The 2013-2014 NFL Offseason/Coaching/Free Agency (non-draft) Thread

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Lathum

good for this kid and shame on any team that passes up on him because of his sexual orientation,

Just fwiw, most mock drafts were placing him in the 3rd/4th round before this. I know he wouldn't fit the Patriots system because he's too small for 3-4 OLB at "only" 6'2, 255. It'd be more interesting from that perspective if Clowney or even Kony Ealy had been the one that came out.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

He probably needs to go to a team that is a 3-4 and fairly deep so he can develop. He basically had one phenomenal season. He needs time to grow and learn to be a LB.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Lathum

...shame on any team that passes up on him because of his sexual orientation, although I do think the distractions that come with it could be Tebowesque.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Just fwiw, most mock drafts were placing him in the 3rd/4th round before this.

These two comments hit on my first thought: I don't think many teams will pass on him because of his sexual orientation, though I would expect that a select few might because of big locker room concerns. I think the bigger issue for more teams might be that they don't think that a mid-round talent is worth the level of distraction that the inevitable media frenzy is going to bring.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Yeah, I've come completely around on Collinsworth. Used to hate him, now I actually find I enjoy him more than most.

Exactly the same here.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

These two comments hit on my first thought: I don't think many teams will pass on him because of his sexual orientation, though I would expect that a select few might because of big locker room concerns. I think the bigger issue for more teams might be that they don't think that a mid-round talent is worth the level of distraction that the inevitable media frenzy is going to bring.

To steal a couple lines...Missouri went from 5-7 in 2012 to 12-2 last season. Doesn't seem like there should be too much concern about how it affects locker room chemistry.

And from Domonique Foxworth, head of the NFLPA...some NFL locker rooms, as currently constituted, need disrupting.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Logan

To steal a couple lines...Missouri went from 5-7 in 2012 to 12-2 last season. Doesn't seem like there should be too much concern about how it affects locker room chemistry.

And from Domonique Foxworth, head of the NFLPA...some NFL locker rooms, as currently constituted, need disrupting.

I'm not saying that they *should* think that way, I'm just suggesting that some *might*.

Some of the stuff that's coming out this morning has even me surprised.

When Name Is On The Record: "We applaud Michael Sam and look forward to him joining our progressive league!"

When Name Is Off The Record: "Our locker rooms aren't ready for this."

NFL Executives Say The League Isn't Ready For Michael Sam

As I said earlier, I would have thought that the likely media circus would be the bigger prohibiting factor. One other potential biggie for him in particular is that he's considered a 'tweener. What if it turns out he just doesn't cut it on the field? I think the fact that no one wants to be the team to cut the league's first openly gay player could also hurt his draft stock.

All that said, I think another interesting angle is that if his stock does fall significantly, will there be internal pressure for someone to draft him? The last thing the NFL wants is the inevitable spin that no one drafted him because he's openly gay. I'm very curious to see how all this plays out.

[Logan]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that those were your own thoughts...was just responding to that scenario.

I read the Peter King article and agree with a lot of people out there that he shouldn't have offered anonymity to those guys in the first place, but whatever. If the NFL isn't "ready", whatever the hell that means, that's a big problem that the league needs to figure out. It's not Sam's fault and he certainly doesn't need to hide anything about his life because others might have an issue. I know very little about the guy, but my bet is that, whatever shit he gets over this, he'll be able to deal with it just fine. Again, if a group of 18-22 year olds can handle this, there's no reason NFL players can't.

And I think too many are focusing on what could happen and any fallout. The NFL is about winning. They're not going to waste a valuable pick on a guy to not give him the chance to succeed, and they're not going to give him more opportunities to prove himself than he deserves just because of how it could look if he gets cut. The first time someone questions it, NFL Live can do a segment where they show him getting swallowed up by blockers or failing to make a tackle.

[Julio Riddols]

I'd love Cinci to grab this guy if he indeed falls a little bit. He could be useful in multiple roles and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He could learn from James Harrison for a year. I think we'll all be surprised at how much of a non story this all ends up being.

[JPhillips]

I wish the guy all the success in the world, but I'm done with Cincy taking guys with the intention of changing positions. It might have worked with Pollack if the injury didn't ruin his career, but otherwise it's been failure after failure.

[Julio Riddols]

I think spending a 5th or 6th on this guy is preferable to taking a guy with a lot less talent who likely won't ever be good enough to start. The work Guenther has done with the LB's in Cinci has been pretty amazing.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

One other potential biggie for him in particular is that he's considered a 'tweener. What if it turns out he just doesn't cut it on the field? I think the fact that no one wants to be the team to cut the league's first openly gay player could also hurt his draft stock.

Saw this with Notre Dame and Ty Willingham. No matter how many years later or how poorly he did at his next stop you still have people who believe ND fired him because he was black. Sometimes that knee-jerk rush to condemn any team as prejudiced and use one player as a referendum actually hurts the "oppressed" minority. If he doesn't get drafted at all, and a guy like Kerry Rhodes being out of a job looks pretty damning, but if he falls to, say, the 5th round? Because every team will pass over Sam at least once, and probably 2-3 times if not more, and at least early in the draft it will have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Sometimes players just fall - Vontaze Burfict always had the talent, had a phenomenally productive college career, but went all the way from 1st round pick to undrafted.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Summarized well by former ESPN page 2 guy DJ Gallo

To recap: NFL people think Aaron Hernandez would draw interest if he gets off. Michael Sam? His future is murky

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Summarized well by former ESPN page 2 guy DJ Gallo

Exactly. I think most NFL teams would welcome a character guy over some of these idiots that are REAL distractions on their team.

[SteveMax58]

I think there are 2 really good things, from Sam's perspective, to coming out publicly:

1. He is obviously getting publicity from this and making teams, coaches, scouts, owners, etc. highly aware of who he is, and what he "might" bring to the table. They certainly knew this guy before, but this actually brings more detail to the forefront on who this guy is, and what the potential media attention/fanbase reaction might be to drafting him.

2. This also has the impact of him most likely going to a better fit of a team/culture. GMs/owners that might consider drafting him are now able to reflect on their team makeup and decide if this guy will be able to succeed in their environment, or if their environment is going to drive him away. It might sound like an obvious situation where "if your locker room cant support a guy like this without driving him off, then change the locker room". That sounds nice but is really not easy to change overnight without serious owner support for running those elements off your roster...potentially at the expense of your highest paid/talent players. Much as the teams want to portray themselves as being socially/culturally in sync with the rest of society, the game is about winning for the GM that doesn't want to get fired.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Exactly. I think most NFL teams would welcome a character guy over some of these idiots that are REAL distractions on their team.

Eh, that gets back to my point about teams possibly not being willing to take a risk for a mid-round talent. Hernandez has put up big-time numbers, therefore they'll likely be more willing to risk the issues that come with him. If you put a mid-round unproven rookie with Hernandez's baggage up against Sams, Sams would be preferred. To be clear, I'm saying that if Sams were a first-round talent, it's likely that his stock would fall less over something like this.

[Lathum]

I wonder if he had such a great senior season because he had the weight of living a lie lifted off. Maybe there is some NFL running back out there who is gay and uses so much mental energy to deal with his secret everyday and trying to blend in that it hurts his on field performance.

I hope David Wilson is banging Justin Pugh.

[cuervo72]

Must hold onto secret...can't hold onto ball!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I wonder if he had such a great senior season because he had the weight of living a lie lifted off. Maybe there is some NFL running back out there who is gay and uses so much mental energy to deal with his secret everyday and trying to blend in that it hurts his on field performance.

I hope David Wilson is banging Justin Pugh.

I almost spit out a mouthful of tea at this.

[Thomkal]

Now that we've reached this point, I'm hoping the few gay players that were rumored to come out as a group last season do so now so it's not just this one guy out there alone. Having already established in their locker room veteran players might help ease the "discomfort" that some will no doubt have with a gay player(s) in their locker room.

[molson]

I thought I read a survey once that indicated that most NFL players already knew of specific gay players in the league. Just because a guy's not open the world it doesn't mean he's not open to some friends and teammates. And I'm sure I've read that there's more support for gay marriage among NFL players than there is in the general population.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Now that we've reached this point, I'm hoping the few gay players that were rumored to come out as a group last season do so now so it's not just this one guy out there alone. Having already established in their locker room veteran players might help ease the "discomfort" that some will no doubt have with a gay player(s) in their locker room.

I think there's far more than people realize and I agree that it could serve as a catalyst.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I think there's far more than people realize and I agree that it could serve as a catalyst.

My money's on Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. It makes too much sense.

[Dutch]

BREAKING NEWS: ESPN is now reporting that ESPN isn't sure this is news without ESPN reporting the hell out of it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Retired NFL Receiver Destroys Argument Against Gay Players

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Must hold onto secret...can't hold onto ball!

We would just assume that David Wilson can't hold onto a bar of soap so we can't use that as any kind of indicator.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Retired NFL Receiver Destroys Argument Against Gay Players

Except...the Pats cut Tebow..so they didnt have to deal with the media circus.
Not sure Donte didnt make the point for Herm.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Except...the Pats cut Tebow..so they didnt have to deal with the media circus.
Not sure Donte didnt make the point for Herm.

They still had him all through camp. I'm sure any potential Tebow circus was limited a bit by the focus on Hernandez, but with him gone and Gronk hurt, there was plenty of press coverage about Tebow's potential to be this hidden gem of a TE.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Except...the Pats cut Tebow..so they didnt have to deal with the media circus.
Not sure Donte didnt make the point for Herm.

So there it is, once you sign a "media circus" guy, then cutting him must OBVIOUSLY be because of the media circus. I don't think that logic follows at all, but that the perception is there. That if you sign media circus guy, you're stuck with him forever unless you want to be accused of cutting a guy for reasons besides football. With Tebow that didn't matter too much, but with a gay guy, I can see GMs worrying about that.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

So there it is, once you sign a "media circus" guy, then cutting him must OBVIOUSLY be because of the media circus. I don't think that logic follows at all, but that the perception is there. That if you sign media circus guy, you're stuck with him forever unless you want to be accused of cutting a guy for reasons besides football. With Tebow that didn't matter too much, but with a gay guy, I can see GMs worrying about that.

I just think, by and large, those who are making these types of decisions in terms of player evaluation don't really worry much about that. If your scouting/player personnel department has a 3rd round grade on a player available in the 4th/5th, they are most likely going to trust that evaluation and grab the guy. I'd be really surprised if they think "what happens if he isn't as good as we think he is?" unless you're talking about a 1st round type or a guy you've used other assets to go up and get. It's just not something in their nature.

[flere-imsaho]

I believe the Pats let Tebow do one media interview on his own (with a Patriots PR person still present) during his time in training camp. People forget exactly how much of a clamp the Patriots have on the media.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I believe the Pats let Tebow do one media interview on his own (with a Patriots PR person still present) during his time in training camp. People forget exactly how much of a clamp the Patriots have on the media.

And I would expect whoever drafts Sam to do the same. In reading the article from outsports.com on the behind-the-scenes of his coming out, his agents made it pretty clear that he is going to be a football player, not an activist. He's not Jason Collins at the end of his career, where he has time to go to events and lead rallies. He is going to be fully focused on making a team and making an impact.

I'm sure he's going to be inundated by requests from documentary crews who want to follow him around all year. For his own benefit, he should say no, but if he says yes, it's perfectly within the power of his NFL team to say they can't tape him in practice and to do all the filming on his own time.

Is there really going to be that much demand, after the first week or so, by ESPN et al to be filming a second string guy running reps? I think this idea of a "circus" is going to prove highly overblown.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

I just think, by and large, those who are making these types of decisions in terms of player evaluation don't really worry much about that. If your scouting/player personnel department has a 3rd round grade on a player available in the 4th/5th, they are most likely going to trust that evaluation and grab the guy.

You have the war room with a bunch of scouts (or one if you're the Bengals), a coach or two, the GM and director of player personnel, maybe the owner etc. The general protocol seems to involve throwing out 5-6 names when it's about 10 picks away from yours, and then narrowing that down to like 3 when it's only a couple away. If it was as simple as a team targeting the best available 3-4 OLB at their next pick, I don't think they'd skip him, but if you have a handful of guys at various positions who are all regarded about equally I can easily see him being in that group of 5-6 a bunch of times and teams going with the other guy because they don't want to deal with any extra media work/distraction.

[Logan]

This is....unbelievable, even for the Browns:

Browns promoted Ray Farmer to GM, have let go of Michael Lombardi and are having Joe Banner transition out of organization in next 2 months.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) February 11, 2014

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Logan

This is....unbelievable, even for the Browns:

Browns promoted Ray Farmer to GM, have let go of Michael Lombardi and are having Joe Banner transition out of organization in next 2 months.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) February 11, 2014

[BillJasper]

I wonder if Haslem finally figured out that Chudzinski wasn't the cause of the dysfunction?

[stevew]

They deserved at least 1 more year for pulling the TRich trade rape.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Logan

This is....unbelievable, even for the Browns:

wow what a clusterf*&k of an organization

[Arles]

The Browns only had 2 picks in the top 5 rounds of the 2013 draft (1st and a 3rd) and made some decent offseason and inseason movies (adding Hoyer, trading T-Rich, Finding Rainey). I don't see any logical reason to replace the front office staff after that performance.

[flere-imsaho]

Jon Stewart sums up the NFL's reaction to Michael Sam: Jon Stewart Rips NFLers Who See Michael Sam As A "Distraction"

Worth it for the last 30 seconds alone when he puts Sam in perspective with other NFL player controversies.

[molson]

There's a big difference between actual distraction (has any player or staff come out and said that he'd be a distraction?), and being accused of being a homophobe if you ever decide to cut him, ala the Vikings. There's no real practical negative to the latter though, so hopefully there's at least some teams that would not give a shit.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Jon Stewart sums up the NFL's reaction to Michael Sam: Jon Stewart Rips NFLers Who See Michael Sam As A "Distraction"

Worth it for the last 30 seconds alone when he puts Sam in perspective with other NFL player controversies.

First thing first, I think it's a good thing.

Second, I think it was smart to announce this prior to the draft rather than afterwards, because there would be a chance to prepare whichever team for this, as opposed to dealing with it afterwards.

The circus goes away at some point.

I'm sure way back certain owner/GM/media typers thought Jackie Robinson was a distraction as well...it's a BS argument.

Let me man play on his abilities and merits and if the organization is stand-up, then if his football ability is not up to snuff and he's released so be it.

[stevew]

Like the best thing that could happen would be if he gets drafted and then someone pulls a horrible rookie prank on him. Cue mock outrage and then Sam tells the outraged to go fuck off and then we get back to watching the game and he's judged on how well he can get to the QB, cover a TE or set the edge. AKA all the shit that actually matters

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Except...the Pats cut Tebow..so they didnt have to deal with the media circus.
Not sure Donte didnt make the point for Herm.

Originally Posted by molson

So there it is, once you sign a "media circus" guy, then cutting him must OBVIOUSLY be because of the media circus. I don't think that logic follows at all, but that the perception is there. That if you sign media circus guy, you're stuck with him forever unless you want to be accused of cutting a guy for reasons besides football. With Tebow that didn't matter too much, but with a gay guy, I can see GMs worrying about that.

Maybe my statement read wrong. I do not think, nor did I intend to imply that the Pats cut Tebow so that they would not have to deal with the media circus. What I was trying to say, albeit poorly, was that they did in fact cut him and as a result didn't endure the media circus all season long.

In my original statement the "so" was a show of effect not a show causation...if that makes sense.

And to be fair, for all of his haters, Bellicheck does as good of a job with media control as anyone in the league. In fact I think the only one close is Sean Peyton..hmm what do they have in common. I have no doubt that NE could handle the Sams situation without it being an issue. Now drop him in the Bengals, Cowboys, Dolphins, Redskins or a few others and watch hilarity ensue.

I think its important to recognize that with Sams is going to come a human interest story. And while a large percentage (though Im not willing to concede a majority) of NFL'ers will over look sexual preference of a peer who can help them win games, I am not sure they will react equally as kindly to a GLBT lifestyle magazine coming into the locker room to do a story. We could have a whole new round of Lisa Olson controversy...

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think its important to recognize that with Sams is going to come a human interest story. And while a large percentage (though Im not willing to concede a majority) of NFL'ers will over look sexual preference of a peer who can help them win games, I am not sure they will react equally as kindly to a GLBT lifestyle magazine coming into the locker room to do a story. We could have a whole new round of Lisa Olson controversy...

Do you think that everyone who works in LGBT media shows up in drag or something? What do you think would occur that would drive some sort of reaction? You know that there are plenty of openly gay members of the mainstream media who cover professional sports, right?

I'm also willing to wager that some LGBT lifestyle magazine did a story on Brandon Ayanbadejo during the 2012 season and the Ravens still managed to not self-destruct before winning the Super Bowl.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Now drop him in the Bengals, Cowboys, Dolphins, Redskins or a few others and watch hilarity ensue.

Send him to Minnesota and Mike Priefer will have some great jokes ready for him.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Do you think that everyone who works in LGBT media shows up in drag or something? What do you think would occur that would drive some sort of reaction? You know that there are plenty of openly gay members of the mainstream media who cover professional sports, right?

I'm also willing to wager that some LGBT lifestyle magazine did a story on Brandon Ayanbadejo during the 2012 season and the Ravens still managed to not self-destruct before winning the Super Bowl.

Agreed. I think the theories of what may happen are going to be far beyond what will actually happen. There's going to be a few idiots making stupid comments, but for the most part, it's not going to be nearly as bad as people think it will be. And the idiots will be talked down by the media and general public in most situations.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Agreed. I think the theories of what may happen are going to be far beyond what will actually happen. There's going to be a few idiots making stupid comments, but for the most part, it's not going to be nearly as bad as people think it will be. And the idiots will be talked down by the media and general public in most situations.

After the media brings attention to their comments of course. Ask ESPN or Dan Shaughnessy - quiet acceptance doesn't make for a compelling story. Gotta keep digging until you find someone willing to say something "controversial".

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ask ESPN or Dan Shaughnessy - quiet acceptance doesn't make for a compelling story. Gotta keep digging until you find someone willing to say something "controversial".

Ding ding ding. I'm picturing them shoving a microphone in a teammate's face with stuff like "last year you never wore a towel out of the shower, but you have one on now. IS THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GAY TEAMMATE????!!!!"

Interesting story here: DeMaurice Smith rips unnamed general managers who downgraded Michael Sam - ESPN

[cartman]

[nol]

One of my favorite parts about this is how every year we have to listen to this circlejerk from NFL executives about how they're only looking for "character guys" but now, the executives get to act like their organizations consist of a bunch of Neanderthals that couldn't handle one of their teammates being gay. Which one is it?