Soccer Thread 2012-13

[Grover]

ESPN - OTL: Lionel Messi, Here & Gone - E-ticket

Outstanding story.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

holy fudge! Jozy with a goal the likes ive never seen from an American

Well, you're not going to see it this week in qualifiers as Jozy was left off the team.

The roster:

Goalkeepers: Brad Guzan (Aston Villa, England), Tim Howard (Everton, England), Nick Rimando (Salt Lake).

Defenders: Carlos Bocanegra (Racing Santander, Spain), Geoff Cameron (Stoke, England), Edgar Castillo (Tijuana, Mexico), Steve Cherundolo (Hannover, Germany), Maurice Edu (Stoke, England), Clarence Goodson (Brondby, Denmark), Fabian Johnson (Hoffenheim, Germany), Michael Parkhurst (Nordsjaelland, Denmark).

Midfielders: Kyle Beckerman (Salt Lake), Michael Bradley (Roma, Italy), Joe Corona (Tijuana, Mexico), Jermaine Jones (Schalke, Germany), Sacha Kljestan (Anderlecht, Belgium), Brek Shea (Dallas), Danny Williams (Hoffenheim, Germany), Graham Zusi (Kansas City).

Forwards: Clint Dempsey (Tottenham, England), Landon Donovan (Los Angeles), Herculez Gomez (Santos Laguna, Mexico), Alan Gordon (San Jose), Eddie Johnson (Seattle).

[DaddyTorgo]

Interesting question spurred by a comment when I posted that Messi story on my brother's FB wall yesterday.

If you had to start a dream team of players from the "modern era" (leaving that vague as the commenter did), would Messi be your #1 choice or not?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grover

ESPN - OTL: Lionel Messi, Here & Gone - E-ticket

Outstanding story.

Saw this outside of this thread, but yes...outstanding story.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Interesting question spurred by a comment when I posted that Messi story on my brother's FB wall yesterday.

If you had to start a dream team of players from the "modern era" (leaving that vague as the commenter did), would Messi be your #1 choice or not?

It all depends on when we consider the modern era to have begun, but probably, yes.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Interesting question spurred by a comment when I posted that Messi story on my brother's FB wall yesterday.

If you had to start a dream team of players from the "modern era" (leaving that vague as the commenter did), would Messi be your #1 choice or not?

If the "modern era" goes back includes the late 70s/80s, I'd go for Maradona. If not, then Messi.

[Easy Mac]

I was hoping this Kyle Beckermann thing was over, but Klinsy keeps bringing him back.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Critch

If the "modern era" goes back includes the late 70s/80s, I'd go for Maradona. If not, then Messi.

See...I'm not sure I'm entirely sold. Messi is an amazing individual talent, but there have always been amazing individual talents. Messi makes his teammates better by occupying defenders attention, but I might go with a more traditional #10 who could better unlock defenses rather than an individual talent.

Then again maybe we're just spoiled by seeing Messi on Barca where he doesn't have to do more than what he does. Maybe he'd be every bit as amazing a defense-unlocker with his passing as a Xavi or a Zidane if he was forced to play that role.

[RainMaker]

So I thought Klinsmann said club form would matter a lot. Altidore and Boyd have been great but are left off the squad.

Seems like some odd choices. Still feel he should be fired if he can't get them to the hex.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So I thought Klinsmann said club form would matter a lot. Altidore and Boyd have been great but are left off the squad.

Seems like some odd choices. Still feel he should be fired if he can't get them to the hex.

Strongly feel there has to be something going on behind the scenes with Altidore. Either the players don't like him, he doesn't work at all, etc.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Interesting question spurred by a comment when I posted that Messi story on my brother's FB wall yesterday.

If you had to start a dream team of players from the "modern era" (leaving that vague as the commenter did), would Messi be your #1 choice or not?

Yeah. He's the best player I've seen since I began watching soccer.

As for how far back the modern era really goes, I'm not sure.

Since the Bosman ruling (1995)? Since the last huge rule change (like football allowing forward passes or baseball getting rid of the dead ball), that of the offside rule in the 1920s?

Regardless, I'm willing to take the best of the best within the last 15 years against anyone before him, just as I would in most other sports that come to mind. Messi, Bonds, Woods, Jordan, Federer, etc.

Most sports are progressing over time, the competition is harder today, in general players are faster and fitter these days. Laver vs. Federer, Messi vs. Maradona or Pele, Bonds vs. Ruth, whatever, I would pick the modern player and take my chances in any of these situations.

Originally Posted by Jurgen Klinsmann

"I communicated with Jozy that I was not happy about his latest performances with us, maybe even over the last 14 months," Klinsmann told media on Monday during a conference call to discuss the U.S. roster. "I think Jozy can do much, much better and the reason he is not coming in is mainly because of the performances in Jamaica and at home, also in training, also certain things that went on through the May-June camp."

Ok. I can understand that even if I don't like it.

But we better not miss out on the hex because Alan Gordon did nothing when we needed a goal...

[cartman]

We look really weak in the midfield. A couple of those guys are going to have to step it up and make names for themselves if we are going to make it out of the group stage in Rio.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by cartman

We look really weak in the midfield. A couple of those guys are going to have to step it up and make names for themselves if we are going to make it out of the group stage in Rio.

Heck we need to get to Rio first which doesn't seem like an absolute lock at the moment.

[whomario]

soccer changes so much all the time, no need to look for rule changes there. It´s hard to compare even without theese. I recently rewatched the ´96 Euro championship final (Germany-Czech) and it really is like night and day compared to games today. And it wasn´t long after things changed massively, so i´d say the cutoff would be anywhere between 97 and 2000 as that´s the time that the 4 man defense really took off internationally, the beginnings of 1 striker systems were developed (for attacking football) and the emphasis on deep lying midfield playmakers started imo.

But it also depends on types of players, certain positions underwent a bigger overhaul than others (f.e. DMs, CBs changed a ton while WBs didn´t, only they were midfielders in 5-3-2 before and outside defenders in 4-5-1 now) and other positions are basically brand new or equipped with vastly different types of players (like the attacking midfielders on the outside)

The german team actually is the perfect example, being lauded as the team tactically in 96 with Matthias Sammer as the culmination of the Libero/Sweeper era whio had one of the single most dominant tournament performances ever there.
Then, only 2/4 years later there style of play was outdated and inefficient and you´d be hard pressed to make a case for any of the german players from 96 having an impact in 2006 if they played the same role.

[Grover]

One player I would consider taking first, even ahead of Messi and laugh if you want, is Claude Makelele. re defined the anchor man role and revolutionized it.

[Katon]

I wouldn't take Makelele, and that's speaking as a Chelsea fan - he's probably the best midfielder you could get as a purely defensive player, but if you have access to anyone from the modern era then you should be able to find people who contribute 90% as much on the defensive end while also being useful going forward. Roy Keane in his prime springs to mind.

What I'd like to know before making my #1 pick for a dream team is how peak form is being weighted against longevity. I'm think of the Brazilian Ronaldo here. At his peak he was almost as freakishly unplayable as Messi, across multiple teams (and, I'd guess, playing styles) and without as many all-time-great teammates. That version I'd take #1 just because I don't need to worry as much about what formation to throw him in. The post-injury version was still pretty damn good, but not to the extent that he has any business in this conversation.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Katon

I wouldn't take Makelele, and that's speaking as a Chelsea fan - he's probably the best midfielder you could get as a purely defensive player, but if you have access to anyone from the modern era then you should be able to find people who contribute 90% as much on the defensive end while also being useful going forward. Roy Keane in his prime springs to mind.

What I'd like to know before making my #1 pick for a dream team is how peak form is being weighted against longevity. I'm think of the Brazilian Ronaldo here. At his peak he was almost as freakishly unplayable as Messi, across multiple teams (and, I'd guess, playing styles) and without as many all-time-great teammates. That version I'd take #1 just because I don't need to worry as much about what formation to throw him in. The post-injury version was still pretty damn good, but not to the extent that he has any business in this conversation.

Yes. Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, maybe even Zlatan (physical size plus skill), maybe a Buffon or Schmichael for a keeper where the ones I was thinking of. There's probably a DM one could throw in there though.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Katon

I wouldn't take Makelele, and that's speaking as a Chelsea fan - he's probably the best midfielder you could get as a purely defensive player, but if you have access to anyone from the modern era then you should be able to find people who contribute 90% as much on the defensive end while also being useful going forward. Roy Keane in his prime springs to mind.

Viera was immense in his prime in a similar way to Keane, fantastic leader and also very solid in the tackle ... I think he had a little more to his technical game than Keane with a little less aggression.

PS - With regards to soccer rule changes, often the rules don't 'change' but how they're applied changes things hugely - if you look at the biggest change in formation/tactics from 1980's to today they're at least partially biased by how non-physical the game is today in contrast to back then.

[bhlloy]

My first thought if we are taking a player at peak was also Fat Ronaldo - I've never seen a player run through defenses and score for fun like he could do at his peak. An absolutely complete striker, shame he got hurt so early and often.

Im biased, but If you tell me I'm picking a player to play for me for the next ten years I might start with Giggs

[Big Fo]

Donovan and Shea are out for the two qualifiers. It leaves us kind of thin in the attacking positions.

[RainMaker]

Why did JK put them on the squad if they aren't going to play? The Guatemala game is pretty big. Not necessarily a must-win, but they definitely need a point out of it.

[Easy Mac]

Awesome job Liverpool.

duncan jenkins's blog: Such a Little Thing Makes Such a Big Difference

[Big Fo]

There's not much anyone working for that club could do that would surprise me anymore.

<--- such a menace to LFC, probably could have afforded Dempsey without him jacking up the Borini fee :****(

[whomario]

no real shockers in the WC qualifiers today, biggest result propably Russia beating Portugal

Faroe Islands come close against Sweden, 1:2 loss after a 1:0 lead.

Germany with a slow start (but without being in any danger at all), then turn up the speed to score 5 goals between the 30th and 60th, beating the Irish in Dublin 6-1 in the end.
Now the swedes to beat on Tuesday and that´d allready be a big step.

[Big Fo]

Hopefully these qualifiers are still free of shocks around three and a half hours from now.

[bulletsponge]

eddie johnson scored 20 min in
'
us leads 1-0

[VPI97]

Eddie Johnson with a header to put the US up 1-0 over A&B

[VPI97]

A&B with the equalizer at the 25' mark

[Big Fo]

A quick equalizer for A&B, poor stuff from the central defenders as the attacker blew past Cameron and then Goodson slipped leaving a tap in for Blackstock. Come on guys.

[MrBug708]

Honestly, that celebration was waaaaaaaaaay excessive.

The pitch raped Goodson

[Big Fo]

Bradley's been close with a few long range efforts. Some decent quick passing in midfield in the last few minutes.

[bulletsponge]

1-1. if they dont win this they should miss the wc. very frustrating

[RainMaker]

The Klinsmann Era: Where the U.S. struggles against minnows.

[kingfc22]

Pitiful.

[Big Fo]

Watching a beIN Sport USA stream. They even have the handball Champions League. Come on Time Warner, I need this shit.

[Big Fo]

Gomez with a genuinely terrible first touch there. Should have had a 1v1 on the keeper. Here comes another two minutes of time wasting after the collision.

[RainMaker]

One fucking shot on goal. Unreal.

[RainMaker]

And now they lose Jones for the Guatemala game. Klinsmann is feeling like a plant.

[Big Fo]

This has been another awful offensive performance so far, there's no sugarcoating it.

[kingfc22]

They might only play 10 minutes of actual soccer this half at this rate of stalling

[RainMaker]

Leaving Altidore off looks real bad considering how horrendous Gomez has been.

[Big Fo]

Zusi's crosses have been so bad (missing our guys by 10-20 yards) other than that really good one Johnson scored off of.

[cartman]

WOW! Clutch goal right at 90:00 by EJ

[kingfc22]

Wow. US will likely escape

[VPI97]

OMFG

Horrible all night, but they get one in the end...

[bulletsponge]

Johnson!!! i own him a fucking BJ!!!

[Easy Mac]

Johnson just saved Klinsmann's job

[bulletsponge]

seriously this team is not looking very good. our offense cant seem to get many shots on goal

[Big Fo]

Klinsmann has brought German efficiency to the national team, play like crap but get a few headed goals from some tall striker or off a set piece.

Seriously though, that was really bad for most of the game.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Leaving Altidore off looks real bad considering how horrendous Gomez has been.

Albeit in great from lately, Altidore lost his temper last weekend and got sent off in a crucial league game (although the referee was nitpicking with back-to-back bookings for the same thing), so it could be a disciplinary reason.