WW Dukes Versus Hunters (GAME OVER!!--See Post #1387)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Only one Hunter kill will be allowed per day

Chief, are you able to clarify if this means one kill or one kill attempt?

[Raven]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And I think that clears MartinD from being a wolf, yes?

No I don't see that.

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And I think that clears MartinD from being a wolf, yes?

As far as we know they are all wolves and this is an elaborate attempt to further confuse us. So yeah I agree with Raven, this doesn't clear anyone.

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Also, what does LL stand for, Shoveler?

Lynch Leader

[Shoveler]

I thought the roles said the medic was a duke role not a hunter role..

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

That means that we can't have any further hunter kill attempts until tomorrow, right?

Correct.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Raven

Well that's odd.
Seems a bit random that MartinD chose to watch over Font...

Agreed. font baits Vaimes into a shot knowing MartinD has her covered? Medic could be wolf or village, if I read the rules correctly.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

I thought the roles said the medic was a duke role not a hunter role..

correct

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

I thought the roles said the medic was a duke role not a hunter role..

Yes, you are correct. I somehow got myself switched around. I'll go back and edit.

MARTIND is a Duke, not a Hunter.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

As far as we know they are all wolves and this is an elaborate attempt to further confuse us. So yeah I agree with Raven, this doesn't clear anyone.

That's an interesting thought, too. Sure did happen very quickly on D2.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Raven

No I don't see that.

I agree. We just know their H/D role, not their wolf/villager role.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

Agreed. font baits Vaimes into a shot knowing MartinD has her covered? Medic could be wolf or village, if I read the rules correctly.

I have to think about this more, but something def seems off to me about this whole situation. Seems a bit early in the game to utilize this sort of play, but not if someone wanted to get scanned (Cunning). Who would be the logical person to scan of these 3 now?

I think that two of the 3 could have coordinated this, maybe all 3? Though I really need to think about it some more.

[Shoveler]

Vaimes gave font more than adequate warning before he shot

This gave martin time to protect font

Not sure what to make of that but this whole things just smells rotten.

[Raven]

So MartinD being a Duke would now just duke out of a lynch. Once we analyze this, he seems like he would need to be a logical hunter kill and not a lynch vote, if the thought is he is wolf.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Vaimes gave font more than adequate warning before he shot

This gave martin time to protect font

Not sure what to make of that but this whole things just smells rotten.

I think I lean to all 3 being involved somehow. Vaimes doesn't seem the type to be baited.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Vaimes gave font more than adequate warning before he shot

This gave martin time to protect font

Not sure what to make of that but this whole things just smells rotten.

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

I think I lean to all 3 being involved somehow. Vaimes doesn't seem the type to be baited.

Of course, font is a master baiter.

[Shoveler]

We know if Martin becomes LL he will duke

and

A hunter cant take out Vaimes without also dying..

-----

the obvious play to me is to lynch vaimes, see how that turns out and then shoot martin tomorrow based on the results.. deal with font afterwards..

but if this is just a coincidence...

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

We know if Martin becomes LL he will duke

and

A hunter cant take out Vaimes without also dying..

-----

the obvious play to me is to lynch vaimes, see how that turns out and then shoot martin tomorrow based on the results.. deal with font afterwards..

but if this is just a coincidence...

I mean, the odds of that are just...

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

I mean, the odds of that are just...

0.9%

[cheekimonk]

Exactly!

[Vaimes]

Ah, so this is why she's been ignoring me.

I guess we'll just have to kill her toMorrow.

[Shoveler]

Running through various scenarios of how that all unfolded to see what what I can come up with, and there are a few interesting possibilities.

I'll wait for someone else to point them out, I'm sure Narc will jump on what I am thinking as soon as he catches up.

[Vaimes]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

Agreed. font baits Vaimes into a shot knowing MartinD has her covered? Medic could be wolf or village, if I read the rules correctly.

That's what I was thinking.

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Vaimes gave font more than adequate warning before he shot

This gave martin time to protect font

Not sure what to make of that but this whole things just smells rotten.

She didn't even try to hint that I shouldn't shoot her, or anything. It's baffling.

[The Jackal]

Do you really think there's a cunning, brutal, AND the medic is a wolf?

[The Jackal]

That seems highly improbable

[The Jackal]

But I do think we'll need some clarity on font/vaimes.. and I'm curious to see what Martin says

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Do you really think there's a cunning, brutal, AND the medic is a wolf?

It's possible.. can't rule it out.

Remember timmae was the black ajah bodyguard in the WoT game. If everything was handed out randomly it's definitely a possibility.

[cheekimonk]

I'm not sure MartinD could have picked up on the real threat on his own in time to protect font. I don't know about Vaimes, but I think font and MartinD had some coordination. Or Vaimes and MartinD. All 3 coordinating? Hmm.

Also, would a wolf Medic burn his ability so soon and for the confusion? Unless they have items to pass around.

[The Jackal]

I'm never one to completely clear people, just saying I find it unlikely. I'd rather hear what Martin has to say than speculate because I want to hear his reasoning and judge it.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

A hunter cant take out Vaimes without also dying..

Why not?

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by Raven

Why not?

Because he's still a hunter, just without ammo. Unless I missed something in the rules.

[Raven]

Hunters can't be shot?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Raven

Hunters can't be shot?

If a hunter shoots a hunter they both die.

[Raven]

Btw if this is a coordinated effort among 2-3 of them, then they're clearly holding enough items and/or there are 4 wolves, and they've come up with a plan to get to parity really quickly. Or at least get them close enough to parity that they'd only need the final wolf to get through 1-2 days.

[The Jackal]

That'd be ballsy if all three are wolves. I expect that one of font/vaimes won't last much longer, whether via lynch or kill. Though, they would still have 2 more hunter/duke moves to potentially play with.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Raven

Btw if this is a coordinated effort among 2-3 of them, then they're clearly holding enough items and/or there are 4 wolves, and they've come up with a plan to get to parity really quickly. Or at least get them close enough to parity that they'd only need the final wolf to get through 1-2 days.

Agreed. You stated my point better than I.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

If a hunter shoots a hunter they both die.

Gotcha.

Chief, is this an absolute or can items nullify this rule?

[The Jackal]

Some of the items could stop a kill from happening but none of them seem to stop a hunter/hunter duke/duke double death.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Some of the items could stop a kill from happening but none of them seem to stop a hunter/hunter duke/duke double death.

To clarify, only items that prevent the kill BEFOREHAND would prevent Hunter/Hunter or Duke/Duke. Think we're saying the same thing...just wanted to make sure.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

Of course, font is a master baiter.

Seriously, nothing? Tough crowd...

[EagleFan]

Jeez, a lot to sort out. I'll start with the fun part (kind of like a logic puzzle)/


font is the key to that whole mess (sort of).

If she is a villager that pretty much clears up MartinD (no way a wolf makes that save).

If she is a wolf, well then things get a little iffy. It doesn't clear or condemn MartinD in that case.


Okay, let's think this through:

The possibilities are:

A
font village
MartinD village
Vaimes village

B
font village
MartinD village
Vaimes wolf

C
font village
MartinD wolf
Vaimes village

D
font village
MartinD wolf
Vaimes wolf

E
font wolf
MartinD village
Vaimes village

F
font wolf
MartinD village
Vaimes wolf

G
font wolf
MartinD wolf
Vaimes village

H
font wolf
MartinD wolf
Vaimes village


(think I got all the combos)

[EagleFan]

We should be able to rule out C and D. If either of those are the play then MartinD deserves to win for that bold move.

[EagleFan]

Just saw I have H incorrect as far as the possibilities go, that should have all of them as wolves in that scenario.

[The Jackal]

no triple wolf possibility? that's already been floated, though i find it unlikely

[The Jackal]

heh, there it is, continue

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Raven

Gotcha.

Chief, is this an absolute or can items nullify this rule?

Hunters can't shoot and kill other Hunters without dying, and Dukes can't Duke to other Dukes without dying.

[EagleFan]

With that said, I can't see H being a high probability with the wolves starting out with 2 villagers killed on day one. Why put themselves on our radar?

[EagleFan]

Changed to correct my mistake:

A
font village
MartinD village
Vaimes village

B
font village
MartinD village
Vaimes wolf

C
font village
MartinD wolf
Vaimes village

D
font village
MartinD wolf
Vaimes wolf

E
font wolf
MartinD village
Vaimes village

F
font wolf
MartinD village
Vaimes wolf

G
font wolf
MartinD wolf
Vaimes village

H
font wolf
MartinD wolf
Vaimes wolf

[timmae]

I am back to the game... sorry I missed most of the day. Crazy long meetings. I am reading through and will post some thoughts later on. I'll be on a bit tonight but tomorrow will be a more productive day for me here.

[EagleFan]

Sorry, F needs to be red too.