WW LXIV- The Wedding- GAME OVER GUESTS WIN

[Lathum]

OK, something strange is afoot. The front page is showing the last post as Mauboy #399 but in the thread the last post was Pass' at 400. Is this happening to anyone else?

[mauchow]

That is odd.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I guess it just seems to me BK that you are trying AWFULLY hard to stay in the middle on things. Like you voted for me since it was an obvious vote to make. You don't come out one way or another on really anything.

If I don't have strong feelings I'm supposed to fake them? That's just silly.

[mauchow]

It has our posts flipped around but it seems to be fine..

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Man, you're seeing all kinds of things in this game that I'm missing. Where did BK defend olie?

It was in response to you questioning Olie...

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

This is frequently how these things go down pass. People express consideration of voting for somebody but don't want to throw away their vote so they wait until someone else votes for a person before doing so. I don't like your skittishness when it appears that the guy you're voting for might by lynched.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

If I don't have strong feelings I'm supposed to fake them? That's just silly.

No but like I said, it's like youy're working the middle ground, almost too hard. In spots where you could just say nothing, you're proposing something, but then you're quick to make sure that it's tempered to a degree.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

It was in response to you questioning Olie...

Oh yeah -- that did strike a chord in me when BK said that. But I was in the middle of dinner then, and only checking things sporadically, so I didn't get into it with him.

[claphamsa]

I still think waht I thought yesaterday!

vite mau

[Lathum]

just a reminder there is no editing posts or deleting posts.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I still think waht I thought yesaterday!

vite mau

Creed, is that you?

C'mon, knock it off. lol

[oliegirl]

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. After what went down yesterday, he is number one on my Wolf Radar. I explained my actions last night, if anyone has questions, please ask.

To turn Pass's logic around on him...why didn't he actually cast his vote for Mau until I'd said I was thinking Mau as well?

A possible scenario I've come up with is this: Pass and Mau are wolves...Pass threw Mau out there to see what would happen, when I also voted Mau he worried about a bandwagon on him, so he threw me under the bus with the lame excuse that he didn't like a "pile on" vote by me. He's a well respected player, so he knew there was a chance that others would follow his vote, especially since RA had already voted for me. Once the bandwagon started, I asked why he avoided a bandwagon on Mau, but didn't have a problem starting one on me. He never answered that question or made an attempt to move his vote. I thought for sure I'd be lynched last night, but I think if I had been, it would have basically put a big spotlight on Pass after the "if I die" post I made last night.

Again, if anyone has any questions, ask away...I'm not a wolf and will answer what I can.

[Passacaglia]

I never answered you because your ramblings are only because of the fact that I voted for you.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I never answered you because your ramblings are only because of the fact that I voted for you.

Yeah, and if you weren't a wolf you'd be defending yourself right now instead of trying to once again, avoid the issue. The more you say shit like that, the more convinced I am that you are a wolf.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

If I don't have strong feelings I'm supposed to fake them? That's just silly.

Women have been doing that since the dawn of time....

[Raiders Army]

Vote count:

Passacaglia-path12-post 363
mauboy1-Chief Rum-post 368
Passacaglia-Raiders Army-post 376
oliegirl-Passacaglia-post 381
Barkeep49-jeheinz72-post 385
Barkeep49-mauboy1-post 400
mauboy1-claphamsa-post 408
Passacaglia-oliegirl-post 411

Passacaglia-3 votes
mauboy1-2 votes
Barkeep49-2 votes
oliegirl-1 vote

Not voted:
Schmidty
Farrah
Arlie
Daddy Torgo
NTN

[Raiders Army]

I think that based on day 1 voting as well as day 2 voting that the wolves are trying to get us to spread out our votes. Listen, we need to lynch someone today. It's inevitable that we will lynch a villager, but sometimes you have to break some eggs to make an omlette.

In that respect, I think we need to consolidate votes to two people vice three. My candidates would be Pass and someone else (either mauboy or Barkeep). At least we can learn something then and possibly get lucky and get a wolf today.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

No but like I said, it's like youy're working the middle ground, almost too hard. In spots where you could just say nothing, you're proposing something, but then you're quick to make sure that it's tempered to a degree.

Fair enough. I think some of this is just you not having played with me much. I often try to get discussions started since I think info, and pressing people to explain things, is how we spot wolves as villagers.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think that based on day 1 voting as well as day 2 voting that the wolves are trying to get us to spread out our votes. Listen, we need to lynch someone today. It's inevitable that we will lynch a villager, but sometimes you have to break some eggs to make an omlette.

In that respect, I think we need to consolidate votes to two people vice three. My candidates would be Pass and someone else (either mauboy or Barkeep). At least we can learn something then and possibly get lucky and get a wolf today.

Do you think that necessity still stands even with the fact that we came out theoretically unscathed after Day Two (no additional innocents were dead as opposed to Day One).

Though the catch is, from what I read and surmise, more than likely the no-kill is a result of the groom's auto-protection, which if that's the case, he's dead tonight.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Fair enough. I think some of this is just you not having played with me much. I often try to get discussions started since I think info, and pressing people to explain things, is how we spot wolves as villagers.

Not really. I think I've seen you play enough (my quick count has this as our 7th game playing together). I think that's a pretty good number. You just seem more wishy-washy than in the past, but I've seen you good and bad in past games admiteddly. This seems different altogether.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Do you think that necessity still stands even with the fact that we came out theoretically unscathed after Day Two (no additional innocents were dead as opposed to Day One).

Though the catch is, from what I read and surmise, more than likely the no-kill is a result of the groom's auto-protection, which if that's the case, he's dead tonight.

I think that we're not learning much from the voting. There could've been a conversion for all we know as well. The only hope we have here is that the seer got another night to clear/condemn someone. I think it was said before, but the seer does not need to come out at this point. Gather some more intel and come to us when there are fewer players.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Vote count:

Passacaglia-path12-post 363
mauboy1-Chief Rum-post 368
Passacaglia-Raiders Army-post 376
oliegirl-Passacaglia-post 381
Barkeep49-jeheinz72-post 385
Barkeep49-mauboy1-post 400
mauboy1-claphamsa-post 408
Passacaglia-oliegirl-post 411

Passacaglia-3 votes
mauboy1-2 votes
Barkeep49-2 votes
oliegirl-1 vote

Not voted:
Schmidty
Farrah
Arlie
Daddy Torgo
NTN

Ah, I think I missed Barkeep not voting yet.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I suppose there could be a conversion (boy would that stink). I think while we aren't learning anything *presently* from the voting, I think we are, in a way, learning "sides". Whereas a bit of info here or there we can start then looking back at these votes knowing a lot. Though that admiteddly doesn't help us with today's vote.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Yeah I suppose there could be a conversion (boy would that stink). I think while we aren't learning anything *presently* from the voting, I think we are, in a way, learning "sides". Whereas a bit of info here or there we can start then looking back at these votes knowing a lot. Though that admiteddly doesn't help us with today's vote.

I've actually decided conversion, based on the rules, is unlikely.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I've actually decided conversion, based on the rules, is unlikely.

Well I'd imagine these are out possible outcomes with my 1-10 scale odds on what it was...

1. No night kill sent (1/10 likelihood)
2. They tried to kill the groom, who was auto-protected (8/10)
3. The BG made a nice/lucky save (3/10)
4. Conversion (1/10)
5. Some other unknown X (1/10)

Only #1 and 3 really are clear cut good for us. 2 is terrible, as that means tonight we'll lose our chance at a major win. 4 is bad since it means we'll likely lose the game altogether. 5 is unknown of course.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Yeah, and if you weren't a wolf you'd be defending yourself right now instead of trying to once again, avoid the issue. The more you say shit like that, the more convinced I am that you are a wolf.

That's okay. I knew there was no convincing you that I wasn't, anyway.

[Barkeep49]

Why do you think it's so much more likely that they hit the groom than got a BG protection?

[Arles]

OK, I'm pretty much on board with jeheinz72's analysis as I said earlier. As to the wolf lynching, I'm thinking that barkeep and Ollie are villagers which leaves either Mau or Pass. IMO, Mau hasn't been around enough for me to vote for him - which leaves Pass. This worries me a little as he's either a true wolf who should be lynched or a valuable villager who is working hard to identify wolves. Still, he's my best guess right now so I...

vote Passacaglia

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Arles

OK, I'm pretty much on board with jeheinz72's analysis as I said earlier. As to the wolf lynching, I'm thinking that barkeep and Ollie are villagers which leaves either Mau or Pass. IMO, Mau hasn't been around enough for me to vote for him - which leaves Pass. This worries me a little as he's either a true wolf who should be lynched or a valuable villager who is working hard to identify wolves. Still, he's my best guess right now so I...

vote Passacaglia

Wait, so what is it that makes me your best guess?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I find this interesting. This is ringing some bells with me. Pass, you say that you don't want to start a bandwagon on oliegirl, yet you piled on mauboy and then switched to oliegirl...both being bandwagons.

RA, I really don't understand why you would have a problem with this. Didn't I show that I didn't want to start a bandwagon by unvoting mauboy? And really, when I voted olie, I made it 3-2 mauboy-olie. It's not like I was making it a runaway -- I was trying to even the score. Yes, people hopped on olie, but I had to choose one of the two to stick with, and olie didn't exactly help convince me with her reaction to my vote.

You're right -- I said I didn't want to start a bandwagon. Obviously I did -- but it's not that I wanted to avoid starting a bandwagon because I thought that would make me a wolf. I wanted to avoid starting a bandwagon because that generally kills villagers. I can't help who votes for olie after me!

I think this was therapeutic, though -- I'm off to see who voted for olie after me.

[Passacaglia]

UNVOTE OLIEGIRL
VOTE CLAPHAMSA

clap followed me on olie, unvoting mau in the process.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE MAUBOY1

i don't see a reason to change. he was good enough for me to vote for in the past, and now there's more people potentially supporting me, so how can i vote otherwise?

[DaddyTorgo]

so you're voting for the clap pass? brave man

[mauchow]

Okay, now that I've actually read the thread from beginning to end I understand a few things better..mainly because I missed a whole freakin' page apparently.

Moving on. At the risk of saying too much, like I always do...

My really short list of possibilities of not being bad:

Passacaglia - For whatever reason, I get a feeling that he's a good guy. Mostly that's because he defended me the most when I wasn't around. I gave a bad answer to him for why I was voting Daddy Torgo and that turned him a little against me... but whatever, that's the way she blows.


My really short list of possibilities for being bad:

Farrah- For some reason I get a sneaky feeling that she's the psycho ex girlfriend bad person. Its got to be her or Ollie, right? Just kidding. Her supposed random first day vote is what sparked my interest on her initially. Beyond that, it isn't enough for me to vote her right now.

I have one or two other names floating around right now but I'm going to try diving into some more posts first. Never mind, the search function finally kicked in....

Chief Rum- He is also on my short list of possibly baddies. Why? He was pretty disappointed in nobody getting lynched yesterday? When I look at it, however, it tells me we actually may have gained a slight advantage by keeping both and Ollie around because IMO, we're both on the good side. I know I am, so if you lost me, you'd be worse off than we are now. His unvoting of OlieGirl yesterday to make it a tie so that his name gets left off the chance of looking guilty for killing another guest. But of course when I look at it the other way, if Olie is a guest and he voted her, he'd look guilty anyways.

Rum is mainly on my fence but with one foot over to the bad side.

[Passacaglia]

clap, i see that you're in the thread -- can you explain your vote switch yesterday?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I've actually decided conversion, based on the rules, is unlikely.

I just don't think there was any good "protection candidate" so it's that I think the chances that the Wolves hit the groom on accident outweigh those that the BG and the wolves hit the same person.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

RA, I really don't understand why you would have a problem with this. Didn't I show that I didn't want to start a bandwagon by unvoting mauboy? And really, when I voted olie, I made it 3-2 mauboy-olie. It's not like I was making it a runaway -- I was trying to even the score. Yes, people hopped on olie, but I had to choose one of the two to stick with, and olie didn't exactly help convince me with her reaction to my vote.

You're right -- I said I didn't want to start a bandwagon. Obviously I did -- but it's not that I wanted to avoid starting a bandwagon because I thought that would make me a wolf. I wanted to avoid starting a bandwagon because that generally kills villagers. I can't help who votes for olie after me!

I think this was therapeutic, though -- I'm off to see who voted for olie after me.

Okay. I guess I thought you piled on oliegirl. You didn't. CR voted for her shortly after that and then clap did as well. CR changed his vote off her later and when clap voted he said:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

unvote mau
vote oli (cuz shes named after my cat)

At this point, he looks far more suspicious to me than you, so I will join you and
UNVOTE PASSACAGLIA
VOTE CLAPHAMSA

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Farrah- For some reason I get a sneaky feeling that she's the psycho ex girlfriend bad person. .

Oh that was ten years ago. I'm long since over it now.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so you're voting for the clap pass? brave man

whats a clap pass?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

clap, i see that you're in the thread -- can you explain your vote switch yesterday?

I think they are both bad.... still do, was interested to see the how that affected vote dynamics.. but mainly im a flake and cant make up my mind

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Wait, so what is it that makes me your best guess?

You seem to be setting up votes/movements each day. Either that's because you are a wolf, you are trying to pinpoint wolves or simply that you are one of the more active posters. I'm leaning towards item 3 to be honest, but I don't have a better name to vote for at this point.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Arles

You seem to be setting up votes/movements each day. Either that's because you are a wolf, you are trying to pinpoint wolves or simply that you are one of the more active posters. I'm leaning towards item 3 to be honest, but I don't have a better name to vote for at this point.

You're probably right that it's the 3rd. I don't know if I would call all of what I've been doing setting up votes or movements -- I prefer to see it as getting discussion going. I generally try to be as vocal as I can be, but I don't think that necessarily makes me more aggressive -- the people I suspected on Day 1 were mere notions, just used as a starting-off point in my mind, but it's not like I was out there campaigning for everyone else to vote my way. I'll admit to being a bit more pressing about things today, but that's cuz I'm on the block.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I think they are both bad.... still do, was interested to see the how that affected vote dynamics.. but mainly im a flake and cant make up my mind

I generally dislike theories that hinge on two or more people being bad. My guess is the wolves wouldn't really let themselves be linked with each other like that. But I understand the part about the flakiness!

[jeheinz72]

Passacaglia-3 votes
mauboy1-3 votes
Barkeep49-2 votes
clap -2 vote

Not voted:
Schmidty
Farrah
BK
NTN

I think this is where we are at this point (Lathum, definitely double check this later)

[jeheinz72]

Can Schmidty vote today?
Can NTN?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I think they are both bad.... still do, was interested to see the how that affected vote dynamics.. but mainly im a flake and cant make up my mind

If you thought they were both bad, then why did you switch your vote?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Can Schmidty vote today?
Can NTN?

I believe Schmidty can, but NTN cannot.

[Raiders Army]

Ugh. If there aren't more votes on clap, then I'll switch mine later tonight so we can avoid a four or three horse race.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Ugh. If there aren't more votes on clap, then I'll switch mine later tonight so we can avoid a four or three horse race.

So what's our case against Clap? That he piled on olie who we still don't know is bad or not?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

So what's our case against Clap? That he piled on olie who we still don't know is bad or not?

That's pretty much it. He hasn't stated a good explanation of why he switched his vote, IMHO.

[jeheinz72]

It's my experience playing with clap is that he doesn't have a good explanation for anything

I don't see enough there to merit a switch, and since I"m leaving now and will be gone until morn, I"m sticking with BK. He's flipped, he's flipped, he's wished, he's washed and I'm just really seeing a player who is trying FAR too hard to stay in the middle of the subjects and votes at hand. Like it's to carefully thought out.