Game of Thrones on HBO

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bob

I don’t get why she burnt the whole city down. What is she even ruling at this point?

Well Westeros is more than King's Landing. And she burnt it down because she was pissed and wanted to take it out on the city who didn't rally to her as soon as she showed up.

[spleen1015]

Because she's fucking nuts at this point.

[spleen1015]

She's the mad que.....

[MizzouRah]

Awesome episode.. figured Jamie would kill Euron and the hound would finish off his brother, etc.. but a good episode nonetheless.

I haven't read any spoilers but Jon is going to end up on the throne. Arya is going to take out Daenerys.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by bob

I don’t get why she burnt the whole city down. What is she even ruling at this point?

The accumulation of grief and fury - revenge on anyone whoever's played even an indirect part of wronging her and her family. Coin finally landed after being headed in that direction since at least Meereen (though one of my friends argued the seed was planted back even earlier than that).

Plus, that's one way to make sure there's no future tyrants. Destroy everything the tyrants built.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Awesome episode.. figured Jamie would kill Euron and the hound would finish off his brother, etc.. but a good episode nonetheless.

I haven't read any spoilers but Jon is going to end up on the throne. Arya is going to take out Daenerys.

Which would be a really shitty ending. Jon is the absolute worst and he'll fall to the first act of subterfuge or disaster that he mishandles because he's that fucking stupid.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well Westeros is more than King's Landing. And she burnt it down because she was pissed and wanted to take it out on the city who didn't rally to her as soon as she showed up.

And because if she hadn't, everyone might demand Jon on the throne. The plan to take the city worked like a charm. Minimum bloodshed. The city surrendered. And now two people with claims to the Iron Throne have taken the city. People might get the idea that the man who grew up in Westeros and has the better claim should get it over the woman who grew up across the sea and is effectively a foreign invader with a worse claim.

Now, even if Jon's identity does get out, everyone will know the price of not following Daenerys Stormborn.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why do the Dothraki scene in the Battle of Winterfell if you're going to say a bunch of them lived?

Almost everyone is dead...oh wait we have at least 5000 troops that survived the battle with the dead

[spleen1015]

A Direwolf doesn't belong in the south. No way Jon sits on the Iron Throne. They told us his fate last episode.

[Coffee Warlord]

I see the scorpions went from laser guided rapid-fire missiles to utterly useless in the span of one episode.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by sabotai

And because if she hadn't, everyone might demand Jon on the throne. The plan to take the city worked like a charm. Minimum bloodshed. The city surrendered. And now two people with claims to the Iron Throne have taken the city. People might get the idea that the man who grew up in Westeros and has the better claim should get it over the woman who grew up across the sea and is effectively a foreign invader with a worse claim.

Now, even if Jon's identity does get out, everyone will know the price of not following Daenerys Stormborn.

That reminds me of something I just commented to one of my friends. Applying Machiavelli's The Prince to Daenerys is going to make a really great paper that someone needs to do.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I see the scorpions went from laser guided rapid-fire missiles to utterly useless in the span of one episode.

Was literally about to post exactly this

[ISiddiqui]

Jon doesn't want the Throne. I can see him (and/or Arya) taking out Daenerys, and then Jon leaving and the realm being ruled by more of an Oligarchy of the ruling families of the 7 Kingdoms.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I see the scorpions went from laser guided rapid-fire missiles to utterly useless in the span of one episode.

Made the same comment to my wife

[spleen1015]

But she had the sun at her back!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yes, that was a very good episode, and I don't think there were that many logic breaks or holes comparatively (edit: What I mean is it mostly fixed the logic holes of previous episodes - like a dragon can totally fuck a fleet, duh).

Meanwhile I dislike it for that same reason - what's the point of talking about the forces now being even or that whole battle last week where Daenerys didn't burn the fleet, or showing the Golden Company and all the crossbows if you were just going to have the dragon go back to being unstoppable dominate everything? Why show "all" the Dothraki being basically destroyed, and then another division show up when convenient? Why have Dany complete her full transformation (which I would have been on board with if done right) because the bells start ringing and the city is surrendering? Why not have the city and Cersei surrender, then a spiteful Cersei/Qyburn kill Missandei and the 2nd dragon there and cause Dany to go into a murderous rage and start murdering civilians?

Sorry I'm fully on the hating side now, but I don't care how many cool shots you have if you're just going to completely ignore the plot and change the rules all the time.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

But she had the sun at her back!

She had the high ground this time.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I see the scorpions went from laser guided rapid-fire missiles to utterly useless in the span of one episode.

Not even the span of one episode. They were all taken out in the first 2 minutes of the assault.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Jon doesn't want the Throne. I can see him (and/or Arya) taking out Daenerys, and then Jon leaving and the realm being ruled by more of an Oligarchy of the ruling families of the 7 Kingdoms.

Had that same thought - that this eventually leads to a more decentralized government, whether oligarchy or a republic - which would really tie into The Prince, if you're of the school that says following the directions would lead to a republic (Machivaelli's preferred form of gov't).

[Edward64]

Alright. Everyone that has not read any spoilers, make your call.

Dany and/or Jon won't win the throne. Dany is dead or she goes off and lives with Jon somewhere far, far away.

I think it'll be Sansa.

It could be Arya as a faceless man switcheroo but that would be too weird.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Izulde

The accumulation of grief and fury - revenge on anyone whoever's played even an indirect part of wronging her and her family. Coin finally landed after being headed in that direction since at least Meereen (though one of my friends argued the seed was planted back even earlier than that).

Plus, that's one way to make sure there's no future tyrants. Destroy everything the tyrants built.

What are you talking about with no future tyrants? She's not breaking the wheel still, she's choosing to rule as a despot and a tyrant with her stormtroopers and her Death Star.

And like I said, I could buy her transformation happening because she saw Missandei and a 2nd dragon die. I don't buy it happening days/weeks after that because she heard some bells ringing. She wasn't even trying to kill Cersei who she should've been directing her anger at she was just blowing up peasants before anyone even tried to get to Cersei. (And presumably her own armies too, but they certainly seemed to be making the case that Daenerys was doing such a good job scouting and accurately directing her dragon fire that her soldiers were just missing the flames and burning rubble.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Alright. Everyone that has not read any spoilers, make your call.

Dany and/or Jon won't win the throne. Dany is dead or she goes off and lives with Jon somewhere far, far away.

I think it'll be Sansa.

It could be Arya as a faceless man switcheroo but that would be too weird.

Sansa is the wildcard for sure and wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[Coffee Warlord]

I could buy her bee-lining for the Red Keep and burning the whole damn thing to the ground, not giving a shit about the collateral damage.

Nope. Let's go murder civilians and destroy the entire outer city for...reasons.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by stevew

Almost everyone is dead...oh wait we have at least 5000 troops that survived the battle with the dead

Yup, including the Dothraki. If they had given a hint of some of the Dothraki being held back in the NK battle, it would have been so much better.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

A Direwolf doesn't belong in the south. No way Jon sits on the Iron Throne. They told us his fate last episode.

Good point. Sansa would be my 2nd choice.. I just don't see Dany not getting whacked.. or maybe she chooses to leave with Jon.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

A Direwolf doesn't belong in the south. No way Jon sits on the Iron Throne. They told us his fate last episode.

Hey, if you're gonna retire back to the North, you could have far worse drinking buddies to spend your days with than Tormund.

[stevew]

All we need now is for Dany to be defended by Jackie Chiles and we can have the worst finale ever

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Alright. Everyone that has not read any spoilers, make your call.

Dany and/or Jon won't win the throne. Dany is dead or she goes off and lives with Jon somewhere far, far away.

I think it'll be Sansa.

It could be Arya as a faceless man switcheroo but that would be too weird.

Just as they announce who wins the throne, the screen cuts to black.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. Two comments from other places amused me.

1) Wonder what all those people who named their kids Dany or Khaleesi are thinking right about now.

2) RIP the idiot Dornish lady who just had a castle fall on her.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I see the scorpions went from laser guided rapid-fire missiles to utterly useless in the span of one episode.

Regression to the mean.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by bob

I don’t get why she burnt the whole city down. What is she even ruling at this point?

Because she has a fucking dragon.

[Izulde]

My Predictions (Haven't read spoilers, refuse to, and will avoid them at all costs:

Sansa's played the game superbly. She wins the Iron Throne and offers Dany the choice to either die or go back to Essos. Dany opts for Essos and returns to either being Queen of Meereen or Khaleesi of the Dothraki.

Jon fucks off back up north and good riddance to him.

Arya heads off back to Braavos.

The whole thing wraps up with Samwell Tarly starting to write the chronicle.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Regression to the mean.

Yeah they had an non sustainable launch angle

[Atocep]

Probably my favorite episode this season. As a stand alone it's very good. Plot inconsistencies with previous episodes drag it down though. This episode had more of a GRRM feel to it than the previous 4.

I knew talking to tyrion was going to get varys killed and that's why I think it was out of character for him.

Its still a bit weird to kill of the knight king the way they did in order to set up cersie as a squash match for Daenerys to turn heel.

I enjoyed Cleganebowl.

Wtf is the point of Bran in this series?

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Holy shit.

*That* was the epic the dud against the dead should have been.

I don't care about logic breaks, holes, or anything. That was a god damn cinematic masterpiece.

That's kind of where I've been this whole season. Minus some pacing last episode I'm just sitting back and enjoying what has been my favorite show ever. For some reason this season I don't even care what happens. I'm just enjoying what we get

[GoldenEagle]

I really liked the episode and I have been critical of this season so far.

Yes, tons of plot holes and whatever. That was one of the best episode of the series.

[bhlloy]

Holy shit has Tyrion been wrong and then some. Arya killing Dany and nobody ending up on the iron throne is being foreshadowed so fucking hard it’s almost impossible to not see it happening now.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Holy shit has Tyrion been wrong and then some. Arya killing Dany and nobody ending up on the iron throne is being foreshadowed so fucking hard it’s almost impossible to not see it happening now.

I'm more curious about how Tyrion's plot progression goes in the books vs the show more than anyone else's. He's essentially become an unreliable shell of his former self. No longer clever and nor strategic. He's living off of his reputation at this point in the show.

[stevew]

Why was Wildfire burning in that battle?

[MrBug708]

Hope Jon still ends up taking the throne, but I doubt it

[larrymcg421]

I think the bolts were designed to fire quickly, but that meant nothing when she knew they were coming. The bolts couldn't be maneuvred fast enough to hit a dragon that wasn't flying in predictable patterns.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Had that same thought - that this eventually leads to a more decentralized government, whether oligarchy or a republic - which would really tie into The Prince, if you're of the school that says following the directions would lead to a republic (Machivaelli's preferred form of gov't).

Then some rich Oligarch is going to seize power and attempt to “make Westeros great again”?

[stevew]

Dany killed the fake news guy already

[RainMaker]

Some cool scenes but the writing is so bad at this point. Like half the characters entire development throughout the series was either thrown away or ignored.

[whomario]

Re: Tyrion


His whole 'shtick' has been being "an excellent judge of character". Once he gets that wrong with Daenerys, everything else follows.


Re: Wyldfire


Was pretty well established that large parts of the city were riddled with the leftover storage from Aerys. Cersei found some (and then blew it up) but aparently not the rest or didn't bother to try.


Re: Daenerys


I am in the camp that thinks this ultimate turn of events is hella rushed, but in essence not exactly surprising. A regular 10 episode season (think with the extra length this one if about 8ish ?) would have sit better with me if used for more elaborate pacing, i think. But alas ... One alternative for me would have been her going back to Essos mid-season, which seemed to have been opened up as a possibility by Misandei/Greyworm putting to words the general feeling of alienation/not being welcome that obviously also plagued Dany.



Re: Ending


I am pretty sure Sansa will play a role in the final episode as will the other Starks (maybe even Bran !). That's the one thing that i can't see changing even now, that family is the touchstone/anchor of the show and the ending will reflect that in a "see, that's the important thing, not the throne" kind of way.

[bob]

Overall was shot well, but two things I didn't like:

- Euron / Jamie fight

- There was no tension in Arya escaping because at no point did I think they would kill her.

[bob]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Because she's fucking nuts at this point.

Stolen from elsewhere:

Over the course of one episode she went from “I’m for the people” to “fuck the people.” It’s not that most people didn’t see her turn. It’s the break-neck speed at which it happened.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Dany is dead or she goes off and lives with Jon somewhere far, far away.

My initial thought was that I'd give you a million dollars if that happened after Jon realized what she did, but he's been proved to be so god damn stupid that maybe it's possible.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by bob

- There was no tension in Arya escaping because at no point did I think they would kill her.

Personally i never thought that 'tension' was the point here in a "will she die or not" sort of way, more that she served as a sort-of POV character to get a comprehensive view of the chaos/devastation on the ground.

[spleen1015]

I'm disappointed that Arya didn't get to kill Cersei.