Lost Season 6 - The Final Season

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

How come Jin and Sun never mentioned their daughter once during their death? That seemed stupid.

It's not like I'm not used to suspending my disbelief for Lost, but I'd like it to be in the course of some of those damned "answers", whereas this just seemed like a bunch of sloppy, contrived setup specifically to kill off Jin, Sun and Sayid in a manner that was spectacular, and not much else. Ultimately it came off pretty hollow to me. I was reminded of how I used to feel like this show was a well oiled machine, in terms of writing, production, and acting, and now it seems more like a bunch of random parts, duct taped together, thrown in a 5-gallon bucket.

I agree with this -- I'm pretty forgiving and allow a good bit of leeway, but the Jin and Sun death was just crap. With them having a daughter, you would think that Jin would suck it up for her sake and hope to get off the island to raise her. That just rang hollow to me. Maybe it is because I am a new parent, but I know it would absolutely suck, beyond belief, to lose your spouse, but when you have a child -- I cannot see leaving them without a parent as an option, no matter how hard.

[nole4sho]

I sure would like to know how TPTB will tie everything up. Lost is nearing it's end and there are still things that are unsolved. What is Flocke's real name? Why can people communicate with the dead on the island? Assuming Flocke was Jack's dad does that mean he can leave the island after all?

Why doesn't anyone flat out ask what is going on? Why don't they ask Richard, Ben, Locke or whoever?

I hope the ending is worth it.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by nole4sho

I sure would like to know how TPTB will tie everything up. Lost is nearing it's end and there are still things that are unsolved. What is Flocke's real name? Why can people communicate with the dead on the island? Assuming Flocke was Jack's dad does that mean he can leave the island after all?

Why doesn't anyone flat out ask what is going on? Why don't they ask Richard, Ben, Locke or whoever?

I hope the ending is worth it.

Flocke's real name was an anagram puzzle Darlton came up with. I'm pretty sure we learn it next week.

People communicating with the dead is probably something that won't be explained.

Flocke took the form of Jack's dad, if one is to assume that Flocke's true goal is to get off the island then I think you can infer that no, he was not who Jack saw off the island (I think it was actually Jacob).

They have asked, but in true Lost fashion get the run around like the rest of us

[Chubby]

For those hoping for a full disclosure on things in the show I think the latest podcast shattered what little hope was left of that (I never thought they'd come out and explain everything tho I'd love for it to happen)

Basically they referenced the Architect scene from the Matrix said that scene sucked and was why they wouldn't do something similar (because most scenes like that suck)

[TargetPractice6]

That's pretty much what they did with the whispers and that scene sucked.

[lordscarlet]

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Chubby

For those hoping for a full disclosure on things in the show I think the latest podcast shattered what little hope was left of that (I never thought they'd come out and explain everything tho I'd love for it to happen)

Basically they referenced the Architect scene from the Matrix said that scene sucked and was why they wouldn't do something similar (because most scenes like that suck)

I never expected it all to be explained, but with each passing press conference my hopes of learning at least at enough to be satisfied (like the ABC version of Life on Mars) grows dimmer.

[spleen1015]

I remember hearing one of the dynamic duo say that they would answer all of the questions that the characters need answered. If it is a question the characters don't need an answer to, we're SOL.

I am hoping the end is satisfying.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

I never expected it all to be explained, but with each passing press conference my hopes of learning at least at enough to be satisfied (like the ABC version of Life on Mars) grows dimmer.

So what exactly do you want to know to be "satisfied"?

What the island is? I don't think we're going to get a more detailed explanation than the bottle analogy we already got. Does it really matter if the island is made of mirror matter/an alternate universe/an alternate plane of existience/purgatory/etc?

Who Jacob and MIB are? I fully expect this to be explained this week, or at least as fully explained as it's going to be.

Who the child Flocke sees is? He's in this week's episode, I won't spoil more than that here but check out the previews on abc.com if you want a little more.

What the alternate reality is? I fully expect this to be explained before the series ends.

Who will replace Jacob or will MIB get off the island? Fully expect resolution here too.

What else is there?

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

what did Locke whisper to Walt on season 1 when playing backgammon? I still think this so key. On that episode he did explain the white and black pieces in the game too.

If I recall didn't he tell him that a miracle happened. The miracle was that John could walk again.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

If I recall didn't he tell him that a miracle happened. The miracle was that John could walk again.

I think this is true, I'd have to rewatch to be sure...

[OldGiants]

I do want to know what the island is, how it disappeared into the Pacific, how Ben (and others) got off it. And, more importantly, how they get back. It doesn't have to be detailed explanation, down to the molecule, but generally I need to know this to be satisfied.

Other biggies for me:

Why Ben said, "We got a lot more than we bargained for" about Walt.

How can Hurley talk to the dead?
Why were the numbers broadcast?
What is Widmore up to?

The A-bomb result.

Bernard and Rose result in the wake of the blast.

There's more, of course, and some of this looks to be scheduled to be revealed, but I can only hope these are not skipped over.

OTOH, I do NOT want the Sawyer-Kate-Jack triangle resolved, so as to piss off all the whiny fat chicks.

[chesapeake]

I just caught up with the show this weekend. I share the general sentiments of the group on the deaths. The first was cliche and numbers 2 and 3 were done just to clear them out of the way. Those two deserved better.

Since we haven't seen Lapidus's body, I'm currently of the opinion that he made it out. They still need him to fly the plane off of the island. That appears to be the only reason they've been hauling him around. It can't be because of the chest hair.

Locke went straight to the bomb on the plane. I think thesloppy makes a good point about the bomb being set up and ready to go for Locke's purposes; but, rather than think it is far-fetched, I am hypothesizing that Widmore planted it ready for Locke to use. I think they are in cahoots.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

I do want to know what the island is, how it disappeared into the Pacific, how Ben (and others) got off it. And, more importantly, how they get back. It doesn't have to be detailed explanation, down to the molecule, but generally I need to know this to be satisfied.

Other biggies for me:

Why Ben said, "We got a lot more than we bargained for" about Walt.

How can Hurley talk to the dead?
Why were the numbers broadcast?
What is Widmore up to?

The A-bomb result.

Bernard and Rose result in the wake of the blast.

There's more, of course, and some of this looks to be scheduled to be revealed, but I can only hope these are not skipped over.

OTOH, I do NOT want the Sawyer-Kate-Jack triangle resolved, so as to piss off all the whiny fat chicks.

As I've said before, I hope we find out what the island is but I doubt we'll get anymore explanation than the bottle analogy.

Walt filmed scenes for this season, presumably for the finale so hopefully his stuff will be resolved.

I don't think we'll find out why certain people have special abilities, i think they are just "special"

The numbers broadcast I think is a time loop, has Hurley broadcast them yet? That might happen in the finale. He has to broadcast the numbers so he plays so he ends up on the island to broadcast the numbers so he can play them etc... I guess it's possible they were broadcast in the alt timeline? Hopefully this is answered.

I'm sure we'll find out what Widmore is up to.

A-bomb created the other timeline/ability for them to be connected. I don't think this will be explained til the finale.

Who cares about Bernard and Rose? That's like complaining we haven't seen Shannon in the alt timeline... they aren't central characters

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

I just caught up with the show this weekend. I share the general sentiments of the group on the deaths. The first was cliche and numbers 2 and 3 were done just to clear them out of the way. Those two deserved better.

Since we haven't seen Lapidus's body, I'm currently of the opinion that he made it out. They still need him to fly the plane off of the island. That appears to be the only reason they've been hauling him around. It can't be because of the chest hair.

Locke went straight to the bomb on the plane. I think thesloppy makes a good point about the bomb being set up and ready to go for Locke's purposes; but, rather than think it is far-fetched, I am hypothesizing that Widmore planted it ready for Locke to use. I think they are in cahoots.

Personally I think everyone dies except Jack and Sawyer as they replace Jacob/MIB. I've thought this for a while but we'll see

[OldGiants]

Rose and Bernard are related to the A-bomb story arc. What happens to them seems central to that plot point. They were alive just before the Big Kaboom, so what became of them is far beyond a Shannon explanation.

I like your idea about Jack and Sawyer, and that would be cool.

If they keep the island as a cork analogy and state Ben using the donkey wheel was him tightening the cork--pushing it down--so that the island went below the water, I'm fine with that. But I want to hear that.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

Rose and Bernard are related to the A-bomb story arc. What happens to them seems central to that plot point. They were alive just before the Big Kaboom, so what became of them is far beyond a Shannon explanation.

I like your idea about Jack and Sawyer, and that would be cool.

If they keep the island as a cork analogy and state Ben using the donkey wheel was him tightening the cork--pushing it down--so that the island went below the water, I'm fine with that. But I want to hear that.

The Ben thing would be a cool way of explaining it.

IDK, I just don't care that much about Rose/Bernard. I don't think they are adam/eve, i think who they are will be revelaed this week (my theory is based of the ABC promos for tomorrow night so I won't post about it in case people want to avoid them). It just seems to me they are more of a red herring than anything (common theory being they went back in time after the A Bomb went off, died in the cave becoming adam and eve).

[Chubby]

more and more this season Sawyer has been hellbent on getting off the island and Jack has been wanting to stay on the island... sound familiar?

Supposedly there's a clue in the pilot that hasn't been brought up yet, what that is I have no idea!

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Chubby

more and more this season Sawyer has been hellbent on getting off the island and Jack has been wanting to stay on the island... sound familiar?

Supposedly there's a clue in the pilot that hasn't been brought up yet, what that is I have no idea!

I thought the clue was the backgammon (sp?) being the game of black and white pieces?

On a separate note, does anyone remember the details of when Richard told Locke that he would have to die? I was reading an EW article and they brought that up and I remember the line/delivery well, but I am having trouble remembering the context. It made me wonder if Richard was actually Smokey (at that time) or if something was shady about that exchange.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

No, but Smokey (as Locke) told Richard to tell that to Locke, so both Richard and Locke were being played by Smokey.

Follow the Leader - Lostpedia - The Lost Encyclopedia

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I thought the clue was the backgammon (sp?) being the game of black and white pieces?

On a separate note, does anyone remember the details of when Richard told Locke that he would have to die? I was reading an EW article and they brought that up and I remember the line/delivery well, but I am having trouble remembering the context. It made me wonder if Richard was actually Smokey (at that time) or if something was shady about that exchange.

It supposedly is a clue nobody has called Darlton out about, the backgammon game has been heavily talked about. Someone brought up Sawyer smoking a cigarette = smokie on a lost messageboard I read as a possible candidate.

I don't think Smokie can take the appearance of a living person, I think only Jacob can? Since Jacob has seemingly been one step ahead of MIB (without him knowing about it) it's possible that was Jacob or that Jacob had told him that Locke would have to die and Richard was speaking for Jacob.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by Chubby

more and more this season Sawyer has been hellbent on getting off the island and Jack has been wanting to stay on the island... sound familiar?

Supposedly there's a clue in the pilot that hasn't been brought up yet, what that is I have no idea!

ohhhh - I like this theory a lot!

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by NY Mag

Annetay knows there will be some questions left unanswered. Are there any questions left unanswered that you wish you would have answered?
Lindelof: We answered all the questions that we wanted to answer. And our rule has always been: We answer the questions that were important to answer for the characters on the show. If Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Locke, and Kate didn't care about it ... It's not that we didn't care about it, or that we don't acknowledge that the fans are curious about it, but we didn't answer it. That being said: There might, possibly, be some questions that we, as storytellers, will answer in the body of the show that might not be appearing in the finale. And that's all we're willing to say ...

Here is a slice of an article about questions being answered. You can see the full article here:

hxxp://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/lost_showrunners_damon_lindelo.html

[lordscarlet]

For those who don't understand what questions are lingering and why people like me are bitter, here's a sampling of the unanswered questions that I have been unable to articulate:

'Lost' 10s: The 10 mysteries we most want solved | Show Tracker | Los Angeles Times)

[cmp]

I'm just enjoying the ride. If not every single question is answered I will be a bit disappointed but it will not ruin the show for me.

[flounder]

I agree with a lot of those questions. If we don't learn about Jacob and MIB, what's the point? But 3, 4, 6, 7 and 10 I don't really care about. If we don't find out about Walt, I won't be too broken up either.

We're always going to be able to find something from the first few seasons that is never resolved or is inconsistent. As long as the big questions are answered, I'm ok with that.

[Chubby]

tonight's episode is going to be epic!

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by flounder

I agree with a lot of those questions. If we don't learn about Jacob and MIB, what's the point? But 3, 4, 6, 7 and 10 I don't really care about. If we don't find out about Walt, I won't be too broken up either.

We're always going to be able to find something from the first few seasons that is never resolved or is inconsistent. As long as the big questions are answered, I'm ok with that.

When they make all these claims that it's been planned since episode 1, there's no reason to have lingering questions.

[flounder]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

When they make all these claims that it's been planned since episode 1, there's no reason to have lingering questions.

When you don't believe those claims, there's no reason to expect there to be no lingering questions.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Possibly relevant to the discussion:

When were [Jacob and the Man in Black] first conceived?
Lindelof: We had to start talking about the overall mythology of the island in greater detail in the cracks between the first and second seasons, before our characters went down into the hatch. That conversation basically kicked out into the other major arc of the second season. Which was: Who are the Others? Who are these other people on the island, and who was their leader? And who was he receiving his instructions from? By the time the show got into its third season, we started to hear references to this character, Jacob. And I think it's safe to say that those conversations started then.

Do you think some fans get disappointed when they find out that everything wasn't plotted out from the first episode?
Cuse: I think the answer is, once we announced the end date, I think a lot of those concerns went away. I can't imagine that there are many authors that are able to, basically, conceive something entirely beforehand. We feel strongly that the show would be worse if we were just marching forward. The creative process is not like a situation where you get struck by a single lightning bolt. You have ongoing discoveries and there's ongoing creative revelations. Yes, it's really helpful to be marching toward a specific destination, but, along the way, you must allow yourself room for your ideas to blossom, take root, and grow. I think that's how we approached the show: We had a rough idea of certain things, a specific idea about other things. Over six years, everything got a lot richer and fuller because we spent all that time thinking about the show and thinking about how to make the show better.


As opposed to someone like George Lucas who, today, claims he knew the entire arc of Star Wars when he was filming the first movie. Even his old interviews prove that's not true.
Lindelof: Totally. The other thing is, we never had the hubris or the audacity to try and plot out too far in advance, because we didn't even know if the viewers were going to want another season of Lost. Just to say in season three that we'll end the show after season six, then people decide they hated the show in season four, there wouldn't have even have been a season five. You have to focus on what's in front of you. If J.K. Rowling was only thinking about the seventh Harry Potter book when she was writing the third one, she wouldn't have been able to write the third one. You kind of have to say, "Hey, we have a cool idea for this character named Jacob and his nemesis, the Man in Black. But let's not put that idea in front of the audience until we're really ready to start telling that chapter of the story. We'll allude to it, because we have it in mind. In the meantime, this chapter of the story is that the island is moving through time and that's what the characters are dealing with right now. If you throw Jacob and the Man in Black into that story, people's heads are going to explode.

Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse on the End (?) of Lost -- Vulture

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by flounder

When you don't believe those claims, there's no reason to expect there to be no lingering questions.

I just want consistency. Don't claim you had it planned out when you didn't. If you did have it planned out, then there shouldn't be ideas you toyed with it threw away from the early seasons. What I think is that they were just playing it from the hip for seasons 1-3 at a minimum. But all I have ever heard is that they knew where they were going all along.

[Chubby]

I think #3 and #1 are pretty well answered

[Noop]

I was slightly disappointed by this episode to be honest.

[Kodos]

My wife is a huge Lost fan, and she fell asleep during the episode. When I told her what happened, she said she knew the show would end badly. (Guess she's still bitter about the ending to Alias.)

[flounder]

Originally Posted by Noop

I was slightly disappointed by this episode to be honest.

Yeah, me too.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by flounder

Yeah, me too.

thritto

[spleen1015]

Put me in the same boat.

I'm not down with the whole 'I'm gettin' off this island because mommy lied to me' angle.

I also feel like instead of answering questions, more questions were introduced.

So, there's this 'light' on the island and Jacob throws little bro into it and it goes away and out comes the smoke monster. What is that all about? So, is Smokey really the MiB or is MiB really dead and Smokey was just disguising himself as MiB to fuck with Jacob?

I strongly believed there would be a big pay off in the end and all of it would be pretty awesome. Put me in the low confidence camp now.

[tyketime]

I can't say this was one of the better episodes for me either. But I think part of it is the timing of the episode. If this had been shown in Season 5 or early-mid Season 6, my guess is it would be better received. But with the huge countdown until the end, momentum has been its own worst enemy. Several good episodes in a row were interrupted two weeks ago with a repeat (again... how in the hell did the schedulers let that happen in the last season of a show?). Then a big episode last week with lots of action and emotional deaths. Only to be undermined this week with a "meh" episode that didn't feature a single main character. To be fair, this episode did answer a couple of big questions, but I feel like the timing was off. The build-up to the finale just took a U-Turn.

[Alan T]

You guys are tough on shows!

I thought the episode was fine myself. I found it interesting to see that the island isn't about good vs evil, found it interesting to see that they were brothers and the MiB actually died, and it has always been the smoke monster pretending to be him.

I also found it really cool to see the tie in to season 1 who the dead people in the cave were and how it tied that up.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You guys are tough on shows!

I thought the episode was fine myself. I found it interesting to see that the island isn't about good vs evil, found it interesting to see that they were brothers and the MiB actually died, and it has always been the smoke monster pretending to be him.

I also found it really cool to see the tie in to season 1 who the dead people in the cave were and how it tied that up.

It's not the smoke monster pretending to be him, MIB became the smoke monster when jacob sent him into the light (his mom said to never go down there, he'd become something worse than death). MIB also said Jacob stole his body earlier this season so that fits too.

[Chubby]

man, it seems like nobody else paid attention to this episode but me! see my comments to alan...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chubby

man, it seems like nobody else paid attention to this episode but me! see my comments to alan...

I think you saw it differently then me then. What i saw was:

-MiB gets pushed down there by Jacob...

-Out comes the smoke monster that flies off

- Jacob seeing MiB's dead body in the water there

- Jacob "burying" his mother and MiB's bodies in the cave where they would be found a long time later by Jack and Kate and them.


So that leaves my assumption since MiB's body was still there all those years later, that he died Maybe his soul or whatever created the smoke monster, but it clearly doesn't seem to be his body as it was buried.

[flounder]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think you saw it differently then me then. What i saw was:

-MiB gets pushed down there by Jacob...

-Out comes the smoke monster that flies off

- Jacob seeing MiB's dead body in the water there

- Jacob "burying" his mother and MiB's bodies in the cave where they would be found a long time later by Jack and Kate and them.


So that leaves my assumption since MiB's body was still there all those years later, that he died Maybe his soul or whatever created the smoke monster, but it clearly doesn't seem to be his body as it was buried.

I think the key is when Jacob asks his mother if he would die if he went into the light and she responds "It would be worse than death." That indicates to me that MiB (or his soul at least) was turned into the smoke monster. That can be consistent with Jacob finding what was left of him: his body.

I can see the idea that the smoke monster is impersonating the dead MiB, but in light of his mother's comment, I think MiB being the smoke monster makes more sense.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I think since the smoke monster wants to get off the island so badly, we can assume he's actually MiB and not an imposter.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I think #3 and #1 are pretty well answered

#7, too, for the most part. Although how the rules apply to Ben and Widmore need explaining. I think we'll get that. If not, I'll be disappointed.

For me, #4 and #2 are 'must haves'. along with WTF MITB's given name is. I waited for someone to speak it, and never happened.

Possible explanation: Somehow, Widmore is a descendant of the island, either Jacob or MIB. Because this was expanding THE RULES to other off-island people, that is, the twins can't harm each other, The Island decided to prevent any further babies from being born on the island.

So, my guess is Widmore is Jacob's son. We've seen Jacob off Island many times, he could have had fathered a child. Plus, Jacob says another person is coming and that's why he isn't worried. The context is that he was referring to the Candidates, but I think he means Widmore, his son. Which is why Widmore is anti-MIB.

And THE RULES didn't really apply to Alex since she was not Ben's biological daughter.

Jack and Sawyer mirroring MIB and Jacob has been building this season, so that seems as a setup for a final episode twist to me.

[Alan T]

Right it is part of MiB, since the rules about killing Jacob still apply to it, but it isn't him anymore as a human being or "body" since that was buried.

It also now gives more understanding why in a previous episode the MiB asked Jacob if he knew how badly he wanted to kill him. Now we fully understand why.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I think since the smoke monster wants to get off the island so badly, we can assume he's actually MiB and not an imposter.

Yes, that is what I saw last night. MIB had a body death and changed into Smoky. As Smoky he can assume the form of anyone who is dead, hence the body of MIB. However, THE RULES are that he cannot leave and cannot kill Jacob. Although Jacob can bash the shit out of him, apparently.

And I see the theme as being free will versus destiny as opposed to good vs. evil. I've pretty much always thought this since the Locke vs. Rousseau stuff early on. Also, Jack and real Locke talking about 'destiny', with Jack being free will/science and Locke seeing his destiny on the Island. His fake mom (like Ben and Alex?) told Jacob it is his destiny to defend the Island, while MIB wants the free choice to leave. I did notice the irony of Jack now stating it is his destiny to be on the Island. That change seals the issue for me.

That is also the game they are playing, fate versus destiny. I wonder if that is the name of board game they are playing--at least what Jacob and MIB called it when young.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Right it is part of MiB, since the rules about killing Jacob still apply to it, but it isn't him anymore as a human being or "body" since that was buried.

It also now gives more understanding why in a previous episode the MiB asked Jacob if he knew how badly he wanted to kill him. Now we fully understand why.

Yes, however, why would he want to kill Jacob instead of flush him into the Hobbit Hole of Happiness?

[Swaggs]

I agree with the earlier post -- I think it was a good enough episode, but its placement (after a series of dramatic episodes and this close to the end) made it seem worse than it was.

My only other beef was that last week, with all the deaths, seemed to be all about proving how bad or evil Smokey was/is, which I thought was to finally show us that Smokey = Bad, Jacob = Good. Now, after watching that episode, I'm back to not being 100% certain on that.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

Yes, however, why would he want to kill Jacob instead of flush him into the Hobbit Hole of Happiness?

When the smoke monster left the hole, the light disappeared also.. So I assumed the Light joined with MiB's soul (or whatever his consciousness is) to form the smoke monster. I'm assuming going down into that hole doesn't matter any more since the light is now part of the smoke monster. (Also why the Smoke monster can't leave the island or the world will end, because if the light left the island it would be bad)