2018 College Football Thread

[miked]

Well, let's not forget that Jonathon Lewis was going to be the next coming a few years ago (at 6'3" like 120 pounds). He is now being converted to TE or some shit. His recruiting is off-the-charts bad.

I remember hearing all about 4* WR Bo Melton, who was forced to play last year and totaled 4 catches all season. I don't know what he thinks is coming in the future, his recruiting has sucked and it looks like we have 2 unranked QB committed for next year. I think he just plays Shitkowski because he's a bad coach.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

He's one of the worst P5 starting QBs I've seen. What's crazy is his 2/16 5 pick game isn't even the worst game he's played his year according to QBR. He's had adjusted QBRs of 0.9 against Kansas, 8.1 against Buffalo, and 1.5 against Maryland. For the season his QBR is 14.2. The next lowest for a P5 QB is Peyton Bender of Kansas at 31.5.

I tried to get my head around how bad this is.

ESPN AQBR doesn't go back far enough to get the worst of Jonathan Crompton but ... Quinten Dormady went 5/16 for 64 yards with 2 INT in Tennessee's 41-0 loss to Georgia.

That was a 5.6 AQBR.

Holy Hell.

[JonInMiddleGA]

People -- the random rank & file ones on the 'net -- never cease to amaze me.

Mouthbreather comment "I don't know what's wrong with Fromm. He's been off all year"

Reality check: coming into the day his completion rate was up more than 10% over last year, his YPA was up more than 10%, his TD:INT ratio was double last season, and he was 4th in efficiency among D1 QB's.

"Off"? He couldn't hit a bull in the ass today, sure, but ... "off all season"?

What the fuck are these inbred morons watching while eating their Great Value cheese curls?

[MizzouRah]

Alabama was favored by 28 and they win by 29. Sometimes I think Vegas has some sort of affiliation with the NCAA. I had Bama by AT LEAST 40, closer to 50 with both of our top WR's out again this week.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by miked

Shitkowski today one of the all-time worst games for a QB in college history. His final line was 2/16 for 8 yards and 4 picks. Backup Gio Rescigno came in for 1 pass, it was intercepted. So RU QBs on the day completed 2 passes to their own team, and 5 to the Terps. Terps had 45 yards in INT returns, RU with 8 passing.

I don't care if the buyout is $20M (it's actually $10M), time to move on fast. This team may not beat high school teams and Ash is horribly outcoached week after week. His recruiting sucks. Another year of this and nobody will come watch the team.

Of course, RU gets their big payday in 2-3 years, so they will likely hold Ash for now until the buyout goes down and they get their $$$ from the B10. What a farce.

I completely agree. In general I have a lot of apathy to my sports teams right now, but hopefully they find the money.

[bob]

When someone like Penn St does a whiteout game, do they give shirts out as you enter or do they expect people to wear / buy one at the game?

Edit: answering by own question - sounds like no:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...-games-history

Just curious because GT also sells shirts for their whiteout games but it never works. Something something fan apathy

[JPhillips]

If they win out I won't mind Michigan going to the playoff, but at this point, given who they have played, they are a very weak #6.

[bob]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Meanwhile, yeah ... GT did GT things

Im past the point of anger at this point. I keep hearing that Tech has fundamental issues that make things more difficult and I’ll have to believe that (while realizing how important is, I don’t have the time to pay attention to recruiting). And I guess I just have to accept it. I don’t like CPJ but I’d be lying if I thought anyone worth a damn would take this job. Overall the admin just doesn’t care and at this point the fanbase isn’t far behind. Losing 4 out of 5 to Duke should tell you where we sit in the ACC these days.

ND struggled for sure with Pitt, but at least didn’t fall to them like some other big names have the last few years. I have no belief that they can beat Alabama or LSU, but I think they can make the playoff and that’s good enough for me. Just get there and hope something crazy happens.

(Yes I know ND beat LSU in a bowl last year. Doesn’t mean I think they’d win this year)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bob

When someone like Penn St does a whiteout game, do they give shirts out as you enter or do they expect people to wear / buy one at the game?

Ole Miss has a designated color for every week. It's widely disseminated to students, fans, etc, determined sometime before the start of the season. Navy blue, powder blue, white, red, pretty much any/all colors that can be associated with the school.

You're more than welcome to wear your existing gear in color X but the whole thing seems to largely be a gimmick to sell merch in whatever color your wardrobe is missing / needs updating.

And this explains why I own a powder blue Ole Miss shirt.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bob

I keep hearing that Tech has fundamental issues that make things more difficult and I’ll have to believe that (while realizing how important is, I don’t have the time to pay attention to recruiting).

The fundamental issue is much as it has been during the CPJ era: he's a lousy identifier of talent and his consistently poor selection of staff members means that not only do players arrive underskilled for major D1 competition, they don't improve much during their time there either.

[cuervo72]

Is Tech not pretty much in a Vandy position though? That's always been my impression.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Is Tech not pretty much in a Vandy position though? That's always been my impression.

Is there reason to believe that Tech could beat Vandy at this point? After losing 4 of 5 to Duke?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by bob

When someone like Penn St does a whiteout game, do they give shirts out as you enter or do they expect people to wear / buy one at the game?

Edit: answering by own question - sounds like no:

Penn State’s White Out Game history - SBNation.com

Just curious because GT also sells shirts for their whiteout games but it never works. Something something fan apathy

When Iowa does it, they send out a press release and tell the fans in each section which color to wear. Iowa usually does the black and gold days. So the odd sections wear yellow, the even Black.

You are your own to wear the correct color.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If they win out I won't mind Michigan going to the playoff, but at this point, given who they have played, they are a very weak #6.

But they have to play Ohio State plus a B10 title game, right?

You have that many top 10 teams lose you'll have a shaky #6 - unless you're a UCF stan.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If they win out I won't mind Michigan going to the playoff, but at this point, given who they have played, they are a very weak #6.

They will struggle to win at MSU next week and I don’t see how they beat OSU. Michigan is great at beating up on weaker opponents, but struggle against any team of consequence, especially on the road. I think Wisconsin is just pretty highly over rated.

[bob]

I was just looking at the list of past champions in college football. Is Colorado / GT in 1990 or Washington in 1991 the last time a team outside of the top 20 powers in college football won the title? I guess maybe Miami or Tennessee.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by bob

I was just looking at the list of past champions in college football. Is Colorado / GT in 1990 or Washington in 1991 the last time a team outside of the top 20 powers in college football won the title? I guess maybe Miami or Tennessee.

I think Tennessee and Washington are considered in the top 20 powers traditionally (I think UT is around 10, UW was close to 20). GT used to be considered a top 20 power, maybe top 25. So Colorado would be my pick. When Miami last won, they were rapidly moving up the list of powers, but they have fallen significantly.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bob

I was just looking at the list of past champions in college football. Is Colorado / GT in 1990 or Washington in 1991 the last time a team outside of the top 20 powers in college football won the title? I guess maybe Miami or Tennessee.

What are you considering a top 20 power?

Is there an actual metric to gauge that?

[bob]

Originally Posted by Lathum

What are you considering a top 20 power?

Is there an actual metric to gauge that?

Nope, no metric except feels.

I've been on another board discussing GT football and its place in the current college football universe. Someone else pointed out that its been a long time since a non-traditional top 20 program won a title. I looked and feels like 1990 was probably the last time.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bob

Nope, not metric except feels.

I've been on another board discussing GT football and its place in the current college football universe. Someone else pointed out that its been a long time since a non-traditional / top 20 program won a title. I looked and feels like 1990 was probably the last time.

Got it. Wasn't trying to be snarky.

I would consider UW a top 20 power for sure, but I am biased.

TBH without knowing a whole lot of their history is Clemson really a traditional power? A quick look shows some good years in the 80s and their obvious recent run, but other than that a decidedly average program.

When I think tradition I think Bama, tOSU, USC, UT, Oklahoma, maybe a few others. Clemson doesn't really come to mind.

[Radii]

AP College Football Rankings: Greatest Programs Of All-Time

Using the final ranking in the AP poll each season as the only measurement, Clemson is 20th, Washington 22nd, Georgia Tech 25th, Colorado 30th.

[digamma]

It's tough because in the last 15 years when its neighbors have made a serious commitment to football, the GT administration has done the opposite of that. Consider that until a targeted fundraise this past summer, which led to filling specific support staff positions for two years, Duke's non-coaching football support staff (recruiting, football operations, etc.) was twice the size of Georgia Tech's. It's tough to be too upset with the current staff (and I'm as frustrated as anyone), when they're consistently being asked to do more with additional limbs tied behind their backs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

It's tough to be too upset with the current staff (and I'm as frustrated as anyone), when they're consistently being asked to do more with additional limbs tied behind their backs.

Well, the special teams coach certa ... oh. Wait.

[Scoobz0202]

How much does Georgia Tech's admissions standards play into it? I'd love to see acceptance rate, ACT/SAT score avg's, etc from those top 25 compared to Georgia Tech. I am sure there are a few roughly similar, but I've always been under the impression Georgia Tech is a very hard school to get into. Do their athletes get to skate by or do they hold them to the same standard as the student body?

[digamma]

Admissions are harder than say, Georgia, Alabama or Clemson, but lower than the standard student body. The bigger issue is that the curriculum is limited and you don't have liberal arts or general studies majors. Everyone takes calculus level math, etc.

One reason why O'Leary had so much success was that he backloaded all of his athletes schedules so relatively few were on track to graduate. APR fixed that.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by bob

Im past the point of anger at this point. I keep hearing that Tech has fundamental issues that make things more difficult and I’ll have to believe that (while realizing how important is, I don’t have the time to pay attention to recruiting). And I guess I just have to accept it. I don’t like CPJ but I’d be lying if I thought anyone worth a damn would take this job. Overall the admin just doesn’t care and at this point the fanbase isn’t far behind. Losing 4 out of 5 to Duke should tell you where we sit in the ACC these days.

Originally Posted by digamma

It's tough because in the last 15 years when its neighbors have made a serious commitment to football, the GT administration has done the opposite of that. Consider that until a targeted fundraise this past summer, which led to filling specific support staff positions for two years, Duke's non-coaching football support staff (recruiting, football operations, etc.) was twice the size of Georgia Tech's. It's tough to be too upset with the current staff (and I'm as frustrated as anyone), when they're consistently being asked to do more with additional limbs tied behind their backs.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The fundamental issue is much as it has been during the CPJ era: he's a lousy identifier of talent and his consistently poor selection of staff members means that not only do players arrive underskilled for major D1 competition, they don't improve much during their time there either.

I dont think its this easy, Jon.


Is CPJ a bad evaluator of coaching hires, or does he have to settle for fall back candidates because the admin wont pay to attract his top choices?


Is he a bad evaluator of talent, or has he grown disenfranchised because he cant land the top talent because of the lack of commitment from his administration.


Le's be honest. GT is a tough school. That isnt a check in the pro column for a whole lot of high school prospects. They shouldnt change that, imho. That's who they are. Follow the Duke and Stanford model and recruit a smaller more select pool who fit your academic profile and then sprinkle in complimentary pieces who are SLIGHT outliers.


The challenge is, if you as a high school kid tour GTs football facilities and then tour their competition. (To be fair I am not even including UGA, Clemson and Auburn - who they HAVE to beat for some Atlanta talent if they are going to be nationally competitive)...Compared to Wake Forest, Duke, UNC, NC St, even Georgia State....tour those schools. Its clear who has a commitment to football and Id say GT is at the bottom of the list - today.


And this is a bad time to be at the bottom of the list. Money is cheap (borrowing rate) cash in flows are high and there is an arms race going on. But in Atlanta they arent spending it.


If GT committed to being a football power house they could/should be a force. They have a HUGE living alumni base. (5.5x that of Clemson for example - and growing larger per year with a 2:1 enrollment disparity) They have a great education to sell. They have ATLANTA to sell...which again is a detriment for certain recruits but a major plus for others. They have tradition.



CPJ is a great, not a good but a great coach. I think as a play caller he is rivaled only by Spurrier among his contemporaries. He is so darn good at knowing what to call when.


But he's burned out. He's done. He's tired of fighting the good fight with that administration.


I have a good friend who is a GT die hard booster/season ticket holder...big time donor. When Clemson hired Radakovich away from GT I asked him what we were getting. He said, "he'll build lots of nice stuff. He will fund raise fantastically. His coach contracts will have stupid buyouts and he will leave you broke"....3 of the 4 have been spot on. In contrast GT has zipped up the purse strings. You have to spend to win in today's NCAA.


If you had an administration committed to spending some money, building some facilities and a young, aggressive recruiting, defensive minded coach GT is a sleeping giant. Charlie Strong at GT scares the shit out of me as a Clemson fan. (The Atlanta metro produces more DB talent than anywhere in the country. That's why I say defensive coach. And their DE/LB talent is pretty close)

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Lathum

TBH without knowing a whole lot of their history is Clemson really a traditional power? A quick look shows some good years in the 80s and their obvious recent run, but other than that a decidedly average program.

When I think tradition I think Bama, tOSU, USC, UT, Oklahoma, maybe a few others. Clemson doesn't really come to mind.

Clemson is a fringe power program, imho.
They were good very early on in the Heisman and Riggs days. I mean there are several undefeated seasons in the 40s and 50s we could claim a national title if we had a newspaper a la Tuscaloosa.


They really got hot during the Ford years. If they dont fire Ford 89 is probably a National title year..then they fell into the split agenda trap. There were people on campus from 1990-2006 who didnt want football to be successful. Then of course the last decade has been pretty good.



Top 5 program TODAY and in the last 5 years. And in position for that to continue over the next 5. Beyond that...who knows.


But historical, all time.


Even though biased. If I try to analyze it objectively I see somewhere around 17-25 all time.


I can make a case and argue higher....but again being objective I think thats where we are today, and climbing.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Is CPJ a bad evaluator of coaching hires, or does he have to settle for fall back candidates because the admin wont pay to attract his top choices?

This is a valid point. There have been at least three hires where CPJ has had a deal in place and had his legs cut out beneath him. And I'm sure I don't know the half of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Football | Assistant | Salaries | USA TODAY Sports

This is 2017, so the numbers are obviously different (as are the bodies) but that wasn't exactly a stellar year at GT so let's just run with it for a benchmark.

GT outspent UNC & UVA on ass't salaries, were within 10% of NC State. They're within 10% of Va Tech if you removed the difference in compensation for Bud Foster vs Ted Roof.

Is it discouraging that GT & UNC are bracketed by ... Kansas & Rutgers? Yeah.

Is it a do more with less scenario? Yeah.
But that's the job.

I've long advocated for GT to accept the REAL reality of their situation ... and join the SoCon or something better suited for them instead of pretending that they're willing/capable (whichever) to be a legitimately meaningful P5 program in D1 football.

But as long as they're going to insist on playing at that level then that's the standard they're going to have to be judged by.

[bob]

So as GT fan, I should just get used to this then? I don't see the admin changing, and unless CPJ is replaced with another option coach the team is going to struggle during the transition and possible go into a death spiral?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

GT outspent UNC & UVA on ass't salaries, were within 10% of NC State. They're within 10% of Va Tech if you removed the difference in compensation for Bud Foster vs Ted Roof.

Is it discouraging that GT & UNC are bracketed by ... Kansas & Rutgers? Yeah.

Is it a do more with less scenario? Yeah.
But that's the job.

Assistant coaches are only a part of the problem. And to be fair, CPJ is a viewed as a dead man walking coach so that limits his assistant pull. Before I move off the assistant topic one point, Frankly GT doesnt battle UVA and UNC for recruits. It matters only who you battle on the trail for your basis of comparison. GT has to recruit metro Atlanta, Jacksonville, FL panhandle, the Chattanooga area, SC and then spot recruit the rest of the country for fits. For this reason thise are the programs that matter. Not supposed conference foes who you dont cross paths for.


The bigger issue, in my opinion, is facilities. This is a two fold issue because, Atlanta. New Facilities require dirt. Dirt near the campus is prohibitively expensive. And construction costs are artificially elevated in Atlanta because of construction politics.


To illustrate. (I'm using Clemson because I know their numbers off hand and dont need to research to sides of an argument, and they are historic rivals of sorts and close in proximity) Clemson has a 17,000 acre campus and another 35,000 acres of land around the state. GT is a 370 acre campus. So when Clemson set out to build the $55 million dollar Football Complex...they literally started with a green field. A pasture that hasnt had a building on it since at least 1889. Yet it is a golf cart ride to the center of campus or a .75 mile walk if you are froggy. If GT wants to build the same in the same proximity. The dirt itself probably costs several million to acquire and that again to clear it and build on. Its just prohibitively expensive. I get that.


What I dont get is GT having a locker room thats not comparable to my son's high school. Its a newer school, to be fair - only 10 years old - but its not close. That's a ~$750 renovation that could pop or a $1.5MM renovation that could wow.


Its not all negative. GT's IPF is very nice. Although I will tell you I worry about their current facilities initiative. It seems like they are revamping mainly for the fans....not the athletes. I've heard the line "make the fans want to come and they will finance the improvements for the players" I think that's backwards.



If I am GT, I part ways with CPJ after this year. I think he's leaving either way to be honest. I then roll the dice. I want a young first time head coach with a vision. I'm swinging for the fence. I need to catch lightening in a bottle...and at a dollar figure I can afford to pay the heck out of assistants.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by bob

So as GT fan, I should just get used to this then? I don't see the admin changing, and unless CPJ is replaced with another option coach the team is going to struggle during the transition and possible go into a death spiral?

I actually think the seat is hotter for the current GT administration than it is for CPJ. Not football related, obviously.

I think the new AD will give CPJ at least another year to right the ship. I do think there's a chance CPJ hangs it up though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

I do think there's a chance CPJ hangs it up though.

This is pretty much what I'm mentally/emotionally banking on tbh. At this point it feels to me like everybody would be happier that way, from him to the players to the fans.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Radii

AP College Football Rankings: Greatest Programs Of All-Time

Using the final ranking in the AP poll each season as the only measurement, Clemson is 20th, Washington 22nd, Georgia Tech 25th, Colorado 30th.

T96 East Carolina 23 T95
T96 Pacific 23 T95
T96 Randolph Field 23 T95
99 Wake Forest 22 98
100 Marshall 21 T99
101 Carnegie Tech 20 101
T102 St. Mary’s (Cal.) 19 T102
T102 Vanderbilt 19 T102
104 Del Monte P-F 18 104

I mean...yikes. Relegate them already.

(And I guess I take back GT being on the same tier as Vandy.)

[bbgunn]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

T96 East Carolina 23 T95
T96 Pacific 23 T95
T96 Randolph Field 23 T95
99 Wake Forest 22 98
100 Marshall 21 T99
101 Carnegie Tech 20 101
T102 St. Mary’s (Cal.) 19 T102
T102 Vanderbilt 19 T102
104 Del Monte P-F 18 104

I mean...yikes. Relegate them already.

(And I guess I take back GT being on the same tier as Vandy.)

Randolph Field? Del Monte?

[tarcone]

Iowa State is ranked 120th. Way behind Iowa Pre-flight.

Iowa Pre-flight?

[Brian Swartz]

That's the thing about a list like this. Michigan is 4th and it wasn't all that long ago they would have been at worst 2nd. But then Saban at Bama happened, and the Wolverines haven't finished the year in the Top 5 in 15 years; half of those seasons they weren't even in the final rankings anywhere. So if you can find me someone who really thinks they're still a Top 4(or even Top 10) power at the moment, I'll be impressed.

[cartman]

That's the thing about a list named "all-time"? You are arguing "at the moment".

[bob]

I think we were just using that list as a starting point for discussions. But I think its fair to say Michigan is at least a top 20 team in terms of their resources and "power" if you will.

Interesting discussion all around - thanks guys.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa State is ranked 120th. Way behind Iowa Pre-flight.

Iowa Pre-flight?

Iowa Pre-flight finished #2 in 1943. Behind Notre Dame. Even during a World War, a freakin' military school can't beat out the bias of Notre Dame.

Just kidding, apparently Notre Dame won a head-to-head in November by a 14-13 score.

List of World War II military service football teams - Wikipedia

[JPhillips]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejah weighed in Michigan on Twitter. For some reason, I can't get the embed to post, but it really happened.

2018's script keeps getting weirder and weirder.

[Logan]

Bosa withdraws from OSU to focus on rehab and draft prep.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Mahmoud Ahmadinejah weighed in Michigan on Twitter. For some reason, I can't get the embed to post, but it really happened.

2018's script keeps getting weirder and weirder.

So help me, my first thought was "Who? Who does he play for?"

[cartman]

3 star recruit for the Tehran Twisters

[albionmoonlight]

Nick Bosa leaving OSU to focus on rehab and the draft.

We've seen healthy guys skip meaningless bowl games.

We're now seeing an injured player leave a contending team during meaningful games to focus on pre-draft rehab.

It feels like we are less than five years away from a completely healthy top-ten prospect simply deciding to skip his junior year to focus 100% on draft preparation.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

We've seen healthy guys skip meaningless bowl games.

We're now seeing an injured player leave a contending team during meaningful games to focus on pre-draft rehab.

It feels like we are less than five years away from a completely healthy top-ten prospect simply deciding to skip his junior year to focus 100% on draft preparation.

Clowney essentially did just that.
He threatened it. Then chose to sit himself for a game because it wasnt worth it.
Then skipped lots of practices.
The decapitated that Michigan RB and all was forgotten

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Clowney essentially did just that.
He threatened it. Then chose to sit himself for a game because it wasnt worth it.
Then skipped lots of practices.
The decapitated that Michigan RB and all was forgotten

The Michigan hit was before his JR season.

Bosa situation is a little more opaque because he's not just sitting out to avoid injury, he actually has an injury, and one that's notoriously hard to come back from. The timing is a little weird with Ohio State still in the playoff/NC hunt, but if his rehab hasn't been going well and he thinks he won't get cleared to play in the regular season why put up with the rest? I'm sure Ohio State has nice facilities, but there are probably even better out there for his rehab and with his family money he can afford them without even going through the loan against future earnings thing if he doesn't want to.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Bosa situation is a little more opaque because he's not just sitting out to avoid injury, he actually has an injury, and one that's notoriously hard to come back from. The timing is a little weird with Ohio State still in the playoff/NC hunt, but if his rehab hasn't been going well and he thinks he won't get cleared to play in the regular season why put up with the rest? I'm sure Ohio State has nice facilities, but there are probably even better out there for his rehab and with his family money he can afford them without even going through the loan against future earnings thing if he doesn't want to.

I've heard people say that they don't expect the injury to hurt his draft stock but I don't see how it CAN'T. His brother hasn't stayed healthy. Now he can't stay healthy.

[dawgfan]

Some interesting recruiting drama around USC. A 4* CB prospect (Chris Steele) de-committed after some USC recruiting sites (such as the 247 site) accused other Trojan recruiting reporters of funneling improper benefits to him.

This certainly won't help the general perception of these kinds of websites by athletic departments...

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Some interesting recruiting drama around USC. A 4* CB prospect (Chris Steele) de-committed after some USC recruiting sites (such as the 247 site) accused other Trojan recruiting reporters of funneling improper benefits to him.

This certainly won't help the general perception of these kinds of websites by athletic departments...

That site that accused the other sites is a new, "fake" site. 247 has a lawsuit out against them already.