FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

...only goal is to be the black guy on Fox News who tells their old racist viewers that racism doesn't exist (which seems to be working).

Ah, the classic attack when someone disagrees with a person of colour.

For your reference, there are quite a few black individuals who don't share the same sentiments as those on the far left, such as Kmele Foster, Chloé Valdary, John McWhorter, Thomas Chatterton Williams, Coleman Hughes and Glenn Loury, to name a few. All are extremely insightful and generally focused on generating intelligent discussion rather than being on the Fox News. If one has an open-mind and is willing to broaden their perspective, I'd recommend seeking any of them out.

[RainMaker]

I am not disagreeing with him, an actual study of hate crimes is.

No problem with him. It's a good grift.

[ISiddiqui]

There are plenty of studies showing that black men with no criminal record are less likely to get calls back after an interview than white men with criminal records - with the exact same resume.

Not to mention black college graduates tend to have a much higher unemployment rate than other college graduates.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...duates/430971/

Focusing just on poverty doesn't address the systemic racism. It's a fools errand. And that's why a lot of black folk don't respond all that well to people who use that line (Bernie Sanders for one) because they've seen racism treat them worse than similarly situated white people.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Multiple* studies actually, both experimental and data-based. But don't let that cloud the narrative.

*The James et al 2014 Washington State study, the Correll et al 2014 Colorado/California State study, the 2016 Miller et al University of Maryland study, the 2016 Centre for Policing Equity study, the 2017 Fryer Harvard study, and the Johnson et al 2019 Michigan State study.

I stand corrected.

Do you ever plan on addressing on why you think you can entirely dismiss police racism, brutality and BLM's motivations, based on a handful of studies restricted to shootings?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The Wallace thing really fucking sucks. There's so much legitimate progress being made right now in areas that would have seemed fanciful 6 months ago and that was such an awesome gesture yesterday from a sport that you would never have expected to see, to find that it was (at best) somebody overreacting in the current climate is just going to have all the wrong impact. It's understandable why something like this would break and become a news story, but damn if it wouldn't have been better to do the research on it first.

And that's just considering the people who will honestly weigh things up, the conspiracy theorists and "hate crimes are fakers" crowd are going to have a field day.

But that's the thing, right? We should be like "Awesome, there isn't some asshat running around throwing nooses into pit row, it was just an honest mistake".

Instead, it's "the black guy faked a hate crime to get sympathy". Or claims of "hate crimes are mostly made up" when any of us who have spent more than 5 minutes in modern society know it's horse shit. Well, boys, I guess our job is done - no racism here /dusts off hands/

SI

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I am not disagreeing with him, an actual study of hate crimes is.

No problem with him. It's a good grift.

Here's Reilly's database, for what it's worth.

I'm sure one can probably pick and choose instances they don't feel belong there, but it's quite a substantial database.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Here's Reilly's database, for what it's worth.

I'm sure one can probably pick and choose instances they don't feel belong there, but it's quite a substantial database.

There are almost 8,000 hate crimes a year reported. He charted 600 over the last 40 years.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Ah, the classic attack when someone disagrees with a person of colour.

If one has an open-mind and is willing to broaden their perspective, I'd recommend seeking any of them out.

Ah, the classic "everyone who disagrees with me just doesn't have an open mind and is ignorant to the FACTS."

FACTS are hard for people like you, because you've decided that systemic racism isn't a thing despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. We all agree that economic and educational opportunities need to be improved, but those things alone won't magically "solve" racism. The fact is that white people seek out other white people. And when black people seek out the same neighborhoods and opportunities as those white people, they are shunned, threatened, and generally not welcomed.

It's easy for you to say that all problems are economic, because it allows you to not have to change your mindset whatsoever, which you've already determined is not the problem. Must be nice to have it all figured out. In reality, most people recognize these as super-complicated issues, ones that have to start with addressing the mindset of people that the 60's civil rights movement didn't just magically "solve" racism. Even among some supposedly enlightened liberals, a racist mindset still exists.

[JPhillips]

Long but interesting thread here.

https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/sta...89058354241536

The summary,

In a comprehensive assessment of the data available, I show that police killings are rising and it's basically because the police have been engaged in a 20-year-long riot against the republic.

This from a guy who writes for the Federalist and AEI.

[CU Tiger]

Just my thought to ponder for the day.
I dont think there is any doubt that racism exists in the country.

What Ive come to question, is there a racially diverse civilization in the world (or the history of the world) where it doesnt exist?

I am not suggesting it isnt a ideal that is right and good and we should aspire to, I am more starting to question if we as a species are capable of developing a society without it.

Sad thought to be honest, but Im not sure its incorrect.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

What Ive come to question, is there a racially diverse civilization in the world (or the history of the world) where it doesnt exist?

I am not suggesting it isnt a ideal that is right and good and we should aspire to, I am more starting to question if we as a species are capable of developing a society without it.

At this point in time racism exists in every society. But at one point in time, slavery existed in every society as well. So we CAN get better and move beyond things that seem a core of society.

And one can hope to get to a place where racism (systemic and individual) may still exist, but being more cognizant of it can continually lessen it's effects.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Just my thought to ponder for the day.
I dont think there is any doubt that racism exists in the country.

What Ive come to question, is there a racially diverse civilization in the world (or the history of the world) where it doesnt exist?

I am not suggesting it isnt a ideal that is right and good and we should aspire to, I am more starting to question if we as a species are capable of developing a society without it.

Sad thought to be honest, but Im not sure its incorrect.

As humans, we have evolved in a way to allow us to make fast decisions. Pondering if that tiger or lion is going to hunt you down and eat you rather than getting out of dodge is not conducive to propagating a species.

I think this is why we try to put things in boxes/categories. How often do we see people that do not eat something because it made them sick one time (and there could have been underlying reasons). When it comes to people that look different, act different, or talk different, we put them in a separate box. They are not one of "us".

What I find interesting is with regards to race, we think Europe is so much better than here. Yet Germany has had significant issues with Turks the last couple of decades, in the UK you have it as well of the softer variety (I am not going to promote him to that level, etc.), I have travelled here in the states with several people from Europe, we go into an urban core and every single one has locked the doors, or checked to make sure they are locked.

Is this a small sample size? Yes. But, I feel the reason we do not hear about it in Europe is the black population there (not sure African American is the correct term there) is so much smaller than it is here. In the UK, it is 5% of the population. In Germany it is .5%. In the Netherlands, it is approx. 4% of the population. Here in the US, African Americans are 12% of the population. Scale also matters, that 12% number for the US is a total of 40 million people. The entire UK has a population of 54 million.

Another way to consider things, we are only 75 years removed from a country that was systematically exterminating people that they could not even differentiate from each other based upon looks (the ideal Aryan baby from German propaganda was Jewish). We are only 1.5 generations of power brokers separated from that era. To think we are going to wipe it out in that time is a bit naive (many of those responsible for those beliefs are dead, but they passed it on and many of those people are still alive). In Africa, we saw it a couple of decades ago with the Rwanda genocide. Stalin had his purges which was both politically and ethnically based.

EDIT: That is not to say we should tolerate it or accept it. But to think it will all go away immediately is naive. It will take years due to generational effects to get there.

[GrantDawg]

I did a service today about a mile from the burned-out Wendy's. It was a check-cashing place. They were in the process of repairing damage because looters hit it the night of the fire. They didn't get anything, but they nusted pipes and flooded it.

[cartman]

Fired Wilmington cop: “We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f—— ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” [Free read] | Port City Daily

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by cartman

Fired Wilmington cop: “We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f—— ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” [Free read] | Port City Daily

Wow, talk about the enemy within. The casual tones of these conversations is the most disturbing part, none of these fuckers should have ever worn a badge and you know there are more of them in this department as this is a complete cultural thing that has been ongoing.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Wow, talk about the enemy within. The casual tones of these conversations is the most disturbing part, none of these fuckers should have ever worn a badge and you know there are more of them in this department as this is a complete cultural thing that has been ongoing.

And how there were 3 of them accidentally caught on tape or else this never would have come out.

SI

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And how there were 3 of them accidentally caught on tape or else this never would have come out.

SI

And you know there are ore than 3 in this clique. This is bringing a lot of evil front and center.

[Ben E Lou]

I pulled some of the worst comments into a twitter thread. There are others. This is Fuhrman-tape level stuff.

This is just so exhausting.

Wilmington cop: “We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them fucking niggers. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” https://t.co/hUiFzX9W7E

— Ben Lewis (@benelou) June 25, 2020

[cuervo72]

"Denied being racist."

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

"Denied being racist."

I work around people who say all sorts of racist stuff. And we're not even talking about the times when they lower their voice like a first grader to say stupid shit that they know is clearly wrong because they know I don't want to hear it. But sometimes they say some pretty awful stuff and, when called on it, are like "but I'm not a racist". Like they know that being racist is bad, but have no concept what racism looks like. Well, or they know that being called racist is bad, even if you are one. I suppose that's the more obvious thing. But with a lot of these people we're like a half generation or generation away from "I know racist is bad so I don't want to be called that" to "wait, why again is being a racist bad".

SI

[RainMaker]

The DA should look into every conviction that those cops were involved in.

[PilotMan]

It doesn't make me love the cops any more than I already do, that's for sure.

[Ben E Lou]

Yesterday, one of my wife's co-workers shared a disturbing but unsurprising bit of info that she just passed along to me: 20ish years ago, when he was working on his PhD in Psychology, he was involved in helping put some psych tests in place for a nearby PD to help screen out poor applicants. Prior to working with the police, this group had created standard norms to score job applicants in various areas, and if they were above certain thresholds, those were red flags that they'd pass along to the hiring entity.



When they tested the first round of PD applicants, they had to create entirely new scales. Why? Because so many were off the scale for authoritarianism, narcissism, and aggression, (and one or two others that my wife didn't remember,) that the PD wouldn't have been able to hire anywhere near the number of people needed.


I know it has been said and hinted in various ways, but it bears repeating: this is a job that is attractive to people with problematic personalities. Further it's apparently unattractive to those who don't have those traits, otherwise they could have just weeded out the bad ones and not changed the scale entirely.



How do we fix that?

[Brian Swartz]

Honestly my first answer is don't allow changing the scale to be an option. Not enough candidates? Hire less police. Put the ones you have on the most vital tasks. I think it's better to accept a more limited force than it is to have people doing it who shouldn't be.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

How do we fix that?

I'd be curious if officers with a 4-year degree in criminal justice have less complaints. Or those who have some kind of law background.

Like a comprehensive study of the background of officers to see which areas pull up flags on a large scale. There has to be a trend for this to make it easier to weed out bad applicants. If the solution is requiring them to have a college degree on a subject and paying $30k more a year, than so be it.

I also wondered if sort of a GI Bill would work for upcoming officers. They go to school, become a cop, and continue to finish their schooling. Can learn a lot more than just the police stuff from the academy. Stuff like handling people with mental health problems and so on.

Also Ben, if you're using Firefox:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[RainMaker]

Here is what was found in Wallace's garage. I don't know what else you'd call it but a noose. I guess 11 other garages had a pull down rope but this was the only one fashioned as a noose.

I can see how some random member of the crew saw this and was like wtf.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also wondered if sort of a GI Bill would work for upcoming officers. They go to school, become a cop, and continue to finish their schooling. Can learn a lot more than just the police stuff from the academy. Stuff like handling people with mental health problems and so on.

]

This is a brilliant idea that somehow gets overlooked.

Just a thought:
The academy should just be the beginning. From that point have them on the street 2 days with another officer and 3 days in the classroom taking criminal justice courses, mental health etc. Keep officers in this cycle for 24 months, or whatever is determined to be an adequate amount of time, then give them full sanction.

Additional ideas based on my conversations with LEO's I know, including my son.

Currently (based on my samples) departments require 2-6 hours a year in combative training. This is fucking insane! Imagine a UFC fighter training for 6 hours leading up to a fight, or military training 6 hours of tactics a year before deployment? No, training is constant here and this is why several officers train BJJ at my academy. They don't get the training on the force. An adequately trained BJJ practitioner (blue belt and above) would be more confident, less likely to resort to deadly force and could still apply choke holds SAFELY (Put a suspect to sleep, cuff them, wake them up and move on)

So put officers on the street 4 days a week, allot one to training and cover combatives, mental health of the officers and deescalation. Or do what the Vegas PD does with the Gracies and partner with local academies.

I know police are held to a higher standard, but take a moment to think about how much of the general population is wired to handle that job without proper and continuous training? There is a reason not all military personnel can be Seals or Delta Force. The training weeds out those that are not capable and we probably need to look at law enforcement through a similar lens and provide ongoing training to allow that "higher standard" to be maintained.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here is what was found in Wallace's garage. I don't know what else you'd call it but a noose. I guess 11 other garages had a pull down rope but this was the only one fashioned as a noose.

I can see how some random member of the crew saw this and was like wtf.

That is definitely something that would and should have raised the alarm. Especially being able to see no other garages were like that. I think the report was justified and also appreciate how much urgency was put towards adjudicating the matter. People need to back off of Wallace. Especially twits like Curt Schilling calling him Jussie Smollet 2.0. Not even the same realm.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If the solution is requiring them to have a college degree on a subject and paying $30k more a year, than so be it.

I brought this up a few years ago in this thread, and still believe it to be a part of the solution. We want our officers to be professionals, but we neither pay them like professionals nor require schooling like professionals.


Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This resonates with a post I made a couple of months ago...
I suspect that a big issue is that we expect/demand street cops to be "professionals," yet the payscale is in a problematic space. It's too low to attract many on a true "professional" career track. But it's high enough that a 20-year-old with a G.E.D.* can make *significantly* more money than he could doing anything else.


**--YMMV on the details, depending on the state you're in, but my recollection is that in one of the states I checked 2 months ago when I made that post, they will accept a 20-year-old with a G.E.D. into their Academy. None of the handful of states I checked required more than a hs diploma.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

That is definitely something that would and should have raised the alarm. Especially being able to see no other garages were like that. I think the report was justified and also appreciate how much urgency was put towards adjudicating the matter. People need to back off of Wallace. Especially twits like Curt Schilling calling him Jussie Smollet 2.0. Not even the same realm.

Looks suspicious enough to me to be concerned. As I said before, our reaction should be "hey, good news - there's no one making nooses in pit row" and instead, it's lol-able "hey, racism is overblown" stuff.

At least it rid us of Curt Schilling on Twitter

SI

[lungs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

At least it rid us of Curt Schilling on Twitter

SI

Hopefully Aubrey Huff will follow.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

There wasn’t even a noose at all.
It was the “foot ring” found on every manual garage door ever installed.
My shop has 5 doors and everyone has one.

It’s so you can grab the cord and pull the door down.

Clay Travis is an idiot but he identified it and snapped photos of the 43 pit with the foot ring cut off and every other bay with it still in tact.

That said the point about Bubba never seeing it or reporting it is very valid in terms of differentiation.

Just wanted to mea culpa based on the pics that came out today... yeah that was intentionally fashioned to be a noose knot not just a pull cord.
Whether it was new or old, and whether it was directed at Bubba or not I have no clue...but wanted to admit my mistake regaridng what I thought was the case...

but I stand by my statement that Clay Travis is an idiot.

[cuervo72]

Add another incident to the list.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...state-n1232102

From last AUGUST.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

we CAN get better and move beyond things that seem a core of society.

And one can hope to get to a place where racism (systemic and individual) may still exist, but being more cognizant of it can continually lessen it's effects.

This is me as well. Racism does exist in a lot of places and may never be eradicated, but over time it can be mitigated.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Just wanted to mea culpa based on the pics that came out today... yeah that was intentionally fashioned to be a noose knot not just a pull cord.
Whether it was new or old, and whether it was directed at Bubba or not I have no clue...but wanted to admit my mistake regaridng what I thought was the case...

but I stand by my statement that Clay Travis is an idiot.

We don't agree on some things, but this is why I respect you

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

We don't agree on some things, but this is why I respect you

We definitely disagree on some points, but thats everyone, right?
Always felt like youd be a helluva guy to have a beer with and wax philosophically. I think there is more common than not there.

But I tr hrd to own when I am obviously wrong. Grow and learn. Ive changed my stance on lots of things, tbh.

:beer:

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Just wanted to mea culpa based on the pics that came out today... yeah that was intentionally fashioned to be a noose knot not just a pull cord.
Whether it was new or old, and whether it was directed at Bubba or not I have no clue...but wanted to admit my mistake regaridng what I thought was the case...

but I stand by my statement that Clay Travis is an idiot.

Thanks for this. I think most people after the news about the FBI result thought it was a pull cord. I didn't think it'd be that obviously a noose myself. I doubt it was intentionally directed at Bubba, but I can definitely see why a member of the Petty team thought it was. At this point, I'm just going to say [edit: no] blame for the Petty crew guy and NASCAR at this point.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

We definitely disagree on some points, but thats everyone, right?
Always felt like youd be a helluva guy to have a beer with and wax philosophically. I think there is more common than not there.

But I tr hrd to own when I am obviously wrong. Grow and learn. Ive changed my stance on lots of things, tbh.

:beer:

Cheers and I feel the same about you brother

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Thanks for this. I think most people after the news about the FBI result thought it was a pull cord. I didn't think it'd be that obviously a noose myself. I doubt it was intentionally directed at Bubba, but I can definitely see why a member of the Petty team thought it was. At this point, I'm just going to say blame for the Petty crew guy and NASCAR at this point.

But why is there blame to be directed at anyone? It's a noose. Investigating why it's there is a sensible thing to do, especially with the hangings that have been going on over the last month. Out of the 11 ropes used as garage stall door pulls, it's the only one fashioned that way. It most likely wasn't directed at Bubba, but that still leaves unanswered questions: who did it and why and why wasn't it noticed for 9 months.

[ISiddiqui]

Ooops, I meant to say NO blame.

[illinifan999]

I encourage anyone once this COVID silliness is over to do a ride-along with their local police department. Even though you won't get the entire real deal, your eyes are gonna open.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

I encourage anyone once this COVID silliness is over to do a ride-along with their local police department. Even though you won't get the entire real deal, your eyes are gonna open.

Big proponent of this and if possible in a sketchy area of town. It will definitely open your eyes and I think it is fair to say change some opinions on how we need to reform law enforcement in this country. The ideas that some are floating could actually make things worse, because departments would either be understaffed or you would not be able to get the quality people we need to be Police.

Training, resources and oversight need to be improved and this costs money.

[thesloppy]

What's the process for requesting/doing a ride-along

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

What's the process for requesting/doing a ride-along

Varies, the last time I went I knew the officer, so he just got me the paperwork and took care of it.

The city I live requires you to complete and pass a background check, sign a waiver and they contact you if eligible. I assume this will be a pretty standard process.

Here is a link to give you an idea.
Ride-Along | Official Website - Surprise, Arizona

[Vegas Vic]

It appears that the New York City police department is being proactive in the defund movement. Retirements are up 49% from last year, and they plan on striking on July 4th. This should be entertaining.

272 NYPD Cops File for Retirement and Others Play Sick in Response to Anti-Police Brutality Protests

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

What's the process for requesting/doing a ride-along

Like BYU said, a lot of departments have the process posted on their website depending on how big/tech savvy the department is. Otherwise a phone call to your local department is the best bet. I know my department has suspended ride-alongs though with COVID for the time being and I'd imagine most others have also.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Like BYU said, a lot of departments have the process posted on their website depending on how big/tech savvy the department is. Otherwise a phone call to your local department is the best bet. I know my department has suspended ride-alongs though with COVID for the time being and I'd imagine most others have also.

Thanks, this never occurred to me. I googled and did not find a program in my county but found one in a couple neighboring counties.

I am sure people will learn a lot. What do you think are the top 1-3 items that we'll learn?

[Lathum]

My town is 96% white and black people from surrounding areas purposely drive around it even if that means going several miles out of the way. I am sure I'll get a fascinating glimpse into the wild world of noise complaints and lost cats.

[PilotMan]

The biggest trauma in my neighborhood of late is complaints about (dying) trees getting cut down and fireworks going off too late (after 10! OMG!). Despite that I can actually hear gunfire from time to time (all times of day), because there's enough rural around where people will do that on their property. That doesn't seem to faze anyone around here.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Thanks, this never occurred to me. I googled and did not find a program in my county but found one in a couple neighboring counties.

I am sure people will learn a lot. What do you think are the top 1-3 items that we'll learn?

Police work is boring the majority of the time unless you live in a good sized city. People call the police for EVERYTHING. There's a lot more going on in your city than you probably realize/what's reported.