WW IL - Do Werewolves Dream of Electric Sheep? Game Over, page 36

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

You could always misquote his posts and get him lynched as revenge.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Hoops will be here all week. Tip your waitress.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Day 1 Final Vote Tally

bulletsponge - 5 Barkeep49, st.cronin, Telle, Chief Rum, RendeR
DaddyTorgo - 5 Jonathan Ezarik, Swaggs, path12, AlanT, bulletsponge
ardent enthusiast - 2 KWhit, Passacaglia
ntndeacon - 1 Lathum
Lathum - 1 ntndeacon
KWhit - 1 twothree
RendeR - 1 LoneStarGirl

Did not vote: DaddyTorgo, ardent enthusiast

OK< so I think it is a safe assumption that the replicants wouldn't vote for one of their own in such a close vote.

Now we have no idea if DT is a replicant or not but mathmaticly he probably isn't. I don't think the wolves would group themselvesd together so much. I also think the wolves would want to stay away from any late controversy.

That being said we can split people up into 3 groups.

Group A- voted Bulletsponge

Barkeep49 (219), st.cronin (225), Telle (246), chief rum (259) Render (279)

Broup B- voted DaddyTorgo

Jonathan Ezarik (134), Swaggs (161), Path (251) AlanT ( 270) Bulletsponge ( 277)


Group C- Random Votes

Lathum (193), KWhit (154), Passacaglia (255), LoneStarGirl (183), ntndeacon (172), twothree (194)


I think a good place to start is with 1 wolf in each of those groups. I think it is a safe assumption the wolves spread their votes out.

Now I see some trends here and 1 thing stands out in particular. AlanT said he was voting for DT to create a tie but at the time Bulletsponge had a throw away vote on Passacaglia. Alan is way to expierienced a player to not realize Bulletsponge will change his vote, thus lynching Daddytorgo.

Then Render sweeps in late tying it up, the question is was render trying to save DT and why?

IMO Alan cleverly sealed DT's fate with his action while making Bulletsponge take the heat. Thus my vote for him.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

So in order of most suspicious to less supicious here are the people I'm looking at today:
Bulletsponge (He says he's a wolf, who am I to doubt him)
RendeR (Last minute vote still feels fishy to me. Wish we had insight on DT)
Swaggs (Whole dream conflict thing with AE)

Of these three I am much more likely to vote for Render than BS or Swaggs. At least we can use his voting as a weapon against him. I would remind everyone to watch out for the quiet ones, as it is likely that a wolf hides there letting others take the lead especially when we seem to have no clue where to go or are going in completely the wrong directions. (not that we know yet if we are working correctly yet , but it is a good guess)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Anyway, I think this game is going to be very hard to win as a village. Unless there are only two wolves out there (but i suspect 3 with perhaps a chance at 4) the village is going to have to work together to come up with a wolf. And even if we do get one, its not like we know it!

this statement doesn't jive with me, don't the rules clearly state there are 3 "wolves?"

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK< so I think it is a safe assumption that the replicants wouldn't vote for one of their own in such a close vote.

Now we have no idea if DT is a replicant or not but mathmaticly he probably isn't. I don't think the wolves would group themselvesd together so much. I also think the wolves would want to stay away from any late controversy.

That being said we can split people up into 3 groups.

Group A- voted Bulletsponge

Barkeep49 (219), st.cronin (225), Telle (246), chief rum (259) Render (279)

Broup B- voted DaddyTorgo

Jonathan Ezarik (134), Swaggs (161), Path (251) AlanT ( 270) Bulletsponge ( 277)


Group C- Random Votes

Lathum (193), KWhit (154), Passacaglia (255), LoneStarGirl (183), ntndeacon (172), twothree (194)


I think a good place to start is with 1 wolf in each of those groups. I think it is a safe assumption the wolves spread their votes out.

Now I see some trends here and 1 thing stands out in particular. AlanT said he was voting for DT to create a tie but at the time Bulletsponge had a throw away vote on Passacaglia. Alan is way to expierienced a player to not realize Bulletsponge will change his vote, thus lynching Daddytorgo.

Then Render sweeps in late tying it up, the question is was render trying to save DT and why?

IMO Alan cleverly sealed DT's fate with his action while making Bulletsponge take the heat. Thus my vote for him.

That makes no sense though. DaddyTorgo also had not voted yet. I already mentioned that neither of them had votes that mattered at the time and both could move their vote if need be. Also neither of them were around at the time, so I wasn't sure if that was even going to be the case. Out of the blue Bullet showed up and moved his vote at the end when needed to though. DT also showed up, but a bit too late.

If anything, their votes were a wash. You are only picking one side to argue here and completely ignoring the rest of the facts that don't back your story.

[Alan T]

In fact, looking back at yesterday closer, neither one really gave much of a defense at all, and wern't even around the 2 hours or 2 1/2 hours leading up to the deadline. Bullet showed up with 6 minutes to spare when he and then Render to counter him changed votes at the end. So you can't really say that I voted knowing that DT was going to die. And in fact, if the end votes hadn't been moved at all, knowing what we know now it would have been BS who had died there anyways.

Your arguement feels like a reach to me, I still stand by my vote yesterday.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this statement doesn't jive with me, don't the rules clearly state there are 3 "wolves?"

Lathum, honestly, just between you and me, I don't think I have ever fully read the rules to any WW game I have ever played. Don't read into it.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I think it would be prudent to look at

Alant (duh)
Barkeep
Path
Ntn
Cronin

Lathum was dead early and was too pissed to really follow the game I believe, I don't think that smart, Rum was barely there because of work, and the rest aren't veterans or didn't play last game

Why are you not on that list? You made it very deep in that game and are indeed a veteran. Not to mention you made the connection which is hardly stupid. I just don't buy you're "I'm a bad player" act anymore. I don't think you're a wolf (though I also don't think you're not a wolf) but if you're going off of that premise then I think you need to be on the list.

P.S. Was cronin really alive late in the game? I don't remember that at all. Jeez my memory sucks.

[LoneStarGirl]

I see Alant getting a little antsy and defensive.... I like it

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

That makes no sense though. DaddyTorgo also had not voted yet. I already mentioned that neither of them had votes that mattered at the time and both could move their vote if need be. Also neither of them were around at the time, so I wasn't sure if that was even going to be the case. Out of the blue Bullet showed up and moved his vote at the end when needed to though. DT also showed up, but a bit too late.

If anything, their votes were a wash. You are only picking one side to argue here and completely ignoring the rest of the facts that don't back your story.

so what you are saying is you cast your vote under the assumption that

1. Bulletsponge wouldn't switch
2. Bulletsponge would switch and DT would come on and vote Bulletsponge
3. No one else would make a move to break the tie

All I know is your move forced bulletsponge's hand and that IMO makes you look guilty.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Why are you not on that list? You made it very deep in that game and are indeed a veteran. Not to mention you made the connection which is hardly stupid. I just don't buy you're "I'm a bad player" act anymore. I don't think you're a wolf (though I also don't think you're not a wolf) but if you're going off of that premise then I think you need to be on the list.

P.S. Was cronin really alive late in the game? I don't remember that at all. Jeez my memory sucks.

lol you and me both... I have the worst memory which is why I usually do think I am not a great player (not a bad player, Im no DC or anything) but if i had a memory like Alant's or Hoops I would kick butt.

[Barkeep49]

I think the idea of 2 wolves plus a convert for the third wolf is entirely possible given the universe we're dealing with.

[Barkeep49]

LSG: Cronin was killed night 2 last game. I was right about that. Phew.

[Barkeep49]

I think Lathum's analysis of 1 wolf in each group is only correct if DT and BS are both villagers (or both wolves for that matter). If one of them was a wolf I would expect to see two wolves voting for a non-wolf and 1 random wolf vote.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so what you are saying is you cast your vote under the assumption that

1. Bulletsponge wouldn't switch
2. Bulletsponge would switch and DT would come on and vote Bulletsponge
3. No one else would make a move to break the tie

All I know is your move forced bulletsponge's hand and that IMO makes you look guilty.

Or perhaps I cast that vote for the reason I said last night.. and with the 5-7 people who were in there with the 30 minutes left while I talked about it, I obviously thought that others might break the tie.

BS and DT both had votes they could move which is a wash. Neither was around nor had been around for hours which is a wash. Plenty of people could break a tie either direction if they wanted to and that would only serve us by telling us more about their motivation to do so on a day 1 when we don't know sqwat.

So you obviously feel very strongly about BS being a better person to vote off than DT, but my guess is that DT actually was one of the humans that we -don't- even want around (based on his farewell comment). I am guessing he was one of the two humans that the bad guys are trying to find, so lynching him might have been just fine for us.

That is besides the point since I had no idea of that at the time, nor do I now. You seem to know alot more than I do about others this game somehow. I stated my reasons were to keep it close, with plenty of time for people to make moves if they so chose, and well two people did. If you feel BS was guilty or DT was innocent, then by all means please tell me your reasons for feeling that way. If I voted wrong, or guessed incorrectly, then so be it. However the reasons you are giving really don't make much sense.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so what you are saying is you cast your vote under the assumption that

1. Bulletsponge wouldn't switch
2. Bulletsponge would switch and DT would come on and vote Bulletsponge
3. No one else would make a move to break the tie

All I know is your move forced bulletsponge's hand and that IMO makes you look guilty.

I'm confused. How did Alan force BS's hand? If anything Alan made it easier for BS by tying up the vote. I think that in a game where we are so dependent on voting patterns forcing a late tie was a good way to reveal information about people and their allegiances.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm confused. How did Alan force BS's hand? If anything Alan made it easier for BS by tying up the vote.

Well in essence he did both. He forced him to vote DT to save his own skin and made it the obvious choice.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this statement doesn't jive with me, don't the rules clearly state there are 3 "wolves?"

But DaddyTorgo might have been a wolf, very slim chance, so there might be only 2 wolves left.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well in essence he did both. He forced him to vote DT to save his own skin and made it the obvious choice.

Ok, so then tell me.. since obviously my voting for DT to tie things up caused BS to vote for DT there.... if I had voted for say ntndeacon, you suggest that BS wouldn't have tied things up by moving his vote and he would have just left it on Passacaglia?

Come on.. .that makes no sense and you know it!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

And Third, everybody admits Pass kicked ass last game right? And today he is the first to go, I think we should look at the veterans from last game... they are smart enough to kill off the 'strongest' player if they think he is a threat to them.

Either that, or they were just really excited for WW Clue, and wanted me to get a head start on the rules!

[bulletsponge]

jeez can someone make a post without calling me "BS". i know im full of it but dont call me it. my vote yesterday was 100% save my ass vote.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Either that, or they were just really excited for WW Clue, and wanted me to get a head start on the rules!

oh Sweet you got the next game? so that is why you are dead early. go ahead and get it started big boy

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

oh Sweet you got the next game? so that is why you are dead early. go ahead and get it started big boy

no kidding, the gap between this game and last was way to long

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Ok, so then tell me.. since obviously my voting for DT to tie things up caused BS to vote for DT there.... if I had voted for say ntndeacon, you suggest that BS wouldn't have tied things up by moving his vote and he would have just left it on Passacaglia?

Come on.. .that makes no sense and you know it!

he would have moved it anyway but you guarenteed DT's death and since we have no idea if he is good or bad I have to go with the odds that he was good.

[ntndeacon]

I am going to go ahead and put my vote out there already. I am less sure about Render than any of the other main contenders talked about today, so I am going to go there with my vote.

Vote RendeR

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

he would have moved it anyway but you guarenteed DT's death and since we have no idea if he is good or bad I have to go with the odds that he was good.

I would argue that DT gurantueed his death by not doing the same thing that Bullet did. If DT had even voted at all, then it would have just bounced right back at Bullet.

You still havent told us what in your mind makes Bullet so much more guilty than DT. How did you have info about either of them yesterday that this is a much bigger issue to you?

[path12]

Originally Posted by twothree

But DaddyTorgo might have been a wolf, very slim chance, so there might be only 2 wolves left.

The thing that makes me wonder about that is the fact he didn't get back until after deadline. I tend to assume wolves are paying attention to things like that.

[RendeR]

My vote yesterday was to ensure a tie, nothing more, nothing less, didn't matter to me WHO was tied, simply that I voted to maintain the tie, and as has been pointed out a number of folks could have changed that outcome anyway and did not do so.

Also, based on teh nature of the story and the movie a CONVERSION is really not in line with how things work. There is no way to convert a human into a replicant. Perhaps creating a replicant sympathiser, but I find that VERY unlikely, so I think we can discard the comment from LSG about a possibel4th wolf, the rules say 3 and I think we only have 3.

[Barkeep49]

Ok I'm just completely unimpressed with full of BS play this game. He's still offered no defense and no dream information (whether that was color or not). Very much open to change (though I think not to Alan at this time) but I think we made a mistake yesterday and should fix it today.

Vote Bullet

[KWhit]

Well, I'm still looking at Ardent/Swaggs. The dream thing is still odd to me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I would argue that DT gurantueed his death by not doing the same thing that Bullet did. If DT had even voted at all, then it would have just bounced right back at Bullet.

You still havent told us what in your mind makes Bullet so much more guilty than DT. How did you have info about either of them yesterday that this is a much bigger issue to you?

I have no info and even if I did it wold be suicidle to say I did, it seems like you are trying to get me to tip my hand...

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I assume if DT comes back before deadline he'll vote Bulletsponge to keep himself safer, and if I go elsewhere, then its a pretty decisive vote margin.. If I vote DT to keep things close, right now it would be a tie if DT doesn't come back.. Do we know what happens in the case of a tie?

I know I am about to open a can of worms here, but in this case where we don't really learn anything from the lynch.. could it be said that a tie here isn't a bad thing?

Alan's comments from his vote post.

I don't really think his vote was suspicious and I've got no dog in this fight, but Alan, you said right there with the can of worms comment that you expected some heat for the vote, so you really shouldn't be surprised about the questions.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by path12

The thing that makes me wonder about that is the fact he didn't get back until after deadline. I tend to assume wolves are paying attention to things like that.

True. I have no clue who to vote for today. So,

vote ardent enthusiast

Reason, he failed to cast a vote on day 1. And, in post 237, he did check into the thread and probably could have cast a vote at that time. I believe he is probably a human. Like you stated wolves usually pay more attention to when a vote is due. But for now that will be my vote. I may change it before leaving for work in an hour.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have no info and even if I did it wold be suicidle to say I did, it seems like you are trying to get me to tip my hand...

While I guess that its possible that our good roles had some night 0 action or started day 1 with information, I find it highly unlikely that -IF- you were one of these roles, you would have had information on day 1 like you seem to infer. I find it much more likely that if you had such info on day 1, it would only condemn you in my eyes as the only people I would assume having such information would be a wolf. So I don't see how "probing" you for information that you might have had on day 1 is a bad thing at all.. If anything it seems to move you highly up the distrust list.

Originally Posted by path12

Alan's comments from his vote post.

I don't really think his vote was suspicious and I've got no dog in this fight, but Alan, you said right there with the can of worms comment that you expected some heat for the vote, so you really shouldn't be surprised about the questions.

Sure its fine with me if people question my moves, especially when they backfire. However nothing says that I can't answer and return with questions of my own, such as how Lathum had knowledge on day 1 to make his choice where most of the rest of us didn't.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12

I've got no dog in this fight

Ouch. I really should have picked a better phrase considering the news.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by twothree

True. I have no clue who to vote for today. So,

vote ardent enthusiast

Reason, he failed to cast a vote on day 1. And, in post 237, he did check into the thread and probably could have cast a vote at that time. I believe he is probably a human. Like you stated wolves usually pay more attention to when a vote is due. But for now that will be my vote. I may change it before leaving for work in an hour.

Why would you in the same post both vote for a person and say you believe he is probably good?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Ouch. I really should have picked a better phrase considering the news.

Ok Mike!

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not in a bad mood, I just like to have good reasons people vote for me. Your reason for tossing my name out was very suspicious in my mind, and so far alot of your actions have been fairly linked to someone who I also find suspicious (Render).. I thus far have told myself its because its your first game, but you both seem to be pushing very odd angles in my mind this game.

I tossed your name out because it paralleled Bullet's actions, which almost got him lynched.. and from the looks of things his head isn't off the chopping block yet. So what exactly is suspicious about when we're all yelling "Hey, he said he's bad.. let's kill him!" about one person to say "Hey, this guy said he's bad too"?

And how have my actions linked with RendeR? I defended his vote switch last night because I honestly would have done the exact same thing, and figured that as his wife I should at least say as much. However, I've also clearly stated that I am fully in favor of lynching him

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

While I guess that its possible that our good roles had some night 0 action or started day 1 with information, I find it highly unlikely that -IF- you were one of these roles, you would have had information on day 1 like you seem to infer. I find it much more likely that if you had such info on day 1, it would only condemn you in my eyes as the only people I would assume having such information would be a wolf. So I don't see how "probing" you for information that you might have had on day 1 is a bad thing at all.. If anything it seems to move you highly up the distrust list.




Sure its fine with me if people question my moves, especially when they backfire. However nothing says that I can't answer and return with questions of my own, such as how Lathum had knowledge on day 1 to make his choice where most of the rest of us didn't.

obvious attempt to cast suspiscoun on me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

obvious attempt to cast suspiscoun on me.

Thats pretty much what you have been doing to me the last 2 hours. My questions have legitimate merit. Your arguement is that I shouldn't have lynched DT, I should have lynched BS instead. But you refuse to give a reason for it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Telle

I tossed your name out because it paralleled Bullet's actions, which almost got him lynched.. and from the looks of things his head isn't off the chopping block yet. So what exactly is suspicious about when we're all yelling "Hey, he said he's bad.. let's kill him!" about one person to say "Hey, this guy said he's bad too"?

And how have my actions linked with RendeR? I defended his vote switch last night because I honestly would have done the exact same thing, and figured that as his wife I should at least say as much. However, I've also clearly stated that I am fully in favor of lynching him

Perhaps you just don't know me well enough then. Basically you could read into that post that my inferred message was that Render's post was so off the wall that obviously it was crazy.

[Barkeep49]

Lathum here's what I'm interested in: If you think we should have lynched bullet yesterday why aren't you voting for him again today?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Thats pretty much what you have been doing to me the last 2 hours. My questions have legitimate merit. Your arguement is that I shouldn't have lynched DT, I should have lynched BS instead. But you refuse to give a reason for it.

you said yourself you were going to get heat for your vote.

Show me where in my arguments I stated Bulletsponge was a better candidate or that you shouldn't have voted DT?

My argument was HOW you voted and the timing of it and your reasoning, not the candidates in question.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Lathum here's what I'm interested in: If you think we should have lynched bullet yesterday why aren't you voting for him again today?

well I didn't vote for him yesterday and again, someone show me where I state we should have lynched bulletsponge?

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Why would you in the same post both vote for a person and say you believe he is probably good?

Well, my plan was to change my vote to the next person to vote for ardent in the hope that they were a wolf trying to hide their vote. I can see I shouldn't have stated that I believe he was a human.

unvote ardent enthusiast

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you said yourself you were going to get heat for your vote.

Show me where in my arguments I stated Bulletsponge was a better candidate or that you shouldn't have voted DT?

My argument was HOW you voted and the timing of it and your reasoning, not the candidates in question.

You pretty much have said you assume DT is good because I condemned him with my vote. Even though you refuse to acknowledge that both DT and BS had votes to try to save themselves, and whichever one died was more due to inaction than anything else.

You still haven't stated what would have been a better move when I layed out all the possible choices and still feel I made the right choice.

From everything you are saying, all i can guess is that you are upset that we voted off one of the humans that the bad guys want to find, you wish I had just voted for BS to put him 2 votes off and kill him off instead of DT. This makes me wonder if you are bad, then BS likely isn't.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by twothree

Well, my plan was to change my vote to the next person to vote for ardent in the hope that they were a wolf trying to hide their vote. I can see I shouldn't have stated that I believe he was a human.

unvote ardent enthusiast

That's funny twothree because history is actually on your side: In the last game AE nearly missed a vote and turned out to be human.

Also, I really liked this ploy (if unsuccessful). It's great to have some fresh thinking in this game.

[Barkeep49]

Alan we have no clue that DT was one of the humans that the bad guys wanted to find. I don't understand why you keep putting that out there.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

That's funny twothree because history is actually on your side: In the last game AE nearly missed a vote and turned out to be human.

Also, I really liked this ploy (if unsuccessful). It's great to have some fresh thinking in this game.

That should read turned out to be wolf. So AE missing a vote could be construed as his wolfish play. Though I think his statement that he just didn't care about this game to be more accurate

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

From everything you are saying, all i can guess is that you are upset that we voted off one of the humans that the bad guys want to find, you wish I had just voted for BS to put him 2 votes off and kill him off instead of DT. This makes me wonder if you are bad, then BS likely isn't.

right, because as a wolf that would be a really smart play to make.