Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible** - Page 95

molson · 12-16-2013, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I have nothing to add here, except to say that Alberto has balls. He got into the ring with Cro Cop, and if that didn't knock the snarky out of him IRL, then I'm not sure what would do it.

He did also beat a bunch of guys in MMA, including one guy who has a knockout in the UFC. Of course, that guy then did go on to lose 11 consecutive fights between 1999-2012, but you know, it's something.

molson · 12-20-2013, 10:14 PM

Completely random wrestling history tidbit I heard about today that really shows how different things were back in the day. 50 years ago, Bearcat Wright was this really popular wrestler, but promoters were afraid to put him in title matches because he was a bit of a loose cannon, and had some kind of boxing background, and there was always the concern he'd go against script and just beat up the champion and win the title. But the world champion in this California promotion that Wright worked for at the time was Fred Blassie, and Blassie assured the promoters that he was friends with Wright and Wright would do the right thing. The big show comes, and Wright beat the crap out of Blassie and won the match and the title, going against script. The next night (which was 50 years ago today), Wright was supposed to defend the title against Blassie in another town. But, the promoters did what they always did back then when situations like this arose, they waited until Wright was in the ring and then sent out "Judo" Gene Labelle under a mask to take care of business. (Labelle still trains guys to this day, and is a part of Ronda Rousey's fight entourage, and Daniel Bryan's finisher used to be named after him). Wright saw Labelle and ran from the ring with his belt, and never wrestled in that promotion again. He was backballed from the NWA. There was so much shit like that that went down in old timey wrestling, it would probably would make a good movie.

Maybe if that element was still in pro wrestling today, Del Rio could be a player.

Mota · 12-21-2013, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Completely random wrestling history tidbit I heard about today that really shows how different things were back in the day. 50 years ago, Bearcat Wright was this really popular wrestler, but promoters were afraid to put him in title matches because he was a bit of a loose cannon, and had some kind of boxing background, and there was always the concern he'd go against script and just beat up the champion and win the title. But the world champion in this California promotion that Wright worked for at the time was Fred Blassie, and Blassie assured the promoters that he was friends with Wright and Wright would do the right thing. The big show comes, and Wright beat the crap out of Blassie and won the match and the title, going against script. The next night (which was 50 years ago today), Wright was supposed to defend the title against Blassie in another town. But, the promoters did what they always did back then when situations like this arose, they waited until Wright was in the ring and then sent out "Judo" Gene Labelle under a mask to take care of business. (Labelle still trains guys to this day, and is a part of Ronda Rousey's fight entourage, and Daniel Bryan's finisher used to be named after him). Wright saw Labelle and ran from the ring with his belt, and never wrestled in that promotion again. He was backballed from the NWA. There was so much shit like that that went down in old timey wrestling, it would probably would make a good movie.

Maybe if that element was still in pro wrestling today, Del Rio could be a player.

Haha good story Molson! I guess in the days of the territories if you did end up doing something stupid and getting kicked out, there were dozens of other territories that would take you in no problem.

My own personal memories from International Wrestling (Montreal based promotion), we had guys like Abdullah the Butcher, Bruiser Brody, the Road Warriors, etc to tour along with the regulars (Rick Martel, Rougeau Brothers, Dino Bravo, etc). Guys like Abdullah would be regulars in the territory for several months and then would go away (and come back fresh 6-12 months later), and you'd get the Road Warriors who would just be there for a few shows. I don't recall any shooting in our city though.

In the 90's the guy they used was Haku or Meng, he was the tough guy that no one wanted to mess with and would teach the wrestlers a lesson if they asked him to.

General Mike · 12-30-2013, 09:22 PM

Brock Lesnar. Great Man.

molson · 01-08-2014, 08:49 PM

WWE just announced the launch of the WWE Network. It's online-only, with a 24/7 stream of scheduled programming and on-demand stuff. Every PPV will air on it, including Wrestlemania. At launch, the on-demand portion will include every WWE, WCW, and ECW PPV ever, and previous RAW and Nitro shows (it wasn't clear to me if it was every one.) Also, NXT, Superstars, reality shows like legends house (which was taped something like 4 years ago, it's pretty shocking that nobody from the cast has died yet), and some behind-the-scenes pre- and and post-show stuff, and I'm sure a ton of old stuff from their library. Available on any device.

For $9.99/month. Which is really an incredible deal. It's interesting to see both UFC and WWE come out this kind of product so close to each other, it's probably a great move for both, but you have to wonder about putting Mania on there from a business perspective - that generates about $70 million in PPV revenue a year, though about half of that goes to the providers. Also, this will really test the "if this shit was cheaper I wouldn't pirate it" theory.

RainMaker · 01-08-2014, 09:39 PM

I think it's a great idea if I can access it off of Roku, Xbox, PS4, or other devices like that. Basically I want it on my TV and not my computer or tablet.

It'll come down to the on-demand stuff in my opinion. If I can access a huge database of previous events, I'd be interested. If they are going to be stingy with the library, I'll pass.

I do like the idea of online-only channels though.

Terps · 01-08-2014, 10:58 PM

Well, as someone who would stream PPV events, they just made $10 a month off of me.

dubb93 · 01-08-2014, 11:45 PM

If I can put it on my PS4 with an app and get it in HD, I'll pay $10 a month for that. I don't even watch wrestling anymore, but for the on-demand library(I really hope they don't fuck with crap like cutting out Benoit and shit like that) I would definitely watch this. If I could watch, say, watch Raw from the beginning, I would do that. Old content has value to me in a system like this.

dfisher · 01-09-2014, 08:13 AM

Every PPV ever has me sold right there, and I don't even watch much of the current product. As for Benoit, the news sites are saying there was an internal memo saying that he would be included on the WWE Network, only with a disclaimer before the program aired. Now the question is which one to watch first.

I'm also hoping that they start having regular shows of the old territories. Saturday night should be NWA World Championship Wrestling. Every week have some old Mid-South, WCCW, AWA, Florida Championship Wrestling, etc. This will be awesome.

Suicane75 · 01-09-2014, 08:41 AM

This is huge for them in both ways. It really sets them up to be very successful on a completely new platform the way few companies have been so far. But if this fails, and they have to go back to the ppv model, how many customers will they not get back? They also have to get this right, right out of the box. Wrestlemania going down, or being a hassle watch, is going to be a disaster.

From a consumer standpoint it looks like a no brainer, $10 a month is insanely cheap if it was just first run shows and ppv's. It'll be interesting to see how much of the old library is made available, especially the territories and classic WWF stuff.

I would expect the price to rise gradually if it's an initial success but the start point is so low that I can see them keeping a majority of their subscribers even if the cost goes up $5 a year.

DaddyTorgo · 01-09-2014, 09:02 AM

If there was actually legit old non-WWF content on there I'd be happy and might even find my way into being suckered into paying for it.

To be able to watch old Monday Night Wars or hell, even old early-WCW or NWA territories shows would be frigging amazing.

digamma · 01-09-2014, 09:32 AM

I thought the book The Squared Circle was entertaining though it is in need of a better editor. It is a collection of past pieces, each well done, but some of the history overlaps and a little editing would have made it a very smooth read. Overall though, still a solid read for past or present wrestling fans.

BYU 14 · 01-09-2014, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

If there was actually legit old non-WWF content on there I'd be happy and might even find my way into being suckered into paying for it.

To be able to watch old Monday Night Wars or hell, even old early-WCW or NWA territories shows would be frigging amazing.

Watching Georgia Championship Wrestling again would never get old!

PilotMan · 01-09-2014, 10:17 AM

It's going to be available for Roku as will UFC fightpass. I may have to take the plunge on it. The PPV stuff is a huge sales point.

dubb93 · 01-09-2014, 12:21 PM

I put "WWE Network PS4" into Google and tons of sites seem to be reporting the app will be available for the 360/PS3/PS4 at launch and XBox One sometime during the Summer. I don't understand why the XBox One app would be delayed. It's still early, if it's coming to the rest at launch I don't understand why that one wouldn't be there too.

molson · 01-09-2014, 12:40 PM

A couple of other things I heard listening to Meltzer-

-All home video DVD releases will be on there (though they weren't sure if that goes all the way back to the Coliseum home videos). That's pretty big, there's a ton of really good WWE-produced documentaries on individual wrestlers and territories.
-While every WWE/WCW/ECW ppv ever will be there at launch, the old Nitro/Raws and older non-WWE stuff will come out more gradually. They will keep adding stuff over time.
-You have to make a 6-month commitment.
-They are pretty sure Wrestlemania will not be on the network next year. Which is pretty risky, it's going to be tough to generate the usual million buys at $65 when people have gotten used to getting all this stuff for $10/month. Maybe on the upside, next year's mania will have to be incredibly loaded.
-I keep hearing that they need a million subscribers to break even on this, but I don't really get that. They own all the content, and they're producing this stuff anyway (with the exception of the cheap reality shows). Will the tech/bandwith/operation side of this really cost them $10 million/month?

This really does blow away UFC Fight pass. Meltzer speculated that UFC isn't ready to give up on PPV yet because they generate more PPV money than the WWE does. That's true, but it's not really by that much. As least for the bigger shows. WWE's B-show PPV buyrates are a lot lower than UFC's weaker shows, so it makes sense to give those up to the network. And the original plan was to just have those non-big 4 ppvs on the network, but at some point they decided they needed to make a bigger splash.

SirFozzie · 01-09-2014, 12:48 PM

molson: They think they'll be losing a major chunk of their PPV buyrates to this, so they need to have a lot of little prices ($10 a month) to make up for the folks who will no longer be spending $30/40 a month for the PPV)

molson · 01-09-2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

molson: They think they'll be losing a major chunk of their PPV buyrates to this, so they need to have a lot of little prices ($10 a month) to make up for the folks who will no longer be spending $30/40 a month for the PPV)

Ah, that makes sense.

DaddyTorgo · 01-09-2014, 01:09 PM

ECW...ECW...ECW!!!!!

So I can watch actual Dudley Boyz instead of WWE-neutered Dudleys? I can watch Sabu? And Sandman? And fuckin New Jack?!?!?! Fuckin...blazing RVD!?!!?!?

HELLZ TO THE YEAH!!!!

BishopMVP · 01-09-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

molson: They think they'll be losing a major chunk of their PPV buyrates to this, so they need to have a lot of little prices ($10 a month) to make up for the folks who will no longer be spending $30/40 a month for the PPV)

I saw someone elsewhere make a decent point. They may not be losing as much on PPV's as you would think, because most people get together in groups to watch those. If a group of 10 friends get together to watch Wrestlemania, you only need 3-4 of them to pay the $10/month to break even.

I don't think it would have been the worst idea if they had exempted the Big 4 PPV's (or really big 3 - WM, SummerSlam and Royal Rumble - in my mind.) Never underestimate the stupidity of the writers room, but I'd guess a decent part of the problem with them burning through storylines is having a PPV every month during parts of the year. Make your Hell In a Cell's and Elimination Chamber's slightly better/more important Raws, but stop trying to have a different shocking ending or something important in each storyline happen at each one.

SirFozzie · 01-09-2014, 03:02 PM

Here's the buyrates for the first nine months of 2013: (per the WON)

Royal Rumble (1/27): 579,000 worldwide (364,000 domestic)
Elimination Chamber (2/17): 241,000 worldwide (181,000 domestic)
Wrestlemania 29 (4/1): 1,104,000 worldwide (662,000 domestic)
Extreme Rules (5/19): 245,000 worldwide (137,000 domestic)
Payback (6/16): 198,000 worldwide (108,000 domestic)
Money in the Bank (7/14): 199,000 worldwide (151,000 domestic)
Summerslam (8/18): 296,000 worldwide (185,000 domestic)
Night of Champions (9/15): 175,000 worldwide (92,000 domestic)

Let's say, after the cable company cut, they get $20 per $40 PPV (everything but WM) and $40 for Wrestlemania.

2.24 Million buys for non WM PPV=44.8 Million
1.1 Million buys for WM= 44 Million.
Add another 600K buys for October, November, December PPV not listed here.. roughly 12 million

That's $100,000,000 a year that's at risk under this plan

dubb93 · 01-09-2014, 03:11 PM

I could be over generalizing a bit here, but I would venture a guess that half the people who buy wrestling PPV's probably aren't big VOD streamers. I guess they retain atleast half of their PPV numbers.

jbergey22 · 01-09-2014, 03:25 PM

I think this will improve their bottom line largely over time. It should bring more interest back to the TV shows in addition to the numerous other people that will now pay 120/per year where they would have paid $0-$60. Short term in may cost them a bit of profit but over the long run I believe this will be one of the smartest things they have ever done.

People that knew they werent going to pay $50 for the PPVs likely stopped caring about seeing the RAW's/Smackdowns each week. In my opinion this will bring interest back to them shows.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

People that knew they werent going to pay $50 for the PPVs likely stopped caring about seeing the RAW's/Smackdowns each week.

Wouldn't ratings vs buyrates indicate just the opposite?

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 03:37 PM

This blogger does a pretty good job of explaining why I think this will ultimately join the XFL in the list of major VKM flops.

Scribblings: Why The WWE Network Is Much Ado About Nothing

jbergey22 · 01-09-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wouldn't ratings vs buyrates indicate just the opposite?

Huh? Buy rates and ratings have both been down for some time, havent they?

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Huh? Buy rates and ratings have both been down for some time, havent they?

Huh back ... 'cause maybe I misunderstood what you were saying when I replied.

Both buy rates & ratings are down from the past (much less from the peak) but the ratings are still considerably higher than the PPV buyers.

you said

Quote:

People that knew they werent going to pay $50 for the PPVs likely stopped caring about seeing the RAW's/Smackdowns each week

What I was trying to say was that people who don't buy the PPV's still make up the vast majority of the Raw/Smackdown audiences.

jbergey22 · 01-09-2014, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Huh back ... 'cause maybe I misunderstood what you were saying when I replied.

Both buy rates & ratings are down from the past (much less from the peak) but the ratings are still considerably higher than the PPV buyers.

you said

What I was trying to say was that people who don't buy the PPV's still make up the vast majority of the Raw/Smackdown audiences.

Ok sorry!

I was just saying that perhaps they are doing this to try and help spark more interest in their TV product which have seen its ratings dropping steadily over 10 years. IMO its at a price point where people might actually pay the $9.99/month making it a good thing.

bulletsponge · 01-09-2014, 03:58 PM

if this does work, one of the benifite might be fewer PPV events. theres already way too many, if they become free to subscribers there will be more incentive to drop a few and that would help the build ups

bulletsponge · 01-09-2014, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This blogger does a pretty good job of explaining why I think this will ultimately join the XFL in the list of major VKM flops.

Scribblings: Why The WWE Network Is Much Ado About Nothing

hold on... its not on TV! wtf?

DaddyTorgo · 01-09-2014, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This blogger does a pretty good job of explaining why I think this will ultimately join the XFL in the list of major VKM flops.

Scribblings: Why The WWE Network Is Much Ado About Nothing

Would think you'd be in favor of something (even technological) that would let you rewatch old shows from the good ole days.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Would think you'd be in favor of something (even technological) that would let you rewatch old shows from the good ole days.

Didn't say I was against it, just said I think it's ultimately a major flop. It'll do okay at the outset, the novelty will wear off and it'll be largely irrelevant until it eventually quietly shuts down.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hold on... its not on TV! wtf?

LOL, I suspect you won't be the only person to have that reaction.

It's where this grand idea kinda went awry I think.

jbergey22 · 01-09-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hold on... its not on TV! wtf?

It will end up being like Netflix where smart TVs will have the app predownloaded or downloadable. I am sure they were working on this part of it now and negotiating this.

DaddyTorgo · 01-09-2014, 04:14 PM

Maybe (just maybe) VKM has thought this through and is looking to launch this with a splash, get a lot of subscribers, and THEN go to the cable companies and say "THESE ARE THE EYEBALLS I CAN BRING...I DEMAND A HIGHER CARRYING CHARGE!!" (is that what it's called? you know what i mean anyways)

Maybe he's playing 11th dimensional chess while you are thinking he's playing in 3 dimensions.

I wouldn't put it past WWE.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I wouldn't put it past them.

Vinny's track record with grand schemes, well, it ain't so great really.

The real problem here however is critical mass: there's exactly zero reason to believe that significantly more people will be more willing to buy this product as it stands now versus those who were willing to pay for his.

And the core of the wrestling audience is either too old to be acutely device-centric OR too young to have the control of the revenue to pay for access on said device.

Rather than a highly evolved idea, this looks a lot more like "we've spent a metric shit ton of cash on this already, we have to roll out SOMETHING !"

jbergey22 · 01-09-2014, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Vinny's track record with grand schemes, well, it ain't so great really.

The real problem here however is critical mass: there's exactly zero reason to believe that significantly more people will be more willing to buy this product as it stands now versus those who were willing to pay for his.

And the core of the wrestling audience is either too old to be acutely device-centric OR too young to have the control of the revenue to pay for access on said device.

Rather than a highly evolved idea, this looks a lot more like "we've spent a metric shit ton of cash on this already, we have to roll out SOMETHING !"

You make some good points here. Their selling points are pretty messed up. I would think the 18-35 year olds would their prime target audience but most of them arent going to care about Georgia Wrestling and some of them other shows they package as part of this.

You are probably right in that this will need to be a big hit with the 18-35 year olds or it will fail miserably. I cant see too many 50+ year olds thinking this is something they need.

molson · 01-09-2014, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hold on... its not on TV! wtf?

They originally wanted it to be a traditional TV premium network, but they couldn't find any providers to carry it. So it evolved into this, and got delayed for a few years. IMO, they dodged a huge bullet. Increasing your reliance on PPV and cable providers in 2014 seems like a bad idea. And the numbers I heard in terms of how many subscribers to a premium cable TV network they needed to break even was ridiculous, it was in the several millions. Here though, they own the content, the distribution, and have total control. Isn't that where things are going? People, especially younger people, are ditching the $100/month cable setup and building their own a la cart entertainment package in $10/month increments through Netflix, Hulu Plus, MLB.TV, etc. And wrestling is perfect for that kind of model because it's something you can just jump in on and watch a match or a clip whenever you want. To me, this is something they kind of had to do, the only question is was the details, what they put on it, how much it costs, etc. The traditional TV network felt like a Vince idea (maybe something he's wanted since 1990), this setup feels like something that hired outside brains developed.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-09-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You are probably right in that this will need to be a big hit with the 18-35 year olds or it will fail miserably. I cant see too many 50+ year olds thinking this is something they need.

Current median TV viewer of Raw is 38-40 (I've seen both numbers used). For TNA it's even older than that (relevant, perhaps, because it's more of a WCW-light alternative).

As for the unwired access points, worth considering that women are the heaviest users of online video (accounting for about 2/3rds of all hours watched on Netflix/Hulu). This, however, is a male-dominated niche (obviously).

RainMaker · 01-09-2014, 05:19 PM

I actually think it's a great idea. They don't have the pull to be on TV, and it was a pipedream to ever think they'd make it onto basic cable packages like the NFL Network has. Becoming an online-app network allows them more flexibility with their content as well. I think we're entering a point where most people will have either a device that can get the app, or will in the near future.

As someone mentioned earlier, this is a wrestling version of Netflix. They have a vast library of content you can go through, they'll throw in some original programming that will likely be incredibly cheap to produce. And to top it off they'll do the PPV stuff, which was already seeing declining numbers.

I guess I don't see what the risk is for WWE here. It seems like a great way to convert a dying model (PPV) and convert it into a more modern business model.

RainMaker · 01-09-2014, 05:22 PM

My only gripe is the 6-month commitment thing. I'd rather they do something along the lines of "after 6 months as a member, you get Wrestlemania and Summerslam for free". People hate contracts.

molson · 01-09-2014, 07:18 PM

I find it hilarious when the absurdity of wrestling permeates into real life. This is on the front page of ESPN for some reason.

Ric Flair won't attend game between San Francisco 49ers and Carolina Panthers - ESPN

If this was just some actor, it would only be on TMZ if anywhere. For some reason when it's a wrestler though, people start to act like they're in a wrestling storyline. I think Flair should be in a neutral part of the stadium and then turn on one of the teams costing them the game

Atocep · 01-09-2014, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I find it hilarious when the absurdity of wrestling permeates into real life. This is on the front page of ESPN for some reason.

Ric Flair won't attend game between San Francisco 49ers and Carolina Panthers - ESPN

If this was just some actor, it would only be on TMZ if anywhere. For some reason when it's a wrestler though, people start to act like they're in a wrestling storyline. I think Flair should be in a neutral part of the stadium and then turn on one of the teams costing them the game

The perfect opportunity for the NFL to debut a special guest referee.

RainMaker · 01-09-2014, 11:44 PM

DirecTV is already throwing a tantrum.

DirecTV may sever ties with WWE over new online network - latimes.com

INDalltheway · 01-10-2014, 11:44 AM

Doesn't this pave the way for Raw, Smackdown, etc to move to the WWE network somewhere down the road? I love the whole idea behind this as a wrestling fan. I feel like it is also a step towards an a la carte style of programming that many people would like to see.

molson · 01-10-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

Doesn't this pave the way for Raw, Smackdown, etc to move to the WWE network somewhere down the road? I love the whole idea behind this as a wrestling fan. I feel like it is also a step towards an a la carte style of programming that many people would like to see.

It certainly gives them leverage when negotiating their TV contracts. Which is going to be a big thing really soon. Those contracts are up in the next year or two and the WWE is convinced they're going to get way more money than do currently. All the major sports, including UFC, are tied up in contracts for a while, so the WWE will the only significant "live sport" to bid on, in a time where live TV sports are very hot relative to other programming. It's kind of funny, the WWE spent decades emphasizing how it was entertainment, and not sports, and now, because it makes business sense, they desperately want to be viewed as a sport, at least for TV contract purposes.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-10-2014, 12:06 PM

fwiw, rumors seem to be that what Vince wants from the next negotiations is mainstream network exposure as part of the deal, whether that's NBC or the new FoxSports network. Basically something more than he's got now, not so much money but (for lack of a better word) credibility.

dubb93 · 01-11-2014, 01:26 PM

I'm pretty excited about this. Will be a day one adopter. Last time I gave Vince any money was March 2002. Before that it was April 2000.

Neon_Chaos · 01-14-2014, 10:05 AM

Warrior is the first inductee of the WWE hof class of 2014.

Mota · 01-14-2014, 07:26 PM

Okay I'm pumped about the WWE network. I'm definitely getting it.

And yes I've started watching WWE again. About 2 months off definitely helped, and some of those storylines around September were absolutely brutal.

Unfortunately I live in Canada so I won't be getting the network for a while. Too bad.

12-20-2013, 10:14 PM	#4702
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Completely random wrestling history tidbit I heard about today that really shows how different things were back in the day. 50 years ago, Bearcat Wright was this really popular wrestler, but promoters were afraid to put him in title matches because he was a bit of a loose cannon, and had some kind of boxing background, and there was always the concern he'd go against script and just beat up the champion and win the title. But the world champion in this California promotion that Wright worked for at the time was Fred Blassie, and Blassie assured the promoters that he was friends with Wright and Wright would do the right thing. The big show comes, and Wright beat the crap out of Blassie and won the match and the title, going against script. The next night (which was 50 years ago today), Wright was supposed to defend the title against Blassie in another town. But, the promoters did what they always did back then when situations like this arose, they waited until Wright was in the ring and then sent out "Judo" Gene Labelle under a mask to take care of business. (Labelle still trains guys to this day, and is a part of Ronda Rousey's fight entourage, and Daniel Bryan's finisher used to be named after him). Wright saw Labelle and ran from the ring with his belt, and never wrestled in that promotion again. He was backballed from the NWA. There was so much shit like that that went down in old timey wrestling, it would probably would make a good movie. Maybe if that element was still in pro wrestling today, Del Rio could be a player. Last edited by molson : 12-20-2013 at 10:16 PM.

12-30-2013, 09:22 PM	#4704
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	Brock Lesnar. Great Man. __________________ Boise Stampede Continental Football League Jacksonville Jaguars GM North American Football League Nebraska Coach FOFC-BBCF Rutgers & Washington coach Bowl Bound-BBCF

01-08-2014, 08:49 PM	#4705
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	WWE just announced the launch of the WWE Network. It's online-only, with a 24/7 stream of scheduled programming and on-demand stuff. Every PPV will air on it, including Wrestlemania. At launch, the on-demand portion will include every WWE, WCW, and ECW PPV ever, and previous RAW and Nitro shows (it wasn't clear to me if it was every one.) Also, NXT, Superstars, reality shows like legends house (which was taped something like 4 years ago, it's pretty shocking that nobody from the cast has died yet), and some behind-the-scenes pre- and and post-show stuff, and I'm sure a ton of old stuff from their library. Available on any device. For $9.99/month. Which is really an incredible deal. It's interesting to see both UFC and WWE come out this kind of product so close to each other, it's probably a great move for both, but you have to wonder about putting Mania on there from a business perspective - that generates about $70 million in PPV revenue a year, though about half of that goes to the providers. Also, this will really test the "if this shit was cheaper I wouldn't pirate it" theory. Last edited by molson : 01-08-2014 at 08:53 PM.

01-09-2014, 10:17 AM	#4714
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	It's going to be available for Roku as will UFC fightpass. I may have to take the plunge on it. The PPV stuff is a huge sales point. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

01-09-2014, 12:40 PM	#4716
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	A couple of other things I heard listening to Meltzer- -All home video DVD releases will be on there (though they weren't sure if that goes all the way back to the Coliseum home videos). That's pretty big, there's a ton of really good WWE-produced documentaries on individual wrestlers and territories. -While every WWE/WCW/ECW ppv ever will be there at launch, the old Nitro/Raws and older non-WWE stuff will come out more gradually. They will keep adding stuff over time. -You have to make a 6-month commitment. -They are pretty sure Wrestlemania will not be on the network next year. Which is pretty risky, it's going to be tough to generate the usual million buys at $65 when people have gotten used to getting all this stuff for $10/month. Maybe on the upside, next year's mania will have to be incredibly loaded. -I keep hearing that they need a million subscribers to break even on this, but I don't really get that. They own all the content, and they're producing this stuff anyway (with the exception of the cheap reality shows). Will the tech/bandwith/operation side of this really cost them $10 million/month? This really does blow away UFC Fight pass. Meltzer speculated that UFC isn't ready to give up on PPV yet because they generate more PPV money than the WWE does. That's true, but it's not really by that much. As least for the bigger shows. WWE's B-show PPV buyrates are a lot lower than UFC's weaker shows, so it makes sense to give those up to the network. And the original plan was to just have those non-big 4 ppvs on the network, but at some point they decided they needed to make a bigger splash. Last edited by molson : 01-09-2014 at 12:54 PM.

01-08-2014, 09:39 PM	#4706
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I think it's a great idea if I can access it off of Roku, Xbox, PS4, or other devices like that. Basically I want it on my TV and not my computer or tablet. It'll come down to the on-demand stuff in my opinion. If I can access a huge database of previous events, I'd be interested. If they are going to be stingy with the library, I'll pass. I do like the idea of online-only channels though.

01-08-2014, 10:58 PM	#4707
Terps College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001	Well, as someone who would stream PPV events, they just made $10 a month off of me.

01-09-2014, 08:13 AM	#4709
dfisher High School JV Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Hatboro, PA	Every PPV ever has me sold right there, and I don't even watch much of the current product. As for Benoit, the news sites are saying there was an internal memo saying that he would be included on the WWE Network, only with a disclaimer before the program aired. Now the question is which one to watch first. I'm also hoping that they start having regular shows of the old territories. Saturday night should be NWA World Championship Wrestling. Every week have some old Mid-South, WCCW, AWA, Florida Championship Wrestling, etc. This will be awesome.

01-09-2014, 08:41 AM	#4710
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	This is huge for them in both ways. It really sets them up to be very successful on a completely new platform the way few companies have been so far. But if this fails, and they have to go back to the ppv model, how many customers will they not get back? They also have to get this right, right out of the box. Wrestlemania going down, or being a hassle watch, is going to be a disaster. From a consumer standpoint it looks like a no brainer, $10 a month is insanely cheap if it was just first run shows and ppv's. It'll be interesting to see how much of the old library is made available, especially the territories and classic WWF stuff. I would expect the price to rise gradually if it's an initial success but the start point is so low that I can see them keeping a majority of their subscribers even if the cost goes up $5 a year.

01-09-2014, 09:02 AM	#4711
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	If there was actually legit old non-WWF content on there I'd be happy and might even find my way into being suckered into paying for it. To be able to watch old Monday Night Wars or hell, even old early-WCW or NWA territories shows would be frigging amazing.

01-09-2014, 09:32 AM	#4712
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	I thought the book The Squared Circle was entertaining though it is in need of a better editor. It is a collection of past pieces, each well done, but some of the history overlaps and a little editing would have made it a very smooth read. Overall though, still a solid read for past or present wrestling fans.

01-09-2014, 12:48 PM	#4717
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	molson: They think they'll be losing a major chunk of their PPV buyrates to this, so they need to have a lot of little prices ($10 a month) to make up for the folks who will no longer be spending $30/40 a month for the PPV) __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

01-09-2014, 01:09 PM	#4719
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	ECW...ECW...ECW!!!!! So I can watch actual Dudley Boyz instead of WWE-neutered Dudleys? I can watch Sabu? And Sandman? And fuckin New Jack?!?!?! Fuckin...blazing RVD!?!!?!? HELLZ TO THE YEAH!!!! Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 01-09-2014 at 01:10 PM.

01-09-2014, 03:02 PM	#4721
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Here's the buyrates for the first nine months of 2013: (per the WON) Royal Rumble (1/27): 579,000 worldwide (364,000 domestic) Elimination Chamber (2/17): 241,000 worldwide (181,000 domestic) Wrestlemania 29 (4/1): 1,104,000 worldwide (662,000 domestic) Extreme Rules (5/19): 245,000 worldwide (137,000 domestic) Payback (6/16): 198,000 worldwide (108,000 domestic) Money in the Bank (7/14): 199,000 worldwide (151,000 domestic) Summerslam (8/18): 296,000 worldwide (185,000 domestic) Night of Champions (9/15): 175,000 worldwide (92,000 domestic) Let's say, after the cable company cut, they get $20 per $40 PPV (everything but WM) and $40 for Wrestlemania. 2.24 Million buys for non WM PPV=44.8 Million 1.1 Million buys for WM= 44 Million. Add another 600K buys for October, November, December PPV not listed here.. roughly 12 million That's $100,000,000 a year that's at risk under this plan __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

01-09-2014, 03:25 PM	#4723
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	I think this will improve their bottom line largely over time. It should bring more interest back to the TV shows in addition to the numerous other people that will now pay 120/per year where they would have paid $0-$60. Short term in may cost them a bit of profit but over the long run I believe this will be one of the smartest things they have ever done. People that knew they werent going to pay $50 for the PPVs likely stopped caring about seeing the RAW's/Smackdowns each week. In my opinion this will bring interest back to them shows.

01-09-2014, 03:37 PM	#4725
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	This blogger does a pretty good job of explaining why I think this will ultimately join the XFL in the list of major VKM flops. Scribblings: Why The WWE Network Is Much Ado About Nothing __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

01-09-2014, 03:58 PM	#4729
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	if this does work, one of the benifite might be fewer PPV events. theres already way too many, if they become free to subscribers there will be more incentive to drop a few and that would help the build ups __________________ the Barbarian, WW Royal Rumble Champion

01-09-2014, 04:14 PM	#4735
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Maybe (just maybe) VKM has thought this through and is looking to launch this with a splash, get a lot of subscribers, and THEN go to the cable companies and say "THESE ARE THE EYEBALLS I CAN BRING...I DEMAND A HIGHER CARRYING CHARGE!!" (is that what it's called? you know what i mean anyways) Maybe he's playing 11th dimensional chess while you are thinking he's playing in 3 dimensions. I wouldn't put it past WWE. Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 01-09-2014 at 04:15 PM.

01-09-2014, 05:19 PM	#4740
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I actually think it's a great idea. They don't have the pull to be on TV, and it was a pipedream to ever think they'd make it onto basic cable packages like the NFL Network has. Becoming an online-app network allows them more flexibility with their content as well. I think we're entering a point where most people will have either a device that can get the app, or will in the near future. As someone mentioned earlier, this is a wrestling version of Netflix. They have a vast library of content you can go through, they'll throw in some original programming that will likely be incredibly cheap to produce. And to top it off they'll do the PPV stuff, which was already seeing declining numbers. I guess I don't see what the risk is for WWE here. It seems like a great way to convert a dying model (PPV) and convert it into a more modern business model.

01-09-2014, 05:22 PM	#4741
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	My only gripe is the 6-month commitment thing. I'd rather they do something along the lines of "after 6 months as a member, you get Wrestlemania and Summerslam for free". People hate contracts.

01-09-2014, 07:18 PM	#4742
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I find it hilarious when the absurdity of wrestling permeates into real life. This is on the front page of ESPN for some reason. Ric Flair won't attend game between San Francisco 49ers and Carolina Panthers - ESPN If this was just some actor, it would only be on TMZ if anywhere. For some reason when it's a wrestler though, people start to act like they're in a wrestling storyline. I think Flair should be in a neutral part of the stadium and then turn on one of the teams costing them the game

01-09-2014, 11:44 PM	#4744
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	DirecTV is already throwing a tantrum. DirecTV may sever ties with WWE over new online network - latimes.com

01-10-2014, 11:44 AM	#4745
INDalltheway College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Chicago	Doesn't this pave the way for Raw, Smackdown, etc to move to the WWE network somewhere down the road? I love the whole idea behind this as a wrestling fan. I feel like it is also a step towards an a la carte style of programming that many people would like to see.

01-10-2014, 12:06 PM	#4747
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	fwiw, rumors seem to be that what Vince wants from the next negotiations is mainstream network exposure as part of the deal, whether that's NBC or the new FoxSports network. Basically something more than he's got now, not so much money but (for lack of a better word) credibility. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

01-14-2014, 10:05 AM	#4749
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Warrior is the first inductee of the WWE hof class of 2014. __________________ Come and see.

01-14-2014, 07:26 PM	#4750
Mota College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2001	Okay I'm pumped about the WWE network. I'm definitely getting it. And yes I've started watching WWE again. About 2 months off definitely helped, and some of those storylines around September were absolutely brutal. Unfortunately I live in Canada so I won't be getting the network for a while. Too bad.

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