Pro Strategy Football 2013 for iphone/ipad released! Post impressions.

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by JimboJ

Not interested. Time to focus on career mode :-)

Agree

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Got free time today and tomorrow if anybody wants to play.

[Flasch186]

I have been pretty clear as to what IMO you should be focusing on and that I felt you could easily be pulled in different directions. My opinion, as unimportant as it is, remains the same.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Flasch, you've given great feedback, and it appears to me at least that you and I still see the meat of the app being the coaching and sim side.

Great point about getting pulled in different directions. That is very true!

[markprior22]

I'm looking forward to the day when the title reads "update available for iphone/ipad and Android. :-)

[Pro Strategy Football]

Yep. If I could, I would have a small team and we would create a multi-platform game with franchise and also with multiplayer online season play.

But alas, mateys (it is pirate day) I'm a solitary landlubber. Currently working on the iPad/universal, hope to wrap that up in 2-3 weeks, and then I really want to start a blog thread on franchise to see how to best fit that with the game. I'll occasionally toss in more features like more formations, but do need to find the right focus to increase sales and drive high quality.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, there's a new review out on pocket tactics today, and I think Owen does a great job of highlighting the strengths (simulation, coaching) and weaknesses (graphics, no manager mode) of PSF 2013.

I really can't do much about the animation, I'll never compete with Madden and others in that area, and I'm not sure I can spruce up the UI much more - other than working on the iPad versions (and unfortunately, I don't have a retina iPad for testing yet).

But what I can and should do is continue focusing on those things I can improve, namely, the logic and simulation options; and start serious work on the manager/franchise logic.

As Flasch alludes to above, the wish list has really grown (and no one's mentioned one of my favorites, offering other leagues of past teams), and I'm letting myself get pulled in many directions, so stepping back and prioritizing is a big task this weekend, but I thought his review was very informative (and a nice review, I thanked him!).

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Let me preface this by saying I've played this game numerous times and I have never had a game like this. Ironically, my one complaint with the game is that it's too hard to move the ball!

Part of the explanation for what happened is that in the beginning of the second Half the computer figured I would run out the clock and began calling short yardage defenses daring me to throw, which I was more than happy to do that and the nine turnovers!

[Pro Strategy Football]

wow, I've never seen that! I wonder why it flaked out like that. Thanks for sharing it, and that's pretty funny given your first comment about moving the ball (and I do agree with you, and I'm having trouble balancing out improving offensive performance and not turning it into an arcade game - something I do want to discuss after I finish the current stuff).

a game like that should help your season stats! :-)

[Pro Strategy Football]

LSWFS, do let me know if you find a way to consistently duplicate that. I wonder if maybe the computer didn't initialize the data that it uses when watching your calls, because it was clearly off.

Two thoughts come to mind
(1) did you just complete a game, especially one where you ran a lot?
(2) were you in a different game and then switched to this one? Maybe it didn't reload this part correctly.

Thanks for catching this, I'm adding it as a bug, and I'll research it.

Thanks!

[Pro Strategy Football]

On the iPad front, I've been going back and forth between (a) showing smaller buttons and more info, or (b) making the buttons larger (similar to the 2x size, but much, much crisper). After testing on an actual iPad (non-retina), I'm going for the larger buttons in most places, but I'm also going to improve some specific screens (such as season screens) to display more information.

Getting this going was tougher than I thought, and I had to upgrade a library (which means lots of testing to make sure that library doesn't break anything else), but it's now moving along!

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Man, its a bug? I was really hoping it was my expert coaching!!

1) This was the fourth game of the season. . I definitely run the ball more than I pass. I don't have my Ipad on me, but my guess is 60/40 run pass ratio going into this game

A play that was highly successful for me was to run a 2 te set in running situations ie 2nd and 3, keep all my blockers in and run a one man route with brandon marshall on play action.

Like I said, once I got a big enough lead, the computer began calling a lot of short yardage defenses not just on obvious running downs, but on first down as well. It was like it was expecting me to run out the clock even though I was clearly showing I had something else in mind :-)

2) I do have another game against a friend going, but he wasn't on which is why I started the other game. This is to say I wasn't switching back and forth between games while I was playing this one.

Also, they did turn the ball over nine times! They fumbled the ball twice in their own territory and on the very next play I would call that play action two te set to marshall. Touchdown on the first play of the drive each time after the fumble out of that formation.

Hope this helps.

[Pro Strategy Football]

LOL, ok, I need to not have the computer think you'll run out the clock just because you have a big lead - good catch! And I'll check that formation/play calling. Keep me posted, the important thing is for the game to continue having replayability for you. If it gets to where you win too easily, it'll quit being fun!

It is weird that sometimes some very bad things happen to one team or the other (like a lot of penalties or turnovers). All I do is compute the chances and "roll the dice" - neither team should be punished any more than the other. I guess that's the nature of randomness, but I need to investigate it.

I'm working on the iPad version right now, looking at any possible bugs (including what you mentioned here), and I'm going to be making the teams/players spreadsheets available asap, ready for an early season tweking of teams.

I still think I may need to add a "Beginners" mode at some point, but from posts here, FB, Pocket Tactics, etc, I think that it'll be time to discuss the Franchise mode in earnest after I get an initial iPad / universal app out.

Thanks again, LWSFS!

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, don't know whether I'll have time, but Kolbex is trying to get a tournament going over on pockettactics!

Pro Strategy Football Playoffs (Tournament)? - Pocket Tactics Forums

[Pro Strategy Football]

It was a lot of work getting the higher res textures, especially the particles for raining and snow, but it's done! My brother really likes the universal app, says it looks so much better to him.

Some other key points:

• added Scouting Report and Get Advice buttons to Offensive and Defensive screens (iPad only)
• iPad animation screen shows the full scoreboard at the top. Took some work to get it to show the correct situation and number of timeouts when reviewing past plays, but I like it!
• if you tap SIM on a season game where your team is one of the teams, you'll get a confirmation popup
• added new option on the Coach menu, where you can select "SIM Rest of the Game"
• added Clock button to the defensive screen when you're defending Punts and FGs
• corrected wording on Power I (Left)
• slightly tweaked logic on penalties (AND now resets the seed before every game, that was an oversight); you can still have a bad game, of course, but they should be rare

I hope you guys like it! I'll try to upload the teams' spreadsheets before next weekend (sorry, weekdays are just so busy), because I'd like to do a tweak to the teams this month. I'll try to set up a thread somewhere so we can consolidate suggestions.

I'll update you all when I get news that it's approved (or even rejected, I've had that happen when I overlooked something).

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, guys, I thought I'd check my email before heading to bed, and I saw that Apple has approved the update! PSF 2013 should now be a universal app (my first time doing that), and it has the updates I mentioned. You shouldn't have any problems picking up existing games, but once one person updates, their multiplayer games will require their opponents to update as well.

Busy week ahead for me, but I'll be checking for feedback, and I'm going to look at the Game Center changes that came with iOS 7 to see if I'm missing anything. And I really do want to start on those team tweaks by next weekend, so be thinking about that and give me your input!

[RainRaven]

Been a bit of time for people to fiddle with this version. Any interest in a tournament or league?

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I would be up for it.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Also I have free time tomorrow if anyone wants to play

[RainRaven]

Down to 2.99 for those who don't have it. Sending challenge LWSFS

[RainRaven]

Props to LWSFS for a great game of football. Fumbled with 1:30 left and he drove the length of the field and I barely stopped him at the three yard line as the game ended on a screen pass. A defensive 17-10 slugfest that probably was one of the top football games on any system I have ever played against due to the swings during the game.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Had a lot of fun also. Can't believe I outgained you by 70 yards because I felt like you dominated me the whole game.

[RainRaven]

For about two and half quarters you would be right, but that last quarter and a half was all you. I couldn't sustain any offense and my missed 50 plus yard field goal allowed you to have a shot every time I turned the ball over in those last 10 minutes of the fourth quarter.

[Pro Strategy Football]

I'm testing a little more tomorrow morning, then submitting the next patch - sorry it's taken so long. This next patch will include, among other things, a new option to set the quarter length for your game and even set the default quarter length for your season (important so that your stats don't get out of whack). In addition, the Bears and Lions saw their teams modified a little. Calvin Johnson will be a lot better.

On the main Season screen, I changed the "weekly schedule" button to now tell you which week you're in.

And fixed a bug where sometimes the playoff listings looked wrong (but they were actually correct, just put teams in the wrong conference on the screen, but paired them correctly in the game).

Tweaked penalties again, hoping there won't be any more 300 penalty yard games.

[RainRaven]

Sounds like a good patch. For anyone interested there is a league/tournament going on at quarter to three if anyone wants to join in.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Patch is now live, so let me know if you encounter any problems! If you test the backups and/or iCloud, please give me feedback. I had limited opportunities for testing that (I think you may have to turn it on in settings?)

You can now set 5:00, 7:30, 10:00, or 15:00 minute quarters. Also check out the Season screen; you can set the default Season quarter length, too.

Also, see if Game Center has improved. If not, there's now an option in Settings to poll Game Center. What it does is pull the match down manually every few seconds rather than wait for GC to push it. It *seemed* to be more robust during testing, but it will mean using more data if you're not on wifi. You can turn that option on and off.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, I want to discuss the "Career" mode. Given my limited time, it's very critical that I nail down the best features and requirements I can, and I'd like to share a few thoughts with you guys. And from what I can tell, you guys know more about Career and Franchise games that I'll find anywhere else. I'm just not sure whether my Career mode will suffice, so I want to ask before I jump into it with both feet.

BTW, for Android user, I've touched base with a company that has a product named Apportable, and it's been used very successfully in porting iOS games to Android. I'm *very* interested in that, and will be trying it out when I have 3-4 days straight when I can work on it.

And that brings me to my biggest question - Career mode. I need to be very clear on what my ideas are, and I don't want to waste time on this if it's not going to increase popularity. I don't want to create a GM game, with hour-long drafts and heavy-GM focus.

What I want to create is a multi-season Coaching option, where drafting would be pretty simple, and most of the focus is on training and preparing your team for each week (of course, you can always play exhibition games for quick pick up games). In my approach, you might look at the fact that your star QB is now aging and has lost a step, and you look at the overall description/grades of the draft AS A WHOLE - not examining each individual man in the draft.

It would be like you're the coach, and you tell your front office, "I need you to find me a good starting QB or at least a good backup. I also need to improve my run blocking." And you look at the draft and realize you're just not going to get the run-blocking, so maybe you say, "Never mind, work on the QB, but also find me a great Inside LB who can start as soon as possible."

My question is, is that worthwhile effort? I've checked out several GM type games, and that's not PSF, but if a multi-season *coaching* game is appealing, I can work that!

[DaddyTorgo]

That seems like an interesting option that I imagine would be good for folks here. Maybe a "prioritization level" type indicator for each position in the draft, and then you'd randomize the talent of the drafted individual based upon the "true strength" of each position group (so a more talented group of QBs would have a higher chance of producing a talented QB).

[Pro Strategy Football]

I like that, DaddyTorgo! And I need to somehow reflect your position in the draft. If you're first, that's great, but if you're way down, there needs to be some kind of cost to trading up, or maybe I expand your idea to say, "you can't get the top QB, but we can get you a QB with these ratings: x, x, x, ..." and I send that top QB to one of the other teams.

And I need to have some sort of "cap" (points or something) so that you can't just build a team of all maxed out players. I'm going to see how feasible the Apportable is, too - would love to have a working Android version for 2014 as well.

This would be single player initially, and I imagine it would either flop or it would be popular, and people would give me feedback on improving it. Once it's nailed down solidly, I could work on a multiplayer, multi-season approach.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

I like that, DaddyTorgo! And I need to somehow reflect your position in the draft. If you're first, that's great, but if you're way down, there needs to be some kind of cost to trading up, or maybe I expand your idea to say, "you can't get the top QB, but we can get you a QB with these ratings: x, x, x, ..." and I send that top QB to one of the other teams.

And I need to have some sort of "cap" (points or something) so that you can't just build a team of all maxed out players. I'm going to see how feasible the Apportable is, too - would love to have a working Android version for 2014 as well.

This would be single player initially, and I imagine it would either flop or it would be popular, and people would give me feedback on improving it. Once it's nailed down solidly, I could work on a multiplayer, multi-season approach.

Yeah - I think you could probably even get away without trading draft picks in a first version.

And I imagine you could have something where each team that picks has a modified chance of picking the best available player at the position they're targeting based on their "scouting talent."

[Pro Strategy Football]

Ooooo, scouting talent, nice idea!! Thanks!

I agree about trading for this first pass. There's a lot to learn, so getting something robust and working out in users' hands is first priority.

Biggest tasks this year are:
- Android
- Career
- Simple version (I know some people in real life who would love to play my game but don't want to make all those choices, just let them call basic plays)
- cross-platform multiplayer

Oh, and for the iPad at least, I'm going to make it so you can view a player's season and lifetime stats while in a game. That way, you might for example realize that if your HB can get 45 more yards rushing, he'll break 2000 for the season.

I've already improved clock options and added more offensive formations., and I've greatly improved the fonts. Anything else will have to wait until after all these.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

That seems like an interesting option that I imagine would be good for folks here. Maybe a "prioritization level" type indicator for each position in the draft, and then you'd randomize the talent of the drafted individual based upon the "true strength" of each position group (so a more talented group of QBs would have a higher chance of producing a talented QB).

Like this idea as well. I think a simplified draft is the way to go. I also think people will instinctively realize that if they had a great record, they will be drafting lower in the first round so even though they might have prioritized offensive line that the offensive lineman they end up with could still be mediocre.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks, LWSFS, sounds good!

[JimboJ]

I like the idea of a simplified draft. It fits in with the theme of the game being a head coaching sim. You determine what your team needs are for the offseason, and its up to the GM and the scouting department to do their best to fill those needs.

I'm also looking forward to the Android version, since my son no longer has his iPad for me to play on. Would love to be able to play this game on my Samsung phone.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks, JimboJ, sounds great. I hope to have good news on Android before April, wish me luck. :-)

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Also looking forward to the android version so I can play on my phone. As of now I only play the game on my ipad which I don't take out of the house

[Pro Strategy Football]

Android conversion is coming along nicely. In fact, I have it "working" almost 100%, but the UI will need a lot of work - and no multiplayer yet. Now that I have the conversion down, I'd like to switch back to the career thoughts.

I have a key question regarding how you first create a career. I'll give you the option of selecting any team, of course, but what about the "difficulty" or "realism" - meaning, say you select Seattle. By default, you would have a great team and be expected to go to the Super Bowl or at least the Conference Championship game. Would you want an option like "I want to pick team x, but make them all newbies"?

[JimboJ]

Great news about the android version! Really looking forward to it! I miss playing the game since I no longer have an iPad.

As for career mode, I think what people value more than anything is realism. In future versions, you can add options like randomized ratings or an initial fantasy draft. In the meantime if you want more of a challenge, you can always take over the Jaguars.

[PilotMan]

Yay for android! Can't wait to play it.

[Flasch186]

Realism / sim

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Very excited for the Android Version...as for career mode, I will echo what JimboJ said. Don't include everything in one release! Get the career mode working for this version and then next year's version can include difficulty modes, initial fantasy draft etc.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Originally Posted by JimboJ

In the meantime if you want more of a challenge, you can always take over the Jaguars.

LOL! I'll tell you, I coached Cleveland against a friend. Man, that was painful.

Thanks for the input, guys! I'm starting to feel a lot of time crunch, since I'm going to be backpacking for 2-3 weeks this summer, but your comments about not having to have everything in this release is really encouraging.

I do think I'll have the app set expectations when you select a team, and if you continually fall short, it'll affect your team's morale. For example, expectations won't be that high with Jax or Cleveland (or Dallas, /cry), but will be high for New England, Seattle, Denver, etc.

[JimboJ]

Another suggestion... If you haven't already done so, check out Gridiron Solitaire on Steam. Its a solitaire game based around football. It's very well done and a blast to play. And the developer, Bill Harris, is a great guy who, like yourself, is committed to continually improving his game.

The reason I mention it is because it has a very simple career mode. You are given a certain number of dollars (or points) at the end of the season. The worse your record, the more dollars you have to spend. You use those dollars to sign new players to try to improve your team. Positions that you don't improve could decline in talent as players age and go through their normal career arc. It's very rudimentary, but it allows you to play out a career, with the added strategy of deciding which areas of you team to improve within a limited budget.

I know you mentioned that you are feeling a time crunch. I think if you could add a simple career mode like this, it would be a great start that you could build on in the future.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by JimboJ

I like the idea of a simplified draft. It fits in with the theme of the game being a head coaching sim. You determine what your team needs are for the offseason, and its up to the GM and the scouting department to do their best to fill those needs.

I'm also looking forward to the Android version, since my son no longer has his iPad for me to play on. Would love to be able to play this game on my Samsung phone.

When there is an android version I will be all over it.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks, JimboJ! I'll get that app!

Julio, I'll be real excited when the Android's done. I showed it to my son last weekend, who was surprised it's that far along. I've shifted to now fixing bugs introduced by the move to the new library, I've added a few formations, and now working on the databases for career mode.

I will need "clean up" time to get the Android version ready, so I expect it to be released 3-4 weeks after the iOS one, unless I just discoverer an easy way to handle the different resolutions and layouts. But functionally, it's already there!

The one thing I don't have yet is multiplayer. That may be added later, if necessary.

[Julio Riddols]

Oh, its necessary

No rush though, a good product takes time, and I take comfort in knowing great care was put into the thing I am purchasing.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Oh, its necessary

Touche!!

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JimboJ

Another suggestion... If you haven't already done so, check out Gridiron Solitaire on Steam. Its a solitaire game based around football. It's very well done and a blast to play. And the developer, Bill Harris, is a great guy who, like yourself, is committed to continually improving his game.

The reason I mention it is because it has a very simple career mode. You are given a certain number of dollars (or points) at the end of the season. The worse your record, the more dollars you have to spend. You use those dollars to sign new players to try to improve your team. Positions that you don't improve could decline in talent as players age and go through their normal career arc. It's very rudimentary, but it allows you to play out a career, with the added strategy of deciding which areas of you team to improve within a limited budget.

I know you mentioned that you are feeling a time crunch. I think if you could add a simple career mode like this, it would be a great start that you could build on in the future.

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

Thanks, JimboJ! I'll get that app!

FWIW the end of season was the exact point at which I stopped playing that game. It was so simple that for me it may as well not have been there, and I lost complete interest in continuing playing the game after seeing it

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, guys, just a follow up. I'm working through the Career mode use cases, and I'm excited about the new screens for checking out teams and players across the time span of your career. The hard part right now is settling on new attributes and keeping the game realistic and simple to play, but adding enough new features to give you that sense of being the head coach.

So here's what I'm thinking so far. First off, I don't want any of your choices to be so huge that you can immediately create an unrealistically great team, but your choices should have small impacts that build up.

1. You create a Coach (name, age, etc) and select a team to start with. For now, you'll pick up that team in the 2014 preseason, and you'll make some choices regarding training and practicing. In a future version, I hope to offer past teams, so you might pick up the 1973 Dolphins, 77 Dallas, 2010 Bills, etc. But that's a long way off.

2. You coach your team through the season.

3. At the end of the season, some of your players may retire, and several players may see their attributes shift slightly as they age, based partly on their longevity rating and work ethic rating, and just aging.

4. For this initial version, the "draft" would be very, very simple. The front office tells you what they think about the upcoming players, and you communicate your priorities. They make choices, and you'll just have to find out over time whether the players taken are as good as they were on paper (some might be better). I like DaddyTorgo's idea of "how good is your scouting staff"

I know there's an idea of players having "potential" but I'm thinking of making that hidden, with the idea being that you don't really know what you've got until he's been around for several games. Maybe then I could reveal it? However, you should have a good idea of his work ethic. I think the longevity rating would be hidden, too, and you'd just see the effect on him as he ages.

That's a lot to do, so my question is, would that be enough for PSF 2014. Many of these ideas are from you guys, and I really appreciate it! And I figure you'll come up with more ideas once it's out, for PSF 2015.

I do have to decide just how many more attributes to add, since I want to keep it simple. I know condition, resilience, status, longevity, and work ethic, probably morale, too. Then I need to decide how each of those affect performance...

BTW, as I've mentioned, I'd like to eventually add in periodic, minor events like your HB getting the flu, which would lower his condition for this game. And let you build a game plan for the upcoming game, if you decide to practice some key plays over others. But I'm not sure these would be in the first version.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Something really amazingly stupid happened in my football app. I let it simulate a full season, and the Redskins finished 7-9 ... but won a playoff spot because everyone in the East sucked.
And then here's the amazing part:
(1) the defeated GB (10-6) in the wildcard round by driving 73 yards and kicking the winning FG with 0:03 seconds left, winning 24-21

(2) They intercepted Atlanta twice in the fourth quarter and scored twice, the last a QB run at 2:26, defeating Atlanta 35-20

(3) defeated Carolina (who???) 42-13 to win the NFC

(4) Even though New England completely dominated in the Super Bowl (38:34 time of possession to Washington's 21:18), and despite NE having *no* turnovers, the Skins somehow defeated the Patriots 28-21 to win the Super Bowl!! The MVP was the Washington QB, who completed 22 passes of 26 attempts.

Man, I must have added some serious bugs ... (seriously, most sims are much more what we'd expect, but this proves that in football, almost anything really can happen ...)