POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by stevew

Does Trump golf before or after church on Sunday

I'm sure whoever he plays with on Sunday talk about God given that's his church now apparently

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

It was definitely reported at one point yesterday as being "two holes away," but everything I've heard today indicates the gun was spotted while clearing the hole immediately ahead of Trump. But no indication either way that he ever pointed it at Trump, nor even at the Secret Service. (So, yeah, maybe it was just sitting there poking through the fence and he was nearby and not holding it at the time. If so, maybe that's why he's alive...)

If the BBC map is right, he was at the end of the hole behind, but he was still on the other side of a tree line from where the would-be assassin was. It doesn't look likely the the guy was aiming at him at the time. Does the report say what weapons the SS fired at him? I imagine if they were handguns at a distance it would have been a hard target.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Does the report say what weapons the SS fired at him?

"service weapon"

[GrantDawg]

"Rich Lowry let his racist side out on a video interview."

And Megan Kelly just ignored it. She seemed used to people slipping the N-word in conversations.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I thought Trump was two holes away.

Is that a golf reference?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

This really is the strangest of political times, where an assassination attempt is practically just another crazy event to get shoved out of the news half-a-day later, by whatever the next crazy event will be.

That's because a preponderance of the US would be indifferent to delighted if someone succeeded.

I, personally, would take the week off in celebration.

[Atocep]

I watched some of the 2016 debate and it's insane how much Trump has deteriorated. People thought that he sounded bad then, but he was actually able to put coherent thoughts together, stay on topic, and discuss policy with at least a small level of depth.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

If the BBC map is right, he was at the end of the hole behind, but he was still on the other side of a tree line from where the would-be assassin was. It doesn't look likely the the guy was aiming at him at the time. Does the report say what weapons the SS fired at him? I imagine if they were handguns at a distance it would have been a hard target.

Watched the joint FBI/USSS briefing a few minutes ago. A few takeaways with regard to stuff a bit up in the air in this thread:

1. They specified that Routh did not get off a shot.
2. They specified that he did not have any line of sight on Trump.
3. They specified that this was a completely unplanned round of golf, so they didn't have a chance to do any pre-clearing of the course and surrounding area. So, yeah, dude just guessed that maybe Trump was playing golf and sat out there waiting on him. (They also said that he had a bag of food with him.)
4. They did *not* specify if he pointed the gun at USSS, but they did say something along the lines of "the suspect never got close to getting off a round."

Based on a combo of the info, especially #4, I'm guessing he either wasn't holding the gun at all, or perhaps he didn't see the Secret Service agent because he happened to be looking in another direction at the moment the agent would have come into view. Either way, the way it was all stated, it certainly appears that he never had a chance to point the gun at anyone.

[JPhillips]

The mre that comes out the more it sounds like this time the Secret Service did a good job. Hard to do better for an unplanned round of golf.

[Dutch]

They are definitely beating up the USSS again but (warranted or not) it seems more along the lines of, “So nothing has changed from the first assassination attempt”. I think the USSS is doing the best they can, tactically speaking. I also think it’s pretty obvious now that the only other major candidate to potentially run the country will need full USSS support. That would come by way of a strategic level change to the protocols of the USSS. Seems like an easy enough amendment to their current rules that could be changed tomorrow morning and implemented by the end of the week.

[JPhillips]

Overall I think the Secret Service is a trainwreck and I welcome oversight, but in this case they seem to have done a good job. Trump was never in danger and the guy was apprehended. I'm not sure what more can be expected given the circumstances.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

That's because a preponderance of the US would be indifferent to delighted if someone succeeded.

I, personally, would take the week off in celebration.

That's as thoroughly disgusting as it gets. There is nobody for whom that is an appropriate response, full stop.

[thesloppy]

Brian, who insists every hypothetical person's opinion should be respected, does not respect your opinion.

[JPhillips]

Trump has a cunning plan to reduce food prices.

Reduce supply.

"We allow a lot of farm product into our country. We're going have to be a little like other countries. We're not going to allow so much."

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump has a cunning plan to reduce food prices.

Reduce supply.

While also kicking the majority of people picking those crops out of the country.

[Swaggs]

He’s also now promising government funded IVF and to reduce car insurance. He’s just throwing anything and everything against the wall now.

[SirFozzie]

I don't want trump to be assassinated. I want him in jail and destitute. There's a difference

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I don't want trump to be assassinated. I want him in jail and destitute. There's a difference

I just want him gone from our lives, no matter how that happens.

[Lathum]

Trump on energy policy: We have Bagram in Alaska. They say it might be bigger than Saudi Arabia. I got it approved.

(Bagram is an airbase in Afghanistan) pic.twitter.com/AhorJb6Vq2

— Acyn (@Acyn) September 17, 2024

[albionmoonlight]

I've wondered if the Harris campaign should start subtly classifying his misstatements as confusion rather than lies.

Saying Trump lies does not move the needle. That's baked into his support and opposition. And the media response ends up just being some version of "Democrats and GOP debate Trump's assertion that 1+1=3."

But if you say he's confused, then that's a different story. And then his defense has to be that he wasn't confused, he was lying? That's a bit harder to frame in a #bothsides way.

[Edward64]

That’s a great strategy.

I agree that ‘lies’ don’t work much but confused = cognitive decline may work

[Ben E Lou]

I heard or read somewhere in passing in the first 12ish hours after Routh was identified that he had "over 100" citations from local law enforcement, but since that one little tidbit, I hadn't heard anything else about it--just the two big arrests--so I'd moved on to thinking either I'd heard it wrong or it was bad information. However, this interview with a retired GPD officer, published this morning, seems to corroborate at least the spirit of that "over 100," if not the exact number. (You can watch the video without entering an email address. I think you only have to do that to read the article.) It's pretty wild how well known he was to multiple police officers.

Trump assassination plot exposes Ryan Routh's bomb bust, barricade with illegal gun | Fox News

[cartman]

so the US attorney handling the latest assassination attempt is a Haitian immigrant. Can't make this stuff up

[Thomkal]

Yeah so about that police report you provided JD Vance that shows Haitians are eating cats:


x.com

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Brian, who insists every hypothetical person's opinion should be respected, does not respect your opinion.

That's where most people get it twisted. Nobody is beholden to respect anyone's opinion. Certainly everyone is entitled to an opinion, but there's no obligation on anyone's part to respect it.

Some people believe in Flat Earth, 9/11 was an inside job, or immigrants are eating people's pets. Those opinions deserve no respect whatsoever.

And I don't mind if Brian, or anyone, is disgusted by my opinion. That's fine.

Still, ridding this planet of Donald Trump would make it an infinitely better place.

(enjoy this post before the Mods censor me again)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yeah so about that police report you provided JD Vance that shows Haitians are eating cats:


x.com

Doesn't matter, the narrative is out there and there is a huge segment of our population that will never admit they were duped by misinformation so any evidence that shows they were is actually the misinformation. Trump and Vance will double down and never retract because that is the playbook. Maybe someone like Cavuto mentions in passing it was false so FOX can CYA and he will be labeled a RINO by the Charlie Kirks of the world and we will eventually move on. Meanwhile people will question why you would ever vote Harris when she cant explain in depth her policy on giving a 25K tax credit to new home buyers and how it would effect markets and interest rates.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

He’s also now promising government funded IVF and to reduce car insurance. He’s just throwing anything and everything against the wall now.

And there's no reason to stop it. There are popular (yet unfeasible) ideas out there to be embraced harmlessly. If he senses trouble, why stop at this level? Why not a promise to cut income taxes in half for everyone, on day one (the dictator phase, heh)? Just mumble some stuff about a booming economy paying for it, or how tariffs will, or that we will pay for it with a trillion dollar coin, or whatever... nobody holds him to any details so why stop pledging the moon and stars?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

And there's no reason to stop it. There are popular (yet unfeasible) ideas out there to be embraced harmlessly. If he senses trouble, why stop at this level? Why not a promise to cut income taxes in half for everyone, on day one (the dictator phase, heh)? Just mumble some stuff about a booming economy paying for it, or how tariffs will, or that we will pay for it with a trillion dollar coin, or whatever... nobody holds him to any details so why stop pledging the moon and stars?

Mexico is going to pay for it.

[JPhillips]

This is a weird thing to cut and post.

https://t.co/ZCTwZSqZND pic.twitter.com/FH9SRFQeUR

— MELANIA TRUMP (@MELANIATRUMP) September 18, 2024

[thesloppy]

I'm sure many will be bought as some sort of display statement, but will anybody ever read a copy of Melania's book?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm sure many will be bought as some sort of display statement, but will anybody ever read a copy of Melania's book?

Trump was smart and realized most his supporters can't read and instead released a picture book.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, there's an "I buy it for the articles" joke in here somewhere, isn't there.

[Dutch]

Just saw these numbers at the border.

Trump admin: ~2 million CBP encounters
Biden/Harris admin: ~8 million CBP encounters

Trump admin: 11 Terror Watch list encounters at border
Biden/Harris admin: 390 Terror Watch List encounters at border

The first numbers goes far beyond agriculture workers. Many of the those (making up the delta) account for our 400% increase is fentanyl deaths the last few years. Whats that death count at now?

The second set of numbers shows an alarming interest by those who wish to do harm in the USA attempting (hopefully just attempting) to set up shop.

It’s not all doom and gloom, however, both Trump and Harris agree that zero Americans are to be expelled from the country.

[Atocep]

What's interesting is the vast, vast majority of terrorist watch list encounters are happening at the northern border. Who's paying for that wall?

Also, CBP and others have long complained that the terrorist watch list is far too large and often inaccurate. It's grown to over 2 million people. There's no one really auditing names once they're added to check accuracy and remove names of people that are there for simply having a name similar to someone else on the list. So the list just continues to grow over time and, of the estimated 10s of thousands of people that have appealed being on the list, 98% (according to DHS) were false positives.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

It’s not all doom and gloom, however, both Trump and Harris agree that zero Americans are to be expelled from the country.

Not true. Stephen Miller has talked about de-naturalization and why Trump is going to do a lot more of it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

It’s not all doom and gloom, however, both Trump and Harris agree that zero Americans are to be expelled from the country.

Untrue.

They have already said they will get rid of anchor babies and I suspect dreamers will also be fucked.

And please, explain to me what a mass deportation looks like logistically? Never mind the cost associated, how exactly do you determine someone is here illegally without violating their civil liberties?

We already have people in Ohio accusing their neighbors of eating missing cats, can you imagine what will happen when every brown person is a suspected illegal?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Just saw these numbers at the border.

Trump admin: ~2 million CBP encounters
Biden/Harris admin: ~8 million CBP encounters

Trump admin: 11 Terror Watch list encounters at border
Biden/Harris admin: 390 Terror Watch List encounters at border

The obvious conclusion here is that the Biden Administration is far more effective at stopping illegal border crossings than the Trump Administration. Thanks for posting this, Dutch.

[thesloppy]

When I see that big a discrepancy I assume the accounting method has changed

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

When I see that big a discrepancy I assume the accounting method has changed

Encounters at the border were trending up significantly under Trump and then Covid happened. I will say, I think not treating people inhumanely does probably make them more likely to risk or request to come into the country.

The biggest thing we need at the border is significantly more judges to clear the 3 million or so backlog in cases and to clean up the terrorist watch list. It's ridiculous that it's ballooned to over 2 million people and we know a significant number of them shouldn't be on there but the funding and manpower doesn't exist to audit it.

[Atocep]

J.D. Vance offers ‘proof’ of pet-eating, but it’s proven false with 1 phone call - nj.com

Donald Trump’s running mate JD Vance has dug in on his claim Haitians in an Ohio community are abducting and eating pets, even as the state’s GOP governor and other officials insist there is no evidence of such behavior.

But the salacious claim was easily debunked.

“The Vance campaign provided the Wall Street Journal with a police report to prove their claims about cat-eating Haitians in Springfield. The WSJ spoke to the woman who filed it, who said she later found her cat alive and well in her basement. She also apologized to her Haitian neighbors.” Justin Baragona posted to X with a link to a story in The Wall Street Journal.

[Edward64]

No real context if this decision is appropriate or just anti-Trump by the leadership. Has there been other situations where rank-and-file supported a candidate but leadership did not?

Teamsters won’t endorse in presidential race after releasing internal polling showing most members support Trump | CNN Politics

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters declined to endorse a presidential candidate on Wednesday after releasing internal polling that showed a majority of its members supported former President Donald Trump over Vice President Kamala Harris.

It’s the first time in nearly three decades that the union has not endorsed a presidential candidate.

According to an electronic member poll that was initiated after President Joe Biden withdrew from the race, about 60% of members believed the union should endorse Trump while 34% supported Harris. About 6% said they supported another candidate.

Their rationale ...

“Unfortunately, neither major candidate was able to make serious commitments to our union to ensure the interests of working people are always put before Big Business,” Teamsters President Sean O’Brien said in a statement. “We sought commitments from both Trump and Harris not to interfere in critical union campaigns or core Teamsters industries – and to honor our members’ right to strike – but were unable to secure those pledges.”

[Toddzilla]

Never underestimate the ignorance of Americans in voting against their best interests.

[JPhillips]

Vance is right tin saying the insurance markets can be restructured so that healthy adults pay less, but that only works if sick people pay more. Given that most of us get sick at some point before we die, I don't think his plan will be all that popular.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And please, explain to me what a mass deportation looks like logistically? Never mind the cost associated, how exactly do you determine someone is here illegally without violating their civil liberties?

I’m not an expert in this field either, so I don’t know, but if anybody asks me for my paperwork to show citizenship, I’ll happily provide it to do my part to protect the civil liberties of all Americans.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Edward64

No real context if this decision is appropriate or just anti-Trump by the leadership. Has there been other situations where rank-and-file supported a candidate but leadership did not?

Teamsters won’t endorse in presidential race after releasing internal polling showing most members support Trump | CNN Politics


Their rationale ...

Well, there’s Cuba. Seriously though, the decision to not endorse the Democrats and seeing the landslide vote was pretty eye opening. At least Harris is still killing it with abortion.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I’m not an expert in this field either, so I don’t know, but if anybody asks me for my paperwork to show citizenship, I’ll happily provide it to do my part to protect the civil liberties of all Americans.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by Dutch

Well, there’s Cuba. Seriously though, the decision to not endorse the Democrats and seeing the landslide vote was pretty eye opening.

I really don't know. I asked the question if this has happen before. If it has, where Teamsters leadership went against the rank-and-file, then it's not a big deal.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I’m not an expert in this field either, so I don’t know, but if anybody asks me for my paperwork to show citizenship, I’ll happily provide it to do my part to protect the civil liberties of all Americans.

Do you carry proof of citizenship with you at all times? Do you expect mass deportation to have hearings for proof of citizenship?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I’m not an expert in this field either, so I don’t know, but if anybody asks me for my paperwork to show citizenship, I’ll happily provide it to do my part to protect the civil liberties of all Americans.

You realize asking people for their papers is straight up Nazi Germany shit and in total violation of peoples rights?

Your white privilege is staggering, and it may come as news to you, but millions of Americans are latino, black, etc...and have the same rights as you. Those people shouldn't be subject to harassment because of a minority of hateful bigots that at best you support and worst are a part of.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Do you carry proof of citizenship with you at all times? Do you expect mass deportation to have hearings for proof of citizenship?

People who support this have zero expectations of what it will look like because they haven't thought past "brown people bad."

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

People who support this have zero expectations of what it will look like because they haven't thought past "brown people bad."

I mean it would have to look like literal roadblocked checkpoints where you either show your proof of citizenship or you go to detention until you are able to prove it, right? How else is it going to work?