Werewolf CXXXIII - The Dark Knight - MOBSTERS WIN

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yes. The one player we have a bead on is apparently begging us to vote for him and acting nuts. Everyone else is a normal Day One vote, and not even the votees know if they're roled or not. Information is only revealed at night. I would rather go through a cycle, even at the loss of one lynch target and subsequent vote analysis, to gain this information and hopefully have a more meaningful vote on Day Two and going forward.

It's in an information rich but hidden game like this where this sort of approach can work. Usually we don't get that.

please, please vote for me! With a cherry on top! I will be your best friend 4ever 4reals

[Tyrith]

I don't buy the CR approach, never have, and I'm pretty sure we all had this argument 50 or 60 games ago, everyone on the same side they're taking now, so I'm not particularly concerned either way.

[J23]

Are we sure we'd even learn anything from a night cycle? At what point do the secret roled people find out that they indeed have the secret role?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by J23

Are we sure we'd even learn anything from a night cycle? At what point do the secret roled people find out that they indeed have the secret role?

For some, it was before the game started

[Darth Vilus]

I'm almost tempted to vote him out of sheer annoyance.

Almost

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by JAG

I strongly disagree. People with fewer posts tend to be more difficult to get a read on.

No duh. My point is that he has yet to be utr this game. That's why i mention that I would be okay voting out a utr person later. Voting someone D1 because of their play style isn't nice. It's mean. "It's saying, play my way, or else I punish you."

That's not something I support, and I'm happy to vote for Narcizo to help send a message that I feel it's inappropriate, and I don;t care if no one else votes for him, and nothing happens with the vote today, or how it screws up vote reviews later, I'm sending a message. I'm not moving my vote for anything. Danny could waive a flag that reads Here Lies the Wolf, and I'm not budging today.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

I'm almost tempted to vote him out of sheer annoyance.

Almost

Based on what I've seen, this place would be duller than Mr. Rogers on prozac if I wasn't around today

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Danny could waive a flag that reads Here Lies the Wolf, and I'm not budging today.

Don't be silly, there are no wolves in Gotham City.

[Chubby]

I said I would earlier and have no reason to change now, I'd rather vote for someone I know doesn't have Gotham's best interests at heart then take a crapshoot and have people bitch that I'm piling on or trying to hide my vote.

and since Danny is still online...

Vote Danny

[Danny]

crap lol

Unvote No lynch
Vote Danny

[Tyrith]

Not particularly happy with how scattered today's vote is. However, mauboy was on my list at the start of the day, and right now I show him up 5-4. Good enough for me.

VOTE MAUBOY1

[J23]

vote Danny

I've gone back and forth about voting Danny most of the day. I have no idea what his plan is, but hopefully it's a matter of calling his bluff.

[Chubby]

Unvote Danny
Vote Danny

[Danny]

Unvote Danny
Vote Mauboy

[Chubby]

well J23 made my post irrelevant but anyways...

[Danny]

Unvote Mauboy
Vote Danny

[bhlloy]

I'm not sure what downside there really is in a Danny vote. If he's a villager, then a vote for him presumably helps us unless he's gone completely insane. If he's a wolf or a neutral that gains a power, at least we find out about it and he's going down eventually.

I'd be more OK with a Danny vote than a random Mauboy kill I think, but I'm willing to be talked out of it.

[The Jackal]

heading out to dinner, unlikely that i'll be back by the deadline but we'll see

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm not sure what downside there really is in a Danny vote. If he's a villager, then a vote for him presumably helps us unless he's gone completely insane. If he's a wolf or a neutral that gains a power, at least we find out about it and he's going down eventually.

I'd be more OK with a Danny vote than a random Mauboy kill I think, but I'm willing to be talked out of it.

As gung-ho about it as he was, I'm concerned we're just going to be unable to lynch him and he's going to get kill multiple people. If he is The Joker, then I'm content to let Batman have the first whack at him. But it's your hide, if you think it's worth risking, I won't try too hard to dissuade you.

[bhlloy]

The one thing I can think of is that Danny is a non-villager who has a win condition or a power if he's the day 1 vote... which would mean holding off would be smart. Otherwise if we're going to do it, why not do it right away?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

As gung-ho about it as he was, I'm concerned we're just going to be unable to lynch him and he's going to get kill multiple people. If he is The Joker, then I'm content to let Batman have the first whack at him. But it's your hide, if you think it's worth risking, I won't try too hard to dissuade you.

I think could be just as likely that Danny being as good a player as he is, trying to to draw the NK because he has a protection against that. Does that make any sense? It could be anything but I'm not sure what we gain by waiting. If he has a power then he's still going to have it down the line and we could be in a worse situation then.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The one thing I can think of is that Danny is a non-villager who has a win condition or a power if he's the day 1 vote... which would mean holding off would be smart. Otherwise if we're going to do it, why not do it right away?

this is my reasoning. however, my hunch is different than your 2 ideas (about what it means for him).

the other thing i worry about is if Batman has conditions with negative consequences for NKing a good person, i'd much rather find out for sure what Danny is up to than wait and have to find out later when he may be more powerful for all we know.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I think could be just as likely that Danny being as good a player as he is, trying to to draw the NK because he has a protection against that. Does that make any sense? It could be anything but I'm not sure what we gain by waiting. If he has a power then he's still going to have it down the line and we could be in a worse situation then.

It makes sense but I disagree. I think his play is much more likely to draw a lynch than a NK.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The one thing I can think of is that Danny is a non-villager who has a win condition or a power if he's the day 1 vote... which would mean holding off would be smart. Otherwise if we're going to do it, why not do it right away?

In hope that it won't be necessary to do it at all. And the fact that he up and told us who he is, plus the obviousness of the voting mechanic he seems to be tied to, makes it seem unlikely to me we can just take him outside and blow his head off.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chubby

It makes sense but I disagree. I think his play is much more likely to draw a lynch than a NK.

It's definitely unlikely I would draw a mob night kill. And I am definitely not worried about Batman.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

In hope that it won't be necessary to do it at all. And the fact that he up and told us who he is, plus the obviousness of the voting mechanic he seems to be tied to, makes it seem unlikely to me we can just take him outside and blow his head off.

Sorry I'm slow, what scenario would you be talking about that it wouldn't be necessary to do it at all?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Chubby

this is my reasoning. however, my hunch is different than your 2 ideas (about what it means for him).

the other thing i worry about is if Batman has conditions with negative consequences for NKing a good person, i'd much rather find out for sure what Danny is up to than wait and have to find out later when he may be more powerful for all we know.

I just feel like there has to be a deeper layer to this. If his nonsense voting is being forced by his role, there has to be some sort of protection for this. And mostly I don't want the protection to be free lynch + a kill. But I also suspect that if he gets a kill it'd probably be on someone who voted for him, so I'm content to let you guys chase him if that's what you want.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Sorry I'm slow, what scenario would you be talking about that it wouldn't be necessary to do it at all?

Nothing slow, I'm just guessing Batman could probably deal with him somehow. Or at least make it possible for us to deal with him. Of course, Danny could just be trying to draw in Batman, as his latest taunt suggests. You guys are kind of weakening my resolve here.

[mauchow]

Yawwwn..

I might not be able to make it until deadline. I might need to make a vote switch and then just cross my fingers til morning.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I just feel like there has to be a deeper layer to this. If his nonsense voting is being forced by his role, there has to be some sort of protection for this. And mostly I don't want the protection to be free lynch + a kill. But I also suspect that if he gets a kill it'd probably be on someone who voted for him, so I'm content to let you guys chase him if that's what you want.

I'm willing to take that risk, I have no role (known to me at least) and have no issue putting myself at risk from getting: offed related to my vote, lynched at some point, NK from my strategy.

Whether others vote for him are up to you, i understand the risk others see. If 2 of my other people on "my list" were up for vote i would think about switching but they aren't so I won't. As I said when I voted for him, I also don't feel like getting the inevitable "you're trying to hide your vote by piling on late" etc... BS either.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Autumn

The Citizens

Most people of Gotham mind their own business, don't rock the boat and do what they have to do to get by. A few though have been inspired by the actions of Gordon, Dent, Dawes and most of all, The Batman. They've decided the unthinkable can be done, the mob can be driven out of Gotham City. Unfortunately by stepping up they've put themselves in the line of fire.

QFT

[Tyrith]

Pfft, so melodramatic :P

[Danny]

haha

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Nothing slow, I'm just guessing Batman could probably deal with him somehow. Or at least make it possible for us to deal with him. Of course, Danny could just be trying to draw in Batman, as his latest taunt suggests. You guys are kind of weakening my resolve here.

I'm honestly as stuck here as I have been... and it's only a day 1 vote

I'm slightly leaning towards this being a good play. I think the odds that something bad happens here that we could have avoided down the road are less than the alternatives.

Unvote Mauboy
Vote Danny

[Chubby]

I believe this makes it a 3way tie @ 5 votes each for Mauboy, zinto and danny

[Tyrith]

Who all do you have for Zinto? I only have 4.

[Danny]

I think that's right. And Mau gets lynched in a tie.

[Tyrith]

Those 4 being Lathum, ntn, Jackal, and dzilla. Should have been less dumb and said that before.

[bhlloy]

I'm taking off home, hopefully get back on 15 mins or so before deadline

[Danny]

You're right Zinto has 4

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

No duh. My point is that he has yet to be utr this game. That's why i mention that I would be okay voting out a utr person later. Voting someone D1 because of their play style isn't nice. It's mean. "It's saying, play my way, or else I punish you."

That's not something I support, and I'm happy to vote for Narcizo to help send a message that I feel it's inappropriate, and I don;t care if no one else votes for him, and nothing happens with the vote today, or how it screws up vote reviews later, I'm sending a message. I'm not moving my vote for anything. Danny could waive a flag that reads Here Lies the Wolf, and I'm not budging today.

I kind of want to argue this, but I don't really want to spend the time and effort currently. We'll agree to disagree I guess.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Those 4 being Lathum, ntn, Jackal, and dzilla. Should have been less dumb and said that before.

yup, i forgot to take danny's vote off of him. that's why i said I believe because it gets a little confusing with you know who moving his vote around

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chubby

yup, i forgot to take danny's vote off of him. that's why i said I believe because it gets a little confusing with you know who moving his vote around

Yeah bhlloy, stop moving your vote around

[Tyrith]

I'm just kind of mentally discounting his vote at this point. Although I'll be curious if there will be multiple 9:59 votes.

[Zinto]

Well I am going out and probably won't be back until after the deadline. I will move my self defense vote onto the person who I believe is more likely going to get lynched even though I think he isn't a good candidate today(but who is) like I have already said.

Vote Danny

[JAG]

For those voting Danny, what are the odds he is an out-and-out criminal? Playing in a way that's reasonably likely to draw a scan probably means he wouldn't be one that would scan as bad. So if there's a cunning-type role in this game (which we don't know), that would be the only reasonable role for him, and even that would be a stretch in my opinion. I think there's a very low chance he's a criminal as a result. While I dont know what to think about the other possibilities, I feel pretty strongly voting Danny is a pretty poor percentage play.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JAG

For those voting Danny, what are the odds he is an out-and-out criminal? Playing in a way that's reasonably likely to draw a scan probably means he wouldn't be one that would scan as bad. So if there's a cunning-type role in this game (which we don't know), that would be the only reasonable role for him, and even that would be a stretch in my opinion. I think there's a very low chance he's a criminal as a result. While I dont know what to think about the other possibilities, I feel pretty strongly voting Danny is a pretty poor percentage play.

There's a chance he's a mobster, there's a bigger chance he's a non-listed character who does not have Gotham's interests at heart. Given the alternatives (shots in the dark IMO) he's my vote.

For the argument of "he wants us to vote for him to activate something" I would argue he could also be giving off that vibe to stay alive due to a nighttime ability activating. It works both ways, if he can duke then I'd rather find out day 1 than wait til day 6 when it costs us the game IMO.

My $0.02

[Autumn]

Gotham City Late Night Vote Count

2 ntn - zinto (281), mauboy (316)
5 mauboy - packerfanatic (201), mrbug708 (291), darth vilus (360), mckerney (385), tyrith (411)
1 mrbug - hoopsguy (159)
6 danny - thomkal (302), chubby (413), J23 (412), danny (416), bhlloy (434), zinto (445)
4 zinto - lathum (321), ntndeacon (348), the jackal (363), dzilla7 (371)
2 bhlloy - narcizo (339), JAG (342)
1 narcizo - abe sargent (389)
1 no lynch - chief rum (391)

Let me know if I've messed up.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Gotham City Late Night Vote Count

2 ntn - zinto (281), mauboy (316)
5 mauboy - packerfanatic (201), mrbug708 (291), darth vilus (360), mckerney (385), tyrith (411)
1 mrbug - hoopsguy (159)
6 danny - thomkal (302), chubby (413), J23 (412), danny (416), bhlloy (434), zinto (445)
4 zinto - lathum (321), ntndeacon (348), the jackal (363), dzilla7 (371)
2 bhlloy - narcizo (339), JAG (342)
1 narcizo - abe sargent (389)
1 no lynch - chief rum (391)

Let me know if I've messed up.

The burger you promised me has still not arrive! And if you put any mayonnaise on it, I'm gonna come over to your house, I'll chop your legs off, set fire to your house, and watch as you drag your bloody stumps out the door.

[Autumn]

I must have messed up somewhere as that adds up to 22.