WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[The Jackal]

Just want to throw out there that I've never seen the show (not sure if I mentioned this before) and I have no idea if my powers match up, or what not.

In case I can't get online from work tomorrow before the deadline -

Vote Render

It's just a feeling, I really have no factual information to go on. Maybe it'll encourage some further talking.

[st.cronin]

These are the votes I have counted:
claphamsa - 2 - Alan T (331), nfg22 (357)
Thomkal - 1 - claphamsa (318)
ardent enthusiast - 1 - st.cronin (328)
Alan T - 1 - ardent enthusiast (411)
RendeR - 1 - The Jackal (415)

[st.cronin]

The voting has seemed very weird to me the last two days.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Sure - I thought that this was covered in the thread and I'm surprised at seeing multiple people (will go count it eventually) commenting on this being unresolved.

I'm trying to figure out if it is a by-product of not reading every post, or of just looking for something to talk about that brings up another person's name. But this is where I'm planning to spend my next few minutes, going through these posts.

by-product of a crazy day of work (as I mentioned) and not really reading every word of every post. If it's resolved then it's resolved...that's fine.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If it helps save you time, here are the posts you are looking for. I had them saved for my own notes for later personally anyhows.

pardon my french, but that's bullshit - my vote and my comment there in my first post was BEFORE you hashed things out with Pass. It was late last night.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

pardon my french, but that's bullshit - my vote and my comment there in my first post was BEFORE you hashed things out with Pass. It was late last night.

Uhh.. would you rather me quote your post that occured after things were hashed out with Pass? Since you were so elegant in your response here.. I guess I could swear back at you and shove it down your throat if you really want...

It was my personal notes I was keeping track of.. I didn't feel much need to record your additional comment the next day since I already had your name down as a note to watch.. So let me know if you would like me to quote your post that occured after Pass was gone from today.. if you really want.

Thanks for the polite response though.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

doesn't look like much happened this afternoon. Dissapointed that we won't get to find out what raised Pass' eyebrows about Alan though, as I was curious to hear about that. Not sure where my vote will end up, but I've got some time I guess.

Since I'm such a nice guy and don't hold hard feelings.. here you go.. Should help refresh your memories.

[Alan T]

Geesh DT.. if you're going to cuss at me, you could at least take it like a man when I prove you wrong

Anyhows.. no hard feelings here. You pushed, so I pushed back.

[Thomkal]

Doing a quick scan of the players that might be in the game, here's who I think is more likely to be in the game:

Claire Bennett-the cheerleader's gotta be there to save the world.
Issac Mendez
Hiro Nakumura
Peter Petrelli
Sylar-duh
Niki Sanders
Matt Parkman
Maury Parkman
Noel Bennet
Bob Bishop
Angela Petrelli
Mohinder Surash
Adam Monroe

I picked these because they were either/and:
-integral to the story, which may not mean too much here
-clearly defined powers that would fit in this game
-"good/evil" counterbalanced powers-the Parkmans, Hiro/Adam, and Peter/Sylar
-Members of the Company on the show, some are likely to be in the game.

Remember though that our names don't necessairly pertain to our side in this game, so we shouldn't put too much weight on someone if their name is revealed and its an "evil name" from the show.

[nfg22]

Well Im tired and dont want to think too much. I had alot of work today but seriously, I know I had a good reason for why I didnt think Pass cleared all that up. Anyways I wasnt going to vote for Alan but I was going to vote against Pass cause I thought he was stirring the kettle without cause. I know its early but im looking for something. For right now Im focused on Claph as he has voted early and without cause...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Uhh.. would you rather me quote your post that occured after things were hashed out with Pass? Since you were so elegant in your response here.. I guess I could swear back at you and shove it down your throat if you really want...

It was my personal notes I was keeping track of.. I didn't feel much need to record your additional comment the next day since I already had your name down as a note to watch.. So let me know if you would like me to quote your post that occured after Pass was gone from today.. if you really want.

Thanks for the polite response though.

sorry, just got a little up-in-arms there feeling like i'm being unfairly singled out. Maybe it did occur after Pass had hashed things out with you, but as I was reading along at work I didn't notice that though. Trying to sneak in reads of the thread as I'm supposed to be working has an impact on my ability to fully comprehend things.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Since I'm such a nice guy and don't hold hard feelings.. here you go.. Should help refresh your memories.

oh no that I agree with!!

that I posted after hearing that pass was gone but before really digging back and seeing that you two had hashed it out. and I hadn't seen that because I was busy working my ass off today.

the part that pissed me off was you quoting my little piece before my no-lynch vote from last night and trying to pass that off like it was part of me trying to get a run going on you. when it wasn't, and I was legitimately curious what pass had to say/reveal at that point.

[st.cronin]

Where are the posts where Alan and pass resolved things? I still don't see those, I've gone back through the thread a couple of times.

[nfg22]

Im with that. Honestly, not that I read back but I saw two posts where pass promised to explain and then didnt.

[Chief Rum]

Hey everyone, I am around if anyone wants to chat, but I figure most of you aren't around. Doesn't seem we learned much today.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

let me clearly explain this to clear it up -

I was offended that Alan quoted my text from before my vote last night and tried to make it look like that was me starting a run on him, because at that point nothing had been hashed out and I was just mentioning it in sort of a "recap of the day."

He is more rightous in pointing out that I mentioned it again today after Pass had left. I wasn't trying to start anything though, that was simply a function of being buried under a ton of work and trying to sneak in reads of the thread at work and missing all the details of the hashing-out. I am not really "pissed off" about that, but note that I'm not trying to start any kind of a run based on that - I'm satisfied with Pass' being satisfied before he left, especially now that I've read it all and find out that it was basically just his "gut" and not a reveal of some information or some tell or something.

Just wanted to set the record straight as my frequent reactionary-posting here with these dolas may have confused some people.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Where are the posts where Alan and pass resolved things? I still don't see those, I've gone back through the thread a couple of times.

Here is the morning conversation where it was hashed out.. I said my peace, Pass explained what things he "Saw" and why he saw them that everyone was interested in and I responded to those.

Originally Posted by Alan T

I wouldn't say I'm getting overly defensive. I'm pretty much just responding with how I feel. Path disagreed with something he thought i said, and we cleared up that misunderstanding. Hoopsguy seems to disagree with several of my points, and we've left it at that. I'm responding to you because of how you are trying to dangle my name out. Instead of saying why you disagree with what I am saying, you just say something along the lines of "he just feels off".

Agree with me, or disagree with me, but here are my points:

1) The majority of people whom have commented have stated that their power is similar to what they would expect based on what they know of their character from the show.
2) Because of #1, saying our roles in this game has the risk of pretty openly revealing also what our powers are for everyont to know.
3) Sylar based on what he does in the show, likely wants to know who has certain specific roles because those are the most "juicy" for him to target
4) Jeheinz has said that you can't equate what side someone is on in the show with what side they are on in this game. ie: Hiro or Claire could be bad here.
5) Revealing roles doesn't tell us what side anyone is on because of #4, and it puts some people at risk because of #2, thus I feel that revealing roles at this point is not a good move.
6) In games where everyone has roles or abilities or powers as is the case in this game, it seems to lead to the villagers having more information than normal games each day to go on. Typically in games when you argue whether No lynch is a viable solution or not, the response question is "What would be different day 2 from day 1?" In this game because of the extra roles, it could be quite alot. Enough to at least warrant a no lynch on day 1 to see how things pan out.


Now some people disagree with #5, some disagree with #6, both is fine since that is different people's opinions. They don't have to agree with me. You on the other hand aren't contributing anythign other than "I don't like how Alan is talking". Thats my issue with you right now, and if this was a situation that I felt a lynch was worthwhile, i would be pushing for you to be lynched.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Guess I should add onto this list my additional thought that I had this morning:

7) With all of the additional powers, I wouldn't be suprised to see some roles have the ability to "escape" a night kill such as Nathan flying away.. or to live through a night kill such as Claire or Adam Monroe... So to combat that, I agree with Hoops thought that there might be multiple night kills.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Alan, here's the post that pinged my radar. Sylar's goals are clearly stated in the rules, but you use doubt about Sylar's goals in your argument to avoid reveals.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Did you even read my post?

Originally Posted by Alan T

Dola, if you read my post, clearly the word "goals" is in reference to how he handles his night kills.. what does he do.. try to outright just kill someone? Target someone to gain a power? How does he use that power once he gains it? Can he choose each night to use a specific power he has gained in his next night kill? Can he use multiple powers? etc...

I don't even think I referenced game winning conditions once in that post... Now if it is spelled out somewhere what Sylar actually does with his powers every night, please point me to it. Otherwise I'll assume you didn't really read my post and are just scrambling in your attempt to try to cast a shadow on my attempts to provide discussion.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Alan, here was another post that pinged my radar, although reading it today, it might just be that I can't make any sense of it. Perhaps if someone else who is less familiar with the show than you has a role that I can spy on others, this would be helpful for?

I'm not bringing this up to try to accuse you -- just to figure out what you were saying.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Weren't you the person who called sarcasm "dumb" a few games back?

Originally Posted by Alan T

If someone has the role of the invisible man, or DL or some role that allows them to "spy" on another person for the night, they could then possibly see what someone is doing.. But without knowing the theme.. they would see an action and not necessarily know if the action is one you would expect from a good role or a bad role.

My point was by listing out the possible actions we could expect to see, that player then could witness the action of another, and try to discern on their own if they feel it is something you would expect of a specific role and then have more information on whether or not to reveal something. It would be ashame for someone to reveal themselves only for clarification of a role that appears likely harmless or good in nature.

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not being sarcastic at all. I get burnt out in WW games often because I feel people as a group tend to just gloss over my posts or not really pay attention to what I say.. It was a reoccuring "joke" in a recent game when people would come up with -ideas- that I had previously given.

I honestly am wondering if you really read my post or just glossed through it. Because your comment about that post doesn't even match to what I said in that post. It was like you were just throwing out arguements for the sake of trying to trash me. If it was simply you just glossed over my post.. then well that is not a wolfish thing, its just damn frustrating to me that people keep doing it to me.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Well, good luck figuring it out!

After these conversations, Pass pretty much dropped it and continued on in other discussion with Lathum, Cronin and myself throughout the day. Like I said, he seemed to jump at something that wasn't really there, but the intriguing thing to me are the individuals who are remained fixated on it. I already predicted some people were possibly going to try to use it to try to steamroll a vote on me, and when I turn up good point the blame back at Pass instead.

I'm just making it very clear that if people want to vote for me, they'll need to find their own reasons to do so and not some make believe reason that someone else supposedly hinted at

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Hey everyone, I am around if anyone wants to chat, but I figure most of you aren't around. Doesn't seem we learned much today.

I'm around a little longer if you want to chat. Not sure what there is to chat about, I feel I've chatted enough already this game. But if you want conversation I'm around

[st.cronin]

Alan, I am not looking for a reason to vote for you. But in those posts that you quote, it doesn't look as though you and Pass are really "resolved." He did leave his vote on you yesterday.

Like I said, I'm not looking for a reason to vote for you, I'm just looking for possible alignments.

[nfg22]

Im with the Croney on this one...Im confused when I read all that. Basically you said alot of vague and non-important things, pass said something and you asked him if he read it, then he says good luck...how is that resolving it?

[st.cronin]

Dola, I'm more than willing to entertain other possibly fruitful topics if anybody prefers.

[nfg22]

I dont know who to be suspicious of...you or pass..Then again I dont really understand what went on and maybe I am making something out of nothing...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Alan, I am not looking for a reason to vote for you. But in those posts that you quote, it doesn't look as though you and Pass are really "resolved." He did leave his vote on you yesterday.

Like I said, I'm not looking for a reason to vote for you, I'm just looking for possible alignments.

Well right now I'm thinking you, Ardent, Nfg and DaddyTorgo seem like a pretty likely alignment based on how you all have been approaching me. But I'm guessing thats not quite what you had in mind?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Im with the Croney on this one...Im confused when I read all that. Basically you said alot of vague and non-important things, pass said something and you asked him if he read it, then he says good luck...how is that resolving it?

Thanks for classifying my effort to try to provide conversation as vague and non-important.

I'm out for the night. This is the type of thing that does get to me after a while in WW and why I take breaks at times. Disagree if you want, but bleh whatever.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Thanks for classifying my effort to try to provide conversation as vague and non-important.

I'm out for the night. This is the type of thing that does get to me after a while in WW and why I take breaks at times. Disagree if you want, but bleh whatever.

I think you are acting like a baby. Add something please..

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by nfg22

I think you are acting like a baby. Add something please..

I've asked Jeheinz to replace me in this game. I've about had it with the name calling, the swearing and the rude behavior. I don't even know who you are, so perhaps you are a nice guy.

This is acting like a baby

Unvote Claphasma

Vote nfg22

[nfg22]

Seriously. I voiced some questions and all you can say is that this is what makes you tired of the game. Now you are quitting? Man. Im sorry we have a little discussion and heat coming.

[st.cronin]

Aw geez.

[nfg22]

I usually try to be nice...Im sorry if I offended you. Yet, take a little heat man. Last game everyone killed me cause I talked alot, which I am again, but I didnt quit and hate it.

They voiced complaints at me for two days, yet I took it. Now I am back.

Just deal with it bro.

[st.cronin]

I do hope Alan comes back. DT was out of line, but did apologize. I don't know what to make of you, nfg, but I do hope you'll offer an apology.

[DaddyTorgo]

I was out of line.

I did apologize in-thread, and I also just sent a PM to Alan apologizing personally. I also was not name-calling per se, as much as I was expressing anger at what I felt was an inaccurate assessment. I didn't say "Alan you're a _____." I said "That is ______."

But regardless, I was out of line to use such language (I don't curse a lot at all in person, so it's very unusual for me), and I have apologized.

nfg...is just being a punk.

[nfg22]

I said sorry. I still think that is being a poor sport. I know that may not be nice but I think it is true. Sorry Alan, I will not call names.


Seriously though can you give a reason on how you and pass resolved all that? Explain what happened in a short paragraph?

[st.cronin]

I'm out for the night, I sincerely hope Alan doesn't quit.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, this is silly. And unfortunately, I don't really buy that anyone (except wolves) know anything at this point, so I'm going to have to pick out someone to vote for.

I am going to go with Thomkal on the theory that either Pass or Alan T were pushing too hard. Yeah, it's weak.

VOTE THOMKAL

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I assure you, nfg, nobody would be able to guess my ability if I revealed my character's name.

Seriously then. Is there any reason not to reveal your name? If nothing else it should clear you from being Sylar. (seems like a huge risk for him to guess an unused name at this stage). The reason I've been against name reveals is because it could reveal powers. If it really is impossible to deduce your power from your name I don't see much reason to hold onto it.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So, up to this point I haven't seen a bunch of information learned on Day 1 that validates the idea of No Lynch. Not really meant to be an "I told you so" but an observation that may influence my decisions on this type of call for future games.

That's a fairly bizarre comment to make. What did you expect to happen? A seer to come out and say "hey! X is a wolf". Of course you haven't seen a bunch of information coming out. That doesn't mean the information isn't there, providing a bit of help to some villagers. Shirley.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So, up to this point I haven't seen a bunch of information learned on Day 1 that validates the idea of No Lynch. Not really meant to be an "I told you so" but an observation that may influence my decisions on this type of call for future games.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, for what it is worth I'm of a mind to reveal information tomorrow about my role and data I've collected. So far I don't have anything that is going to help with the vote today (other than don't vote me!) but I'm willing to take this leap at the start of Day 3. Particularly if we aren't seeing more information revealed that is going to help narrow the field in catching Sylar or Company folks.

These posts just struck me as odd. If you have a role that allows you to collect information/data, then having a no lynch on Day 1 would mostly be a plus for you, because you're able to collect additional information without risking killing a good guy on no information at all via the Day 1 lynch, right?

[Narcizo]

Anyway onto the whole Alan farrago. I think I've actually seen an argument like this before between (I think) Anxiety and Alan, and as a wolf at the time I was very happy to see it. Unfortunately we couldn't capitilise on the argument and in the end had to night kill Alan because he was too good as a villager to keep around. Of course this tells us that these sorts of arguments can be (and normally are, I would imagine) between two villagers.

From my limited experience of werewolf I'd say that Alan is one of the best villagers I've seen, and he certainly seems to be one of the few people here actually coming up with any ideas. (he was the first one to bring up the No Lynch idea, for example, something the majority agreed with). Sure he might be a wolf but at the moment it seems to be me that what he's been contributing makes any vote on him pretty strange. Sure he could be a wolf hiding in the open and trying to misdirect us blah blah blah but I think as villagers we gain a lot more by giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that he's a villager at this stage.

Next it seems to me that a wolf would try to make capital from the whole situation by prodding things along and trying to get some sort of case against Alan going. If you think that this is an opportunist thing then that probably means it's not Pass/Thomkal - particularly, as Alan says, Pass could be fitted up as a scapegoat if Alan is lynched and turns up good. The tone of the exchange with DT just doesn't make me suspicious which leaves me with St Cronin and nfg, with Ardent putting a "place holder" vote on Alan with no real reason given. For want of anything better at the moment (this is, basically, a day one vote) I'll probably be voting to lynch one of these.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well right now I'm thinking you, Ardent, Nfg and DaddyTorgo seem like a pretty likely alignment based on how you all have been approaching me.

Which means that there's a 0% chance that they're a behind-the-scenes alignment, because no one is that stupid.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Thanks for classifying my effort to try to provide conversation as vague and non-important.

I'm out for the night. This is the type of thing that does get to me after a while in WW and why I take breaks at times. Disagree if you want, but bleh whatever.

Why so sensitive? I don't think he said anything wrong. This is WW, not a tea party.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I do hope Alan comes back. DT was out of line, but did apologize. I don't know what to make of you, nfg, but I do hope you'll offer an apology.

Why? WTF did he do. I'm baffled. He said Alan was being vague? Is that a bad thing now days? Man, this makes me miss Blade. There are different play styles. Not everyone is going to be hoops or Alan or CR. Name calling is obviously not good at all, but his intial comment that set Alan off was innocuous imo.

Quitting the game over it? Puhhllease. Maybe I'll quit if this is what WW has become.

[Neon_Chaos]

I actually have no opinion on the Alan T / Pass scuffle. I think it's a minor distraction that always happens early in WW and that always ends up getting us nowhere (other than to give us that feeling that we're voting with purpose).

[Schmidty]

As far as voting today - I have no idea what direction to go, as usually happens at this point in the game. I would vote Alan for the drama (perhaps a wolf trying to shed heat by loudly being "outraged and offended"), but I know that he would never go so far as to threaten to quit the game to gain leverage, so that pretty much makes voting for him senseless. Also, nfg22 is being quite aggressive, and I'm pretty sure a wolf wouldn't do that until later in the game, so that rules him out to me right now. After that, I'm not sure where to go.

At this point, I believe I'll go with someone quiet, as I'm not sure what else to do:


Vote Greyroofoo

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'd love to do more than just drive by, but I was out a lot later than I expected tonight, and I've very tired right now (probably should have gone to bed an hour ago).

Speaking of people being quiet, I don't remember seeing anything from olie in a good while. I'm unlikely to stick with this past today, but it'll do for now.

VOTE oliegirl

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

which leaves me with St Cronin and nfg, with Ardent putting a "place holder" vote on Alan with no real reason given. For want of anything better at the moment (this is, basically, a day one vote) I'll probably be voting to lynch one of these.

Thinking a bit more about this is there any real reason why we shouldn't have a No Lynch vote today as well? Hopefully there are some people who have a better idea about who one other person is/can do, but is there any over-riding reason to not let them go about collecting their information in peace? Without, in all probability, adding a villager to the deathlist with a lynch. I don't really understand what's changed so radically that the overwhelming majority (myself included, although I voted differently) were for a No Lynch yesterday but suddenly are prepared to vote on nothing more than hunches and supposition (again, myself included looking at my reasoning). Does anyone actually think that there's much more than 30% chance that their vote is for a bad guy? I certainly don't were I to vote for one of the three I've mentioned.

I can understand that people are getting itchy trigger fingers with the comparative lack of action/discussion going on but if we accept that there are multiple "detective" type roles why not let them get on with their work. When someone thinks that they have a compelling case against someone (for whatever reason) or that time really is ticking away then we can move to lynches. After another night then each person with some sort of seer ability should have a read on two people. To me that should really give us something solid to work with. Far more so than the voting patterns of a villager vs villager run off today.

I'm against no lynches in normal games but I can remember at least one case where no lynch decisions would have greatly strengthened the villagers cause. I just find it curious that there was such a run on the No Lynch option yesterday ("the only logical option" etc etc) but suddenly nobody seems to even think it's an option worth mentioning today.

VOTE NO LYNCH

There. I've said it.

[Narcizo]

Building on st cronin's list -

claphamsa 1 - Alan T (331), nfg22 (357), Alan T unvote (440)
Thomkal 2 - claphamsa (318), Chief Rum (448)
Ardent 1 - st. cronin (328)
Alan T 1 - Ardent (411)
Render 1 - Jackal (415)
nfg22 1 - Alan T (440)
Greyroofoo 1 - Schmidty (457)
oliegirl 1 - Mr Wednesday (458)
No Lynch 1 - Narcizo (459)

I think this sort of voting backs up my point that no-one seems to have much/anything to go on.

[Neon_Chaos]

I will have to agree with Narcizo.

Based on how scattered the votes cast are and the relative lack of information, we really don't have a clear direction of where to go right now. In a regular WW game, it would be easy to take a risk of losing a villager in the effort to try and weed out the wolves because not every villager had a specific ability to do for the day, and we would be more willing to sacrifice a vilager without an ability in order to try and figure out how everyone sits.

As it is, everyone has a role and an ability in this game, and it would benefit us villagers more if we try to limit the early blind lynchings if only to give those among us who have seer-like abilities to weed out the Company and Sylar, instead of helping them trim our numbers by blindly lynching as we usually do.

That is, of course, unless someone has given some hint that may have gone over our heads that we haven't been able to decipher.

So, for now.

Vote No Lynch

[Narcizo]

I may not be back until after deadline. Have fun.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I thought it was more Ardent-esque than ardentistic. But Ardent is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

True. That fits better but I was under the gun for time.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm out for the night, I sincerely hope Alan doesn't quit.

+1