2007-08 Baseball Offseason

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

There's no way the Sox would trade both Buchholz and Ellsbury. I'm pretty sure Buchholz alone is untouchable. The most we would do is replace Crisp with Ellsbury or/and include another prospect. I really hope they don't and stand pat with their offer (which I think y'all are underestimating a bit. Lester and Lowrie both have the potential to make an all-star game or two. Lowrie really isn't much different than Pedroia, and if Pedroia was included I don't think people would be complaining as vociferously.) I think, or at least am projecting on the Sox FO, that we were trying all along to force the Yankees to include Hughes, but now that that has happened, it looks like the Twins might be trying to get even more in Hughes, Cabrera and Kennedy, which would be fantastic. Just isn't worth trying to top that offer once you include the contract he'll require. Stay interested until the Yankees/maybe Angels give up too much, then move on to Haren.

Sorry, Bishop, but the only guy being talked about with the Sox that sound slike he will be even close to elite is Buccholz. Elsbury is a bit overrated, too, IMO, and while those other players (Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, etc.) stand to be decent big leaguers in the long run, that's all they will be. Hughes and Joba both look like they will be close to elite (I don't think Cabrera will be there, though), and Kennedy has at least as good a chance of achieving top notch status as Lester, IMO. From the Angels side, most regard Brandon Wood and Nick Adenhart in much the same way (although that's the sticking point they haven't reportedly been willing to go with so far in the Miguel Cabrera deal).

All that said, yeah, I would love to see Santana go to the Yanks for all that. I think their pitching would still be awful overall, and they will have sold out their ability to field a strong young rotation for the next few years.

[highfiveoh]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.
He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here.

.

[DeToxRox]

i've heard rumblings the Tigers will offer Maybin and Miller for Santana or Haren

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sorry, Bishop, but the only guy being talked about with the Sox that sounds like he will be even close to elite is Buccholz. Elsbury is a bit overrated, too, IMO, and while those other players (Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, etc.) stand to be decent big leaguers in the long run, that's all they will be. Hughes and Joba both look like they will be close to elite (I don't think Cabrera will be there, though), and Kennedy has at least as good a chance of achieving top notch status as Lester, IMO. From the Angels side, most regard Brandon Wood and Nick Adenhart in much the same way (although that's the sticking point they haven't reportedly been willing to go with so far in the Miguel Cabrera deal).

I'm talking about an AS game appearance or two, not elite status. Especially at 2B it's easy to steal one or two of those. Lester has a much higher ceiling than Kennedy - Kennedy has good control, but average stuff, Lester has electric stuff, but control problems. There's no way Kennedy is going to be more than a borderline #2/#3, while Lester has the potential to be a #1/2. Wood is one of the most overrated prospects in the minors, and it appears BA and the like are starting to catch on. He's K's wayyyy too much for a top 10 prospect and the Texas League/PCL have inflated his power numbers. Once he moves to 3B, he's a good prospect, but not elite. Adenhart is a notch below Buchholz/Hughes (I'll leave Joba out because he has huge injury concerns) because he had a less than 2:1 BB/K ratio in AA and a WHIP of 1.5 (which is also inflated by Texas league parks). I'm not really sure if I can comment on whether Ellsbury is overrated because I haven't seen much consensus on where he is rated. There are probably some who see his September/playoff performance and think he'll be a 10-time all-star, but BA has him rated below Lowrie in its IL rankings that came out in the last month. I don't think he's a top 10 minor league prospect, but he has the highest floor out of any of them. There's basically no way he doesn't hit league average with gg caliber defense and good speed for his pre-arb years. Wood has bust potential, and all pitchers are injury-risks.

So basically if I had to put the prospects in tiers I would go

Buchholz/Hughes/(Chamberlain if healthy) as the only elite prospects
Adenhart/Wood/Ellsbury/Lester
Kennedy/Bowden/Masterson/Lowrie/Melky Cabrera with the 2nd and 3rd having the potential to flip next season.

[Atocep]

Astros get Kaz Matsui for 3 years and $16.5 mil and he's penciled in as the #2 hitter next year behind Bourne.

Glad to see that with all the info available today some GMs still don't look at things like Park Factors and home/road splits for guys that play in Colorado.

[MrBug708]

Astros ruined Chris Burke

[sterlingice]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print...883&type=story

Originally Posted by ESPN

Peavy reportedly near deal to stay with Pads through 2012
ESPN.com news services

The San Diego Padres want to make sure they don't lose a Cy Young winner.

Jake Peavy and the team are on the verge of an extension that would keep the ace right-hander in San Diego.

"We're moving in that direction," Padres CEO Sandy Alderson said, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune. "We're optimistic."

Multiple media reports said that the deal would run through the 2012 season. A major league source told Foxsports.com that the deal would average between $17 million and $17.5 million per season.

"We're moving toward it but it's not a done deal yet," Peavy's agent, Barry Axelrod, said Sunday night from Nashville, Tenn., site of the winter meetings. "There's still some stuff we're trying to work out. We're happy and we're moving. We're closing the gap, put it that way."

Axelrod said he had dinner Sunday night with Padres general manager Kevin Towers and some other team executives. But the agent didn't think a deal would be announced during the winter meetings.

"Maybe early next week, assuming we can keep this ball rolling the way it's rolling," he said.

Asked about reports that it would be a three-year extension, Axelrod said: "That's one of the things we're still trying to figure out."

The Padres didn't have to worry about losing Peavy in the near future. He was under contract for 2008 at $6.5 million, and the Padres had an $11 million option for 2009. The Twins, however, wanted to be proactive.

If Johan Santana, a two-time AL Cy Young winner, gets traded by the Twins, he could demand an extension upward of $150 million for six years from his new team. The 26-year-old Peavy could end up looking like a bargain and would make less per season than the Cubs' Carlos Zambrano or the Giants' Barry Zito.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting times in Kansas City right now. Initially, it was suggested that the Royals wanted to land either Jose Guillen or Andrew Jones to fill a need for a RBI-producing outfielder. Guillen held fast to the request for a 4 year deal despite limited bidding for his services, so the Royals started talking to Andrew Jones. Jones had recently backed off his 5 year deal requests and appears to be looking at a 2 year deal.

Now Guillen has suddenly switched his tune and appears to be ready to sign a 3 year deal with KC for $33-36 million. In addition, it appears the Royals are still willing to bid on Andrew Jones as well. A 2 year deal for $32-34 million will be the going rate. An outfield of Jones, Guillen, Teahan, and DeJesus would be a great improvement over what KC had last year.

KC also continues to pursue Hiroki Kuroda as a relief pitching free agent. David Riske appears close to signing with the Brewers, so the Royals will have to fill that hole as well.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting times in Kansas City right now. Initially, it was suggested that the Royals wanted to land either Jose Guillen or Andrew Jones to fill a need for a RBI-producing outfielder. Guillen held fast to the request for a 4 year deal despite limited bidding for his services, so the Royals started talking to Andrew Jones. Jones had recently backed off his 5 year deal requests and appears to be looking at a 2 year deal.

Now Guillen has suddenly switched his tune and appears to be ready to sign a 3 year deal with KC for $33-36 million. In addition, it appears the Royals are still willing to bid on Andrew Jones as well. A 2 year deal for $32-34 million will be the going rate. An outfield of Jones, Guillen, Teahan, and DeJesus would be a great improvement over what KC had last year.

KC also continues to pursue Hiroki Kuroda as a relief pitching free agent. David Riske appears close to signing with the Brewers, so the Royals will have to fill that hole as well.

I've always liked Andruw, but at $16m per? That's a bit high. Then again, it's a short contract so they won't be stuck long term. If he rebounds to 2005 form, then he'll be worth it.

[Galaril]

The Red Sox are exchanging medical records with the Twins and it sounds like deal will be announced. Johann Santana for Jon Lester, Jed Masterson and Coco Crisp.

I will be happy if that is true.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I've always liked Andruw, but at $16m per? That's a bit high. Then again, it's a short contract so they won't be stuck long term. If he rebounds to 2005 form, then he'll be worth it.

I think that was the key to the deal. Boras was asking for 5 years at $90M, but no one was interested. I believe the Dodgers offered 2 years at $16M per season. The Royals are ready to sweeten that offer ever so slightly. Even with his bad average, he still hit 20+ homeruns and 90+ RBI, which is pretty good production despite his low average. I wouldn't expect him to have that low of an average again. As you said, even if he doesn't do well, it's not a long term deal that would hurt us like the Sweeney deal has.

[Atocep]

Tigers and Marlins are talking about a Cabrera deal. Right now they're trying build a deal around both Dontrell and Cabrera going to Detroit with Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller heading back to florida. If it happens there will be more players involved, but thats the foundation of the deal.

[Reyna]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Tigers and Marlins are talking about a Cabrera deal. Right now they're trying build a deal around both Dontrell and Cabrera going to Detroit with Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller heading back to florida. If it happens there will be more players involved, but thats the foundation of the deal.

As a Marlin fan I kind of like that deal.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Reyna

As a Marlin fan I kind of like that deal.

Now they're saying the Marlins pulled out of the talks because they didn't feel they were getting enough in return for those two. GMs are also getting tired of talking to the Marlins because every offer they make is ridiculously one-sided and every time a team thinks they have a deal done for Cabrera (which has happened so far to at least the Angels, Giants, and Dodgers) the Marlins come back later wanting a lot more.

[dawgfan]

The Marlins have also reportedly taken the stance that they Dontrelle's performance last season as an aberration and would want compensation in a trade based of his previous 2-3 seasons.

I can't see any smart GM falling for that BS, as Dontrelle is clearly declining into a mediocre (at best) pitcher.

Which means Bavasi will probably trade Jeff Clement and Brandon Morrow for him...

[bosshogg23]

ESPN just reported that Cabrera & Dontrelle Willis will be traded tonight for Maybin, Andrew Miller, Catcher Mike Rabelo and 3 lesser prospects.

As a Tigers fan it seems to be a very steep price. I think more than anything, this offseason has shown how much Detroit believes in Curtis Granderson. The Tigers traded two of the top CF prospects in baseball since October.

[Crapshoot]

The Tigers are borderline idiotic - I bet dollars to donuts that Andrew Miller could match or beat Willis this season, while having the potential to be significantly better. Essentially, they gave the farm away for Cabrera. I could even have understood Maybin and assorted prospects for Cabrera, but Miller was a stupid stupid throw in.

[Logan]

Great job by the Marlins, pretty much as always.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The Tigers are borderline idiotic - I bet dollars to donuts that Andrew Miller could match or beat Willis this season, while having the potential to be significantly better. Essentially, they gave the farm away for Cabrera. I could even have understood Maybin and assorted prospects for Cabrera, but Miller was a stupid stupid throw in.

I disagree. Granted, my baseball knowledge is pretty weak, but I like this deal for the Tigers. I don't think they were convinced about Miller and they have that Procello guy they just drafted this year who is supposed to be lights out. He fell to them because of his outrageous contract demands.

Losing Maybin is tough, but like Bosshog said, the Tigers believe very much in Curtis Granderson. He had an amazing season last year and should be in CF for years to come.

The Tigers are finally in a spot where they should be competing for a championship. If they don't make this move, or some other move, they are leaving themselves in some type of limbo... They aren't re-building by any means, but then again they will still have some significant holes in their line-up and pitching staff, which almost rule them out as contenders.

It's an agressive move, but I like it. The Tigers feel like they are ready to compete for a championship and are making the moves they feek necessary.

[Logan]

I watched a lot of Dontrelle in the NL East...he's just not the same pitcher anymore. I'm willing to bet this isn't a "quick fix, everything's ok" situation.

[Crapshoot]

There is a legitimate point that if the Tigers are willing to go for broke in the draft each year and sign every high end talent (which is what they did with Miller, and with Porcello), than perhaps a deal like this makes sense. That being said, the difference between Willis and Miller last year was negligible (especially when adjusted for league)- going forward, I have more faith in the latter than the former. Cabrera is a talent, and I can almost understand giving up Maybin, but there had to be a Maybin + prospects deal out there that left Miller.

You are right in that I may have been too harsh initially. If the Tigers treat the draft the way they have in the past, it may not be much of an issue.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I disagree. Granted, my baseball knowledge is pretty weak, but I like this deal for the Tigers. I don't think they were convinced about Miller and they have that Procello guy they just drafted this year who is supposed to be lights out. He fell to them because of his outrageous contract demands.

Losing Maybin is tough, but like Bosshog said, the Tigers believe very much in Curtis Granderson. He had an amazing season last year and should be in CF for years to come.

The Tigers are finally in a spot where they should be competing for a championship. If they don't make this move, or some other move, they are leaving themselves in some type of limbo... They aren't re-building by any means, but then again they will still have some significant holes in their line-up and pitching staff, which almost rule them out as contenders.

It's an agressive move, but I like it. The Tigers feel like they are ready to compete for a championship and are making the moves they feek necessary.

Getting Cabrera is fantastic. Taking Dontrelle back AND including Andrew Miller is idiotic. Dontrelle is living on name alone right now and he isn't going to get better.

[Honolulu_Blue]

See, this is where my weak baseball knowledge comes in... Dontrelle definitely is living on name alone in my mind. I trust you guys that he's done like dinner. If so, then perhaps the pitching aspect of the deal is not so great.

What happened to Dontrelle? Isn't he kind of young? Was it an injury? What did he all of a sudden go into the crapper?

[Coffee Warlord]

Cubs dump Will "Oh, Man" Ohman and Omar Infante for Jose Ascanio.

Ping: Braves fans. He apparently threw a brief stint in the majors last year. He anything decent?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

There is a legitimate point that if the Tigers are willing to go for broke in the draft each year and sign every high end talent (which is what they did with Miller, and with Porcello), than perhaps a deal like this makes sense. That being said, the difference between Willis and Miller last year was negligible (especially when adjusted for league)- going forward, I have more faith in the latter than the former. Cabrera is a talent, and I can almost understand giving up Maybin, but there had to be a Maybin + prospects deal out there that left Miller.

You are right in that I may have been too harsh initially. If the Tigers treat the draft the way they have in the past, it may not be much of an issue.

This is where I can bring some of my hockey skillz to this game...

Based on Illitch's approach to the Red Wings over the last 15 or so years, I fully expect the Tigers to continue to treat the draft in this way. Illitch is an excellent owner. He is very willing to spend money on his organizations, particularly when they are in a position to compete for a championship. He has a ton of money invested in downtown Detroit and the Tigers' success the last two years really brought a lot of people downtown.

This whole decline of Dontrelle Willis thing is troubling...

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Getting Cabrera is fantastic. Taking Dontrelle back AND including Andrew Miller is idiotic. Dontrelle is living on name alone right now and he isn't going to get better.

I agree.

This whole thing would be idiotic.

Even if it was just for Cabrera, it would be idiotic. The Tigers hitting is not even remotely a problem, especially after adding Renteria and Jones.

This could be the first "bad" move I've seen DD make.

[Schmidty]

Oh shit. Did it just get confirmed????

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Oh shit. Did it just get confirmed????

Seems like it!

Woo hoo!

I love big trades! This will be exciting.

Stop being such a negative worry wort and hop on the Good Times Express!

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Seems like it!

Woo hoo!

I love big trades! This will be exciting.

Stop being such a negative worry wort and hop on the Good Times Express!

Oh goody. Now they'll score 1,500 runs, and give up just as many, or more, since it looks like Willis has regressed and was just a one-hit wonder.

[bosshogg23]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

See, this is where my weak baseball knowledge comes in... Dontrelle definitely is living on name alone in my mind. I trust you guys that he's done like dinner. If so, then perhaps the pitching aspect of the deal is not so great.

What happened to Dontrelle? Isn't he kind of young? Was it an injury? What did he all of a sudden go into the crapper?

He is young, only 24. ERA and walks have gone up 3 years in a row. To me the most troubling part is that he has already thrown over 1000 innings. On the plus side Willis will be the 4th or 5th starter this season so im not overly concerned..

I was looking forward to having Maybin playing in Reading PA this season. I was at one of his 5 AA games this season. He is built just like Calvin Johnson. Tiny waist and the potential to have massive chest and shoulders.

[Balldog]

Well, if we are moving back to Sterling Heights I think its time I break down and get some season tickets to the Tigers.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

See, this is where my weak baseball knowledge comes in... Dontrelle definitely is living on name alone in my mind. I trust you guys that he's done like dinner. If so, then perhaps the pitching aspect of the deal is not so great.

What happened to Dontrelle? Isn't he kind of young? Was it an injury? What did he all of a sudden go into the crapper?

Dontrelle is 25 with over 1k innings pitched in the majors. He's been overused and overuse at that young of an age usually results in a starter being more or less through by age 28 or so. Last year he pitched 205 innings, gave up 240 hits, struck out 146, gave up 29 homers, and had an ERA of 5.17.

His career is headed in the wrong direction and its because of workload, not because of a mechanical issue or anything like that.

[Crapshoot]

I am curious though - with the Lions in the perpetual shitter, is Detroit actually a baseball town now, or is that still only a secondary thing?

Some examples - Pittsburgh is a football town first, a Pitt town second, and a Pirates town about 20th. New York and Boston are both baseball towns first.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Oh goody. Now they'll score 1,500 runs, and give up just as many, or more, since it looks like Willis has regressed and was just a one-hit wonder.

Willis will turn it around! So will Bondo! Rogers will stay healthy. Verlander is Verlander. The pitching will be fine, Negative Nellie.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

See, this is where my weak baseball knowledge comes in... Dontrelle definitely is living on name alone in my mind. I trust you guys that he's done like dinner. If so, then perhaps the pitching aspect of the deal is not so great.

What happened to Dontrelle? Isn't he kind of young? Was it an injury? What did he all of a sudden go into the crapper?

I don't think the real answer is this simple, but it could definitely be a piece of it...his awkward delivery was surely a pain in the ass for hitters to pick up pitches, and it's possible over time that they adjusted. I'm hesitant with that though because 1) it usually doesn't take as long as Dontrelle was good for hitters to pick up on such a quirk and 2) having seen him a lot, his pitches just look flatter and he's lost control.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

What happened to Dontrelle? Isn't he kind of young? Was it an injury? What did he all of a sudden go into the crapper?

Hard to say exactly why he's declined, though it's likely some measure of wear on his arm, probably combined with the league adjusting to him. It's likely that part of his success was due to the deception in his delivery, but with time perhaps the league has adjusted to it, and if his arm speed has slowed (which it reportedly has) his breaking balls have less bite and his fastball less speed.

FWIW, Carlos Gomez did a video analysis of his delivery earlier this year and has theories of why his velocity has dropped:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...ideo-analysis/

Whatever the root cause - overuse? injury? - he's clearly not the same pitcher he used to be, with a declining K rate and an increasing BB rate. I think Miller is likely to be the better pitcher over the next 5 years than Dontrelle.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I am curious though - with the Lions in the perpetual shitter, is Detroit actually a baseball town now, or is that still only a secondary thing?

Some examples - Pittsburgh is a football town first, a Pitt town second, and a Pirates town about 20th. New York and Boston are both baseball towns first.

It's hard to say with Detroit. Ever since the Tigers' run last year, people were going on and on about how Detroit is (and always) has been a "baseball" town. Of course, Detroit was/is known as "Hockeytown" (a nomicker I've always hated). Then, on any given weekend, you can have anywhere up to 130,000 "locally" attending football games in either Detroit, Ann Arbor, or Lansing (this doesn't include the Western, Eastern, or Central Michigan games). Then you have the Pistons.

All in all, Detroit is a very sound sports town. If I had to pick, I think the Lions would be first if they ever managed to pull their act together. But over the last 20 years or so each team/sport has been number one at one point or another.

[Schmidty]

I am getting more and more sad when I think about this pointless trade. And that's why I'm sad: IT'S POINTLESS!!!!

Tigers had a guy in Miller that could be an all-star within a year or two, and a guy in Maybin that could be an MVP candidate sooner than later. Yeah, Cabrera's good, but HITTING WAS NOT A PROBLEM!!!!!!!

Pointless, horrible, depressing trade.

[Atocep]

This will mean the Tigers will have traded away 4 of their top 5 prospects heading into this offseason and their top remaing players under 25 according to BP are:

1.) Porcello
2.) Zumaya - not good when your #2 player under age 25 is a releiver
3.) Casey Crosby - 19 year old with #3 starter potential....

So their farm system is gutted and I think Maybin was worth giving up to get a guy like Cabrera, but Miller, Hernandez, and Jurrjens are not worth Willis and Renteria especially when it leaves your farm system in as bad as shape as the Tigers will be in after this deal.

They go from a mid-level farm system with some very high ceiling prospects to 1 high ceiling prospect and a bunch of guys that might stick in the majors.

[Logan]

Hey, at least Cabrera says he's gonna lose some weight. So he's got that going for him.

[SirFozzie]

BTW, the Angels are saying if they were ever in for Santana, they are now out.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._not_in_o.html

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I am getting more and more sad when I think about this pointless trade. And that's why I'm sad: IT'S POINTLESS!!!!

Tigers had a guy in Miller that could be an all-star within a year or two, and a guy in Maybin that could be an MVP candidate sooner than later. Yeah, Cabrera's good, but HITTING WAS NOT A PROBLEM!!!!!!!

Pointless, horrible, depressing trade.

Don't worry, Schmidty, I'm personally saving you a spot on the Good Times Express when it gets rolling next summer.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

Hey, at least Cabrera says he's gonna lose some weight. So he's got that going for him.

I was very encouraged by this report.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Don't worry, Schmidty, I'm personally saving you a spot on the Good Times Express when it gets rolling next summer.

It'll be a fun team to watch......for a year or two. After that, it'll be the Burnt-out Boxcar Express.

And the Tigs still won't be able to beat the Sox this year. No bullpen.

[Buccaneer]

Just read that the Pads will be signing Peavy to a huge (relatively speaking) contract extension. Compared to what Santana will get, the numbers they are saying makes me very happy and will be a bargain (around $17m per year plus perf bonuses).

[Reyna]

Originally Posted by Logan

Hey, at least Cabrera says he's gonna lose some weight. So he's got that going for him.

Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who saw Cabrera in Miami on Sunday, said the third baseman "has lost about 15 pounds, maybe a little bit more," according to the Times. "If you see Miguel Cabrera now, you will be surprised."

[bosshogg23]

Originally Posted by Reyna

Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who saw Cabrera in Miami on Sunday, said the third baseman "has lost about 15 pounds, maybe a little bit more," according to the Times. "If you see Miguel Cabrera now, you will be surprised."

I hope that is the case but I would guess that Sheffield retires after this season and Cabrera ends up in RF next season with Maggs at DH. He was carrying way too much weight this season. His defense wasn't very pretty.

I think FL got the better end of the trade but im glad to see the Tigers willing and able to try and improve.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This will mean the Tigers will have traded away 4 of their top 5 prospects heading into this offseason and their top remaing players under 25 according to BP are:

1.) Porcello
2.) Zumaya - not good when your #2 player under age 25 is a releiver
3.) Casey Crosby - 19 year old with #3 starter potential....

So their farm system is gutted and I think Maybin was worth giving up to get a guy like Cabrera, but Miller, Hernandez, and Jurrjens are not worth Willis and Renteria especially when it leaves your farm system in as bad as shape as the Tigers will be in after this deal.

They go from a mid-level farm system with some very high ceiling prospects to 1 high ceiling prospect and a bunch of guys that might stick in the majors.

Prospects don't win you world series, players do.

[JS19]

Lets not forget now Tigers fans, you are getting one of the top hitters in all the game. I used to big a firm believer in holding on to the prospects and such, but as you remain in limbo pinning your hopes on the uncertain future of "can't miss" prospects, other teams are improving and leaving you behind. Seeing how the Sox are likely to land Santana, and the Yankees just being the Yankees, as well as Cleveland winning the division last yr, Tigers needed to do something to keep up.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JS19

Lets not forget now Tigers fans, you are getting one of the top hitters in all the game. I used to big a firm believer in holding on to the prospects and such, but as you remain in limbo pinning your hopes on the uncertain future of "can't miss" prospects, other teams are improving and leaving you behind. Seeing how the Sox are likely to land Santana, and the Yankees just being the Yankees, as well as Cleveland winning the division last yr, Tigers needed to do something to keep up.

Exactly. Prospects are great but in 4 years when both are ready to shine, we'll be without a good chunk of our current roster. Give me the 24 year old surefire (or as close as can be) hall of fame 3B and a SP with some talent any day of the week.