2011-2012 NHL Off-Season Thread

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Cam Barker gets 1 yr/2.25 mil with the Oil.

He always killed in EHM.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Philly making room for Kovalev

No Brad Richards.

And I think Leino was over paid. Glad the Flyers didn't pay it.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

@capgeek CapGeek
The #Capitals have the No. 1 payroll in the #NHL at $62.2m, about $2 million away from the cap with RFAs Alzner, Brouwer to sign.

Poti is at 3.5 mil and he'll either be LTIR or retired before the season starts. I don't know if 5.5 is enough for Alzner and Brouwer, but they are in better shape than it would appear.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

No Brad Richards.

And I think Leino was over paid. Glad the Flyers didn't pay it.

I get it's only looking at 1 season, and taking into account one guy signed just before UFA started and the other guy was on the market, but...

Leino 81gp 19g 34a 53p +14 22PIM 5PPG 16:00TOI 2:18PPTOI :44SHTOI 35HITS 40BLKS 37GvA 39 TkA

Kennedy 80gp 21g 24a 45p +1 37PIM 7PPG 14:31TOI 1:52PPTOI
:02SHTOI 95HITS 23BLKS 23GvA 25 TkA

How the hell is Leino worth 3X what Kennedy is...at 3X the term?

[Suburban Rhythm]

DOLA

What really sucks...I am finding it hard to hate Philly right now.

Outside of Pronger, who is funny alot of the times and has toned down his stickwork immensely, and Hartnell, who is just a big goofball, I can't point at that roster and say I hate anyone.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

DOLA

What really sucks...I am finding it hard to hate Philly right now.

Outside of Pronger, who is funny alot of the times and has toned down his stickwork immensely, and Hartnell, who is just a big goofball, I can't point at that roster and say I hate anyone.

You aren't the first Penguins fan who has said that to me in the last week and a half.

[Galaxy]

Leino will be playing center in Buffalo. He was the second choice if Richards didn't sign (who sounds like he's basically a Ranger at this point.)

I don't really understand the concept of being who is being overpaid anymore with all the contracts that are being handed out this off-season.

[bhlloy]

Seems like the NHL is coming dangerously close to becoming an NBA lite where you get a shitty player making a bunch of money because of circumstance and we've all seen this week where that has got the NBA. The NHL doesn't have the kind of base or revenue to be doing this.

Might as well contract or move Florida now as well. They are going to be consistently signing crappy players to make the salary floor until eternity hits because nobody wants to play there. Horrible situation.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Seems like the NHL is coming dangerously close to becoming an NBA lite where you get a shitty player making a bunch of money because of circumstance and we've all seen this week where that has got the NBA. The NHL doesn't have the kind of base or revenue to be doing this.

Might as well contract or move Florida now as well. They are going to be consistently signing crappy players to make the salary floor until eternity hits because nobody wants to play there. Horrible situation.

Contract Florida and Phoenix. 28 teams, 4 divisions of 7 also fits nicely into the re-alignment idea.

Dispersal draft which, with Uncle Gary's help, will be rigged for the Penguins (again), who take Shane Doan for their hole at RW.

[Dr. Sak]

Russostrib: Ehrhoff makes $1.3 million more than Sidney Crosby next year. These next labor talks should be a doozy

Carcillo signs with the Blackhawks.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Russostrib: Ehrhoff makes $1.3 million more than Sidney Crosby next year. These next labor talks should be a doozy

Carcillo signs with the Blackhawks.

I still can't believe Steve Montador got a 4-year deal that pays him $2.75 million.

It's amazing what a new owner will do. The older owner was about breaking even, the new owner is about breaking the bank. I guess when you got $3 billion in the bank from the sale of your company, along with a passion for the team, money isn't much of a concern. The next contract to watch will be D Tyler Myers.

[johnnyshaka]

Oilers were very active today and I think they did a pretty solid job shoring up a few areas of concern.

Eric Belanger is somebody we needed ever since Stoll was dealt...somebody other than Horcoff who can win faceoffs and kill penalties.

Eager provides some 4th line grit and toughness but can also play much, much better than Stortini and MacIntyre. He can also kill penalties. Hordichuk definitely can stir the pot and hold his own and at least play a little. Again, better than MacIntyre.

Barker and Sutton add some depth to probably the worst defense in the league. At the same time we move Foster who is a gentle giant afraid to touch anybody in front of the net. Had Foster been scoring on the PP then I wouldn't have an issue with his terrible defensive play but he didn't anything productive on the ice.

Sutton should be an improvement on Foster in the 3rd pairing and should do wonders for the PK. He's also a tough as nails guy who will be around to keep the kids upright.

Barker was, once upon a time, a top end D but has lost his way. Change of scenery and less pressure (Oilers still won't be a playoff team) could get him right again...or not. Minimal investment with pretty good upside...I'll take it.

The Oilers definitely have a deal or two to make before the summer's done in that they have too many forwards at the moment. Guys like Brule, Cogliano, Gagne, Omark, and maybe even Hemsky are probably nervous whenever their phones buzz. They still need to find another top 4 D-man and they likely deal a few of those guys and a prospect to do it. Then they have to figure out what's going on in nets...as they need to decide who's starting and also find somebody to play in OKC who can come up when Khabby goes to jail or gets hurt...or both.

Love that there will be competition in camp for starting jobs...among real NHLers, not rookies and AHLers!!

[bbor]

YES!

The Leafs did nothing stupid today!!

Now if Richards would only sign that mega deal in NYR i"d be happy.Keep him away from the Leafs!

Kinda sad to see Timmy Brent go.....but guys like him are a dime a dozen.....hope he plays well for Maurice in Carolina.

[bbor]

BTW...Leino may be the worst deal of the day....6 years? really?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

DOLA

What really sucks...I am finding it hard to hate Philly right now.

Outside of Pronger, who is funny alot of the times and has toned down his stickwork immensely, and Hartnell, who is just a big goofball, I can't point at that roster and say I hate anyone.

Ironic, with the signing of Jagr I am finding it more difficult to like them now...

What's the word on Stamkos? He resigning with Tampa?

[RomaGoth]

Easily the best signing of the day

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

DOLA

What really sucks...I am finding it hard to hate Philly right now.

Outside of Pronger, who is funny alot of the times and has toned down his stickwork immensely, and Hartnell, who is just a big goofball, I can't point at that roster and say I hate anyone.

I just can't bring myself to like Mikael Renberg.....

[RomaGoth]

Triple Dola

Good article about the Wings NOT overspending this FA period

I love the last paragraph from Wisniewski:

Wisniewski on the WingsSpeaking of money, Canton's James Wisniewski signed a six-year deal with Columbus valued at $5.5 million a season. The Red Wings were interested, but not at that price or that term.
"For me, knowing Detroit's history they don't really pay the market value for a defenseman or any player,'' Wisniewski said on NHL Live. "So I didn't think that was going to be a fit for myself.
"Being in Columbus, it's three hours away. It's close enough for family to come but yet far enough to keep them away.''

Yeah, James. The Wings don't pay market value for anyone. Except some guy named Datsyuk. And another guy called Zetterberg. Oh, and some 7-time Norris Trophy winner named Lidstrom.

What an asshat. So I guess the market value for an overrated, underachieving, inconsistent d-man is $5.5 mil/season? Enjoy your time watching the Wings win more division titles while you are out golfing jackass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Eager provides some 4th line grit and toughness but can also play much, much better than Stortini and MacIntyre. He can also kill penalties. Hordichuk definitely can stir the pot and hold his own and at least play a little. Again, better than MacIntyre.

I couldn't help but notice that's two former Thrashers you're counting on for help. Not a good sign but then I noticed the real kicker.

Sutton should be an improvement on Foster

When did Foster die? Because that's the only way Andy Sutton is an improvement over anybody ... and even that's not a guarantee, since there are quite a few zombies who are both faster and in position more often. You'd be better off with Don Sutton and I'm not even sure he knows how to skate.

[Dr. Sak]

Yesterday I equated Jagr signing with the Flyers to Hulk Hogan turning heel and joining the NWO as Hollywood Hogan. Another friend of mine asked me when Eric Bischoff became the GM of the Flyers...this post sums it up best...

Feel the Hate | TPB

[Suburban Rhythm]

This will be my all encompassing question post:

PING Galaxy, Chubby, etc:
Is Kotalik going to be bought out?
Per Capgeek, Sabres have $1.3M to spend, with only 19 guys signed.

PING Logan
What are the Rangers doing with all that space?
I know Dubinsky and Callahan need deals, and Richards will end up there, but they've got $22M in space...and 4 D

PING JPhillips (and HiFi)
Outside of Poti to LTIR, are there other moves coming? Alzner and Brouwer still need deals. And how do you replace Tyler Sloan?

And in general...

Florida (I don't think we have a Panthers fan here)...what the hell.

Tomas Kopecky 4 years/$12M
Jose Theodore 2 years/$3M
Scottie Upshall 4 years/$14M NMC
Ed Jovonovski 4 years/$16.5M 35+
Marcel Goc 3 years/$5.1M
Tomas Fleischmann 4 years/$18M
Sean Bergenheim 4 years/$11M

And trades
Kris Versteeg 1 year remaining/$3.083M
Brian Campbell 5 years remaining/$7.142M

When you need to do all of that...overpay about 4-5 guys buy $1M+ per year, just to reach the cap floor...time to contract.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Yesterday I equated Jagr signing with the Flyers to Hulk Hogan turning heel and joining the NWO as Hollywood Hogan. Another friend of mine asked me when Eric Bischoff became the GM of the Flyers...this post sums it up best...

Feel the Hate | TPB

Jagr will get booed. No doubt. It's been happening for 10 years already.

I don't think Talbot does. Most rational yinzers (oxymoron?) can separate the business side from the fan side, at least for a couple minutes, to realize they would do the same thing in Talbot's position.

Rumor is Shero offered him a "Dupuis" contract: 3 years @ $1.3M. He's made $1.05M the last 2 seasons. He turned it down (the money subsequently went to Dupuis, 2 years @ $1.5M).

Like I said earlier in the thread, he is what he is: 4th liner, nice PKer, fan favorite, locker room guy. The guy has 10 goals combined the last 2 seasons. Outside of ridiculous run in Cup season, and scoring both goals in game 7, and being famous for having Carcillo toss him around, he's never really done anything. 5 years @ $1.8 is realistically $.5-.75 too much a year for about 2-3 years. But that's free agency.

I think the Jagr thing is because of what he said, and is saying (through Svboda) now. The "I owe my career to Lemieux more than anyone outside of my parents", "I'd play for the league minimum for him", and "his heart is in Pittsburgh." And since the signing "He felt it gave him the best chance to succeed."

Maybe I'm a homer, but playing with one of Crosby or Malkin (my bet was Malkin) OR playing with Giroux or Briere (or I guess Brad Richards possibly). Call me a homer, but I just can't see Philly as a better option to succeed.

I don't hate the guy, and think he's still going to be solid. 20-25g/30+a/somwhere between 50-60 points.

Just wish at the start he would have said "I want to come back to the NHL for another season AND get paid"

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

This will be my all encompassing question post:

PING Galaxy, Chubby, etc:
Is Kotalik going to be bought out?
Per Capgeek, Sabres have $1.3M to spend, with only 19 guys signed.

PING Logan
What are the Rangers doing with all that space?
I know Dubinsky and Callahan need deals, and Richards will end up there, but they've got $22M in space...and 4 D

PING JPhillips (and HiFi)
Outside of Poti to LTIR, are there other moves coming? Alzner and Brouwer still need deals. And how do you replace Tyler Sloan?

And in general...

Florida (I don't think we have a Panthers fan here)...what the hell.

Tomas Kopecky 4 years/$12M
Jose Theodore 2 years/$3M
Scottie Upshall 4 years/$14M NMC
Ed Jovonovski 4 years/$16.5M 35+
Marcel Goc 3 years/$5.1M
Tomas Fleischmann 4 years/$18M
Sean Bergenheim 4 years/$11M

And trades
Kris Versteeg 1 year remaining/$3.083M
Brian Campbell 5 years remaining/$7.142M

When you need to do all of that...overpay about 4-5 guys buy $1M+ per year, just to reach the cap floor...time to contract.

Rumblings are no, he (Kotalik) won't be bought out. He will most likely be hidden in the AHL or dealt (less likely) so he won't count against out cap.

The sabres have been mentioning a LOT about how they can go 10% over the cap up until the season starts. I fully expect them to do this to sign the RFA D-men and then either move salary or hide it in the minors (Kotalik). I do not expect them to resign any of their other UFA forwards (YAY!!!!). I expect them to resign all of their RFA D-men and Enroth. As much as the fanbase is clamoring for a Myers extension now, I think they are planning to use the salaries that come off the books at the end of season towards Myers' extension.

They are still paying for the mistakes of Golisano and Darcy (yes Vanek should be getting paid a lot, but they paid too much too soon because they let him get offer sheeted) so it will take a while to get out from under it.

To those saying Leino is overpaid, yeah, maybe. But would I rather have him at 4.5 or Connolly at 4.5 (which was his cap hit the last 2 years)? Leino without a doubt.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

PING Logan
What are the Rangers doing with all that space?
I know Dubinsky and Callahan need deals, and Richards will end up there, but they've got $22M in space...and 4 D

The defense is pretty much set. They might bring in a vet to compete with Eminger to for that 6/7 slot but otherwise it's Staal-Girardi/McDonaugh-Sauer/Erixon and then Del Zotto or a couple other kids. Erixon's contract doesn't count against the summer cap.

Beyond that, Richards plus the raises for those guys and others like Anisimov/Boyle will take care of much of the space. They'll also likely try to make a deal for a top 6 LW.

[DeToxRox]

DarrenDreger Darren Dreger
9 years at $6.5 AaV for Richards and Rangers.

[Dr. Sak]

Richards to the Rangers 9 years 58.5 mil NMC

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Maybe I'm a homer, but playing with one of Crosby or Malkin (my bet was Malkin) OR playing with Giroux or Briere (or I guess Brad Richards possibly). Call me a homer, but I just can't see Philly as a better option to succeed.

I agree with you on this point but what if he didn't want to play second fiddle to Crosby and Malkin. With Richards and Carter gone in Philly, Jagr can assume that spot light.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I couldn't help but notice that's two former Thrashers you're counting on for help. Not a good sign but then I noticed the real kicker.

When did Foster die? Because that's the only way Andy Sutton is an improvement over anybody ... and even that's not a guarantee, since there are quite a few zombies who are both faster and in position more often. You'd be better off with Don Sutton and I'm not even sure he knows how to skate.

Context is important here...we're talking about the 30th place Oilers...TWO YEARS RUNNING...it isn't very hard to improve on this team.

We've been a small, soft team for several years and the additions made yesterday instantly change that. We'll still have some growing pains but teams aren't going to be strolling into Rexall Place with the "let's go for a nice afternoon skate" attitude anymore.

Foster was brought in here last season to essentially replace Souray on the PP and to play top 4 minutes. He failed miserably at both. He eventually got replaced on the PP by a rookie LW! And he got dumped back to the bottom pairing and got passed by a rookie. Slow, couldn't hit the net, and very, very soft...no thanks. At least Sutton will hit somebody, and hard. Put him in the 3rd pairing with a puck mover and he'll be fine.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

This will be my all encompassing question post:

PING Galaxy, Chubby, etc:
Is Kotalik going to be bought out?
Per Capgeek, Sabres have $1.3M to spend, with only 19 guys signed.

They said Kotalik will compete for a job. But he will likely be sent down to Rochester (along with Morrison likely) now that the new owner is willing to eat the salary. Wasn't Friday the deadline to buy-out?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I agree with you on this point but what if he didn't want to play second fiddle to Crosby and Malkin. With Richards and Carter gone in Philly, Jagr can assume that spot light.

This

It was tossed out there a couple days ago that he still needs to be "the man". The money doesn't hurt.

So that's what I don't get. The money wasn't right, the status wasn't right...why even include Pittsburgh in the options? Had he just said I want to play in the NHL again, (most) Pittsburghers would have looked at it no differently than him going from Washington to NYR.

[JPhillips]

I would expect the Caps to make more moves. Leonsis has been clear that the team will be active in FA signings and trades this summer. They're obviously focused on the bottom two lines right now, but it wouldn't be a shock to see Semin traded for a quality second center with a lower cap hit. Semin can be maddeningly inconsistent, but I don't know where they replace that offense. That may seem like a minor concern with all the firepower on the team, but after their change in play in December the Caps were an average offensive team at best.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

This

It was tossed out there a couple days ago that he still needs to be "the man". The money doesn't hurt.

So that's what I don't get. The money wasn't right, the status wasn't right...why even include Pittsburgh in the options? Had he just said I want to play in the NHL again, (most) Pittsburghers would have looked at it no differently than him going from Washington to NYR.

Two words...Drama Queen

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Context is important here...we're talking about the 30th place Oilers...TWO YEARS RUNNING...it isn't very hard to improve on this team.

We've been a small, soft team for several years and the additions made yesterday instantly change that. We'll still have some growing pains but teams aren't going to be strolling into Rexall Place with the "let's go for a nice afternoon skate" attitude anymore.

Foster was brought in here last season to essentially replace Souray on the PP and to play top 4 minutes. He failed miserably at both. He eventually got replaced on the PP by a rookie LW! And he got dumped back to the bottom pairing and got passed by a rookie. Slow, couldn't hit the net, and very, very soft...no thanks. At least Sutton will hit somebody, and hard. Put him in the 3rd pairing with a puck mover and he'll be fine.

Sutton is a complete bum, he doesn't have the speed to do anything except take terrible penalties and get burned repeatedly by anybody who can skate in a straight line. Sounds like we swapped shitty players, but if you are expecting Sutton to be fine you are in dream land.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Sutton is a complete bum, he doesn't have the speed to do anything except take terrible penalties and get burned repeatedly by anybody who can skate in a straight line. Sounds like we swapped shitty players, but if you are expecting Sutton to be fine you are in dream land.

This.

The only thing Sutton can hit consistently is something moving even slower than he is ... like a wall.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by bbor

YES!

The Leafs did nothing stupid today!!

Besides giving Tim Connolly a two-year, $9.5 million deal today. Makes me feel 100% times better about the Sabres giving Leino the $4.5 million a year contract he got if Toronto is paying the Tin Man $4.75 million each season; and the fact that a division rival is giving him that is icing on the cake.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Wings get Ian White 2 years $2.875M per

Kings get Simon Gagne 2 years $3.5M per

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

And in general...

Florida (I don't think we have a Panthers fan here)...what the hell.

Tomas Kopecky 4 years/$12M
Jose Theodore 2 years/$3M
Scottie Upshall 4 years/$14M NMC
Ed Jovonovski 4 years/$16.5M 35+
Marcel Goc 3 years/$5.1M
Tomas Fleischmann 4 years/$18M
Sean Bergenheim 4 years/$11M

And trades
Kris Versteeg 1 year remaining/$3.083M
Brian Campbell 5 years remaining/$7.142M

When you need to do all of that...overpay about 4-5 guys buy $1M+ per year, just to reach the cap floor...time to contract.

Look, just because I don't speak up much in the thread doesn't mean you can dismiss me that way, okay?

As to the rest of it, though, I think it's more along the lines of the Panthers catching lightning in a bottle one year and then management being horribly clueless as far as what to do about it in subsequent years.

Tallon is no Scotty Bowman, but he's not clueless, either. I think he'll have the Panthers in the playoffs within a year or two, and then we get to see how effective he is at signing players because they want to go to Sunrise instead of "well, they're offering $1m+ more than anybody else is."

[Suburban Rhythm]

» Jagr: ‘Just because somebody is (telling) you they want you to go there, that doesn’t mean that’s where you have to go.’ - Chipped Ice

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Look, just because I don't speak up much in the thread doesn't mean you can dismiss me that way, okay?

Apologizes...I never met a real, live Panthers fan!

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Apologizes...I never met a real, live Panthers fan!

I've never met the Pope, either, but I'm pretty sure he's out there somewhere!

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I've never met the Pope, either, but I'm pretty sure he's out there somewhere!

Photoshopped!

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I would expect the Caps to make more moves. Leonsis has been clear that the team will be active in FA signings and trades this summer. They're obviously focused on the bottom two lines right now, but it wouldn't be a shock to see Semin traded for a quality second center with a lower cap hit. Semin can be maddeningly inconsistent, but I don't know where they replace that offense. That may seem like a minor concern with all the firepower on the team, but after their change in play in December the Caps were an average offensive team at best.

Just signed Tomas Voukoun 1 year for $1.5M which is an insane deal for them.

But now they are at the cap, still without Alzner and Brouwer.
Someone should swoop in now and offersheet Alzner at like $3.5M

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Just signed Tomas Voukoun 1 year for $1.5M which is an insane deal for them.

But now they are at the cap, still without Alzner and Brouwer.
Someone should swoop in now and offersheet Alzner at like $3.5M

Wouldn't shock me to see the Panthers do just that.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Wings get Ian White 2 years $2.875M per

Not sure why Kenny is paying these 6th d-men so damn much, but I guess he knows what he is doing. At least it is only a 2-year deal. I still think Ericsson is waaaaaay overpaid now.

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Kings get Simon Gagne 2 years $3.5M per

The Kings are going for the "Flyers West" approach I guess....

[Wolfpack]

It's been interesting to see pundit reviews being generally positive with how Carolina's been doing so far. Mostly, I think it's come down to the fact that Carolina didn't try to insanely overspend on anyone even as they needed to make the salary floor. They got most of their own UFAs resigned, aside from Cole (who was apparently asking for far too much based on what Montreal laid out for him--for that kind of cash, I was more than happy to see him walk myself, fan favorite or no, salary floor or no). They got their backup to Ward in Boucher. They picked up a needed fourth-line guy in Brent, and picked up a couple of reclamations on the cheap in Ponikarovsky and today's signing of Anthony Stewart (cue JIMGA's criticism of him as a former Thrasher).

No big signings or anything there, but it's Carolina. The next big multi-million-dollar UFA to come here will be in rare company in the current franchise's history (and that doesn't include Karmanos trying to pee in Ilitch's cornflakes back in the late 90s by getting Federov to agree to an offer sheet and forcing Ilitch to match).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Not sure why Kenny is paying these 6th d-men so damn much, but I guess he knows what he is doing. At least it is only a 2-year deal. I still think Ericsson is waaaaaay overpaid now.

White isn't a #6. Offensively, he can replace Rafalski's numbers.

On a team that plays puck posession and has guys who like to come back and help on D, he's fine in the top 4. Way better than Ericsson.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

White isn't a #6. Offensively, he can replace Rafalski's numbers.

On a team that plays puck posession and has guys who like to come back and help on D, he's fine in the top 4. Way better than Ericsson.

While I can appreciate what you are saying, why is he on his 5th team already? There must be something to that....

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

...today's signing of Anthony Stewart (cue JIMGA's criticism of him as a former Thrasher).

Eh, as I recall Stewart he was fine for what he was. There were plenty of steaming piles of thoroughly untalented crap that wore the uniform, he wasn't really one of those.

[Draft Dodger]

that Vokoun deal makes the Avs look really, really stupid

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

While I can appreciate what you are saying, why is he on his 5th team already? There must be something to that....

Wiz is going on his 5th team already and he got how much?