Stellaris Game Thread

[Vince, Pt. II]

Also, to answer your question tarcone - yes, you should be able to disband your frontier outpost without a problem, gaining your +1 to influence back. Colonies do not expand your borders as far as a frontier outpost until quite a while after they are built, however, so beware of your borders receding slightly when you do it.

[tarcone]

Awesome. Thanks for the replies.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I have yet to play a game past even the mid-game, because I find myself wanting to start over and check out some other race-ethics-government-ship design combination. My favorites so far:

• Wormhole > Hyperspace > Warp Drive
• Really indecisive on the weapons, probably a slight lean toward missiles or lasers.
• Love the look of the Avian ships.
• Materialism > Individualism > Xenophilia > Militarism > Pacifism > Xenophobia > Collectivism > Spiritualism
• Despotic Hegemony or Science Directorate are my preferred forms of government.
• Traits: I really like Industrious, Intelligent, and Quick Learners.
• Negative Traits: I gravitate toward Weak (this should probably come with a Mineral Penalty; Army damage seems really insignificant in this game) and Repugnant.

I'm going to spoiler the rest, just in case people don't want to read about it. There's no actual spoilers in here, just my early game strategy thoughts.

Spoiler

As for early game strategy, it seems that minerals trump pretty much everything until you get to about +25 or +30, then I like to divert toward science. My feel so far is that energy is way too easy to manage - as long as you keep a modest surplus in the early game (seriously like +3 or +5), by the time you get to a point where you need energy you will have developed enough of a base to be able to absorb large deficits for plenty of time to develop further and dig yourself out of the deficit. Rather disappointed in the economic model so far, to be honest. I don't need anything super complex, but I hardly even have to think about it and I can balance my energy budget, and by the time I get to +40 or more in minerals, I'm earning them faster than I can spend them. I would like there to be at least SOME kind of difficulty here, be it a bit tighter an energy model or perhaps higher mineral costs as your empire grows.

I need to get better at developing the surface of my colonies before I get to the Sector stage; I have this very bad habit of colonizing then forgetting about the planet and worrying more about mining outposts. The 1 energy per outpost seems to be a pretty terrible investment unless you have a 3+ resource planet, so I usually skip the 1's and 2's unless I am in a region of space with very little in the way of resources. On the other hand, surface tiles are typically much cheaper to build initially, do not tie up a Construction ship, and end up producing more than most planets do.

For research strategies...

Engineering: Engineering is probably my least "favorite" tree in the tech game. That being said...

Betharian Refining is the way and the truth. Even one Betharian Power Plant is a huge asset, especially in the early game. Other than that I push the Spaceport and weapons upgrades as early as I can. I don't tend to lean on Armor very much, but I don't yet know if that's a good plan or not.

Physics: Physics is where all the fun stuff is. I love Shields and will attempt to get them as early as I can. I am also a fiend for sensor, drive, and power source ship upgrades. The Power Hub is a building I like to get early as well.

Society: Another busy tree with several strong options early. New World Colonization, Hazardous Tile Removal, Border Expansion, Increased Influence Gain, Unlocking additional planet types for colonization, and Fleet Expansion are all excellent options, so you're likely never left wanting for a valid tech to research. The Frontier Clinic is fantastic for establishing new colonies as well. I usually start with New World Colonization, then get the Influence Gain tech ASAP so I can pop out a few Border Outposts. After that, the border expansion and fleet expansion options when they become available, and I'm usually left waiting for the new colonization options to start popping up, so once they do they are the first things I take off the board.

To start, I pretty much invariably order up a second Science ship immediately, start construction on a power plant and/or mine on the surface of my homeworld, clear the tile blocker on the +2 energy or mineral tile that I have blocked, and send my 3 ship fleet out to find the bad guys before my science ships can follow. The fleet starts by visiting any stars within my small nation's territory to begin with. My initial science ship begins by Surveying our home system, and won't research any anomalies unless they have a less than 25% chance of failure. I should probably lower that threshold a little, but eh, live a little dangerously. Once the second science ship is finished, I will immediately recruit a new scientist to lead it, then send it off to the nearest system within my borders that doesn't have any aliens in it and start the system survey routine.

Also - scientists who get re-assigned do so immediately, and their ships do not need to move back to the planet to take over research options. If I have any Maniacal or Spark of Genius scientists, I will typically put them on the Science Ships for a short bit to get them up to ****, then as soon as they do I ship 'em back home to head up research. Rotating scientists gets them experience much faster, and should help your research in the long run.

As for where to expand...I like to get my back up against a wall as soon as possible, so I'll usually push toward the edge of the galaxy first. This expansion depends HEAVILY on what my galaxy looks like, so having a close neighbor or several hostile alien fleets early can completely change this plan.

I have not messed around with planetary governors yet, as I like having influence to spend on new leaders and edicts more than the benefits the governors seem to confer. As for Admirals, I get one as soon as my Influence comfortably allows me to; I typically fly one large fleet of ships around, at least in the early game, so one Admiral is all I need.

Speaking of fleets, I will start pumping out the Corvettes as soon as I have a few mining stations up; I don't need them immediately, but I do want to get tough enough to start taking out the Crystalline Entities, Void Clouds, and Mining Drones I run into so that I can survey their (hopefully) mineral rich systems. My initial push is to get the fleet up to 250-ish power, then I usually hold off and develop my economy more. Once I'm sitting pretty, I push to 500-ish in order to handle the stronger Crystalline guys and/or Space Amoebas that may or may not crop up.

I am still loving the hell out of this game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Excellent summary and tips, VP2!

I very much appreciate it.

I started a new game last week and seem to have finally turned the corner. At least this time out...

I am pretty far along in the game now. I have three battle ships and a ton of cruisers, destroyers, and corvettes. I think my fleet value is around 15,000.

I have my 5 core planets and 2 sectors one with 5 planets and another with 4.

I have two vassals.

Checking myself against the known aliens out there, I am better than all of them in terms of military - by far - except for one.

I focused on lasers and torpedoes and went for better military more often than not. Typically, in these games (like Civ) I advance pretty evenly. If I see a tech that's low value, I get it just to take it. Here, I didn't do that. I went for some of the bigger techs well before going after the low hanging fruit.

I haven't figured out how useful vassals are at the moment. One of them seems to do nothing, the other revolts every now and then.

[Abe Sargent]

See, for me, I'd rather fight over territory in the middle or fight claims against folks early, knowing I can move to the edge of the galaxy or something later. If I come across a enemy civ, I often march towards it if it's feasible. (like not a fallen empire or an advanced start Ai or a person with the opposite traits of mine and a real grudge to form.)

[Vince, Pt. II]

To flesh out that bit: if I have a neighbor right on my doorstep, more often than not I'm blitzing them early regardless of whether or not they have resource rich or strategically valuable systems. I just don't want to have to worry about them later.

[tarcone]

The little planet I vassalized decided to revolt. Now, they were behind me technologically. Which allowed me to make them my vassal.
When they revolted, they had a space fleet with a military power of 652. They had 7 destroyers.
I just finished researching Destroyers myself. And have no idea when I will get the opportunity to research a level 3 space port, which you need to build destroyers.

How does that happen?

Not sure if I like that or not.

And where can I see the tech tree?

[Brian Swartz]

There is no tech 'tree' per se. Also, someone can be behind you in tech overall but more advanced in a specific area or two.

[nilodor]

I'm in the middle (what I think is the middle) of the game and:

• I've colonized 14 planets
• I have two fleets, each with strength around 6.5K
• I've surveyed all the systems I have access to
• My alliance partner doesn't want to go to war with anyone (or admit anyone to the alliance)
• The people near me are all of similar strength, kinda random when comparing tech scores.

Any thoughts on what I should do?

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm sure there's a wiki somewhere that will have all of the techs that you can look at, but there is nowhere in game that will let you see anything more than your currently available options for research.

As for what you should do nilodor, I have no idea how alliances work. I'd probably make sure I had fully developed all of my systems, then flesh out my military so that I was as well-defended as possible.

[tarcone]

I figured out I should have put an army in my vassal. I am learning as I go.
I lost the war and that vassal is an empire.

I am really going to enjoy my re-start when I figure stuff out.

[tarcone]

Im up for a MP game. Anyone else?

[tarcone]

What mods do you guys use?
What are the best mods out there?

[Abe Sargent]

I have mods as simple as living me color options on various races to ones that add in stuff like adding new races. Probably the only major game impacting one I subscribed to, but have not tried out yet, is the Unlimited Potential, which gives you the ability to have edicts to add to your leader, embassies, rivalries, etc up. That's it though,

[tarcone]

There is a MP game forming with me and 2 others from a different site.
Wednesday night at 8 pm eastern.

Anyone interested?

[SirFozzie]

count me as a possible.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I am unfortunately buried this week, or I'd be in. Would be interesting to try an MP game.

[Thomkal]

Some major changes to diplomacy lie ahead in the Asimov 1.2 patch:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...sies.947827%2F

[tarcone]

Game still on tonight.

Anyone know how MP works?

[chesapeake]

I'd be interested in giving MP a try, but I probably can't be on before 9:30. If it is possible to join a game already underway, I'd be willing to try, even accepting the fact that I'd likely be playing at a big disadvantage since others would have a head start.

[tarcone]

Yes you can join a game in progress.

[tarcone]

Game is setup

GameboxLeague

password- Caseblue

[chesapeake]

Just logged in but can't seem to find anything called GameboxLeague

[tarcone]

Yeah. It was under usrlocal

Sorry. It got changed at game time.

Still can get in when we re-start, if interested.

I had a hard time getting in and started a little late.

[Edward64]

Just started playing last weekend and plan to spend more time on it this weekend.

Appreciate any tips you guys can provide for the early game.

[Brian Swartz]

For the early game, you want to get minerals. And then get minerals. When you're done with that, get more minerals. Have I mentioned minerals yet? :P

In all seriousness, minerals fuel expansion because you need to be able to build things in a reasonable timeframe. A second science ship quickly is a good idea to survey faster so you know where to build, and don't be afraid to leave anomalies with a high-ish failure risk alone for a while. Keep your home planet with a decent food surplus, buildings should come just fast enough so you never have any unemployed pops, just enough energy for what you need to run everything, and the faster minerals go up the faster you can expand. Colonize a good planet or two nearby when you can, but don't go crazy with it -- they take time to get going, it's a reasonably long-term investment.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Brian's got a pretty good write-up there. Don't overlook the buildings on the surface of your home planet and your colonies when you start building them up - they will typically be cheaper than a mining station on a planet, and will also have a better return than most.

[Edward64]

I remember running out/low of influence.

I read a way to increase influence is to declare rivalries. Does this work pretty well?

[Brian Swartz]

That depends on the situation. Influence is something that you have to ration. You can't spend it on everything you want to do, or even half of what you want to do. Must prioritize. Rivalries are a double-edged sword. To have a decent return the rival must be close to or above your level, which means it's at least a little dangerous to do it because it lowers relations. Rivaling someone you aren't prepared to go to war with if needed is risky.

I generally try to keep a +2 influence monthly. If that means I have to turn off an edict, or not build a frontier outpost I'd like, etc. then that's what it means. Esp. at the very beginning, when you need to recruit at least a scientist or two for the survey ships, you won't have a ton of it.

[Vince, Pt. II]

As you get further into the tech tree, you begin unlocking techs that will grant you +1 influence per month. They become extremely important when you have a few Border Outposts out there.

Also, do not be afraid to dismantle said outposts once you have colonies pushing your borders out; they are utterly useless unless they are expanding your borders.

[tarcone]

Another thing about rivalries.
If there is a an alien between you and them, its good to make them your rival. Races cannot go through any borders without a treaty.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Another thing about rivalries.
If there is a an alien between you and them, its good to make them your rival. Races cannot go through any borders without a treaty.

Keep in mind once the new patch comes out they are making open borders with everyone (except rivals) the default, unless you spend influence (I think?) to close them.

[tarcone]

Yes. I read that. And what an improvement.
In our MP game, there is a habitable planet within my neighbors borders. But I cant get to it to colonize.

Bah.

[Brian Swartz]

Asimov is here:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...eports.953141/

Diplomacy, system graphics, slave factions & rebellions, sector improvements, fleet combat behaviors for better battles, etc. The diplomatic stuff needs more tweaking but another fairly hefty set of changes that overall definitely improve the game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess what I don't get (among other things) is the incredible autonomy that's given to the sectors. They really don't seem to be parts of your empire, more like ... tributary states, or something. Not quite vassals even.

I could understand, in theory at least, some kind of system where you issued specific orders & they followed them (or didn't) to some varying degree. But it seems they go far more simplified than that, simply forcing you to use sectors & forcing you to let them do as they will far too often.

Just seems like an incredibly bad design decision, in a game that steadily underwhelms me the more I see/hear.

edit: re: bad design decision -- I mean, is there really some huge contingent of existing (or untapped) players out there thinking "gosh, if only we had less control over what is supposed to be our territory"? Just seems like an approach destined to piss off more players than it pleases.

[cuervo72]

It does seem to be a curious decision. I can only imagine the reasoning was:

1. Minimize the need to micromanage. But...you're playing a Paradox game. Kinda what you sign up for. And if you didn't really want to micromanage, then optionally use sectors.

2. Hamper the player by forcing the AI on them to goober things up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

2. Hamper the player by forcing the AI on them to goober things up.

This notion has crossed my mind more than once with this one.

Kind of a "gotcha" vibe about it.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGa

They really don't seem to be parts of your empire, more like ... tributary states, or something. Not quite vassals even.

There's more control with sectors than with vassals in any game I ever played. I get the point you are making, I just think you are overstating it.

Originally Posted by cuervo72

1. Minimize the need to micromanage. But...you're playing a Paradox game. Kinda what you sign up for.

I don't think micromanage = Paradox Game. In many ways its the opposite. Matrix Game? Sure. But there's a reason why Paradox games don't have tactical combat. They shine(or don't, but it's where the focus is) on the grand strategic level. In a standard galaxy, to 'win', you need a minority of all planets which is over 200 of them.

Originally Posted by cuervo72

2. Hamper the player by forcing the AI on them to goober things up.

I think this is part of the purpose and it's an important element that should be present in all large-scale strategy games. No AI will ever be as good as a competent player, as previously talked about.

There's plenty of stuff to complain about. I think more macro tools as the game goes on are needed. Rally points and fleet/ground force templates to streamline construction, ability to designate an entire area of space to survey instead of doing it system-by-system when you've explored hundreds of them, technological advancement is too linear, more differentiation between races, leader system could be more developed, etc. But I think the level of control you have in sectors is roughly appropriate. Spaceports/fleet/army construction is still under your control, taxes, focus for development, etc. Management of the many is different from management of the few, and I think Stellaris should have more features that reflect that, not less. In other words, I think it's a great design choice, among others that in some cases are not.

.02

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think the enslaving-their-own option given to sector governors -- without a simple, easy override -- is quite possibly the most absurd "design choice" I've seen in a game in a long time.

Like, Mass Effect 3 (original) ending kind of bad.

It's not only absurd, it completely breaks any & all notion that you control an empire. You're little more than a sector yourself at that point frankly, a faux emperor that has governors running about willy nilly doing as they please. You're, effectively, not much more than a mere sector yourself.

Whoever came up with that idea ought to be hung, slowly & inefficiently but quite thoroughly, anyone who greenlighted it should be on the unemployment line.

.03

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You're, effectively, not much more than a mere sector yourself.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but this simply factually not true. Sectors:

** Have zero control over the military aside from building spaceports(and you can upgrade/build those yourself if you want)
** Have no input whatsoever on what you research
** Do not control colonization at all
** Do not control survey efforts at all
** Cannot implement policies or edicts differing from their 'imperial overlords'
** Must contribute resources to the empire at a rate you designate, and have their development dicated by what the empire designates
** Have jack diddly squat to say about any aspect of foreign policy/diplomacy/wars/trades/rivalries/etc.
** Must accept you adding/removing systems, changing their borders and therefore economic balance at your whim

Even with the sectors at their worst, there is simply no comparison between them and the 'imperial' government. They aren't remotely similar. They have zero, zilch, nada input on most aspects of the game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

** Cannot implement policies or edicts differing from their 'imperial overlords'

How does that jibe with the aforementioned slavery policy then? In our sample game, we clearly have a distinct intent ... one that the sector has been allowed to subjigate to their own quirky variant.

Eh, in the end, it matters naught. Those who bought it can deal with it, not my problem.

I'm just saying that from what I've seen described (both in detail in the sample game and other issues more generally discussed here), you couldn't give me this one for free. And it has made me even more wary of anything from the developer in the future, this looks like cheap hamstringing of the player to cover the AI, with a lack of control that's outright insulting. A true "fuck Paradox then" kind of insult afaic.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGa

How does that jibe with the aforementioned slavery policy then? In our sample game, we clearly have a distinct intent ... one that the sector has been allowed to subjigate to their own quirky variant.

That's basically an ethos situation. As Collectivists we can't set an imperial policy to enslave only aliens. Only Xenophobes can do that -- as a non-Xenophobic race we place all species on a relatively equal playing field by definition. As mentioned, one can certainly argue that it's a bad design decision to have such a thing be dependent on ethos -- though I'd likely counter that it's at least defensible since there need to be things that aren't simply X% bonuses to production or whatever.

I'm not telling you not to hate the game. Lots of people don't like things that I like. I'm just trying to clarify, particularly for the benefit of others reading this, the reality of the situation. Things not specifically defined in edicts/policies or the sector options(taxes, focus, development options) are things that you have to live with variance on due to the reduced control on the 'outlying territories'. Can the balance on those things be improved? Sure. But I think it's good that some frankly pretty limited restrictions are there.

[Abe Sargent]

Plus you can just mod away the need for sectors. Grab a mod that let's you run 15 or 50 or 200 systems yourself and move on.

[Thomkal]

Stellaris - Plantoids Species Pack Teaser Trailer - YouTube

[nilodor]

I'm hoping that this game gets some different victory conditions because the ones they have now are just an absolute slog.

[dzilla77]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Stellaris - Plantoids Species Pack Teaser Trailer - YouTube

Galactic Vegans Unite!

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Stellaris - Plantoids Species Pack Teaser Trailer - YouTube

It's live now

[tarcone]

While very cool looking, $8 for it is excessive. I will wait until it is on sale or in a bundle.

[bhlloy]

8 dollars for what is essentially cosmetic art?! Paradox really are ridiculous, but you will be able to get it for pennies as part of a sale or set eventually

Has anyone played with the Star Trek mod floating about the place? Looks promising from what I have read and may be the interest point I need to get back into this game.

[Critch]

I thought $8 was excessive too, but the one that looks like a space radish has won me over.