I imagine. I guess I would find it off-putting if the WWE really glorified bullying, like if the faces picked on weak heels who didn't do anything to deserve it and couldn't protect themselves, all to huge ovations, but they really don't do that. They book pretty traditionally, but with glossier production values and worse promos.

[Mota]

There's also a huge difference between a bully character, and the real bullying that happens in the WWE.

Look at Jim Ross. This guy is humiliated in his hometown all the time. They do all kinds of stuff to him live without warning. The last time they fired him, he wasn't even aware it was going to happen.

That's what really offends me. Same with the treatment of Vickie Guerrero, Jerry Lawler was teasing her about her weight well after she had lost a ton of weight and probably was smaller than Lawler. But he kept on pushing the button over and over again.

The fact that monster heel X is a bully is just part of the storyline, and hopefully he gets it in the end. That's what we pay to see.

[Suicane75]

Yeah, I'm not talking about the angles. I'm talking about the real life stuff.