2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[Edward64]

IMO Jim Carrey is not a good Biden. I do like Alec Baldwin as Trump.

Carrey is just too ... energetic/animated (?) and doesn't fit the low key Biden.

[Edward64]

Don't think the Hunter thing will too adversely impact Biden. And Biden's response that I won't answer that, it's a smear campaign is a good response. It would have been better if team Trump attacked Hunter a month ago and steadily increased the pressure.

But I can see continued investigations to dog Biden during his presidency. My guess is although there may not be anything illegal, there could be something unethical about Hunter leveraging his relationship.

[Lathum]

I suspect the Trump campaign attacking Biden about ethics would backfire splendidly.

[Ben E Lou]

Trump is making a list and checking it twice.


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[Edward64]

The "lock her up" chant obviously works to rile up Trump's base pretty well.

Biden doesn't have an equivalent. However, I would propose a campaign around "crazy uncle". I think that definitely resonates and makes fun of Trump which he will absolutely hate.

[JPhillips]

How about we stop calling for our political opponents to be jailed for no reason?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

How about we stop calling for our political opponents to be jailed for no reason?

nope, it's too effective, instead we're just going to drag our nation down to that level

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Don't think the Hunter thing will too adversely impact Biden. And Biden's response that I won't answer that, it's a smear campaign is a good response. It would have been better if team Trump attacked Hunter a month ago and steadily increased the pressure.

But I can see continued investigations to dog Biden during his presidency. My guess is although there may not be anything illegal, there could be something unethical about Hunter leveraging his relationship.

Hunter could be unethical. He was not and is not elected to any office. If he didn't break any laws, then it doesn't matter at all if he traded of his last name to make money (like say the Trump kids do). Having a family member who makes mistakes has never disqualified a President before (see pretty much every President ever). Why should it matter one whit what Hunter did? If you really take a step back, if Hunter being "unethical" is the worst thing you have on Biden, then you have proven what a good candidate he is.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Hunter could be unethical. He was not and is not elected to any office. If he didn't break any laws, then it doesn't matter at all if he traded of his last name to make money (like say the Trump kids do). Having a family member who makes mistakes has never disqualified a President before (see pretty much every President ever). Why should it matter one whit what Hunter did? If you really take a step back, if Hunter being "unethical" is the worst thing you have on Biden, then you have proven what a good candidate he is.

Agree that Hunter himself and actions are irrelevant. However, I can see the GOP trying to connect Hunter "irregularities" to Biden e.g. what did Biden know and when, did Biden get any special contributions etc.

Some GOP members will want to distract and "payback" for the Dems dogging Trump.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Trump is making a list and checking it twice.


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The more I read about the 70s, the more I feel like we're living through a dumber Nixon administration.

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Trump is making a list and checking it twice.


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Because everyone assumes that he will start a crazier Fox News alternative if he loses, he still has the power to hurt GOPers who turned against Dear Leader in his darkest hour.

Even if you are 99% sure he won't be President, you still have to worry about him helping someone primary you in 2022.

They could have had Jeb. They could have had Rubio. They could have had Kasish. Jesus, they could have even had Cruz.

Instead, they decided to put a stupid low-rent mob boss in charge of their party.

I'll never never understand the 2016 GOP primary.

[Brian Swartz]

I remain of the opinion that we really need to understand the why, particularly as weaker echoes of it can be seen in the support for Bernie Sanders. A big part of healing, both here and elsewhere in the world, is grappling with why the wings are becoming more attractive and the disenchantment the public has with how they've been represented by mainstream, establishment parties.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I remain of the opinion that we really need to understand the why, particularly as weaker echoes of it can be seen in the support for Bernie Sanders. A big part of healing, both here and elsewhere in the world, is grappling with why the wings are becoming more attractive and the disenchantment the public has with how they've been represented by mainstream, establishment parties.

This might be slightly oversimplified, but I think if you start getting too much in the weeds on any single point here, it risks missing the forest for the trees.

The GOP knows they're losing the demographic battle but the more devoted core following due to fundamentalist core elements. So their best play is to try and disenfranchise people. They do this by trying to prevent government from working (starving it resource-wise and running it ineptly). This has two beneficial effects. It helps reinforce their messaging as a self-fulfilling prophecy: "see the government doesn't work (because they sabotaged it)". And it demoralizes those who want to vote Democrat, decreasing their turnout and weakening them.

Getting a little lost in the "weeds" here, let's assign "0" to the center, "-1" to the right, and "1" to the left. On the right, this is a perpetual motion machine: the more we break things, the better for us so there's this race to the regressive (-0.5 to -1) end of the spectrum. On the left, they splinter between a center-left (0-0.5) and far left (0.5-1) factions. The center left could easily keep the far left in check because if you can point to incremental change (say, 0.3) as working, most people be content with that. However, the far left would argue that this is become more and more futile against increasing resistance and that the only way to change things wholesale and/or break things because the incremental change that's "halfway" is now right of center (0.3-0.5=-0.2) not left of center so compromise is actually just going backwards and that makes the far left as a more appealing place to start negotiations. I'm guessing those on the "socially" conservative side of the right see the same equations but that the social issues are more important than what they see as more marginal changes to if government is or isn't functioning.

SI

[JPhillips]

I don't think Trump starts anything, as that's too much work. I expect he'll work with OANN to become an alternative to Fox.

And without anyone controlling him, dear God will he be crazy.

[JPhillips]

dola

Cornyn is so damned brave!

Cornyn says he broke with Trump on deficit, border wall, but kept opposition private https://t.co/EqtAIdnDyA

— Fort Worth Star-Telegram (@startelegram) October 18, 2020

[Atocep]

Hunter Biden is the 2020 GOP boogeyman and Ron Johnson is on the case.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

Cornyn is so damned brave!

Cornyn says he broke with Trump on deficit, border wall, but kept opposition private https://t.co/EqtAIdnDyA
— Fort Worth Star-Telegram (@startelegram) October 18, 2020

He was running ads all during the KU/WVU (snicker... at me for watching it) football game on Fox (guffaw... because it was the only Big XII game so Fox had to run it) where he was trying to paint himself as a non-partisan who wants to reach across the aisle to get things done.

1) You're the #2 GOP member in the Senate. Is anyone really buying that?
2) Wait? You're tracking towards the center to try and steal some votes from the center rather than ramp up your GotV enthusiasm? During a football game? In Texas? Their internal numbers must be awful right now and they have to be expecting Trump to get slaughtered.

I hope this stuff eats them alive at the polls as their base realizes they're trying to betray their great and powerful leader.

SI

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

He was running ads all during the KU/WVU (snicker... at me for watching it) football game on Fox (guffaw... because it was the only Big XII game so Fox had to run it) where he was trying to paint himself as a non-partisan who wants to reach across the aisle to get things done.

1) You're the #2 GOP member in the Senate. Is anyone really buying that?
2) Wait? You're tracking towards the center to try and steal some votes from the center rather than ramp up your GotV enthusiasm? During a football game? In Texas? Their internal numbers must be awful right now and they have to be expecting Trump to get slaughtered.

I hope this stuff eats them alive at the polls as their base realizes they're trying to betray their great and powerful leader.

SI

Sounds like the same ads he’s been running no stop up here on the DFW network affiliates. Basically just footage of him in a mask listening compassionately to soccer moms and promising he’ll never let insurance companies take away coverage for pre-existing conditions. That and how bipartisan he is. He’s spending a lot of money trying to convince people he’s Joe Biden.

[Atocep]

My wife's mom sums up his base. She loves MJ Hegar and her ads, doesn't think Cornyn has accomplished much of anything, but still plans on voting for him because he has an R next to his name.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I suspect the Trump campaign attacking Biden about ethics would backfire splendidly.

Haha no fucking shit it will and hope the R’s go for it.

[wustin]

I voted curbside earlier this morning in my car. It wasn't really time efficient but I can see this being a thing in the future for people with disabilities who don't want to mail in their ballot.

[CrimsonFox]

I just voted in person in cincy. Lotsa people there.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't think Trump starts anything, as that's too much work. I expect he'll work with OANN to become an alternative to Fox.

And without anyone controlling him, dear God will he be crazy.

someone is controlling him?

Who would put their hand up THAT ass?

[Ksyrup]

I voted in a small rural suburb of Lexington on Friday afternoon and it barely took 5 minutes.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I just voted in person in cincy. Lotsa people there.

What part of Cinci are you?

[BYU 14]

Just dropped off our mail in ballots at one of the early polling places where we live. In and out, no wait, one of "Trumps Army" in a MAGA hat was "patrolling" near the entrance looking people over, all 130 pounds of him.

Can't wait for this element of society to melt back into the wood paneling

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I just voted in person in cincy. Lotsa people there.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I voted in a small rural suburb of Lexington on Friday afternoon and it barely took 5 minutes.

right... pattern anyone? (yes i recognize, two different states, but we're seeing this in tons of places)...

rural {cough}white{cough}republican{cough} places seem to have perfectly adequate space and locations for voting, it's really easy and accessible... however some of the other {cough}black{cough}democratic{cough} places seem to have fewer places, less convenience, longer lines, and more obstacles

it's a feature, not a bug

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Just dropped off our mail in ballots at one of the early polling places where we live. In and out, no wait, one of "Trumps Army" in a MAGA hat was "patrolling" near the entrance looking people over, all 130 pounds of him.

Can't wait for this element of society to melt back into the wood paneling

How soon before we have a violent confrontation because one of these clowns accuses a brown person of not having the right to vote?

It has to be coming, these people will need to justify their reasons for being there.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Just dropped off our mail in ballots at one of the early polling places where we live. In and out, no wait, one of "Trumps Army" in a MAGA hat was "patrolling" near the entrance looking people over, all 130 pounds of him.

Can't wait for this element of society to melt back into the wood paneling

I don't know if I am alone in this but I feel like the jack is out of the box and these folks aren't quietly going to just go back into hiding. Regardless of what happens with the election I don't anticipate a return to normalcy anytime soon.

[cartman]

I voted on Saturday morning. Polls opened at 7am, I got there at 6:45, and was already the 30th in line. By the time I left, there were a couple of hundred people in line.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

right... pattern anyone? (yes i recognize, two different states, but we're seeing this in tons of places)...

rural {cough}white{cough}republican{cough} places seem to have perfectly adequate space and locations for voting, it's really easy and accessible... however some of the other {cough}black{cough}democratic{cough} places seem to have fewer places, less convenience, longer lines, and more obstacles

it's a feature, not a bug

I don't know the mechanisms involved in a place like Georgia, where I've seen this talked about a lot. Is it all state-run with little/no local control? Question of funding? Roughly half the population of that state is in metro Atlanta, and just about all of the "city" locations are run by Democrats, and the rural/suburban areas more run by Rs. Is there no local ability to increase poll workers/locations? Is this a baked-in issue in early voting related to population density that somehow the Rs snuck through on the Ds????

I'm asking the above because, anecdotally, I have seen several FB posts from friends in the northern suburbs of Atlanta (i.e. heavily white and heavily R) that indicate long lines there, but though they are solidly R, they are also places with fairly large populations.

FWIW, in this purple state (D Governor with 2 R Senators, one of whom may lose to a D this time,) my wife went to vote today at a very white/suburban location. She's going to have to go another time due to the 100+ person line at the time she got there.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

I don't know if I am alone in this but I feel like the jack is out of the box and these folks aren't quietly going to just go back into hiding. Regardless of what happens with the election I don't anticipate a return to normalcy anytime soon.

Agree, they will be a focal minority for some time to come, but at least their "voice" will be somewhat muted, not being paraded about at Trump rallies and parades and all the other crap. Now they will just curse the radical left on social media, stare at their piles of worthless MAGA shit and hopefully that will be the extent, though sadly, I see the fringe elements more than likely perpetuating some violence

Originally Posted by Lathum

How soon before we have a violent confrontation because one of these clowns accuses a brown person of not having the right to vote?

It has to be coming, these people will need to justify their reasons for being there.

Sadly yes, but I think most of these are paper Tigers, who if they do anything, it will be against people they perceive as weak/vulnerable, who hopefully will be protected by others at the polls that have a sense of decency.

[JPhillips]

Federal Appeals Court ruled that the injunction in TX is stayed. The issue was about signature mismatches. The court's ruling today means if your signature is ruled a mismatch you don't have to be contacted to fix it until weeks after the election, by which time it's too late to fix it.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

I don't know if I am alone in this but I feel like the jack is out of the box and these folks aren't quietly going to just go back into hiding. Regardless of what happens with the election I don't anticipate a return to normalcy anytime soon.

Here's my take based on my experience with these types of people. I know these people because every male in my family are these people. I lived my HS years in a community made up of these people.

We know who they are today because the POTUS speaks to them and gives them validation. Since they have the POTUS on their side, they are the big, bad, tough guys.

Once Trump is gone, we'll hear from them for a little while, but then they climb back into their holes and we won't hear from them any more. In reality they talk a big game, but in the end they're really cowards.

[Ryche]

My ballot in Colorado was ridiculously long, probably 18 inches, double sided. Besides the normal races there were a dozen ballot questions. No idea how I would have gotten through all that at the polling place, as it was I spent about an hour on the ballot, looking up the different questions as the meaning on some of them definitely was not clear.

And then drove by the ballot box yesterday, dropped it off, all done. Thank god for mail ballot voting.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Here's my take based on my experience with these types of people. I know these people because every male in my family are these people. I lived my HS years in a community made up of these people.

We know who they are today because the POTUS speaks to them and gives them validation. Since they have the POTUS on their side, they are the big, bad, tough guys.

Once Trump is gone, we'll hear from them for a little while, but then they climb back into their holes and we won't hear from them any more. In reality they talk a big game, but in the end they're really cowards.

Kindof like how the Tea Party fizzled out pretty quickly?

SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

right... pattern anyone? (yes i recognize, two different states, but we're seeing this in tons of places)...

rural {cough}white{cough}republican{cough} places seem to have perfectly adequate space and locations for voting, it's really easy and accessible... however some of the other {cough}black{cough}democratic{cough} places seem to have fewer places, less convenience, longer lines, and more obstacles

it's a feature, not a bug

KY under Bevin would have been a nightmare. The fact that as an R with R control of both the house and senate in the state, he felt obligated to fuck things up as hard as he could, and ultimately it got him canned. Beshear has done a really nice job of finding the sweet spot and make good common sense decisions. The R's have done a good job at looking at what is best for the people and this whole voting thing, at least in KY, feels like one they both get to 'win' with. Without any sort of controversy, we had no reason mail in absentee voting, early voting for anyone starting last week for a month, and then they have been forthright about election day saying, "hey, there's only going to be one or two locations open day of, so get it done when you want, ahead of time". The day we voted, it was about 15 minutes to wait, and when I went with my son for his first time voting, it was closer to 20-25. It's been orderly, and handled professionally. Not something I typically equate with KY, but they get the W from me on this after looking around the US at the problems others have dealt with. Maybe it's because it's still a mostly white state, with little drama in the way of who is going to win the elections here, but it does seem like they were very concerned about the quality and authenticity of the election and made sure (at least in our county) that everyone could be served however they needed to be.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I don't know the mechanisms involved in a place like Georgia, where I've seen this talked about a lot. Is it all state-run with little/no local control? Question of funding? Roughly half the population of that state is in metro Atlanta, and just about all of the "city" locations are run by Democrats, and the rural/suburban areas more run by Rs. Is there no local ability to increase poll workers/locations? Is this a baked-in issue in early voting related to population density that somehow the Rs snuck through on the Ds????

I'm asking the above because, anecdotally, I have seen several FB posts from friends in the northern suburbs of Atlanta (i.e. heavily white and heavily R) that indicate long lines there, but though they are solidly R, they are also places with fairly large populations.

FWIW, in this purple state (D Governor with 2 R Senators, one of whom may lose to a D this time,) my wife went to vote today at a very white/suburban location. She's going to have to go another time due to the 100+ person line at the time she got there.

I saw an interview with the Atlanta mayor and she indicated it was state run and she didn't have any control over it.

[Thomkal]

So I don't hang out at places like Breibart and Fox. I'm just wondering if they are showing totally different poll results than "neutral" polls, are they only showing poll results for Republicans in the lead, etc? Just curious what the "other side" is saying about the elections?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So I don't hang out at places like Breibart and Fox. I'm just wondering if they are showing totally different poll results than "neutral" polls, are they only showing poll results for Republicans in the lead, etc? Just curious what the "other side" is saying about the elections?

The last few FOX news polls (I guess for a few months now) show Biden with a big lead. I'm sure they show those, but then I guess try to spin them?

[Brian Swartz]

I think the basic problem we have is that poll workers in most cases are elderly volunteers. Two-thirds of the country didn't have enough of them in '16, forget about now during a pandemic.

This raises a thorny question IMO. If we can't find enough volunteers to do the job, and we obviously can't, do we revamp the whole thing nationwide and have poll workers be paid government employees? There's all manner of conflict of interests issues there that we've avoided by having volunteers. Accusations of partisanship, both true and false, would fly faster than you can spit.

I still keep coming back to the people don't really care about this side of it, which is why you have things like the infamous butterfly ballot in Florida in 2000 for Bush - Gore and the same thing basically being used in the next election. The only way this gets resolved IMO is if the public demands to pay for it and also demands impartiality, not 'favor my side'. Fat chance of that in the current environment.

[ISiddiqui]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...s-to-mute-mics

Debate Commission adopts new rules muting mics. Trump may have to pick a new strategy.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't know exactly where to put this but since it occurred during an "election simulation" this will work well enough I figure.

Will "pulling a Toobin" become a new euphemism , or is he too obscure for it to gain traction?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Kindof like how the Tea Party fizzled out pretty quickly?

SI

The Tea Party became Q Anon.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Tea Party became Q Anon.

I'd only caveat this by saying "one faction of the Tea Party". (It was pretty factional as I understood it, at least once it morphed into being a catch-all term)

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Kindof like how the Tea Party fizzled out pretty quickly?

SI

Exactly, except a decade or two shorter.

[Edward64]

This seems like a good compromise.

Biden will need to be more assertive and project more during the open discussion portion. You know Trump will try to hog all that open time.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mi...click#cxrecs_s

President Donald Trump and Democrat Joe Biden will have their microphones cut off in Thursday’s debate while their rival delivers their opening two-minute answer to each of the debate topics.

The 90-minute debate is divided into six 15-minute segments, with each candidate granted two minutes to deliver uninterrupted remarks before proceeding to an open debate. The open discussion portion of the debate will not feature a mute button, but interruptions by either candidate will count toward their time in the second and final debate Thursday.

[Lathum]

Why will Biden need to be more assertive? The more Trump speaks the more likely he says something stupid. If I was Biden I would give him all the time he wants.

[Thomkal]

South Carolina sets a new record for absentee ballots with over 520,000 so far. Likely due to easing restrictions on them due to COVID-19, but also some enthusiasm for a Dem candidate who has a real chance at beating Graham.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd only caveat this by saying "one faction of the Tea Party". (It was pretty factional as I understood it, at least once it morphed into being a catch-all term)

Was it the 'dumb' part?

Or the part that really didn't believe what they were saying?