POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I mean it would have to look like literal roadblocked checkpoints where you either show your proof of citizenship or you go to detention until you are able to prove it, right? How else is it going to work?

And maybe create a special police force that goes into schools, businesses, and homes and asks people for their papers.

I’m trying to think of where we have seen that before.

[albionmoonlight]

It's the Shirley Principle.

"Surely, they are just going to go after the bad people."
"Surely, they won't use this new power to harass or intimidate"
"Surely they will give people the chance to correct an honest paperwork mistake"

No one trusts the government more than conservatives in 2024.

[Lathum]

I don’t think it’s as much they trust the government as the government is going after the people they hate. Let’s be honest, do you really think white conservatives actually care if the brown people who don’t speak English are citizens or not?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I mean it would have to look like literal roadblocked checkpoints where you either show your proof of citizenship or you go to detention until you are able to prove it, right? How else is it going to work?

Well, they'll save some money by combining it with stopping women of childbearing age to check for pregnancy or birth control since that's usually on the next line of bills to pass.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Do you carry proof of citizenship with you at all times? Do you expect mass deportation to have hearings for proof of citizenship?

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality. You can’t deport an American to a foreign country. The foreign country has to accept them and unless you are suggesting that other countries are not aware that they need to check for citizenship proof before accepting these “imaginary American deportees”, you must know this isn’t a sensical concern.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality. You can’t deport an American to a foreign country. The foreign country has to accept them and unless you are suggesting that other countries are not aware that they need to check for citizenship proof before accepting these “imaginary American deportees”, you must know this isn’t a sensical concern.

So what you’re saying is you are totally ok with people unconstitutionally being asked for papers, illegally detained, then possibly being deported to a country they are not from who’s job it will then be to figure it out?

How white of you.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

And there's no reason to stop it. There are popular (yet unfeasible) ideas out there to be embraced harmlessly. If he senses trouble, why stop at this level? Why not a promise to cut income taxes in half for everyone, on day one (the dictator phase, heh)? Just mumble some stuff about a booming economy paying for it, or how tariffs will, or that we will pay for it with a trillion dollar coin, or whatever... nobody holds him to any details so why stop pledging the moon and stars?

Fish in a barrel. I'll be back in two days when the next absurdity pops up.

BREAKING: Trump announces that as president, he will immediately implement a temporary 10% cap on credit card interest rates

"We can't let them make it 25% and 30%."

Credit card interest rates are at a historic high under the Kamala-Biden regime. His simple plan will alleviate… pic.twitter.com/yENoVsqv1S

— George (@BehizyTweets) September 19, 2024

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality.

Personally, I wouldn't call it "reality" but I'd call it different priority. On a scale of 1-10, I suspect you and I are in the 8-10 range and many here are on the 0-2 range (e.g. illegal immigrants are not a problem).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality. You can’t deport an American to a foreign country. The foreign country has to accept them and unless you are suggesting that other countries are not aware that they need to check for citizenship proof before accepting these “imaginary American deportees”, you must know this isn’t a sensical concern.

You can tighten border security without mass deportations.

So you really think this is going to move slowly enough that people will be verified both here and in the country of origin? How does that square with Trump's claim that mass deportations and camps will start on day one?

How will both the US and the second country check for citizenship? There isn't a list somewhere that can be quickly checked. It requires documentation. What happens when there isn't any documentation? How do we know where to deport to? What happens if the second country says no as will certainly happen in some places like Venezuela?

What's probable cause for checking citizenship? Will it take a second violation or will they demand proof on sight? What happens to people who can't prove citizenship but claim they are? Will there be hearings? What happens to people waiting for hearings?

Is all of this planned for and they are just keeping it a secret or are they just going to start rounding up and hope for the best?

It's funny that you say I'm not serious when all you have is trust me it will all work out okay.

[Vegas Vic]

Uncle Ronnie didn't believe in deportation.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Personally, I wouldn't call it "reality" but I'd call it different priority. On a scale of 1-10, I suspect you and I are in the 8-10 range and many here are on the 0-2 range (e.g. illegal immigrants are not a problem).

At the risk of speaking for others, I think most realize immigration is an issue.

The problem is the so called solutions from the GOP just aren't realistic and pander to low information and low IQ voters who lack the ability to critically think.

A wall wouldn't solve anything and mass deportations on the scale Trump is proposing just isn't feasible without massive costs and violating the rights of Americans. Unless you are in the "have to break a few eggs to make an omelet camp" when it comes to other peoples liberties you can't see this as a realistic solution.

Dutch dodged the question, maybe you'll answer. Logistically what does Trumps proposed mass deportations look like?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You can tighten border security without mass deportations.

So you really think this is going to move slowly enough that people will be verified both here and in the country of origin? How does that square with Trump's claim that mass deportations and camps will start on day one?

How will both the US and the second country check for citizenship? There isn't a list somewhere that can be quickly checked. It requires documentation. What happens when there isn't any documentation? How do we know where to deport to? What happens if the second country says no as will certainly happen in some places like Venezuela?

What's probable cause for checking citizenship? Will it take a second violation or will they demand proof on sight? What happens to people who can't prove citizenship but claim they are? Will there be hearings? What happens to people waiting for hearings?

Is all of this planned for and they are just keeping it a secret or are they just going to start rounding up and hope for the best?

It's funny that you say I'm not serious when all you have is trust me it will all work out okay.

Conservatives won't care as long as they send all the cat eating Haitians to Venezuela and not Haitia

[JPhillips]

I should also add, what happens to the people here on amnesty claims? They aren't citizens but are here legally.

And for that matter, what about people traveling? What happens to people who can't prove their visa status on demand? Do we just trust their word or are they detained?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You can tighten border security without mass deportations.

So you really think this is going to move slowly enough that people will be verified both here and in the country of origin? How does that square with Trump's claim that mass deportations and camps will start on day one?

How will both the US and the second country check for citizenship? There isn't a list somewhere that can be quickly checked. It requires documentation. What happens when there isn't any documentation? How do we know where to deport to? What happens if the second country says no as will certainly happen in some places like Venezuela?

What's probable cause for checking citizenship? Will it take a second violation or will they demand proof on sight? What happens to people who can't prove citizenship but claim they are? Will there be hearings? What happens to people waiting for hearings?

Is all of this planned for and they are just keeping it a secret or are they just going to start rounding up and hope for the best?

It's funny that you say I'm not serious when all you have is trust me it will all work out okay.

I'm skeptical that checking people's citizenship could get past even this SCOTUS.

Cost, what to do with people that don't cooperate, what to do with people from countries that womt accept them back, what are you doing with US citizens that wont cooperate, are you doing with people that don't have proof but claim to be citizens, where are we putting people pending deportation at each step on the way out of the country, and back to cost.

You can't claim to care about the budget and deficit and support this.

[JPhillips]

You can just look at the math and understand this is an impossible task. Deporting 10000000 people means three thousand a day for ten years. Obviously that's ridiculous, but the GOP is fixated on "plans" that won't possibly work.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

At the risk of speaking for others, I think most realize immigration is an issue.

The problem is the so called solutions from the GOP just aren't realistic and pander to low information and low IQ voters who lack the ability to critically think.

A wall wouldn't solve anything and mass deportations on the scale Trump is proposing just isn't feasible without massive costs and violating the rights of Americans. Unless you are in the "have to break a few eggs to make an omelet camp" when it comes to other peoples liberties you can't see this as a realistic solution.

Dutch dodged the question, maybe you'll answer. Logistically what does Trumps proposed mass deportations look like?

I'll be glad to answer this question on how I would do it if I was President and will do so later today (have an errand to run). Note that I'll not be answering as Trump. I'll reframe the question as "how would President Edward deal with illegal immigration".

I'll assume we'll have a back-and-forth, both doing Q&A without any attacks on person (vs position). Let me know if this is acceptable (or not) to you.

Because I plan to ask you for your solutions, my question to you when we continue this discussion is:

On a scale of 1-10 where Dutch and I are probably 8-10, and 0-2 is not a big problem, where you are on illegal immigration?

In anticipation of someone complaining about me, let me know if you want to move this over to the Immigration thread. If you want to keep it here, no problem.

Oh, in another anticipation of "can't do it, it's impossible", I'll just refer to the Immigration thread where I said

You keep on coming up with "can't do this because of x, y, z". With that approach, we would never have gone to the moon, or created social security, or passed watered-down Obamacare, or passed the infrastructure bill (because the GOP will never negotiate with Joe), Elon Musk would never have created/advanced Tesla, Jobs would never have come up with iPhone (with the Newton fiasco) etc. ad nauseum.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'll be glad to answer this question on how I would do it if I was President and will do so later today (have an errand to run). Note that I'll not be answering as Trump. I'll reframe the question as "how would President Edward deal with illegal immigration".

I'll assume we'll have a back-and-forth, both doing Q&A without any attacks on person (vs position). Let me know if this is acceptable (or not) to you.

Because I plan to ask you for your solutions, my question to you when we continue this discussion is:

On a scale of 1-10 where Dutch and I are probably 8-10, and 0-2 is not a big problem, where you are on illegal immigration?

In anticipation of someone complaining about me, let me know if you want to move this over to the Immigration thread. If you want to keep it here, no problem.

I will be civil and I think a discussion here is fitting given the context of the conversation.

I would put the problem at a 5. I think we need a way to process asylum claims much faster. I also think we need these people here to prop up our economy so it is necessary. I think the GOP uses this as a boogeyman (caravans, emptying insane asylums, rapists and thugs, etc....) to frighten people when almost all of these people are here to escape horrific conditions and make a better life for them and their families.

[Thomkal]

So it looks like some of the attendees at a Trump rally in Arizona are having problems with their eyes:


Trump rally goers suffer mysterious eye injuries: 'I can't see anything' - Raw Story

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So it looks like some of the attendees at a Trump rally in Arizona are having problems with their eyes:


Trump rally goers suffer mysterious eye injuries: 'I can't see anything' - Raw Story

thats the risk you take sitting behind Trump

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Lathum

People who support this have zero expectations of what it will look like because they haven't thought past "brown people bad."

They're not concerned, because white people will never get carded.

[thesloppy]

Making America great again, via the citizenship checkpoints, school metal detectors, armed teachers and abortion bounties, just like we all remember from our youth.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Oh, in another anticipation of "can't do it, it's impossible", I'll just refer to the Immigration thread where I said

So being able to deport millions from our country is a sign of American greatness on par with the moon landing?

I honestly don't even understand the point being made there.

Are you OK with US citizens being detained because they don't have their citizenship papers on them?

[Lathum]

Sounds like all time terrible human being Mark Robinson may be dropping from the race. CNN reportedly about to drop a bombshell on him.

[albionmoonlight]

Apparently (this is stuff I'm reading, so I don't know) the deadline to drop out is TONIGHT, so they (Robinson and the GOP) have to decide really quickly.

Seems like a bit of a gift from CNN to leak the story to him while he still had time to get out.

And considering everything else that we know about Robinson, what the hell can this dealbreaking bombshell be?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Apparently (this is stuff I'm reading, so I don't know) the deadline to drop out is TONIGHT, so they (Robinson and the GOP) have to decide really quickly.

Seems like a bit of a gift from CNN to leak the story to him while he still had time to get out.

And considering everything else that we know about Robinson, what the hell can this dealbreaking bombshell be?

I’m
Seeing something to do with an online adult site. His campaign is denying it. Apparently he can drop out but his name can’t be removed from the ballot and his opponent leaked the story. I suspect it was today on purpose. I also read the Trump campaign told him they don’t want him to appear at rallies for Trump or Vance. When even Trump thinks you’re toxic it’s pretty bad.

[albionmoonlight]

The crazy thing is, his GOP primary opponents were real and credible politicians. I have no idea why they didn't attack Robinson with all of this (not hard to find) stuff during the primary.

[GrantDawg]

#BREAKING: Source familiar w/ forthcoming CNN story says revelations about Robinson include him saying things in online chats about liking transgender porn, peeping inside women’s locker rooms while he studied at NC A&T and wanting to own slaves. #ncpol https://t.co/tQsp3uj4vr

— Bryan Anderson (@BryanRAnderson) September 19, 2024

[larrymcg421]

The timing makes it seem more like the leak came from the GOP. Why wouldn't the Dem wait one more day?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The timing makes it seem more like the leak came from the GOP. Why wouldn't the Dem wait one more day?

What I was thinking as well. Maybe Republicans leaked it preemptively knowing the Democrats has it?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The timing makes it seem more like the leak came from the GOP. Why wouldn't the Dem wait one more day?

NC supreme ct apparently has ruled they can’t reprint the ballots so my assumption is do it today when he can still drop to get maximum chaos as opposed to when he can’t drop and it being another scandal .

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

#BREAKING: Source familiar w/ forthcoming CNN story says revelations about Robinson include him saying things in online chats about liking transgender porn, peeping inside women’s locker rooms while he studied at NC A&T and wanting to own slaves. #ncpol https://t.co/tQsp3uj4vr

— Bryan Anderson (@BryanRAnderson) September 19, 2024

This is the guy Trump said was better than MLK.

[GrantDawg]

He just released a video denying the allegations and saying he refuses to drop out.


Edit: He quotes Clarence Thomas, saying it is a "high-tech lynching."

[Lathum]

According to this article it was his opponents campaign

Robinson under pressure to withdraw from gubernatorial race

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Lathum

NC supreme ct apparently has ruled they can’t reprint the ballots so my assumption is do it today when he can still drop to get maximum chaos as opposed to when he can’t drop and it being another scandal .

I think that's too risky when you're already winning by a ton. Not disagreeing that he did it, but I think that was the wrong move strategically.

[Lathum]

Mark Robinson, NC GOP nominee for governor, called himself a ‘black NAZI!,’ supported slavery in past comments made on porn forum | CNN Politics

[bronconick]

Between this and Cunningham in 2020, is it a NC thing to end up with a sex scandal at the last minute?

[Ben E Lou]

Ironic the party complaining about unqualified “DEI hires” just picks the worst black candidates ever. Remember Herschel Walker? �� https://t.co/VnmAlPhQZ9

— nope (@PrinceHAK33M) September 19, 2024

[sovereignstar v2]

Royce White says hold my beer

[albionmoonlight]

This will all be a lot less funny in 4 years when he’s the GOP nominee for President and leading in 5 of 6 swing states.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

This will all be a lot less funny in 4 years when he’s the GOP nominee for President and leading in 5 of 6 swing states.

Or Trump names him to the Supreme Court.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah, the GOP is tryna get him outta there. Singin' all over the place.

New from me: Mark Robinson's email address was also registered on Ashley Madison, the website for married people seeking affairs. A adviser confirmed the email address belongs to him. https://t.co/GgribTrakS

— Natalie Allison (@natalie_allison) September 19, 2024

[SirFozzie]

Now, it could be that someone signed him up for it for just this kinda thing (but if it was confirmed, then, yeah)

[Passacaglia]

Who is "A adviser?"

EDIT: I see further down it specifies "An adviser to the North Carolina Republican"

[GrantDawg]

Lol...

Best friends ❤️ pic.twitter.com/baS5sRfzIo

— Kamala HQ (@KamalaHQ) September 19, 2024

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yeah, the GOP is tryna get him outta there. Singin' all over the place.



Best reaction: Vance also has an account, but he thought it was Ashley's Furniture.

[Ben E Lou]

There is now a fun real-time race: NC Republican candidates for office trying to delete pictures on social media with Robinson vs the people tryna screen shot them before they get taken down. It appears that the screen shotters are holding their own.

[Lathum]

If the Harris campaign doesn't absolutely blast NC with ads showing Trump calling Robinson MLK on steroids nonstop it's political malpractice.

[GrantDawg]

Robinson is claiming that all of it was done with AI. The problem is that these are on forums with dates from 14 years ago. It can be verified that they have been there for over a decade. Unless someone has a time machine AI, then that can't be the case. And if they do have a time machine AI, why did they not go back 14 years ago and buy me a couple hundred shares of Nvidia and some Bitcoin?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Uncle Ronnie didn't believe in deportation.

Big fan of Ronald Reagan. One of the best presidents we ever had.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Personally, I wouldn't call it "reality" but I'd call it different priority. On a scale of 1-10, I suspect you and I are in the 8-10 range and many here are on the 0-2 range (e.g. illegal immigrants are not a problem).

That’s fair.

I’d say that’s also on par with a 1-10 scale of “best interests of the USA” with 10 being, “The USA is pretty awesome” and 1 being, “The USA can burn in hell”.

Ironically, I am a big fan of the USA’s #1 rank on legal immigration (with our 1,000,000 quota per year being nearly twice that of Germany, the second most generous nation on earth). The majority of legal immigrants are Catholics coming from Mexico, Central & South America and most of the rest are eastern Asia.

For anybody to be against securing the border and allowing immigration to work as our bi-partisan lawmakers have said it works best simply doesn’t have the best interest of the nation at heart.