Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Scarecrow]

Another Wrestler Dies Too Young

[Toddzilla]

Daniel Bryan just can't catch a break.

[RainMaker]

Crowd relentlessly boos the last 90 minutes of the Royal Rumble PPV. Pretty embarrassing night for WWE.

Wyatt/Bryan was an incredible match though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yeah, sounds like the Pittsburgh crowd was the performer of the night.

[RainMaker]

Cena/Orton wasn't even a bad match that they booed and mocked. Just think the 500th time you see it it gets old.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Cena/Orton wasn't even a bad match that they booed and mocked. Just think the 500th time you see it it gets old.

Yeah, the trending hashtag was #rematch

I think it was Tommy Dreamer who said something about how he figured that meant something other than what the WWE would interpret it as

[Neuqua]

What a bummer of an ending. WWE seems to not mind losing money as long as they show the audience they're right. Ugh.

[Toddzilla]

Wow that crowd just shit all over the end of the Rumble. You'd think they'd have the balls to call an audible. Now they're stuck with that old stiff in the ME of Wrestlemania - what a disaster.

[BishopMVP]

Evolution member 1: Champion
Evolution member 2: RR winner
Evolution member 3: featured commentator
DX member 1: also on commentary
DX member 2 & 3: tag champs
Nash: surprise entrant

What did X-Pac do to piss off HHH? I also wonder if they're already editing in the cheers for when they show Batista's win on RAW, or if it'll all be still shots.

[Mota]

They try so hard to push their favorites who aren't over. Booking done by morons who would rather prove us wrong than give us what we want.

[Mota]

Also I hope the plan is for Batista as a heel from here on in since no one will be cheering for him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Looks like Foley ripped creative a new one for tonight
MICK FOLEY GOES DEEPER INTO HIS DISGUST OVER THE ROYAL RUMBLE | PWInsider.com

[SirFozzie]

Believe it or not, Daniel Bryan made the BBC.

BBC - Newsbeat - Royal Rumble: Daniel Bryan blames WWE for exclusion

[PilotMan]

Maybe it's all part of a bigger "war between the people and the WWE?" You know in much the same way that heels bait the crowd and the way you hated Andy Kaufman for insulting you, the WWE is insulting the crowd, and building the attention to an us v. them level.

There is a certain amount of a skinner box at play here. You are conditioned to get the response you seek, but your behavior will be reinforced to an even greater level if your rewards are only intermittent, once you are initially conditioned. It's the primary reason that gambling does what it does, and why slot machines are so popular.

You can't tell me that in all the infinite wisdom of the WWE that they aren't thinking this somewhere. We are just monkeys in a box and the WWE is just meriting out our rewards.

Here if they piss off enough people they actually draw some national coverage. Where they have to draw the line though is stopping all rewards and forcing another behavior change that would ultimately hurt them.

[Neon_Chaos]

WWE will have to call an audible, right? Those boos were XPac heat.

[jbergey22]

I havent been paying attention lately but it sounds to me as if WWE is working one heck of an storyline with Bryan coming out as the champion at Wrestlemania. Or maybe I am giving them too much credit.

[Mota]

It might be a story today, but I believe that the WWE did not view him as a top guy even though he was putting the match of the night every show, and was getting the biggest pops.

Based on the things we've seen in the last couple of weeks, it might be a different story today.

But ... how much of this is being done just to placate the fans? The "push" he got this past fall was horrible. It was like they were trying to damage him only the fans refused to let it happen. Are they actually going to push him here, or just another token effort to say they tried, while they actually wanted him to fail the entire time because he's not actually "their guy"?

He is the classic example of the talented guy who is forced to fight and scrape for his spot, while the guy with the big muscles is essentially put into the same spot automatically and it is his to lose.

These are the same guys that watched Tough Enough and thought that Big Andy was the best guy in the bunch and that Austin Aries didn't even deserve to get on the show at all. And they're the same guys that watched NXT Season 1 and thought that Ryback was the standout guy that deserved a monster push. I just don't trust their opinion. But the worst thing is that they keep making the same mistakes over and over again and not learning from it.

Thankfully they are a monopoly and are able to stay alive despite their mistakes. If it was 1998 all over again and they were doing this, they would be in big trouble.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mota

Thankfully they are a monopoly and are able to stay alive despite their mistakes. If it was 1998 all over again and they were doing this, they would be in big trouble.

Why should we be thankful for that? Being a virtual monopoly means they have zero incentive to improve their product.

I'll stand by my belief that BOTH companies were better off during the late 90's when they were creatively pushing each other.

[BishopMVP]

I think the focus being entirely on Daniel Bryan misses the point. Roman Reigns was unbelievable last night, just like he has been for at least the last few months, and if he had won a large majority of the fans would have been cheering and going crazy. Instead it went to someone less athletic, less charismatic, and much less in-shape who wasn't even that popular when he was on the show 5+ years ago. But, he has a movie coming out, so....

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

WWE will have to call an audible, right? Those boos were XPac heat.

Yeah, they have to give him the belt at EC. They can't have Orton/Batista close out WM. Would be an utter disaster. Especially on the new network.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I think the focus being entirely on Daniel Bryan misses the point. Roman Reigns was unbelievable last night, just like he has been for at least the last few months, and if he had won a large majority of the fans would have been cheering and going crazy. Instead it went to someone less athletic, less charismatic, and much less in-shape who wasn't even that popular when he was on the show 5+ years ago. But, he has a movie coming out, so....

I just think fans wanted something new. Orton/Cena for the millionth time. No one has cared about Batista in like 5+ years.

I think that they went into this thinking that Batista would get huge love for his return a la the Rock. They didn't realize no one cares about him anymore. Just out of touch with their fans. They would have been fine with Reigns winning or just about anyone that would provide something different from the same old guys headlining.

[Neuqua]

... And that was one of the worst 3 hour RAWs I've ever seen. Pointless.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I see where Jake Roberts was announced as a Hall of Fame inductee. Not sure how many people (including him) ever thought he'd live (literally) to see the day.

[Front Office Midget]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Why should we be thankful for that? Being a virtual monopoly means they have zero incentive to improve their product.

I'll stand by my belief that BOTH companies were better off during the late 90's when they were creatively pushing each other.

I think he meant, thankfully for them.

[Neon_Chaos]

All this Daniel Bryan hoopla must be a work, right?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

... And that was one of the worst 3 hour RAWs I've ever seen. Pointless.

They tried sooooo hard to own the RR disaster and play it like it's all a work and the crowd ONCE AGAIN shit all over them and it was *glorious*.

When Batista came out and after getting booed out of the building, in the middle of his promo, the crowd hit him with "Daniel Bryan *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*" it just had to be the nail in the Batista comeback coffin.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So with a day out of school my kid is watching what I gather must be the 100 greatest moments of Raw on Netflix.

Y'know, for all the really bad stuff, there's some insanely good stuff too. And that's coming from someone who was always a WCW guy not a WWF guy.

Nobody is better at making moments feel bigger.

[RainMaker]

I think they're setting up a Shield-Wyatt mania match which I'm all for. Shield is due for a face turn in my opinion. Fans love Reigns, and the other guys are just real fun in the ring.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And that's coming from someone who was always a WCW guy not a WWF guy.

Thats gotta be a SE thing, right?
I'm 100% with ya...actually go back a ways before the NWA and UWF "merger" and give me Crockett promotions and NWA and that was all time fave.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Thats gotta be a SE thing, right?
I'm 100% with ya...actually go back a ways before the NWA and UWF "merger" and give me Crockett promotions and NWA and that was all time fave.

Yeah, I think region played a huge role in where you landed during the Monday night wars.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think they're setting up a Shield-Wyatt mania match which I'm all for. Shield is due for a face turn in my opinion. Fans love Reigns, and the other guys are just real fun in the ring.

I think the last RAW is setting up Shield vs. Wyatts for this upcoming PPV. WWE is supposedly super high on Bray Wyatt and are setting up Bray vs Cena at Wrestlemania.

[Terps]

Yeah, I think Wyatt's vs. Shield at Elimination Chamber.

[RainMaker]

I'd take that too I guess. Was hoping for a longer feud though.

I thought I saw a rumor about the Wyatts against Cena/Hogan at Mania?

[molson]

I'm going to assume nobody cares about Smackdown Spoilers, so, the chamber match will be:

Randy Orton
John Cena
Daniel Bryan
Sheamus
Antonio Cesaro
Christian

Meltzer thinks the Foley stuff (and Bryan also spouting off on twitter and in interviews) is a work. Clearly there's a self-awareness of all this, and I think, a strong belief in the fact that him being a real-life underdog makes him even more over. The only question is whether it goes anywhere specific. They have booked the PPV after Mania for Seattle.

I thought the Rumble show was entertaining for all kinds of reasons....but geez, Batista looks like a confused elderly man out there next to a guy like Lesnar, and even Ryback. It was so risky to commit him to a Mania match before even seeing him work a in front of a crowd for the last 4 years. He started getting really good right before he left, but that was a long time ago, and he was never a great worker or anything. Batista/Orton would be really awful. I hope they find some way to audible out of that.

But, this is the most interesting wrestling thing I've read recently:

Jimmy 'Superfly' Snuka girlfriend's death to be investigated by grand jury - mcall.com

If the evidence is still all preserved, and they can overcome the evidentiary hurdles that come with old, and potentially dead witnesses, Snuka could finally be going down. If he lives long enough.

[RainMaker]

I think he's going to win at EC. There is no way they can go through with an Orton-Batista main event.

[molson]

I am going to spoiler this one because it comes from Bryan Alvarez, who does have sources within WWE. It's about WWE's current thought process about a potential Mania match.

Spoiler

CM Punk was not on Raw Monday because WWE is considering changing the planned Mania Punk/Triple H match to Bryan/Triple H. Therefore, they were not sure about whether they should further Punk's feud with the Authority.

Would Bryan making HHH tap out at Mania save all this? He would then presumably challenge for the title at Extreme Rules in Seattle the next month. Edit: By the way, the plan going into the rumble was for Bryan to face Sheamus at Mania. Which doesn't seem good for either guy.

Edit: Also, it looks like Punk is not happy with the whole situation and has told Vince he's going home. He's been pulled from all house shows.....

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I thought I saw a rumor about the Wyatts against Cena/Hogan at Mania?

Hogan's body is in too terrible condition for him to be asked to do much of anything.

[molson]

I touched on this in my spoiler tagged post above but it looks like Punk is gone and at the very least, out of Mania season. I guess things could change any time, but he walked out before RAW, I suppose either because of burnout, or because of the changed Mania booking plans, or a combination of the two. It's the most profitable time of the year for wrestlers, so for him to walk out how is pretty crazy (though apparently he saves his money and lives very frugally). He'd been telling people for a long time that he was going to retire in July when his contract was up, but wrestlers say shit like that all the time (because there's no other companies to leverage against, you can only use retirement at leverage.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

It's the most profitable time of the year for wrestlers, so for him to walk out how is pretty crazy (though apparently he saves his money and lives very frugally).

With the introduction of The Network, it seems that the PPV bonuses are either gone or reduced dramatically. It's being speculated that the reduction plays a part in Punk's timing, basically leaving now really doesn't cost him what it would have in years past.

[RainMaker]

They have two big events in Chicago (Raw after EC and Extreme Rules) coming in the next few months. Will be interesting to see the crowd reaction.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Any chance all of this is a work? CM Punk timing just too close to the rest of this stuff.

[RainMaker]

If you think about it, he has a right to be pissed. Guys work their ass off all year on the road and they hand the top spot to a guy who hasn't been in the company in 5 years who no one really gives a shit about.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If you think about it, he has a right to be pissed. Guys work their ass off all year on the road and they hand the top spot to a guy who hasn't been in the company in 5 years who no one really gives a shit about.

Wasn't the Rock essential skyrocketed towards the top? I know he has the heritage, but still.

[molson]

TMZ's on it!

CM Punk -- QUITTING WWE ... You're Screwing Me Out of WrestleMania Glory | TMZ.com

The only thing that doesn't seem to fit is that Batista winning the Rumble and HHH/Punk at 'Mania had been planned for months. Yet Punk left suddenly before RAW. Did something change?

So he left right around when it was reported that Bryan was taking Punk's spot v. HHH. But was that before or after Punk left? The easier narrative is that he's mad over Batista and HHH, but it would be just as amusing (to me) if Punk is mad that Bryan took his spot, while he was going to get stuck with Kane or somebody. And that scenario makes more sense, it's not like there was any hint that they were building toward another Punk/Orton match at Mania.

[Matthean]

Former WWE star Matt Hardy arrested for alleged hotel brawl with wife - Houston Chronicle

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Former WWE star Matt Hardy arrested for alleged hotel brawl with wife - Houston Chronicle

Horribly sloppy "news" by the Houston paper on this one. They left out the detail that the arrests took place back on January 1st.

Since then the couple has posted all sorts of cutesy lovey dovey pics together (and some racier ones of each other too).

Here's the TMZ article that's being quoted (which does mention the rather obvious reconciliation)

[Comey]

Originally Posted by molson

TMZ's on it!

CM Punk -- QUITTING WWE ... You're Screwing Me Out of WrestleMania Glory | TMZ.com

The only thing that doesn't seem to fit is that Batista winning the Rumble and HHH/Punk at 'Mania had been planned for months. Yet Punk left suddenly before RAW. Did something change?

So he left right around when it was reported that Bryan was taking Punk's spot v. HHH. But was that before or after Punk left? The easier narrative is that he's mad over Batista and HHH, but it would be just as amusing (to me) if Punk is mad that Bryan took his spot, while he was going to get stuck with Kane or somebody. And that scenario makes more sense, it's not like there was any hint that they were building toward another Punk/Orton match at Mania.

Punk isn't mad about Bryan. He's upset about Bautista, because he's taking Bryan's spot. He said it's been Bryan's year, but instead, it's someone who hasn't been there. He says it illustrates how out of touch the WWE is with the fan base (which is true).

The original plan, according to several outlets, was a rematch of Bryan and Sheamus. Perhaps THIS is also a work (which would be supermeta, and would amaze me, because I simply don't think the WWE is capable of following through with this...they continually shot their wad too early when landing on a massive storyline, ie Nexus, CM Punk in '12, etc). I'm kind of amazed that the Bryan storyline has gone on as long as it has...they already shot down the Wyatt storyline, reportedly, because of the Michigan State "YES!" chant.

Anyway, Punk, I'd say, is gone. He's under contract until July, but given the nature of this, and given that he said in an interview that he's been sick since September, and doctors can't figure out what's wrong...oh, hell, I can't figure out anything anymore.

I'd just say Punk's gone, and unfortunately, people like HHH will get to call him a crybaby for not getting to headline Mania.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Punk may have also "lost his smile", with no negative connotation intended by that phrase.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Comey

Punk isn't mad about Bryan. He's upset about Bautista, because he's taking Bryan's spot.

I haven't heard anywhere that Punk/Orton was ever the plan for Mania. Meltzer has been reporting it'd be Punk/HHH for months. Why throw a fit now? I know the easiest thing is to blame HHH for everything, but it's possible for internet-popular wrestlers to be unprofessional and throw fits too.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by molson

I haven't heard anywhere that Punk/Orton was ever the plan for Mania. Meltzer has been reporting it'd be Punk/HHH for months. Why throw a fit now? I know the easiest thing is to blame HHH for everything, but it's possible for internet-popular wrestlers to be unprofessional and throw fits too.

No...not Punk/Orton. Orton/Bryan.

[Mota]

Punk was my favorite wrestler for several years, although I have to say since the feud with Paul Heyman, he's been extremely dull. Of course someone with that talent being forced to fight against guys like Ryback and Curtis Axel for months wouldn't help. I'd rather remember the pipe bomb thrower, or the long hair SES guy rather than the disheveled Wolverine looking guy who was zombie walking through shows for months now. It would suck if he is permanently gone, but maybe that's the only way he'll main event a Wrestlemania since that spot has essentially been reserved for inactive wrestlers for 4 straight years now.