Ongoing pro/college basketball thread (2023-24)

[Atocep]

The Hawks land the number 1 pick. It's not a great draft, but it does open up the opportunity for them to deal Trae Young and rebuild on the fly. The challenge would be finding a trade partner. His style of play is difficult to bring into an established roster so I don't think his actual value will come close to his perceived value.

[molson]

Glad to see an OK team that tried get the top pick.

Suck it tankers.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Hawks land the number 1 pick. It's not a great draft, but it does open up the opportunity for them to deal Trae Young and rebuild on the fly. The challenge would be finding a trade partner. His style of play is difficult to bring into an established roster so I don't think his actual value will come close to his perceived value.

My guess is that this makes it way less likely they move on from Trey. If they are picking Sarr like most project, then they are already going to move on from Clint Capella and Onyeka Okongwu. Trading those guys and Murray give thems lots of ammo to building around Trey and Sarr. It opens up a good many options.

[stevew]

Raptors tanking for nothing was funny

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My guess is that this makes it way less likely they move on from Trey. If they are picking Sarr like most project, then they are already going to move on from Clint Capella and Onyeka Okongwu. Trading those guys and Murray give thems lots of ammo to building around Trey and Sarr. It opens up a good many options.

Then again, my nephew who covers the team professionally says this might set off a complete rebuild. Sarr will need time to develop, so this might just be the excuse to dump most of the team and start over.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Then again, my nephew who covers the team professionally says this might set off a complete rebuild. Sarr will need time to develop, so this might just be the excuse to dump most of the team and start over.

I don't know if they have the guts to do it. I do think moving on from Trae would be the smart move in the long run. His style of play is incredibly difficult to build around. Undersized, ball dominate PG, volume shooter, god awful defender. He's essentially the modern AI in some ways.

The roster, as constructed, is poorly built and this would be a great excuse to hit the reset button and not have a complete fan meltdown.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't know if they have the guts to do it. I do think moving on from Trae would be the smart move in the long run. His style of play is incredibly difficult to build around. Undersized, ball dominate PG, volume shooter, god awful defender. He's essentially the modern AI in some ways.

The roster, as constructed, is poorly built and this would be a great excuse to hit the reset button and not have a complete fan meltdown.

I think the fans will melt down if they trade Trey. Just from what I have seen online, people seem pretty hostile to the idea. As for me, I agree with you. He is a near impossible player to build around.

[stevew]

Trae and Murray to the Spurs for Filler/4/8/all of the Hawks picks back?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Trae and Murray to the Spurs for Filler/4/8/all of the Hawks picks back?

There is zero chance the Spurs bring in Trae Young. They already have too many guys on the team who think the team is better off with them shooting than them getting the ball to Wembanyama. I think Young should be traded. The issue I have in trading Young and then drafting Sarr, the team could give the impression that Sarr is the new centerpiece of the team. He is not that IMO.

[GrantDawg]

Caitlin Clark having a "welcome to the league, rook" first half. 7 points 1 assist and 5 turnovers.

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[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Caitlin Clark having a "welcome to the league, rook" first half. 7 points 1 assist and 5 turnovers.

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There is also a good bit of a welcome from the officials. A little bump here and a little grab there.

[miami_fan]

Caitlin got slightly better as the game went along. She is going to have to find ways to get to and make shots at the basket. Eleven of fifteen shot attempts from behind the three point line is making it too easy for the opposition.

[RainMaker]

It's really fun to watch Jokic play. Like watching a guy you'd see at a YMCA dominate the best players in the world.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Caitlin got slightly better as the game went along. She is going to have to find ways to get to and make shots at the basket. Eleven of fifteen shot attempts from behind the three point line is making it too easy for the opposition.

The whole team has got to get some chemistry, or at least get on the same page. It looked like the Suns just doubled the ball and no one worked to help them out. The team only had 16 assist and 25 turn-overs. It's like they didn't have a cohesive plan.

[Ksyrup]

I watched 30 seconds of the Fever game and saw Clark was in trouble. She couldn't shake the defenders just to get outlet passes after a rebound. Definite wake up call, I'm sure.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's really fun to watch Jokic play. Like watching a guy you'd see at a YMCA dominate the best players in the world.

Amazing player. Imagine being seven feet tall, two hundred eighty four pounds in 2024 and having the gall to only take three shots from three point range and settle for dominating everything within fifteen feet of the hoop.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's really fun to watch Jokic play. Like watching a guy you'd see at a YMCA dominate the best players in the world.

The hate he gets from some of the old guard is crazy.

[sovereignstar v2]

Jokic is a very talented basketball player. He gets away with a lot though. He can use his body like a battering ram but the moment he gets it back it's a foul on the defensive player. He also switches hit pivot foot and always gets away with it.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

He can use his body like a battering ram but the moment he gets it back it's a foul on the defensive player.

He only averages like 5-7 FTs a game during the season and playoffs. Considering the amount of contested shots around the rim and inside the FT line he takes whatever calls he's 'given' seems somewhat negligible (and it's definitely not that people avoid contact either). Closer to Shaq than Harden in terms of the way contact on him is called imo.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The hate he gets from some of the old guard is crazy.

I assume you are talking about Shaq cause he is the only old guy that has an issue with Jokic specifically. I don't think there will ever be a big man Shaq likes that is not a Shaq clone. There is still a general prejudice against European players for a lack of toughness that has been there since the 90's that continues to be ridiculously false.

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Jokic is a very talented basketball player. He gets away with a lot though. He can use his body like a battering ram but the moment he gets it back it's a foul on the defensive player. He also switches hit pivot foot and always gets away with it.

That might be the case but I can't see evidence of that in this series.

[miami_fan]

So the Fever is got destroyed by the Liberty in their home opener. Not a big surprise given the Liberty won the East and has last year's MVP Breanna Stewart had a huge game.

It is early but the Fever would be better off having Kelsey Mitchell being the primary scorer at least early on. Caitlyn's forcing her own offense and is force feeding the ball to Aliyah Boston.

[sovereignstar v2]

Howling noises or something

[Ksyrup]

The TWolves-Nuggets series has been crazy as hell. Tonight, TWolves up 50, have separate runs of like 29-2 and 26-1 and the crowd got free Chick-fil-A thanks to 2 missed FTs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

It is early but the Fever would be better off having Kelsey Mitchell being the primary scorer at least early on. Caitlyn's forcing her own offense and is force feeding the ball to Aliyah Boston.

Kinda tough when there's literally ONE reason anybody on the planet gives the slightest fuck that the Fever exist. Only Atlanta managed lower attendance than the Fever last year, which is kinda life as a bad team.

So they can lose featuring her OR they can lose with a perhaps more reasoned approach ... but one of those might generate temporary eyeballs so, uh, which one we reckon they're gonna do?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Kinda tough when there's literally ONE reason anybody on the planet gives the slightest fuck that the Fever exist. Only Atlanta managed lower attendance than the Fever last year, which is kinda life as a bad team.

So they can lose featuring her OR they can lose with a perhaps more reasoned approach ... but one of those might generate temporary eyeballs so, uh, which one we reckon they're gonna do?

That was from a purely basketball point of view. I get that she is the draw and she needs to be the focus for marketing. It is also the reason Christie Sides has about five or so games to figure this thing before she becomes an accelerated version of Paul Silas as the Cavs head coach. Again, that is not a concern for the marketing folks. It just might be be better for the team in general and Caitlyn specifically if there was more of a focus on Caitlyn the great passer and offensive creator than on Caitlyn the scorer at this point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

That was from a purely basketball point of view. I get that she is the draw and she needs to be the focus for marketing. It is also the reason Christie Sides has about five or so games to figure this thing before she becomes an accelerated version of Paul Silas as the Cavs head coach. Again, that is not a concern for the marketing folks. It just might be be better for the team in general and Caitlyn specifically if there was more of a focus on Caitlyn the great passer and offensive creator than on Caitlyn the scorer at this point.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. But with the "she's the greatest thing EVER" narrative, basketball sense has flown out the window.

And let me be clear: I like Clark well enough, but she's not the second coming of Cousy/West/Jordan/LeBron all rolled into one either.

As a long-time coach friend of mine put it "she's basically Pete Maravich with better passing" and that doesn't seem far off reality.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

KOnly Atlanta managed lower attendance than the Fever last year, which is kinda life as a bad team.

I thought of this statement when I just saw they announced that the Dream-Fever games are going to be relocated to State Farm Arena. Clark is making the league some bank at least as of now. Also, I didn't realize the Dream was playing in College Park. It might not be fair because I believe they have been trying to revitalize the area, but I wouldn't be crazy about being in College Park at night. For those not familiar with Atlanta, College Park is right outside the airport, and it suffers the same problem most major airport adjacent neighborhoods do.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As a long-time coach friend of mine put it "she's basically Pete Maravich with better passing" and that doesn't seem far off reality.

To paraphrase the English, if this is considered a slight, game's gone!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

To paraphrase the English, if this is considered a slight, game's gone!

The only playoff series a Maravich team ever won was when he was relegated to 11 minutes a game as a aging veteran.

I would not be remotely surprised if that wasn't Clark's fate.

[miami_fan]

I would love to see the psychological analysis of the mental impact having Anthony Edwards around has had on Karl-Anthony Towns. It remind me of a light version of the D-Wade/Lebron dynamic early on with the Heat.

[miami_fan]

WNBA investigating Aces' deal with Vegas tourism authority - ESPN

I am confused as to what the league is investigating. Instead of just paying A'ja Wilson or Kelsey Plum to advertise Las Vegas , the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, they paid every player on the team. The tourism board for the cities where the other teams are located or some other advertisers could always pony up if they want. This feels like when Jerry Jones was making exclusive deals for the Cowboys.

[GrantDawg]

I have watched three times as much WNBA as the NBA playoffs. What a weird timeline.

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[Sweed]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I have watched three times as much WNBA as the NBA playoffs. What a weird timeline.

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I've watched 4 games, and those are the first 4 WNBA games I have ever watched. It has been entertaining.

I'm a Lakers fan for over 50 years. I was watching them play Denver and LeBron was chastising Russel for not taking care of the ball, LA was up 3 at the time of the Russel turnover. LA puts up a good defense, forces a bad shot, get the rebound and can go up 5 or 6. LeBron brings the ball up, dribbles around the logo for about 10 seconds, and... jacks up a three. No play run, just jacked up a 33 foot three. If it were Caitlin Clark I would gladly take that uncontested three and live with the miss. LeBrick? No. I turned off the game and haven't watched NBA since.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I've watched 4 games, and those are the first 4 WNBA games I have ever watched. It has been entertaining.

I'm a Lakers fan for over 50 years. I was watching them play Denver and LeBron was chastising Russel for not taking care of the ball, LA was up 3 at the time of the Russel turnover. LA puts up a good defense, forces a bad shot, get the rebound and can go up 5 or 6. LeBron brings the ball up, dribbles around the logo for about 10 seconds, and... jacks up a three. No play run, just jacked up a 33 foot three. If it were Caitlin Clark I would gladly take that uncontested three and live with the miss. LeBrick? No. I turned off the game and haven't watched NBA since.

I'm taking Lebron jacking up a 53 foot three than any shot Russell Westbrook would have gotten during his time with the Lakers.

[HerRealName]

I've enjoyed following the Mavs this year but I'm extremely pessimistic going into this series. Maybe the extra couple of days will be enough to get Doncic healthy but otherwise this could be a quick one.

[Atocep]

This is shaping up to be a really interesting draft. There isn't an elite talent at the top and there seems to be solid depth, but it's a lot of same-y talent throughout. Two of the top 5 are also centers and there's not much need for centers in the top 5 outside of Atlanta and Washington at 1 and 2.

Sarr seems like the safest bet of the guys in contention for the top pick, Risacher seems like the guy that's gotten hot at the right time but the metrics don't back up the hype, and Ron Holland is the guy people seem to have forgotten about because he was young for his level and in a bad situation.

What San Antonio does is probably the most interesting part of the draft. They have picks at 4 and 8. Reed Sheppard would be ideal, but I don't see him getting past Houston at 3. IMO Holland and Knecht would be a solid pair to put around Wemby. Topic is another guy if his medicals check out.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I'm taking Lebron jacking up a 53 foot three than any shot Russell Westbrook would have gotten during his time with the Lakers.

While Westbrick was there I didn't watch any Laker games. I tried a couple of times, but No. Why put yourself through that when you don't have to.

[miami_fan]

OLD MAN ALERT!

Can we get back to coaches not looking like they are volunteering at the local boys and girls club while on the sidelines?

Joe Mazzulla looks like he has been on a helluva bender.

[GrantDawg]

While my wife and I are binging a tv show, I'm watching the Fever-Aces game on my phone. I need help.

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[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

I've enjoyed following the Mavs this year but I'm extremely pessimistic going into this series. Maybe the extra couple of days will be enough to get Doncic healthy but otherwise this could be a quick one.

Example $5,384 why I don't gamble on sports. Doncic recovering has been the difference.

[SirFozzie]

What a long strange trip it was for Bill Walton, who passed away at the age of 71

[SirFozzie]

Celtics end up winning ANOTHER close game (which is unusual, they've been known to get VERY stagnant offensively in closing out games). Feel bad for Indy a bit, the injury sucked, but they'll be back, hungrier then ever to make up for this sweep.

If I was MORE of a gambling man, I might put money down on the Timberwolves in game 4, mostly because if the Mavericks ALSO sweep, there will be NINE DAYS before Game 1 of the final (Unlike most playoffs, the NBA finals happen on pre-set dates). The refs will likely allow everything short of a machete attack to keep the series going.

[stevew]

Bummer about Walton. He was great in the booth. Never really watched him play, but supposedly he was pretty awesome.

[sovereignstar v2]

I wonder what Donbitch thinks of Xmas. What a moaning grinch

[miami_fan]

I don't want to be the guy that only focuses on Caitlin Clark at her worst.

As much as I loathe to say this, I wholeheartedly agree with ESPN's headline of last night being her most complete game. She is still shooting way too many threes (3-10) but other than that she played a great all around game. She is finally getting more use to the idea that she will get hammered when she drives in the paint and just accepting the free throws that come with that. Don't get me wrong, she is still whiny when she does not get a call. She is just trying to fight through the contact more that she did before. She was shying away from the contact too often earlier. She is passing to the open player as opposed to forcing the ball to a specific player. I don't think she will ever be on the all defensive teams but she now looks more engaged in playing on ball and off ball defense and rebounding around the basket not just long rebounds.

Clark's shot chart from last night was a basketball nerd's wet dream. Four for six not just on twos, not just in the paint, but almost exclusively in the restricted area. Three for ten on shots not just from behind the three point line but almost exclusively from twenty five feet or more. I know that the logo threes are what people want to see but she is too good of a shooter all over the court to not mix in a few mid range shots here and there.

In non-Caitlin, non-rookie news, despite a stinker last night, Diana Taurasi is averaging almost 17ppg, 5 boards and 1 assist so far 13 days before her 42nd birthday.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

She is finally getting more use to the idea that she will get hammered when she drives in the paint and just accepting the free throws that come with that. Don't get me wrong, she is still whiny when she does not get a call. She is just trying to fight through the contact more that she did before. She was shying away from the contact too often earlier. She is passing to the open player as opposed to forcing the ball to a specific player. I don't think she will ever be on the all defensive teams but she now looks more engaged in playing on ball and off ball defense and rebounding around the basket not just long rebounds.

So Clark is female Luka Doncic.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

So Clark is female Luka Doncic.

Come on now flere! It's 2024! We have gone beyond limiting comparisons of white players to other white players, black players to another black players etc.

She is the female James Harden

[flere-imsaho]

You can't really make the Clark-Harden comparison if you don't have statistics on her on-court performance correlated to the quality of (male) strip clubs in the city where she's playing.

So, I stick by my comparison.

[stevew]

Can’t believe I gotta pull for Kyrie

[miami_fan]

Who asked for these in-game (as opposed to in between quarters) head coach interviews? This is not baseball where the manager is not actively coaching the team during the game. These interviews are beyond ludicrous.