Shooting at Connecticut School

[BillJasper]

Pretty hard sitting down and explaining what happened to my five-year old son who is in kindergarten.

I told him sometimes bad people do bad things for no reason. Then we sat and looked at the pictures of the people who died and I read what was said about them to him.

Wasn't sure if I should talk to him about it, but I didn't want him hearing things and not understanding what had happened.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Pretty hard sitting down and explaining what happened to my five-year old son who is in kindergarten.

FWIW, my son was about 3 1/2 (a very aware and astute 3.5) on 9/11. Trying to decide what/how much and then figuring out how, that's tough stuff.

You do the best you can, that's all you can do.

[DougW]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Pretty hard sitting down and explaining what happened to my five-year old son who is in kindergarten.

I told him sometimes bad people do bad things for no reason. Then we sat and looked at the pictures of the people who died and I read what was said about them to him.

Wasn't sure if I should talk to him about it, but I didn't want him hearing things and not understanding what had happened.

Just did the same thing. But without the pictures.

Then, he asked me .. "Can we go see them ?". He doesn't quite grasp death yet, but I explained it a little more. He then said .. "OK, let's never go there daddy".

On another note, his school sent a note home in his folder outlining their "commitment to security, and safety of our children". It gave us some details of some of their procedures and precautions.

[molson]

So the "I am Adam Lanza's Mother" lady and her son live right here in Boise. I'm sure there's kids like that in every town, at every school, but still, local parents have to be less than psyched about that. What would you do if you knew that kid went to your child's school?

[Noop]

This guy was not mentally ill.

He knew full well what he was doing.

[RedKingGold]

I didn't know they tought psyche courses at legal school now. :-D

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Noop

This guy was not mentally ill.

He knew full well what he was doing.

I don't know what the medical or legal definition is but this guy was obviously sick. Killing parents happens, killing young kids takes a special "sickness".

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't know what the medical or legal definition is but this guy was obviously sick. Killing parents happens, killing young kids takes a special "sickness".

He was f_cking crazy.

[Groundhog]

If I ever have kids, I am very thankful that if some jackass wants to go down and cause trouble at a school down here, he wont have an assault rifle to do it with.

[Noop]

Is anyone bothered by seeing the family of the victims making rounds on the talk shows? Or am I mentally ill for wondering that?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by molson

So the "I am Adam Lanza's Mother" lady and her son live right here in Boise. I'm sure there's kids like that in every town, at every school, but still, local parents have to be less than psyched about that. What would you do if you knew that kid went to your child's school?

Perhaps use this opportunity to review what you're doing as a parent to keep your kid(s) safe, and what you're teaching your kid(s) so that they can be as safe as possible when they aren't in your presence. Past that, IMO, you don't do anything.

I feel like I went through the same general exercise when I was married and my wife found the online sex offender registry and started to obsessively search through it in our area. You want to use that as a reminder that the world can be scary and evaluate the things you're teaching your kids, fine. Too much past that and you'll go crazy with worry yourself, or risk becoming an oppressive parent that isn't allowing your child to grow up and experience things in life.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by molson

So the "I am Adam Lanza's Mother" lady and her son live right here in Boise. I'm sure there's kids like that in every town, at every school, but still, local parents have to be less than psyched about that. What would you do if you knew that kid went to your child's school?

Which is why I think that the mental health policy angle is going to be the more difficult discussion (and why fewer people want to tackle it). The gun control debate feels cartoonish, showy, and ultimately inconclusive where positions won't move so nothing will change.

The mental health policy issues have a lot of nuance to them, and the nuances can be grasped by more Americans. Not only are mental-health diagnoses, especially in children, more talked about; many of the issues mirror general health policy and privacy issues already at the fore. To think of a few:

- If we want comprehensive mental health coverage, how are we going to pay for it?
- If policy or public sentiment changes, how will a mental health diagnosis impact me or my children from a patient privacy perspective? Will there be more or less social stigma? A loss in earnings potential above and beyond what is brought by the condition itself?
- If there will be wholesale policy changes and a potential return to involuntary commitment, what will the threshold for "danger to society" be? What are the implications to the country from a cost perspective? What are the implications to the mentally ill (especially for those on the cusp of such a threshold) from a rights perspective?
- Etc.

The nuances remind me of Ronald Reagan's oft-cited decision to "close down the mental hospitals and let them run loose on the streets". Whereas there is much truth to Reagan's desire to cut social/health program expenditures, in often heartbreaking ways; also remember that this decision had a lot of support from the patients-rights community who objected to a lot of the forced/involuntary commitment policies that were in place at the time.

[molson]

We don't know if Lanza would have qualified for this, but CT is one of six states without an assisted outpatient treatment law - which is a means of forcing treatment on people outside of the criminal justice system

Assisted Outpatient Treatment Laws - Treatment Advocacy Center

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Noop

Is anyone bothered by seeing the family of the victims making rounds on the talk shows? Or am I mentally ill for wondering that?

It's kinda disturbing, but probably more in the "I don't want to try to be in their position sort of way".

At this point I guess I tend to give some leeway, everybody copes differently.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Pretty hard sitting down and explaining what happened to my five-year old son who is in kindergarten.

I told him sometimes bad people do bad things for no reason. Then we sat and looked at the pictures of the people who died and I read what was said about them to him.

Wasn't sure if I should talk to him about it, but I didn't want him hearing things and not understanding what had happened.

We aren't talking about it with Mary (my 4 year old very soon to be step-daughter.) I don't think she is hearing about it at school or with any of our relatives.

On another note, every time I read this thread (or anything else about this tragedy), I keep crying. Thinking of her and how badly those parents must be hurting.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's kinda disturbing, but probably more in the "I don't want to try to be in their position sort of way".

At this point I guess I tend to give some leeway, everybody copes differently.

Money talks, too.

[Autumn]

I haven't seen any of those TV appearances, but I support the idea in general, if they can handle it. If I were them, I would want the public discussion to be about their kids, not the killer, not the gun laws. The more they can put the kids front and center, without hurting themselves too much, the better.

[Autumn]

I'm also having trouble deciding whether to tell my kids about this. We don't watch the news, they're not going to run across it at home, but you never know if they'll hear something out there. My oldest son especially doesn't really share much, so I'm not sure he'd come to us if he did hear something. But I really hate to inject that fear if I don't have to. Even 9/11 would be different, I feel like I could make it seem distant. How can you make your kids feel safe when you tell them something like this has happened. I feel like at a young age it should be our job to worry about their safety, not theirs.

[spleen1015]

We told my daughter on Friday that something bad happened some where else but didn't give much detail. This morning, she was eating breakfast when the Today Show started and she saw it and asked if that was what we were talking about. So, we kind of filled her in.

At school today, one of her classmates asked her teacher if she would hide them in cabinets if someone did that at their school. So, we had to talk about that.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

We aren't talking about it with Mary (my 4 year old very soon to be step-daughter.) I don't think she is hearing about it at school or with any of our relatives.

On another note, every time I read this thread (or anything else about this tragedy), I keep crying. Thinking of her and how badly those parents must be hurting.

With you. The opening of The Voice tonight killed me.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

With you. The opening of The Voice tonight killed me.

Damn.

[Lathum]

Missed that last night when the DVr didn't record. Very powerful.

[Edward64]

Thanks for posting. This and Saturday Night Live makes me appreciate NBC.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm also having trouble deciding whether to tell my kids about this. We don't watch the news, they're not going to run across it at home, but you never know if they'll hear something out there. My oldest son especially doesn't really share much, so I'm not sure he'd come to us if he did hear something. But I really hate to inject that fear if I don't have to. Even 9/11 would be different, I feel like I could make it seem distant. How can you make your kids feel safe when you tell them something like this has happened. I feel like at a young age it should be our job to worry about their safety, not theirs.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

We told my daughter on Friday that something bad happened some where else but didn't give much detail. This morning, she was eating breakfast when the Today Show started and she saw it and asked if that was what we were talking about. So, we kind of filled her in.

At school today, one of her classmates asked her teacher if she would hide them in cabinets if someone did that at their school. So, we had to talk about that.

Been away from this for a few days sorry for the late response to this. We sat all of our kids down over the weekend and without going into excruciating detail with them, just explained what happened and what they should do if something like this ever happens. For example, if their teacher tells them to get in a closet or cabinet to do it and not ask questions (of course, we made sure they understand that if just they are being asked to go in the closet that is something entirely different). I believe my kids should be educated about current events to some degree but it is definitely a fine line to walk regarding making them safe and worrying them needlessly....

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Heart-stopping letter to Newtown shooting victim Jack Pinto from his best friend | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

That didn't take long. Bill proposed allowing teachers to carry weapons......

http://www.news-leader.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Missed that last night when the DVr didn't record. Very powerful.

This is off-topic, but doesn't somebody who produces these musical tribute type things actually ever listen to the song? Other than the chorus, what would make someone think Hallelujah is an appropriate tribute to kids who have died? I understand someone who's never paid any attention to the song thinking that, but you would think a music director would actually read the lyrics.

[cartman]

You mean the line "the only thing I ever learned from love was to shoot at someone who out drew you?" might not have been appropriate?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by cartman

You mean the line "the only thing I ever learned from love was to shoot at someone who out drew you?" might not have been appropriate?

Sure, but no I mean the entire song does not really apply to mourning someone like this. Not that it's "inappropriate" I guess as much it doesn't apply in the least. It's like how Reagan used to use Born in the USA, ignoring the fact that the song is not at all jingoistic if you listen to the actual lyrics.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Heart-stopping letter to Newtown shooting victim Jack Pinto from his best friend | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

This is really hard to even look at. Oh man.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

dola

That didn't take long. Bill proposed allowing teachers to carry weapons......

http://www.news-leader.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

What a horrible, horrible idea. Where do we start? At "it would cause more lives lost in accidents than lives saved preventing massacres"? Or "with the 20:1 or 30:1 student:teacher ratio, it's hard enough to manage a classroom without all the attention one would need to focus on keeping a gun out of children's hands". Or the "people don't trust teachers enough as is to teach their children but now you want to give them guns, too?" Or how about the first kid who steals the teacher's gun and kills other students? Or the first kid who steals the gun and kills the teacher? Or the first teacher who shoots a student "in self defense" in questionable circumstances? Or how about my wife's uncharacteristic statement from last night of "I hope that the first few firearm deaths that happen in school because of this happen before we have kids so they realize how awful of an idea this is and get rid of it" after an introduction of how *bleep*ing stupid an idea this was from someone who rarely swears.

Or should we move the above post and any conversation to the Obama thread rather than posting it here? This probably isn't news about Connecticut so much as inviting politicization into this thread.

SI

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Sure, but no I mean the entire song does not really apply to mourning someone like this. Not that it's "inappropriate" I guess as much it doesn't apply in the least. It's like how Reagan used to use Born in the USA, ignoring the fact that the song is not at all jingoistic if you listen to the actual lyrics.

They put that together in a couple of days, not bad considering all that goes into it logistically and legally. I only saw the voice tribute once but i think they cut out all the objectionable stuff and it went over really well.X Factor went with You are not alone which probably was a better lyrical fit but they also had slightly more time.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Heart-stopping letter to Newtown shooting victim Jack Pinto from his best friend | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

One of the saddest things I've ever read.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

One of the saddest things I've ever read.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not sure what thread to put this in, if someone thinks it's misplaced here then I'm open to suggestions.

Crawford High student suspended after Christmas stunt goes wrong | Education | Macon.com

Long story short, 16 y/o in rural Georgia posts on Facebook that "CCHS is in for a big surprise tomorrow", another parent sees it & call the school who in turn calls the cops. Cops investigate and quickly discover that the big surprise was that the kid was going to dress up as Santa Claus and hand out candy.

Here's the f'ed up part ... he remains suspended with the administration planning to hold a hearing to straighten things out "after the holidays".

Here's a thought you clueless gits: hold the hearing Wednesday 12/26 & fix it. Don't leave it hanging over the kid's head & screw up his holiday.

[Izulde]

Wow, way to ensure the kid never does anything nice for anyone ever again. I understand the parent calling the school. I can even understand the school calling the police just to be on the safe side.

But to keep him suspended after it turned out something completely innocent, even awesome? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[JediKooter]

Because school administrators are never wrong.









...in their minds.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not sure what thread to put this in, if someone thinks it's misplaced here then I'm open to suggestions.

Crawford High student suspended after Christmas stunt goes wrong | Education | Macon.com

Long story short, 16 y/o in rural Georgia posts on Facebook that "CCHS is in for a big surprise tomorrow", another parent sees it & call the school who in turn calls the cops. Cops investigate and quickly discover that the big surprise was that the kid was going to dress up as Santa Claus and hand out candy.

Here's the f'ed up part ... he remains suspended with the administration planning to hold a hearing to straighten things out "after the holidays".

Here's a thought you clueless gits: hold the hearing Wednesday 12/26 & fix it. Don't leave it hanging over the kid's head & screw up his holiday.

Is school even in session? Is he really missing anything until after the Christmas Break? I don't see the point of holding a hearing on 12/26, if nothing is in session.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Is school even in session? Is he really missing anything until after the Christmas Break? I don't see the point of holding a hearing on 12/26, if nothing is in session.

The point is in the article, where the student's father mentions how he's asking repeatedly whether or not he's in trouble, going to jail, etc. The student did nothing wrong, the administration fucked up by leaving the suspension in place after the police quickly investigated & cleared him of any wrongdoing. Their fuck up puts the burden on them to repair the damage as quickly as possible.

[stevew]

They are going to need a few extra administrators this year in order to oversee the other administrators and to administrate the administration.

Time to raise school taxes again!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Time to raise school taxes again!

Is there ever a time when that isn't on the agenda?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The point is in the article, where the student's father mentions how he's asking repeatedly whether or not he's in trouble, going to jail, etc. The student did nothing wrong, the administration fucked up by leaving the suspension in place after the police quickly investigated & cleared him of any wrongdoing. Their fuck up puts the burden on them to repair the damage as quickly as possible.

But if school is not in session, they can't correct their "fuck up" until it's back in session. Hell, the father admitted the facebook post is poorly timed. Just a "fucked up" situation. There's certainly a fine line. Don't do anything, kid brings a gun to school, shoots up people. Do something, and it's an overreaction. In hindsight, it is a total overreaction, but again, if they're not in school, they can't correct it.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Is there ever a time when that isn't on the agenda?

Well, with all the shit schools have to fucking monitor, do you blame them? Jesus........lots of people calling for extra guards, etc. in schools, but let's not raise taxes! You just can't win with some people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

if they're not in school, they can't correct it.

Sure they can, it's an administrative procedure that takes place outside of the normal daily routine.

Their failure to take steps now is almost certainly a matter of nothing more than being too damned lazy to do what needs to be done during the holiday. Again, they're the ones who fucked it up (with the suspension lasting beyond the police investigation, not the investigation itself) so I have no sympathy for any inconvenience to them whatsoever.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sure they can, it's an administrative procedure that takes place outside of the normal daily routine.

Their failure to take steps now is almost certainly a matter of nothing more than being too damned lazy to do what needs to be done during the holiday. Again, they're the ones who fucked it up (with the suspension lasting beyond the police investigation, not the investigation itself) so I have no sympathy for any inconvenience to them whatsoever.

I see, they should have suspended him, pending a police investigation, and after the police investigation, they should have opened up the offices and invited him in for a "peppy make him feel better chat", even though his post, admittedly by his own father, certainly could have been better worded. There's no harm in waiting until the first day after the break. We're not taking about an 8 year old here, the kid is in high school. Certainly he knows after being cleared by the police, the suspension will be lifted pronto, when school resumes. I'd say more mental harm comes from watching the Saw movies, that he has tagged in his facebook signature.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I see, they should have suspended him, pending a police investigation, and after the police investigation, they should have opened up the offices and invited him in for a "peppy make him feel better chat", even though his post, admittedly by his own father, certainly could have been better worded. There's no harm in waiting until the first day after the break. We're not taking about an 8 year old here, the kid is in high school. Certainly he knows after being cleared by the police, the suspension will be lifted pronto, when school resumes. I'd say more mental harm comes from watching the Saw movies, that he has tagged in his facebook signature.

{shrug} Defend them if you like, if they were my local board/admins I'd be looking to put them in the road p.d.q. for being asshats.

In the meantime we'll make sure that students don't use the word "surprise" I guess.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

{shrug} Defend them if you like, if they were my local board/admins I'd be looking to put them in the road p.d.q. for being asshats.

In the meantime we'll make sure that students don't use the word "surprise" I guess.

If they were your admins and they didn't do anything and the kid shows up with a gun, you'd be looking to put them in the road even p.d.q.'er. There's no winning. I'd imagine on Jan. 2 or whenever the first day back from break is the kid will be back in school. I know in my district, something like a level 4 suspension (what this probably is) gets an automatic 10 day suspension, pending a hearing. Sometimes they last 2 days, sometimes they last 10. His hearing will be the first day after break. These "asshats" are doing nothing more than looking out for the safety of the kids in their school, which happens to be at the forefront of every administrator and every parents agenda at the moment.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Incidentally, has anyone seen when toxicology results on the CT shooter are expected to be available?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

These "asshats" are doing nothing more than looking out for the safety of the kids in their school, which happens to be at the forefront of every administrator and every parents agenda at the moment.

And that has already been assured in this case, so it's no longer an issue. It's a virtual non-story if they acted expediently afterwards, which is where they open themselves to criticism (and hopefully unemployment in the days to come).

[stevew]

Administration getting fired for being wrong....that's a funny ass joke.