Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[SnDvls]

vote CW innocent

with only one canidate I don't buy the whole "we need to kill someone" routine we always get in. There are a lot of assumptions being made and not knowing any victory conditions ect. I can't just assume he is bad at this point.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was pretty sure that cronin said lawyers won't know if their services were hired until the end of the day. So you wouldn't know yet Swaggs.

Also I am going out on a limb here but guessing that there are some wealthy traitors and some less wealthy traitors.

st.cronin said the lawyers will not know until just prior to when their services will be used, or at the lynch deadline.

[Tyrith]

Darnit darnit darnit. I'm about in the same state Swaggs is now...I don't have anything specific, but I feel REALLY bad about this lynch now. So, for now, at least, I'm going to flip flop. Will probably come back to haunt me one way or another eventually.

UNVOTE KILL CW

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I thought st.cronin said somewhere that the lawyers wouldn't know they were hired until after the fact...

Or was I dreaming that?

You are correct--I was just pointing it out in case anyone thinks I am changing my vote because CW hired me.

He has not at this point, but I may find out that he did tonight.

Just wanted to be clear.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was pretty sure that cronin said lawyers won't know if their services were hired until the end of the day. So you wouldn't know yet Swaggs.

Also I am going out on a limb here but guessing that there are some wealthy traitors and some less wealthy traitors.

Ditto my previous post. I just wanted to make clear that my motive for unvoting CW was not because he is employing me (although that may happen, I won't know until tonight's deadline).

I think it is a good bet that the traitors are randomly placed amongst us, so you are likely right about the wealth of some of the traitors. I feel like CW said something that makes me feel he is loyal to the Republic and, therefore, would rather keep him alive than to sacrifice him to learn more about the game dynamics. Nothing concrete, just my point of view.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Ditto my previous post. I just wanted to make clear that my motive for unvoting CW was not because he is employing me (although that may happen, I won't know until tonight's deadline).

I think it is a good bet that the traitors are randomly placed amongst us, so you are likely right about the wealth of some of the traitors. I feel like CW said something that makes me feel he is loyal to the Republic and, therefore, would rather keep him alive than to sacrifice him to learn more about the game dynamics. Nothing concrete, just my point of view.

Well, what did he say? I'd like to know as I have a vote to lynch out there. If there is evidence that he is good, I would definately consider that.

[DaddyTorgo]

heh. and of course 2 posts before my voting to toss him off the rock, CW makes a good point about how he came out suing for personal gain in a very un-wolfy move this early in such a large game, and how with one choice we don't gain any insight into anything with the votes of him (except with as i proposed, everyone including an explanation with their vote)

[Poli]

VOTE BARKEEP FOR CONSUL

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, what did he say? I'd like to know as I have a vote to lynch out there. If there is evidence that he is good, I would definately consider that.

He subtly used a term that was similar to what was in my role description today in one of his defense posts. After re-checking his posts from early in the game, he used it there, as well.

As I said, nothing concrete, but enough that I would not feel good about voting for him to die today. I understand the logic behind voting for him, so that we can figure out what is going on, but I feel like there is a pretty good chance that he is loyal to the Republic and in combination with his wealth, I think we want him alive and on our side.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

He subtly used a term that was similar to what was in my role description today in one of his defense posts. After re-checking his posts from early in the game, he used it there, as well.

Yes, I realize I'm actually contradicting someone who is in my corner by saying thus, but my role description was about as short, generic and vanilla as you could possibly get. It was of course, mentioned I was the Yak Overlord, but, well, yeah.

So to be totally honest, if you read into something I said and think you got some sort of role info out of it, I can't even begin to fathom what. I haven't made any subtle attempts to give out any such information (largely 'cause there ain't nothing to give out).

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Yes, I realize I'm actually contradicting someone who is in my corner by saying thus, but my role description was about as short, generic and vanilla as you could possibly get. It was of course, mentioned I was the Yak Overlord, but, well, yeah.

So to be totally honest, if you read into something I said and think you got some sort of role info out of it, I can't even begin to fathom what. I haven't made any subtle attempts to give out any such information (largely 'cause there ain't nothing to give out).

I was going off the assumption that, on Day 1, there were only a handful of folks that used the word "Republic" in their opening quote. Bonus for it being capitalized, as that is how it appeared in my PM.


You used the word "Republic" again in post #359.

The reason I give this some weight, besides the fact it is in my role description, is that stcronin did not use that word at all in any of the introduction posts (although he did say REPUBLICAN once). So, I think folks picking through the rules and generic descriptions would be more apt to pick out something derived from "Rome" or loyal Senator or something of that kind.

Perhaps I overthought things, but there is the thought process that, along with your post about your wealth being an asset to the Republic, lead me to remove my vote from you.

And, for what it is worth, it is also the reason I placed one of my votes on Autumn. He has been mentioning the term quite a bit throughout, as well.

[ImTheCrew]

OK guys i just spent over an hour catching up 6 pages of post
Im still sort of confused about the game but im starting to understand a bit more.

I have yet to be sued and would like to be sued

and ill make the following Cases

IMTHECREW SUES BULLETSPONGE
IMTHECREW SUES ALAN T

Bulletsponges inactiveness seems to be a Noobie Tarq(even though i have been very inactive but im cought up and will be around alot more)

VOTE KWITH TO CONSUL
VOTE BARKEEP TO CONSUL

Seems to be two people who will get the job done

VOTE CW INNOCENT

[ImTheCrew]

Dola- Forgot to say that im sorry i dont remember there Roman names i hope this isnt a problem

[Autumn]

Wow, I obviously have a lot to catch up on since last night. I will be busy and out until this evening, so I'll try to catch up then.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I don't know what he means by "The Tribune." Does that mean that we will collectively vote for who's arrested today?

i am the Tribune, so apparently, the duty will fall to me if no replacement is found

[saldana]

vote barkeep for Consul

vote execute CYW

sorry again CYW, but take solace that i only vote for your death in the hopes that it benefit us in the end...i really think we need to see the information that is revealed upon death in order to make better decisions in the future, should we find ourselves in similar situations.

[Coffee Warlord]

My other vote for Consul...

Elect Autumnus Leavus to Consul

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I thought st.cronin said somewhere that the lawyers wouldn't know they were hired until after the fact...

Or was I dreaming that?

This is true, and perhaps requires clarification.

The "characters" of Swaggus Swaggus and Ardentus Enthusiastus will know they hav been hired. However, bound by confidentiality, the players are not permitted to reveal who has hired them. Thus, for gameplay purposes, the players do not know who has hired them until that fact becomes public.

Another question: If I don't get a volunteer to replace WVUFan's spot in the game, his Consular duties will be taken up by the Tribune of the Plebs, also known as Saldana. This will be for one day only, since tomorrow we will have two new Consuls.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I was going off the assumption that, on Day 1, there were only a handful of folks that used the word "Republic" in their opening quote. Bonus for it being capitalized, as that is how it appeared in my PM.


You used the word "Republic" again in post #359.

The reason I give this some weight, besides the fact it is in my role description, is that stcronin did not use that word at all in any of the introduction posts (although he did say REPUBLICAN once). So, I think folks picking through the rules and generic descriptions would be more apt to pick out something derived from "Rome" or loyal Senator or something of that kind.

Perhaps I overthought things, but there is the thought process that, along with your post about your wealth being an asset to the Republic, lead me to remove my vote from you.

And, for what it is worth, it is also the reason I placed one of my votes on Autumn. He has been mentioning the term quite a bit throughout, as well.

I am hesitant about this for three reasons.

1) He wasn't the first to use it, so could have copied from someone else. (Kwhit was the first to use it, Coffee was the second I believe)

2) Cronin could have changed up wording in PMs a good bit to try to keep people from using PM matching to build trusts (Such as having varying words in different good guy PMS and having some of the same words in some of the bad guy pms).

3) I don't like using PMs to build trust lists in the first place.

You are right, he did say it though, and I hadn't noticed that before now. It was in my pM as well and I've referenced the republic alot this game in my conversation, but he did say it before anyone else other than Kwhit. I just think if we rely on that too much it will lead us in a trap at some point though. I still haven't voted for CW's being kicked off the rock, and am leaning towards not to right now, but does anyone have a vote count currently of who and how many people have voted for him?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

OK guys i just spent over an hour catching up 6 pages of post
Im still sort of confused about the game but im starting to understand a bit more.

I have yet to be sued and would like to be sued

and ill make the following Cases

IMTHECREW SUES BULLETSPONGE
IMTHECREW SUES ALAN T

Bulletsponges inactiveness seems to be a Noobie Tarq(even though i have been very inactive but im cought up and will be around alot more)

VOTE KWITH TO CONSUL
VOTE BARKEEP TO CONSUL

Seems to be two people who will get the job done

VOTE CW INNOCENT

Want to explain the reason behind suing me? You only explained why for Bullet's case.

[KWhit]

I was trying to avoid going down this road to build trust, but since the cat's out of the bag, I did use the word Republic first - not intentionally as a ploy to communicate that I was a good guy, but if it raises some people's trust in me, so be it.

[Tyrith]

I think I'm getting Stockholm's syndrome with CW now. Someone just tell me what to think about him.

[Chief Rum]

I didn't save as much time this morning as I thought, so I will have to be quick.

VOTE INNOCENT COFFEEUS WARLORDUS

I just don't think we should throw anyone off of the rock until we have at least heard some lawsuits. Alan's arguments have some merit, but they are Day 1 reasons with little evidence to give them weight. It's enough for Day Five. Not for Day One.

VOTE KWHITUS CONSUL
VOTE NARCIZO CONSUL

KWhit seems the popular choice from what I have read, so I will roll with it. Narcizo is someone whose opinion for which I have a growing respect, plus he'll probably be around when I get home.

One last thought, if it hasn't already been brought up (I haven't read the last two pages. There has been conjecture that wolves appear to not have a night kill. But we have a purchased service that is essentially a bodyguard (someone bought it yesterday and said what it was, I forget who, the legionnaire). Why bodyguard if no night kill? Ergo, there must be a night kill at some point available to the Tarqs.

If it's already been pointed out, of course, this is poiintlessly redundant.

Have a good day everyone!

[Peregrine]

After reading through all of today's messages, I'm going to have to join with those who think CW is innocent. As I said before, in this case, I don't think killing him is going to help our case. Given that we don't have free choice in our votes, voting on any one person without information is just not that helpful.

vote Coffee Warlord innocent

As for the Consuls, I have to admit I'm not sure. For now I'll give my support to Kwhit who seems to at least want the job, enthusiasm can perhaps cover over any weaknesses in his character.

vote Kwhit

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I'm not sure this is really a safe opinion to have as a villager in a WW game, no matter how much you want to instinctively trust your friends.

Agreed with that. In fact it seems a very odd comment for Anxiety to make. How can you possibly trust someone from game to game?

[Narcizo]

OK we now have a bandwagon for voting CW innocent. I can understand that, I don't think there is any real evidence against him (that mentioned by Alan T didn't really strike me as damning at all, a fact he admits himself). However I think that it's in everyone's interest to keep the vote close - a bandwagon to free him is just as pointless as one to execute him - so I won't be moving my vote despite reservations.

I'm going to have another quick read through to decide on my second Consul vote. (although one candidate mentioned does jump out at me )

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I have noticed the pattern in whom you have chosen to sue, but any reason why you decided to leave one individual out from a lawsuit?

Also I can not be re-elected today. The earliest I could be elected again as consul if people so chose would be on day 4.

Oh, nothing. Didn't st.cronin say that the guy I omitted was being replaced? That's why I didn't include him.

Ok then.

Vote for hoopsguy as Consul.

[Neon_Chaos]

dola.

two consul votes, right?

my other vote... bah

Vote for Consul -> Peregrine

Might as well. A little nod the guy who started the entire trend here in FOF.

[Narcizo]

For the reasons I've already hinted at (I won't be around immediately after deadline) I don't think I'm a very good choice for Consul. My instinct is to trust someone who comes out and says that they want the job. I know politics teaches you that you're not supposed to vote for someone who wants you to vote for them but I think making a move for a consulship at this stage of the game would be a very bold move for a wolf. Admittedly Barkeep is experienced player who could very well make such a bold move as a wolf but if we both scan and guard the two consuls then I think we could make it a reckless move rather than a bold one for a wolf to make. To be honest I think a person basically nominating someone else out of the blue is a far more wolfish move.

Vote Barkeep for Consul

[Narcizo]

And that would be me for tonight. I really hope we have two candidates to vote for tomorrow.

[LoneStarGirl]

vote kwit for consul

execute Cheif Rum

[Poli]

Ain't that odd.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

execute Cheif Rum

I'm just sort of hopping on and off today, barely keeping up, but this vote will be recorded as a NO LYNCH vote. I haven't noticed if there are any other illegal votes or not.

[Tyrith]

BK seems like a decent enough consul candidate. I can't come up with a spectacular reason to not vote for him, at least. Woo consensus building!

ELECT BARKEEPUS...whatever whatever blah blah

[st.cronin]

I've already recieved a couple of bids for services that were available YESTERDAY but not TODAY. Please check the list carefully.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I was going off the assumption that, on Day 1, there were only a handful of folks that used the word "Republic" in their opening quote. Bonus for it being capitalized, as that is how it appeared in my PM.


You used the word "Republic" again in post #359.

The reason I give this some weight, besides the fact it is in my role description, is that stcronin did not use that word at all in any of the introduction posts (although he did say REPUBLICAN once). So, I think folks picking through the rules and generic descriptions would be more apt to pick out something derived from "Rome" or loyal Senator or something of that kind.

Perhaps I overthought things, but there is the thought process that, along with your post about your wealth being an asset to the Republic, lead me to remove my vote from you.

And, for what it is worth, it is also the reason I placed one of my votes on Autumn. He has been mentioning the term quite a bit throughout, as well.

I hate it when we play games like this with PM words.

[bulletsponge]

i would sue ImTheCrew, but i wonder if one of the peeps for hire can be assassins?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I hate it when we play games like this with PM words.

I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. I was asked, by Gramm, why I changed my mind and, essentially it is the first day vote here, so that was a deciding factor for me.

I have not made a plead for CW one way or another and said that I have nothing concrete. Everyone is entitled to their own vote, but avoiding the question from Gramm seemed foolish to me.

[Swaggs]

By the way, I don't like that Chief Rum came out running for Consul earlier today and then did not vote for himself. I don't think it makes him look guilty or anything, but it makes me not have faith that he feels that he will be available or up to task for the job, so...

Unvote Chief Rum for Consul

Vote KWhit for Consul

KWhit usually plays a sensible game and he has earned a bit of trust from me for being the first to mention that he is loyal to the Republic.

[Alan T]

So, I just got back home a bit ago and looked at where we were with votes. It appears we need a majority of votes to throw CW off of the rock, so with 28 players, that would be 15 votes needed. The two consul votes I believe are the two candidates with the most votes.

Consul:

(11) Kwhit - Sndvls (283), Ardent (327), Coffee Warlord (359), Narcizo (363), Anxiety (374), Tyrith (375), Bulletsponge (395), Imthecrew (412), Chief Rum (423), Peregrine (424), Lonestargirl (431)
(7) Barkeep - Barkeep (285), Grammaticus (400), Ardent (408), Imthecrew (412), Saldana (416), Narcizo (429), Tyrith (434)
(2) Chief Rum - Swaggs (342), Anxiety (370)
(2) Autumn - Swaggs (366), Coffee Warlord (417)
(1) Dodgerchick - Alan T (333)
(1) Grammaticus - Grammaticus (400)
(1) Narcizo - Chief Rum (423)
(1) Hoopsguy - Neon_chaos (427)
(1) Peregrine - Neon_chaos (428)


prisoner vote:

(6) Throw CW off rock - Barkeep (285), Narcizo (298), Anxiety (370), DaddyTorgo (393), Grammaticus (400), Saldana (416)


Lawsuits:

Chief rum sues Lonestargirl
Narcizo sues Peregrine
Neon_Chaos sues Anxiety, Antmeister, Autumn, Barkeep, Path, Peregrine, Sndvls
Alan T sues Chief Rum, Barkeep
Kwhit sues Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo, Hoopsguy, Narcizo, Neon_Chaos, Tyrith
Imthecrew sues Bulletsponge, Alan T

[Alan T]

My last post did not include Swaggs vote switch, but that didnt affect much as it appears Kwhit is a bandwagon landslide right now (And Barkeep is closing nearby).

I find a few people's moves today rather interesting in how they've conducted themselves and tried to just "go with the flow"

[Alan T]

I have one more consul vote, so will go ahead and use it:

Elect Swaggs to Consul

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I have one more consul vote, so will go ahead and use it:

[b]Elect Swaggs to Consul

Nothing against Swaggs, but are you sure it's wise to give the Consul powers to one of the lawyers?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Nothing against Swaggs, but are you sure it's wise to give the Consul powers to one of the lawyers?

Well considering I know what a Consul can and can't do, I personally don't see much that a lawyer in the position would be able to do to abuse it more. Its not like a lawyer can force people to vote for someone they arrest, and a consul is under the thumb of the tribune whom can veto one of their moves.

So far watching today closely, I just feel Swaggs has been the least self serving, has had excellent questions, answers that seemed well thought out and thus my choice. Is he treasonous? I don't know, but I hope not.

[Coffee Warlord]

Fair enough, and for what it's worth, I agree with you about Swaggs's overall conduct.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

vote kwit for consul

execute Cheif Rum

Heh, interesting

[st.cronin]

This is what I have for Consul votes, please correct me if I'm wrong:

The wealthiest men in Rome are:

Bulletus Spongeus			KWhit
Dodgus Erchickus
Imus Thecrewus				KWhit		Barkeep

The following Senators are known to be extremely wealthy:

Coffeus Yakus Warlordus			KWhit		Autumn
Ironsus Headus
Lonestarus Girlus			KWhit
Marcus Vaughnus
Schmidtyus Schmidtyus

The following Senators are known to be moderately wealthy:

Abeus Anxietus				KWhit		Chief Rum
Antus Meisterus
Autumnus Leavus
Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus		Barkeep
Pathus Twelveus
Peregrinus Barbarus			KWhit
Snus Dvlus				KWhit
Westvus Fanus

The following (remaining) Senators are of ordinary wealth for the Senatorial class:
Alanus Teeus				Dodgerchick	Swaggs
Ardentus Enthusiastus			Kwhit		Barkeep
Chiefus Rumus				KWhit		Narcizo
Daddyus Torgous
Grammus Atticus				Barkeep		Grammaticus
Hoopus Guyus
Kayus Whitus
Narcizus Lispus				KWhit		Barkeep
Neonus Chaosus				Hoopsguy
Saldanus Lathumus			Barkeep
Swaggus Swaggus				Chief Rum	Autumn
Tyrus Ithus				KWhit		Barkeep

[KWhit]

I don't have a strong feeling either way on anyone at the present time, but will vote for Barkeep as I feel that he is a strong player who will do the right thing in his leadership position (assuming he is loyal to Rome). And I get a slightly good vibe from him, but nothing too solid yet, unfortunately.

VOTE KWHIT FOR CONSUL
VOTE BARKEEP FOR CONSUL

And I will NOT be voting to kill CW today unless new information comes out between now and the deadline. I don't think we learn much from killing him and he has been a solid presence so far - I hate to get rid of one of the more vocal players at this point for no good reason.

[Schmidty]

Schmidtyus has been AWOLUS. I hate that the WW forum isn't in GD anymore.

I just woke up. I'm home for a bit before I go to the park with my daughter for a picnic lunch. Anyway, I seem to have a moderate amount of catching up to do, but you'll hear from me later.

[Barkeep49]

While I like the reasoning used to advance Swaggs, I think KWhit is the other stronger candidate right now for consul. Therefore I will be endorsing him with my other vote.

Vote KWhit for Consul