POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[NobodyHere]

I just can't do it. I can't watch the NFL games today. Just watching the pre-game show it had 4 political ads in a row. I can't subject myself to that all day just to watch the Browns lose.

[Ksyrup]

I'm impressed with the Trump campaign's combination of anti-immigration and anti-trans rights into one commercial - even though one had nothing to do with the other (in terms of the Harris clip they showed).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm impressed with the Trump campaign's combination of anti-immigration and anti-trans rights into one commercial - even though one had nothing to do with the other (in terms of the Harris clip they showed).

We saw this one during the Mets game yesterday and couldn’t stop laughing at the absurdity of it. I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t already voting Trump would be swayed by this.

I’m in Jersey so I don’t see many thankfully.

[Ksyrup]

We're in KY and getting way more (from both sides) than we expected to see.

[Atocep]

After Musk appeared at Trump's rally last night and declared himself "dark MAGA" (whatever that means), I'm sure Jim Jordan will be opening an investigation into Twitter interfering in the election.

[Danny]

Musk just wants to feel like he belongs. Hes found his place now licking Trumps feet surrounded by MAGA.

[Ksyrup]

The look on Musk's face on stage reaching to shake Trump's hand is something I don't think even AI could adequately capture.

[Dutch]

Walz was absolutely wrecked over abortion on Fox News Sunday by Shannon Bream. If he could have at least started from a place of honesty, it could’ve gone better for him, but he couldn’t figure out how to say anything factual. He’s so weak. To paraphrase:

Walz: Trump wants an outright national abortion ban.
Bream: Trump has never done or said that, he says it should be left to the states. In Minnesota, you have a law for abortion to take place at any time, do you want that nationally?
Walz: No, I want Roe vs Wade.
Bream: Minnesota goes far behind Roe vs Wade. How is it that Trump wants the opposite of you when he’s never done what you’re saying he wants and you say you don’t want nationally what you have already done in your own state?
Walz: It’s different, Trump is lying about what he wants and I’m not.

Bumbling train wreck.

[thesloppy]

If that's a bumbling train wreck, wait until you hear what Trump has repeatedly said about abortions after birth.

[Lathum]

If you think Walz is a bumbling train wreck you should listen to about 30 seconds of a Trump rally.

If you don't think Trump will be used by the Heritage Foundation, Miller, Bannon, etc...as their useful idiot to enact a national abortion ban then you are amazingly naive. They are also coming for birth control, no fault divorce, etc...They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Walz was absolutely wrecked over abortion on Fox News Sunday by Shannon Bream. If he could have at least started from a place of honesty, it could’ve gone better for him, but he couldn’t figure out how to say anything factual. He’s so weak. To paraphrase:

Walz: Trump wants an outright national abortion ban.
Bream: Trump has never done or said that, he says it should be left to the states. In Minnesota, you have a law for abortion to take place at any time, do you want that nationally?
Walz: No, I want Roe vs Wade.
Bream: Minnesota goes far behind Roe vs Wade. How is it that Trump wants the opposite of you when he’s never done what you’re saying he wants and you say you don’t want nationally what you have already done in your own state?
Walz: It’s different, Trump is lying about what he wants and I’m not.

Bumbling train wreck.

This is a bumbling train wreck?

She misrepresents the Minnesota law and you're knocking Walz for using Trump and Vance's previous stances on abortion against him?

Trump and Vance have been all over the place on abortion. Trump is the reason Roe was overturned and has supported abortion bans until he realized it was hurting his election chances. Vance has previously supported them as well.

Tim Walz on Fox News Sunday on abortion rights: "Look, they may see this as an election issue. We see it as a right of women to make their own bodily decisions." pic.twitter.com/BzukaVnPrB

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 6, 2024

[cartman]

were we watching the same thing?

- YouTube

[Lathum]

dola- Trump is also one hamburder from a coronary and Vance absolutely would enact a national ban.

[Lathum]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/06/u...e-decline.html

[dubb93]

I don’t think Trump himself could have summarized that video worse than Dutch did.

[cuervo72]

He's far gone, guys. Probably not worth it.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Walz was absolutely wrecked over abortion on Fox News Sunday by Shannon Bream. If he could have at least started from a place of honesty, it could’ve gone better for him, but he couldn’t figure out how to say anything factual. He’s so weak. To paraphrase:

Walz: Trump wants an outright national abortion ban.
Bream: Trump has never done or said that, he says it should be left to the states. In Minnesota, you have a law for abortion to take place at any time, do you want that nationally?
Walz: No, I want Roe vs Wade.
Bream: Minnesota goes far behind Roe vs Wade. How is it that Trump wants the opposite of you when he’s never done what you’re saying he wants and you say you don’t want nationally what you have already done in your own state?
Walz: It’s different, Trump is lying about what he wants and I’m not.

Bumbling train wreck.

Trump is a moron,

Walz had the balls to go on Fox which is notoriously biased. Trump hides from any news organization that has the temerity to call his bullshit lies from his rotting aged advanced demetia brain like the coward he is.

Still haven't heard from you Dutch on how Trump disrepected fallen Americans at the Arlington debacle. Guess it's okay for Trump to do things like disrepect our American troops on such sacred ground.

Trump is a traitor and needs to be imprisoned.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Still haven't heard from you Dutch on how Trump disrepected fallen Americans at the Arlington debacle. Guess it's okay for Trump to do things like disrepect our American troops on such sacred ground.

.

and you never will. MAGA exists in the perfect echo chamber where nothing negative about dear leader get through. If something does it's fake news, if it isn't fake news excuses are made "everyone does it", "it wasn't that bad", and my favorite, "I know he said X but he really meant Y" then of course there is the deep state, etc...

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I just can't do it. I can't watch the NFL games today. Just watching the pre-game show it had 4 political ads in a row. I can't subject myself to that all day just to watch the Browns lose.

Having RedZone has been a life saver.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Trump is a moron,

Walz had the balls to go on Fox which is notoriously biased. Trump hides from any news organization that has the temerity to call his bullshit lies from his rotting aged advanced demetia brain like the coward he is.

Still haven't heard from you Dutch on how Trump disrepected fallen Americans at the Arlington debacle. Guess it's okay for Trump to do things like disrepect our American troops on such sacred ground.

Trump is a traitor and needs to be imprisoned.

I watched the gold star family members defend Trump. Very powerful messages from all of them. Have you seen those?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I watched the gold star family members defend Trump. Very powerful messages from all of them. Have you seen those?

Did you also see the messages from the families of the fallen soldiers whose headstones were included in the photos without their permission? Also very powerful. There is a reason those places have policies in place to keep them as places of remembrance, not used as photo ops.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I watched the gold star family members defend Trump. Very powerful messages from all of them. Have you seen those?

Why wouldn't these gold star families love the guy who dodged service and said people who are killed or wounded in action are suckers. Also, he negotiated that deal with the Taliban that got the soldiers killed. National HERO.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cartman

Did you also see the messages from the families of the fallen soldiers whose headstones were included in the photos without their permission? Also very powerful. There is a reason those places have policies in place to keep them as places of remembrance, not used as photo ops.

Well they let the mentally ill maintain those places don't ya know.

[Atocep]

My wife had a long discussion about immigration with her best friend, who is a big GOP supporter, and it really is indicative of any discussion on here with Dutch.

First, she claims to be center right and not at all a person that blindly supports the GOP but she's never voted for a democrat in her life. The discussion started with Trump vs Kamala and her friend said she doesn't like some of the stuff Trump does and says but she can't bring herself to vote Kamala after what she did to California, but she couldn't explain anything she specifically did to California to justify that stance. She's a foster parent that has a Guatemalan teenager with a baby that's here on temporary status. My wife's friend was going on and on about how something needed to be done about illegals in the country and she supported mass deportations.

The problem with debating this issue with her was, when presented with any evidence that contradicted her viewpoint, she would spin in the best possible light and if she couldn't she would say you can't trust anything in print media so if there isn't a video of Trump saying something then it just can't be trusted. So Trump's Time interview where he stated he supported using the military to deport migrants couldn't be trusted.

I dug up the recent Trump interview here he stated that he supported revoking temporary status to deport Haitians. My wife pointed out that, while her foster child isn't Haitian, she is under the same status as Haitians, and therefore at risk for deportation under a Trump administration. She tried to argue semantics, my wife stood her ground, and the she asked what Kamala's immigration policy is, not expecting an answer. My wife pointed out the border bill that republicans shot down to benefit Trump and laid out what it would have done. All things she had just said she would like to see at the border. Her response was a rant about how both sides are bad and since she lives in Washington she probably won't vote because it doesn't matter.

My point is, most GOP supporters will spin absolutely everything Trump does in the best possible way, ignore any proof to the contrary, and spin everything Dems do in the worst possible way. Admittedly, there is some both sides here, but we're talking something like 75/25 or something in that ballpark. GOP media does not cover the bad things and that's the only media most GOP supporters consume. The live in a bubble where everything is spun in a way that shapes their worldview and they filter out anything that goes against what their media is telling them.

[GrantDawg]

Just watching a Tik Tok series by a FEMA employee explaining what they do and do not do. You can see the kernels of truth that people use to create these often elaborate conspiracy theories. It works because people are willing to think the worst of everything that FEMA does.



"FEMA is confiscating supplies to send to sanctuary cities". What? FEMA takes donations and sorts them into needs boxes to distribute in that area. They aren't shipping supplies out to San Fransisco.



"FEMA only gives you $750 dollars and then they take your property." The $750 is an emergency grant (ie. not taxes and does not require pay back) for immediate needs. It is not the sum total of any help you get, and it definitely isn't a payment for you property.
"You have to pay any FEMA money back once you get insurance money." FEMA help for expenses is just what insurance will not pay. They help for things not usually covered, and it caps out at about $45k. FEMA is not doubling your insurance money, nor do they pay for your total loss. They are not a replacement for insurance.


FEMA's biggest role and cost outlay is to fund local efforts in rescue and help coordinate the effort from far flung agencies. FEMA doesn't have rescue teams. They reimburse the cost of police, fire, National Guard. They help pay for food kitchens and other organizations on the ground. They are mostly accountants and auditors.

Most importantly, FEMA doesn't take property. I have heard the rumor about FEMA's plans to steal property since the early 90's.

[NobodyHere]

I thought the role of FEMA was to put patriots into concentration camps!

[albionmoonlight]

Saw two "truck parades" this weekend while trying to enjoy the good weather with my family (Basically cars/trucks with lots of honking and flag waiving).

One was pro-Trump. One was pro-Palestine.

I know enough to not try to put too much stock into things like that (No matter how hard you want to vote for Trump or against Biden/Harris, it is still only one vote), but it also didn't really set my mind at ease as a Harris supporter, you know?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Atocep

My wife had a long discussion about immigration with her best friend, who is a big GOP supporter, and it really is indicative of any discussion on here with Dutch.

First, she claims to be center right and not at all a person that blindly supports the GOP but she's never voted for a democrat in her life. The discussion started with Trump vs Kamala and her friend said she doesn't like some of the stuff Trump does and says but she can't bring herself to vote Kamala after what she did to California, but she couldn't explain anything she specifically did to California to justify that stance. She's a foster parent that has a Guatemalan teenager with a baby that's here on temporary status. My wife's friend was going on and on about how something needed to be done about illegals in the country and she supported mass deportations.

The problem with debating this issue with her was, when presented with any evidence that contradicted her viewpoint, she would spin in the best possible light and if she couldn't she would say you can't trust anything in print media so if there isn't a video of Trump saying something then it just can't be trusted. So Trump's Time interview where he stated he supported using the military to deport migrants couldn't be trusted.

I dug up the recent Trump interview here he stated that he supported revoking temporary status to deport Haitians. My wife pointed out that, while her foster child isn't Haitian, she is under the same status as Haitians, and therefore at risk for deportation under a Trump administration. She tried to argue semantics, my wife stood her ground, and the she asked what Kamala's immigration policy is, not expecting an answer. My wife pointed out the border bill that republicans shot down to benefit Trump and laid out what it would have done. All things she had just said she would like to see at the border. Her response was a rant about how both sides are bad and since she lives in Washington she probably won't vote because it doesn't matter.

My point is, most GOP supporters will spin absolutely everything Trump does in the best possible way, ignore any proof to the contrary, and spin everything Dems do in the worst possible way. Admittedly, there is some both sides here, but we're talking something like 75/25 or something in that ballpark. GOP media does not cover the bad things and that's the only media most GOP supporters consume. The live in a bubble where everything is spun in a way that shapes their worldview and they filter out anything that goes against what their media is telling them.

The perplexing and infuriating thing with folks like this is how much documentation and validation it takes to convince them of things that appear or seem true by simple observation, yet how easily it is for them to accept the strange conspiracies as fact.

Like the recent jobs report. Republican officeholders discount better than expected job creation and unemployment (even if it isn't accurate, if it is the same methodology that has been consistently used over time, I feel like it it representative, but that is a debate for another day), yet Trump can, off the cuff, say all of those jobs are taken by illegal immigrants and it is immediately accepted as fact.

[Ksyrup]

Or, as I mentioned earlier about my conversation with my SIL, the crime rate.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The perplexing and infuriating thing with folks like this is how much documentation and validation it takes to convince them of things that appear or seem true by simple observation, yet how easily it is for them to accept the strange conspiracies as fact.

Like the recent jobs report. Republican officeholders discount better than expected job creation and unemployment (even if it isn't accurate, if it is the same methodology that has been consistently used over time, I feel like it it representative, but that is a debate for another day), yet Trump can, off the cuff, say all of those jobs are taken by illegal immigrants and it is immediately accepted as fact.

You also can't get many of them to accept that the declines in native-born workers is due to age and retirement and not a plot to steal all the jobs.

[JPhillips]

He just gets more and more comfortable spewing this garbage.

JUST NOW:
@realDonaldTrump
leans heavily into race science by telling
@hughhewitt
that you can tell whether migrants are predisposed to committing murder by "their genes."

"We got a lot of bad genes in our country right now," he adds.

[Atocep]

MTG said global warming and rising carbon levels are a good thing because carbon supports life and because of the rising carbon levels the earth is greener now than it has been.

[SirFozzie]

Trump takes up a lot of the oxygen in the GOP are (Crazy/Fascist/Evil) discussion, but let's not forget there's a whole ecosystem of would-be quiet fascists out there at the state level.

Texas raiding and arresting people for voting drives

Utah trying to arrest people putting up Little Free Libraries for putting up "obscene" material.

Florida threatening a TV station for airing an abortion rights commercial.

And before you think I'm making any of this up: here's the proof

Utah: MSN

Texas Texas authorities raided the homes of Latino campaign volunteers | AP News

Florida: MSN

[GrantDawg]

FREE SPEECH!!!.....wait, not that speech.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

Either someone is going to make a lot of money on Polymarket with a Trump pump and dump or there's a person willing to spend a lot of money just to make Trup's numbers go up on that site.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Either someone is going to make a lot of money on Polymarket with a Trump pump and dump or there's a person willing to spend a lot of money just to make Trup's numbers go up on that site.

It is my understanding the Peter Thiel is involved in that site so I wouldn't trust anything from them

[GrantDawg]

I'm pretty shocked by these numbers. I haven't listen to this podcast much. I listened to the first few episodes then listen when the break-up scandal happened. I would have thought this was a pod aimed at men, with the girls bragging about their oral sex prowess and being pretty "pick me." Maybe there was a sea change later in the podcast, but I really didn't expect that demo.

For those asking why Harris went on Call Her Daddy, NPR obtained audience data on the show from Edison Research:

- 70% women
- 76% under 35 (93% under 45)
- 48% Democrat / 24% Republican / 20% Independent
- 34% live in the south / 24% west / 22% northeast / 20% midwest https://t.co/OaoIZyrDo1

— Elena Moore (@ElenaMMoore) October 7, 2024

[albionmoonlight]

DeSantis has been ducking phone calls from the president and vice president and refused to do a joint event with the president. At some point, MAGA decided that they hated Democrats more than hurricanes. One of the most toxic things they have done is make *everything* political. People can’t just live their lives without it having to fit into some red/blue mold.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm pretty shocked by these numbers. I haven't listen to this podcast much. I listened to the first few episodes then listen when the break-up scandal happened. I would have thought this was a pod aimed at men, with the girls bragging about their oral sex prowess and being pretty "pick me." Maybe there was a sea change later in the podcast, but I really didn't expect that demo.

Glad she is doing these interviews.

But I'm not buying these incentives for housing, child tax credits etc. will fix the challenge of young adults getting married, having kids etc. Basically, the trend is US women want to have careers, they want to make their own money, they don't want kids etc.

Has there been any other western-like countries, where women are free to pursue their dreams, and monetary incentives have reversed their declining population?

Legal immigration will help quite a bit but obviously Kamala can't use that argument right now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

DeSantis has been ducking phone calls from the president and vice president and refused to do a joint event with the president. At some point, MAGA decided that they hated Democrats more than hurricanes. One of the most toxic things they have done is make *everything* political. People can’t just live their lives without it having to fit into some red/blue mold.

and when they don't get the help they need because of this every politician on the right will be yelling about Harris abandoning them.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Glad she is doing these interviews.

But I'm not buying these incentives for housing, child tax credits etc. will fix the challenge of young adults getting married, having kids etc. Basically, the trend is US women want to have careers, they want to make their own money, they don't want kids etc.

I understand the career thing, but there us still a huge swath of the population that would help, including those career seekers, who might otherwise live with their parents for years. The size of the average American family has been trending down for 60 years and the size has been consistent since 2001. Not sure it will drop much lower.

[GrantDawg]

I can tell you, at least from my daughter stand point, she hasn't had a child because of money and nothing to do with her career. She is in the same boat with lots of her peers. Works hard, makes decent money, but is still not enough to afford to buy a home. $25k in down payment assistance would be huge to them.

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[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

DeSantis has been ducking phone calls from the president and vice president and refused to do a joint event with the president. At some point, MAGA decided that they hated Democrats more than hurricanes. One of the most toxic things they have done is make *everything* political. People can’t just live their lives without it having to fit into some red/blue mold.

He's putting all his efforts into trying to figure out how Biden is steering another hurricane towards his state in an election year.



If Pat Robertson was still alive maybe we could get another one of those, "this is punishment for the sins of the people" moments about Florida?

[GrantDawg]

They have talked now, and Biden told him anything he needed to call him directly. Because that is what a true leader does.

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[kingfc22]

Too bad Trump isn’t President. He could just send a nuke at it.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Too bad Trump isn’t President. He could just send a nuke at it.

Or redirect it with a sharpie.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Or redirect it with a sharpie.

A great example of the right wing news bubble. The WVU boards lean as hard to the right as you can imagine and someone, jokingly, brought that up a few months ago the right wingers there didn't get the reference or know what he was talking about. One guy apparently googled it and said it was a weird and obscure reference that shows TDS.

[Lathum]

Harris will be interviewed tomorrow by Howard Stern

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Glad she is doing these interviews.

But I'm not buying these incentives for housing, child tax credits etc. will fix the challenge of young adults getting married, having kids etc. Basically, the trend is US women want to have careers, they want to make their own money, they don't want kids etc.

Has there been any other western-like countries, where women are free to pursue their dreams, and monetary incentives have reversed their declining population?

Legal immigration will help quite a bit but obviously Kamala can't use that argument right now.

You don't believe them when they say it is because it is too damn expensive or you don't believe these proposals would make it less damn expensive? Also, I assure you that the percentage of the Gen Zs and millennials who don't want to have kids because it's too expensive include men as well as women.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

You don't believe them when they say it is because it is too damn expensive or you don't believe these proposals would make it less damn expensive?

I believe 1 and 2 are true but specifically for increasing birth rates, I don't believe reducing costs will solve the problem.

Kamala proposed (1) increasing housing supply to reduce house prices (2) help with a $25k down for first time home buyers (3) tax cuts of $6k for first year of child's life.

What I posit is none of the 3 will increase birth rates to offset the decline. The reason for not having children is not "primarily" due to financial constraints, there are other factors at play.

I suspect #1 and #2 are the key reasons. Affordability is #4.

Experiences of Adults Without Kids in the US | Pew Research Center



And I asked the below question. I honestly don't know for sure but things I've read about Europe, Japan, Korea indicates no.

Has there been any other western-like countries, where women are free to pursue their dreams, and monetary incentives have reversed their declining population?