Death on Disney Ride - Page 9

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

but there are risks on other rides.

Whats to stop someone from jumping a fence of a wooden coaster, climb the planks and slip and fall to their death?

Presumably bigger signs saying "We really mean it, guys. Don't jump this fence. It's really, really dangerous ok. Oh, and don't run with scissors either. That could put an eye out. "

DanGarion · 07-02-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

With the Batman ride, it's not exactly that easy to judge what is within head distance. My guess is he thought he was walking through an area that was high enough for him to pass under.

Oh come on, it's easy to tell. If you are by any part of the rail or base YOU ARE TOO CLOSE. Don't try to defend his stupidity.

BrianD · 07-02-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

Oh come on, it's easy to tell. If you are by any part of the rail or base YOU ARE TOO CLOSE. Don't try to defend his stupidity.

I'd take it a step further and say that if you are on the inside of the fence you are too close. That is the main purpose of the fence - mark the danger area.

DanGarion · 07-02-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

I'd take it a step further and say that if you are on the inside of the fence you are too close. That is the main purpose of the fence - mark the danger area.

I didn't want to sound completely crazy.

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

Oh come on, it's easy to tell. If you are by any part of the rail or base YOU ARE TOO CLOSE.

The Batman ride hangs very low from the track. You could be at an area that looks high enough, but isn't.

Quote:

Don't try to defend his stupidity.

Of course you took my post out of context, which was a specific response to Lathum about how this accident probably happened.

I already said he was stupid several times. Welcome to the thread.

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

I'd take it a step further and say that if you are on the inside of the fence you are too close. That is the main purpose of the fence - mark the danger area.

A point which I don't argue at all, nor have I done so in this entire thread.

People seem to be trying to paint me into rkmsuf's corner, and that's not the case at all. I'm a huge roller coaster fan and I love SFOG. I'm glad the Batman ride is open and will probably ride it when I visit the park the weekend after next.

Lathum · 07-02-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

A point which I don't argue at all, nor have I done so in this entire thread.

People seem to be trying to paint me into rkmsuf's corner, and that's not the case at all. I'm a huge roller coaster fan and I love SFOG. I'm glad the Batman ride is open and will probably ride it when I visit the park the weekend after next.

watch your feet

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The Batman ride hangs very low from the track. You could be at an area that looks high enough, but isn't.

Of course you took my post out of context, which was a specific response to Lathum about how this accident probably happened.

I already said he was stupid several times. Welcome to the thread.

I honestly do think he was high on something and that's how the accident probably happened. I'm not buying him leaving the park for lunch, not when he was on a church outing. No way they authorize that.

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

I honestly do think he was high on something and that's how the accident probably happened. I'm not buying him leaving the park for lunch, not when he was on a church outing. No way they authorize that.

Well, I think that's what Jon was alluding to earlier, and it's certainly a possibility. However, Six flags food is pretty expensive and I can see the church having packed food in coolers and expecting that a 17 year old would be smart enough not to walk under a roller coaster.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-02-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

It's an amusment park, not a casino.

So's WDW and that's an amazingly detailed security setup.

No way I think the Six Flags folks have something as sophisticated as Disney, but I'd wager it's a damned sight more than what you seem to expect.

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

watch your feet

That's a good idea, because I'm pretty tall. I'll life them up and shout, "read the fucking sign, asshole!".

JonInMiddleGA · 07-02-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

And you honestly think they catch everyone? Have you ever dealt with Six Flags "security" personnel? Who's the naive one now?

Never said they catch them all. Just saying that I'd be amazed if they didn't keep track of the data involving the ones they do catch (or other incidents/issues that arise by location or area of the park).

Hell, throwing stats at things is one way for a guy with a desk job to keep his desk job. I can't believe somebody doesn't generate some numbers for that purpose if for no other reason.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Well, I think that's what Jon was alluding to earlier, and it's certainly a possibility. However, Six flags food is pretty expensive and I can see the church having packed food in coolers and expecting that a 17 year old would be smart enough not to walk under a roller coaster.

I think I was the first to mention the possibility and I didn't allude I accused. I went on many, many trips like and not one let me ever go off the site. It's not so much trusting the kids but it's liability issues. The kids are under the responsibility of the church and it's adults are supposed to be chaperoning them.

Heck, my last job wouldn't let me leave the premises for lunch ( neither would the hospital I worked at ) either for the other side of the liability coin.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-02-2008, 10:40 AM

As for the lunch thing, subsequent articles seem to have dropped the lunch reference.

Quote:

After spending Saturday morning at the park, Asia Leeshawn Ferguson, 17, and David Jenkins, 19, his cousin, took a break in the parking lot.

DanGarion · 07-02-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The Batman ride hangs very low from the track. You could be at an area that looks high enough, but isn't.

Of course you took my post out of context, which was a specific response to Lathum about how this accident probably happened.

I already said he was stupid several times. Welcome to the thread.

Sorry I left my diagram of who on what side at home. I've been in the thread from the start but doesn't mean I pay attention to who is saying what.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As for the lunch thing, subsequent articles seem to have dropped the lunch reference.

Took a break in the parking lot? Yeah right. Hot cars are the perfect getaway spots when stuck at an amusement park.

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 10:44 AM

I'm wondering if they forgot to get hand stamped on their way out. If you want re-entry, you have to have your hand stamped or no dice. Maybe they tried to get back in the normal entrance and were sent away.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm wondering if they forgot to get hand stamped on their way out. If you want re-entry, you have to have your hand stamped or no dice. Maybe they tried to get back in the normal entrance and were sent away.

Possibly but I'm quite sure that any such shortcuts didn't force someone inside the fence of any rides.

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Possibly but I'm quite sure that any such shortcuts didn't force someone inside the fence of any rides.

I hope you don't think I was implying this, because that's certainly not the case.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I hope you don't think I was implying this, because that's certainly not the case.

Not you necessarily but I bet someone would have.

molson · 07-02-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

If you are going to build these death traps to begin with a least go out of your way to make sure the only people dying are the riders.

I actually think rkmsuf has a point here.

99% of security resources and efforts should be targeted towards protecting innocent park-goers. If a reckless moron slips through the cracks, it's no big loss. With finite resources, a park should to continue to enhance ride security and medical facilities, not try to protect people that have a great chance of killing themselves (or someone else) in some other way

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I actually think rkmsuf has a point here.

99% of security resources and efforts should be targeted towards protecting innocent park-goers. If a reckless moron slips through the cracks, it's no big loss. With finite resources, a park should to continue to enhance ride security and medical facilities, not try to protect people that have a great chance of killing themselves (or someone else) in some other way

Right, but in this instance, I think increasing the security of this area protects the innocent riders as well.

molson · 07-02-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Right, but in this instance, I think increasing the security of this area protects the innocent riders as well.

True, if it protects innocent riders from him, I'd be for more precautions.

(Though didn't we decide he wasn't jumping at anyone's feet? I guess it's possible someone could and create a risk that way).

Toddzilla · 07-02-2008, 02:08 PM

no sharks = not good enough

BrianD · 07-02-2008, 02:12 PM

What is worse, a kid getting killed because barriers weren't strict enough to keep him out of danger, or a kid getting killed because barriers were strict enough to absolutely keep him out of danger?

larrymcg421 · 07-02-2008, 02:17 PM

This thread has definitely jumped the shark.

BrianD · 07-02-2008, 02:18 PM

Is a shark-filled moat a sufficient deterrent if you can jump the shark?

rkmsuf · 07-02-2008, 02:19 PM

what worse decapitation or eaten by shark

Logan · 07-02-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Is a shark-filled moat a sufficient deterrent if you can jump the shark?

That's why you need laser beams attached to their friggin heads.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

What is worse, a kid getting killed because barriers weren't strict enough to keep him out of danger, or a kid getting killed because barriers were strict enough to absolutely keep him out of danger?

There's a certain entertainment value in the latter option.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

That's why you need laser beams attached to their friggin heads.

Heck yeah. Now this is becoming my type of thread here. Forget cowbell, we need more sharks.

Bad-example · 07-02-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Heck yeah. Now this is becoming my type of thread here. Forget cowbell, we need more sharks.

sharks

with

cowbells

.

RainMaker · 07-02-2008, 02:54 PM

Make something idiot-proof and the world will just build a bigger idiot.

Seriously, this is natural selection. The kid is a complete dumbshit and humanity is better off not having his genes spread to others. Sorry if that is harsh, but it's reality.

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

The bottom line is you can put all the added saftey measure in place you want, but you can't protect people from themselves.

Yes, but risk mitigation is all about trying to make it as difficult as possible for people to do the wrong thing (within a reasonable expense). Once it appears that it is easier than previously thought for somebody to get past security barriers, you come up with a way to improve them. I don't think of it as protecting people from themselves. I look at it as preventing incidents from happening.

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

I say they just close the rides down, that's the only way the public will remain safe.

Perhaps, but that doesn't seem nearly as reasonable as incresing the size of the signs or putting in a second or larger barrier. If Six Flags would rather close down instead, that is certainly up to them.

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Make something idiot-proof and the world will just build a bigger idiot.

Seriously, this is natural selection. The kid is a complete dumbshit and humanity is better off not having his genes spread to others. Sorry if that is harsh, but it's reality.

You know, I don't think I've read that sentiment expressed yet. Interesting.

But I say, if the world just builds bigger idiots we just keep building bigger sharks.

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No way I think the Six Flags folks have something as sophisticated as Disney, but I'd wager it's a damned sight more than what you seem to expect.

I don't know much about it, but if you assume Six Flags security is just a step above a county fair you might not be too far off.

Lathum · 07-02-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Yes, but risk mitigation is all about trying to make it as difficult as possible for people to do the wrong thing (within a reasonable expense). Once it appears that it is easier than previously thought for somebody to get past security barriers, you come up with a way to improve them. I don't think of it as protecting people from themselves. I look at it as preventing incidents from happening.

you can use all the fancy termonology you want, it's still protecting stupid people from themselves.

"incidents" happen because stupid people do stupid things. If the kid was smart enough to read the signs and respect the fact that the fences were there for a reason there would be no "incident"

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Took a break in the parking lot? Yeah right. Hot cars are the perfect getaway spots when stuck at an amusement park.

There is also a bunch of picnic tables under some trees next to a river that flows alongside the parking lot. I've had a picnic lunch there myself in the past when opting not to buy lunch in the park. They could have just hung out in the shade over there for a bit. There are obviously some parts of the layout here that you are unfamiliar with. I agree that if the only choice outside the park was a bunch of asphalt and parked vehicles, it would be a questionable thing. Knowing that there is more out there than that, it should at least provide reasonable doubt until more evidence comes in.

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

you can use all the fancy termonology you want, it's still protecting stupid people from themselves.

"incidents" happen because stupid people do stupid things. If the kid was smart enough to read the signs and respect the fact that the fences were there for a reason there would be no "incident"

Yes, and computers get hacked because of the morons that use them. That doesn't mean you stop trying to prevent it, right? I won't disagree that this kid made a major mistake that cost him his life and just might have been a real dumbass. However, if a real dumbass can scale a fence and end up under a roller coaster, Six Flags clearly has a security issue.

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

With finite resources, a park should to continue to enhance ride security and medical facilities, not try to protect people that have a great chance of killing themselves (or someone else) in some other way

Any security setup that allows morons to end up under roller coasters, potentially with the intent of harming riders, needs to have a new evaluation done.

Tekneek · 07-02-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

True, if it protects innocent riders from him, I'd be for more precautions.

(Though didn't we decide he wasn't jumping at anyone's feet? I guess it's possible someone could and create a risk that way).

So we know this kid made it under the roller coaster. We presume he is a complete moron. If a complete moron can end up with access to these parts of a roller coaster, what about somebody who actually wants to cause harm? When I think about it this way, it makes a whole lot of sense that they need to re-think their security plan and make it more difficult for another person to do this in the future.

PackerFanatic · 07-02-2008, 03:32 PM

Can you imagine being on the ride when it happened? THAT would have been F'ed up...

Lathum · 07-02-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek

So we know this kid made it under the roller coaster. We presume he is a complete moron. If a complete moron can end up with access to these parts of a roller coaster, what about somebody who actually wants to cause harm? When I think about it this way, it makes a whole lot of sense that they need to re-think their security plan and make it more difficult for another person to do this in the future.

Right, because Al Qaeda is targeting Batman rides.

Now if it was a Captain America ride you may be onto something.

DanGarion · 07-02-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Any security setup that allows morons to end up under roller coasters, potentially with the intent of harming riders, needs to have a new evaluation done.

But does it really?

Mustang · 07-02-2008, 04:13 PM

This thread is just like an amusement park ride. Just keeps going round and round and round

Axxon · 07-02-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Any security setup that allows morons to end up under roller coasters, potentially with the intent of harming riders, needs to have a new evaluation done.

Just another argument for the serious need for sharks.

hhiipp · 07-02-2008, 04:45 PM

They could make the whole fence a sign that says DANGER YOU COULD DIE. But then the kid could have only spoken spanish, so we'll also need to make it say. Peligro extremo usted podría ser descabezado. But then they might only speak l33t so they'd need to include D4|\|63|2 U CUD D13.

If they really want to keep it from happening again post the sign and underneath it put a picture of the kids decapitated head.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-02-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hhiipp

D4|\|63|2

Is that really leetspeak for "Danger"? Yeah I know, I'm not hip & cool & all that.

Quote:

... and underneath it put a picture of the kids decapitated head.

Screw the picture. Why not put the head itself on a pole for a while?

hhiipp · 07-02-2008, 04:59 PM

I considered the head on a pike idea, but I figured his parents might want it buried with him.

Anyone know if they did an autopsy?

07-02-2008, 10:44 AM	#417
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	I'm wondering if they forgot to get hand stamped on their way out. If you want re-entry, you have to have your hand stamped or no dice. Maybe they tried to get back in the normal entrance and were sent away. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

07-02-2008, 02:17 PM	#426
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	This thread has definitely jumped the shark. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner Last edited by larrymcg421 : 07-02-2008 at 02:46 PM.

07-02-2008, 02:19 PM	#428
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	what worse decapitation or eaten by shark __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

07-02-2008, 03:32 PM	#443
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Can you imagine being on the ride when it happened? THAT would have been F'ed up... __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-02-2008, 04:13 PM	#446
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	This thread is just like an amusement park ride. Just keeps going round and round and round __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

07-02-2008, 02:08 PM	#424
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	no sharks = not good enough

07-02-2008, 02:12 PM	#425
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	What is worse, a kid getting killed because barriers weren't strict enough to keep him out of danger, or a kid getting killed because barriers were strict enough to absolutely keep him out of danger?

07-02-2008, 02:18 PM	#427
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Is a shark-filled moat a sufficient deterrent if you can jump the shark?

07-02-2008, 02:54 PM	#433
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Make something idiot-proof and the world will just build a bigger idiot. Seriously, this is natural selection. The kid is a complete dumbshit and humanity is better off not having his genes spread to others. Sorry if that is harsh, but it's reality.

07-02-2008, 04:45 PM	#448
hhiipp College Prospect Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: OH	They could make the whole fence a sign that says DANGER YOU COULD DIE. But then the kid could have only spoken spanish, so we'll also need to make it say. Peligro extremo usted podría ser descabezado. But then they might only speak l33t so they'd need to include D4\|\\|63\|2 U CUD D13. If they really want to keep it from happening again post the sign and underneath it put a picture of the kids decapitated head.

07-02-2008, 04:59 PM	#450
hhiipp College Prospect Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: OH	I considered the head on a pike idea, but I figured his parents might want it buried with him. Anyone know if they did an autopsy?

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