POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I did a quick search queue of the word "immigration" and you have made 524 posts about it, so I assume it is on your mind quite a lot: Front Office Football Central

You also have over 300 posts with the word "illegal": Front Office Football Central

It definitely is on my mind.

When you were signing all the paperwork and making sure that all the proper permits, licenses, insurance were in place, did it cross your mind to consider whether the people building your house were doing so legally (proper labor laws followed, payroll taxes being paid by the builder)?

Nope. Big home builder and had a realtor. Assume everything was good.

It just seems like someone that is so interested in immigration would like to make sure that things are being done above board for, what I assume, is one of the biggest financial investments of your life? If not, that is fine, as I am sure it was financially advantageous to you to get the labor as cheaply as you possibly could - but surprising, given that you seem to have such strong feelings on the subject and would have the opportunity to actually affect change in a situation like this by demanding that your builder do things by the way that they were legally or morally intended.

So just because I am against illegal immigration, I should check all the products I buy and companies I use for their use of illegal labor?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Apparently another potential assassination attempt thwarted in CA?

Haven't seen anything on any of the MSM or reddit that I follow. Don't keep us in suspense, what happened?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Haven't seen anything on any of the MSM or reddit that I follow. Don't keep us in suspense, what happened?

Reportedly someone arrested in California had false id badges for a Trump rally and weapons.
Third Trump assassination attempt thwarted when armed man arrested outside Coachella rally, sheriff says

[NawlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Haven't seen anything on any of the MSM or reddit that I follow. Don't keep us in suspense, what happened?

Headline:

Man in possession of firearms arrested outside of Trump rally in Coachella Valley

Vem Miller, 49, was found to be illegally in possession of a shotgun, a loaded handgun, and a high-capacity magazine

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Reportedly someone arrested in California had false id badges for a Trump rally and weapons.
Third Trump assassination attempt thwarted when armed man arrested outside Coachella rally, sheriff says

Reportedly a right wing anti-government guy.

[Edward64]

Thanks.

“We probably stopped another assassination attempt,” Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco said, according to the Riverside Press-Enterprise.

However, law enforcement sources told The Post that the FBI does not believe this was an assassination attempt, and the former president’s life was never in danger.

Miller — a registered Republican believed to have far right leanings — was booked for possessing a loaded firearm and a high-capacity magazine.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It definitely is on my mind.


Nope. Big home builder and had a realtor. Assume everything was good.


So just because I am against illegal immigration, I should check all the products I buy and companies I use for their use of illegal labor?

You found the family of your workers living in your basement while the house was being built? You said that, right? As in your builder, who is already probably not paying taxes on its employees to build your house, is also not paying enough of a wage for its workers to have housing?

That's a little different than checking all the products that you buy and companies that you use, isn't it? It would seem a little harder to ignore, but again you paid less on the house and the builder made money.

I think you are a hypocrite for being okay with what sounds damn near like slave labor when it very directly benefits you and then coming on here to complain about what a problem it is. Based on your deflections and goal post moving, I don't think you have the capacity to self reflect on that. Period. And I don't really care what else you have to say about it. Enjoy your day.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You found the family of your workers living in your basement while the house was being built? You said that, right?

Yes, I said that

As in your builder, who is already probably not paying taxes on its employees to build your house, is also not paying enough of a wage for its workers to have housing?

On the first clause, why would I assume they are not paying taxes on the workers I found? Big home builder, it'd be normal for me to assume they are doing things above board. Maybe it was a subcontractor they used, who knows?

On the second clause, yes probably true. But so? Because I'm against illegal immigration, I now not only have to check for their legal status but also make sure they are paid enough?

That's a little different than checking all the products that you buy and companies that you use, isn't it? It would seem a little harder to ignore, but again you paid less on the house and the builder made money.

Why is it different? I bought a product from a company (house). You seem to say I should have checked to make sure the company wasn't using illegal labor. Hence, you want me to (and also added wages) ...

So just because I am against illegal immigration, I should check all the products I buy and companies I use for their use of illegal labor?

Tell me why it's different because I'm honestly not tracking your logic, there must be a nuance I'm missing.

I think you are a hypocrite for being okay with what sounds damn near like slave labor when it very directly benefits you and then coming on here to complain about what a problem it is. Based on your deflections and goal post moving, I don't think you have the capacity to self reflect on that. Period. And I don't really care what else you have to say about it. Enjoy your day.

No problem.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So just because I am against illegal immigration, I should check all the products I buy and companies I use for their use of illegal labor?

Actually, yes you should, otherwise you're a hypocrite who is happy to benefit from illegal immigrants as long as you're ignorant to the fact.

I have a friend who is a hard core vegan and animal rights activist. She won't buy anything unless she does her research and knows the product aligns with her cause.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Actually, yes you should, otherwise you're a hypocrite who is happy to benefit from illegal immigrants as long as you're ignorant to the fact.

I have a friend who is a hard core vegan and animal rights activist. She won't buy anything unless she does her research and knows the product aligns with her cause.

Unless I am the business owner that is hiring the illegals or a homeowner hiring an illegal domestic help, I see no obligation to check if companies or products I buy are done with/by illegal immigrants. The example of me buying a house, using a big home builder, and being responsible for their use of (possibly, not confirmed) illegal labor is not practical.

How many degrees of separation is enough?

Happy to continue this discussion with you but suggest we move to another thread. Post your response and I'll copy it over.

[GrantDawg]

Every Republican commercial is about trans people. It is obvious what polling has shown them works.

[GrantDawg]

I t looks like the guy was a right-wing activist, and the guns were just the ones he always travels with.

NEW: Sources close to the Trump campaign tell @FoxNews there was no assassination attempt against Trump at his Coachella, CA rally yesterday. We’re told a man with a gun was arrested at the perimeter of the event without incident.

— Bill Melugin (@BillMelugin_) October 13, 2024

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Unless I am the business owner that is hiring the illegals or a homeowner hiring an illegal domestic help, I see no obligation to check if companies or products I buy are done with/by illegal immigrants. The example of me buying a house, using a big home builder, and being responsible for their use of (possibly, not confirmed) illegal labor is not practical.

How many degrees of separation is enough?

Happy to continue this discussion with you but suggest we move to another thread. Post your response and I'll copy it over.

No interest. You're a flaming hypocrite and I've zero interest to get sucked in to your black hole. Enjoy your home built on the back of immigrant labor.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

No interest. You're a flaming hypocrite and I've zero interest to get sucked in to your black hole. Enjoy your home built on the back of immigrant labor.

Okay, no problem.

[kingfc22]

The I hate illegal immigration but don’t care about all the benefits it may afford me. And on top of that I care about this subject so much that I won’t even be bothered to look into it how I benefit from the thing I hate so much is quite a shtick.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I would ask what qualifications a Black woman might need to not be an “idiot DEI hire” but I feel like anything less than minor deity might fall short…

I would say don’t be an idiot. How was she the most qualified person to be VP?

[JPhillips]

More of Trump's beautiful mind:

Trump: Tren de Aragua.. I have good luck with that name… They say TDR. That sounds like a drug store. If you look at our drug stores, they do pretty good. Did you see the drug stores? You can’t get anything… They have to put up glass in front.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Atocep

She was not the 1st to drop out in 2020. She dropped out before the primaries but 13 people actually dropped out before. That's a Trump talking point you're repeating.

And she was the Attorney General of a state larger than most countries, a 2 time Senator, and current Vice President. Trump had zero experience, Obama had less experience, Bush Jr. had less experience, Carter had less experience, and so on.

Yes, that’s fair that she wasn’t the first, but she was the first out of the major candidates to drop out. Saying she was a two time senator is misleading as she was a senator for less than three years before she ran for President.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

The I hate illegal immigration but don’t care about all the benefits it may afford me. And on top of that I care about this subject so much that I won’t even be bothered to look into it how I benefit from the thing I hate so much is quite a shtick.

On this kind of thing; virtually every American, and that's being conservative about it, uses products daily produced in sweatshop or worse conditions overseas. We're doing nothing about it, we have no plans to do anything about it, and the only way we could do anything about it would basically be to collapse our economy and revert our standard of living decades. Neither major party wants that, or any but the most vanishingly small group of radicals in the electorate.

All of which makes me wholly unconvinced by this kind of argument. When you put up that kind of standard, we all fail.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I t looks like the guy was a right-wing activist, and the guns were just the ones he always travels with.

NEW: Sources close to the Trump campaign tell @FoxNews there was no assassination attempt against Trump at his Coachella, CA rally yesterday. We’re told a man with a gun was arrested at the perimeter of the event without incident.

— Bill Melugin (@BillMelugin_) October 13, 2024

When you want to allow guns everywhere you can't be shocked when they show up everywhere.

[cartman]

Sounds like the guy was a Sovereign Citizen fan

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

On this kind of thing; virtually every American, and that's being conservative about it, uses products daily produced in sweatshop or worse conditions overseas. We're doing nothing about it, we have no plans to do anything about it, and the only way we could do anything about it would basically be to collapse our economy and revert our standard of living decades. Neither major party wants that, or any but the most vanishingly small group of radicals in the electorate.

All of which makes me wholly unconvinced by this kind of argument. When you put up that kind of standard, we all fail.

there is a pretty big fucking difference between a t-shirt made in Bangladesh and the house you sleep in every night.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I would say don’t be an idiot. How was she the most qualified person to be VP?

And I would ask on what basis is she an “idiot.”

“Most qualified” has been used as a criteria for running mate when, exactly? (Why is Vance on the ticket and not McConnell or Grassley? They certainly have more experience.) And what is wrong with her resume? How exactly does someone in California get experience as a Senator for a quarter century if your name isn’t Boxer or Feinstein?

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by cartman

there is a pretty big fucking difference between a t-shirt made in Bangladesh and the house you sleep in every night.

I'm not sure what that difference is, but it's not as if t-shirts are the only thing we get in the described manner. Let's just take one example, cobalt. 70% of it comes from central Africa, and is produced in distressing conditions to say the least, highly hazardous to those working the mines, who earn roughly the equivalent for a dollar or two a day. They're there for the same reason expendable labor has always been there; when you have no other alternative, you'll do whatever it takes to survive.

Originally Posted by Siddharth Kara

Oftentimes, digging in these larger open-air pits, there are pit wall collapses. Imagine a mountain of gravel and stone just avalanching down on people, crushing legs and arms, spines. I met people whose legs had been amputated, who had metal bars in where their legs used to be. And then the worst of all is what happens in tunnel digging. There are probably 10,000 to 15,000 tunnels that are dug by hand by artisanal miners. None of them have supports, ventilation shafts, rock bolts, anything like that. And these tunnels collapse all the time, burying alive everyone who is down there, including children. It's a demise that is almost impossibly horrific to imagine. And yet I met mothers pounding their chests in grief, talking about their children who had been buried alive in a tunnel collapse.

It's illegal, but it still happens, because well ... the rest of the world needs that cobalt, and just as importantly needs it to be cheap. What do we lose if we shut off the supply?

- Lithium-Ion Batteries. Bye-bye EVs, cell phones, laptops, tablets, etc.
- Alloys. A number of metallurgical applications rely on it, including some turbines, aircraft engines, alloys that are corrosion-resistant which have a variety of applications, and so on.
- Catalyst. Particularly in the petroleum industry, but for a variety of chemical processes.
- Magnets. Cobalt is useful in producing particularly powerful magnets, some forms of media use those properties as well as a number of industrial concerns.

I'm sure everyone in this thread would be ok giving up all of these things tomorrow and/or having them become far more scarce and expensive in order to prevent the indefensible treatment of those mining it in the Democratic Republic of Congo ... right? The US doesn't buy the cobalt directly ... we get what we need on that score from other nations. But ... the great majority is bought by China, where it is refined and sold for various purposes in a complex supply chain like most materials. Make no mistake though, a lot of it ends up here, and we're thrilled to have it.

Of course when we're done there, we can multiply this for many other products, because cobalt is far from the only material/product this is true for. This happens to satisfy our greed and comfortable way of life. The more things change, the more they ... don't really change at all. There's just often more distance between the oppressor and oppressed than there used to be.

[SirFozzie]

I was very doubtful of the story that someone with multiple passports under different names and fully-loaded guns who got inside the first cordon of the Trump rally, WASN'T there to harm him.. until it came out that he was a well-known sovereign citizen believer.

Yes, based off the white-nationalist "gold fringe on the flag makes this an illegal admiralty court" view.

So, a white-nationalist, gun-loving person who doesn't believe that laws apply to him because REASONS?

Trump's their hero.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Of course when we're done there, we can multiply this for many other products, because cobalt is far from the only material/product this is true for. This happens to satisfy our greed and comfortable way of life. The more things change, the more they ... don't really change at all. There's just often more distance between the oppressor and oppressed than there used to be.

It comes down to degrees of separation.

How many "steps in the supply chain" before someone somewhere is being taken advantage of. Take enough steps and no one has a clear conscience (including vegans).

Bring it closer to home. Illegal immigrants work on farms, process chickens, etc. Are Kroger shoppers supposed to check if Kroger and its suppliers used illegal workers? Are they supposed to check if the illegal workers were paid fair wages? Countless other examples.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It comes down to degrees of separation.

How many are you separated if you catch a group of them living in your crawl space....or in this example...taking breaks in your basement? How many degrees is that exactly?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

How many are you separated if you catch a group of them living in your crawl space....or in this example...taking breaks in your basement? How many degrees is that exactly?

Me --> Subcontractors --> Subdivision Office Manager --> Builder Corporate Office

So, my guess is 3

How many between you and the fruits/vegetables?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

How many are you separated if you catch a group of them living in your crawl space....or in this example...taking breaks in your basement? How many degrees is that exactly?

Apparently enough to be cool with it as long as home prices are low.

Edward is the guy screaming about homosexuality being a sin while spending his weekends in the village getting hummers in the bathroom.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Apparently enough to be cool with it as long as home prices are low.

Edward is the guy screaming about homosexuality being a sin while spending his weekends in the village getting hummers in the bathroom.

I'm thinking sounds more like your hardcore vegan friend ...

https://www.agdaily.com/lifestyle/fa...hing-as-vegan/

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Edward64

How many between you and the fruits/vegetables?

Good one, Adolf64.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It comes down to degrees of separation.

How many "steps in the supply chain" before someone somewhere is being taken advantage of. Take enough steps and no one has a clear conscience (including vegans).

I don't buy this at all. This demonstrates how messed up humanity continues to be, it's not in any way a justification. There's no moral difference between one degree of separation and five of them. We're either ok with oppressing and abusing people to maintain our way of life, or we're not.

It's like the people in the North who had no problem whatsoever buying up textiles made with Southern cotton prior to the US Civil War, and then tried to the claim the moral high ground later. Doesn't work that way. I don't care if you weren't personally working the plantations, there are only two possibilities:

- You knew where it was coming from, or
- You didn't care where it was coming from.

Edit: to bring it back to the original question, yes I'm definitely aware it's impossible to engage in the modern world without some of this going on. It's a thorny thing to try to unravel or even minimize. The point though is, hard pass on the moralizing of people who seize on one relatively small part of to throw stones at others. We are all participating in this broken system, and as long as that's the case, we all bear one heck of a lot of guilt for the fact that it is perpetuated.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Apparently enough to be cool with it as long as home prices are low.

Edward is the guy screaming about homosexuality being a sin while spending his weekends in the village getting hummers in the bathroom.

Home prices are low? Maybe you live in a world where you see it that way? I never have, and I don't know anyone else who has either.

What makes you think he got a better price on the home? Wouldn't the builder charge whatever the market would support no matter who worked on the house? If the builder is using illegal immigrants I don't think he's doing it to pass on the savings, is he? If he's hiring low priced workers, it's to put the money in his pocket along with the building inspectors that "can't see" what's going on, not discount the houses to sell. That or it could be a subcontractor doing the same, but he's also pocketing the money. Maybe I'm wrong? I'm not a real estate expert but the "he let it go to get a better price" argument doesn't sound right to me.

Both my kids live in new additions to mid-west cities. Home prices are not low and the houses sell almost as fast as they are built. The only difference in price where they built compared to any other site is usually how close said neighborhood is to the golf course, schools, entertainment, shopping (close but not too close), etc. etc..

Yes, E64 says a lot of things I don't agree with as do many others here. He may say more than others and drag it on and on while moving the goal post, but calling him out on his house? IDK, I'm in the "we all use products that come to us on the cheap due to cheap labor" camp. The degree of separation argument in the end just means "it's ok if I do it, but you should be ashamed".

[Lathum]

Regardless of industry unionized American workers will always cost more and that cost will be passed on to the consumer. Same goes for trumps idiotic tariff plan.

You don’t find it the least bit hypocritical he wants to deport the same people who literally built his home.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Good one, Adolf64.

I guess you win the debate on the merits.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You don’t find it the least bit hypocritical he wants to deport the same people who literally built his home.

I think you are getting too emotional and have misunderstood my POV regarding the non-felon illegal immigrants

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

Per #1, 80% (or whatever the % is) will be invited to apply for guest worker status. For the remaining 20%, track them down. Expand whatever agency, give them the funds, and tell them to get it done. So no, not stopping people for no reason to ask for papers. But yeah, if you or me or some Latino are stopped for speeding, want to vote, buy a car, open a bank account etc. checking legal status will be part of the process.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Sweed

The degree of separation argument in the end just means "it's ok if I do it, but you should be ashamed".

Or in other words ...

Originally Posted by cartman

Papers please for thee, not for me

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't buy this at all. This demonstrates how messed up humanity continues to be, it's not in any way a justification. There's no moral difference between one degree of separation and five of them. We're either ok with oppressing and abusing people to maintain our way of life, or we're not.

It's like the people in the North who had no problem whatsoever buying up textiles made with Southern cotton prior to the US Civil War, and then tried to the claim the moral high ground later. Doesn't work that way. I don't care if you weren't personally working the plantations, there are only two possibilities:

- You knew where it was coming from, or
- You didn't care where it was coming from.

Edit: to bring it back to the original question, yes I'm definitely aware it's impossible to engage in the modern world without some of this going on. It's a thorny thing to try to unravel or even minimize. The point though is, hard pass on the moralizing of people who seize on one relatively small part of to throw stones at others. We are all participating in this broken system, and as long as that's the case, we all bear one heck of a lot of guilt for the fact that it is perpetuated.

I will respectfully disagree with you here. I do believe there are "degrees" of blame (aka degrees of separation)

As a general example ...

Person A can be blamed more if he organizes/implements bad thing X. Person B can be blamed less if X-3. Person C can be blamed much less if he is X-10.

[JPhillips]

The stock market continues to crash upwards.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The stock market continues to crash upwards.

"....why this bad for Harris" -NYT

[JPhillips]

Pretty funny how the saving Western civ guys are going to have to come to terms with the new world was colonized by a Jew.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Pretty funny how the saving Western civ guys are going to have to come to terms with the new world was colonized by a Jew.

Yes I saw that-pretty soon they are going to find out he was black too.

[Lathum]

FEMA having to remove all their responders from a county in NC because there is an armed militia out there hunting them.

I fucking hate MAGA so much right now.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

FEMA having to remove all their responders from a county in NC because there is an armed militia out there hunting them.

I fucking hate MAGA so much right now.

They arrested the guy

[BYU 14]

People can pretty much post anything on the internet and people will run with it. Already seen this reposted a couple of times on FB SMH. I would 100% think/hope it has no shred of truth to it, but if there is the Harris campaign will deserve what they get for their stellar job of vetting.

Big October surprise rocks Kamala campaign, Tim Walz accused of 'inappropriate' relations with a minor - Hindustan Times

[GrantDawg]

This story is coming from the same guy that made up the debate whistleblower story. This is complete fiction as well, but he seems to know the right levers to start making things spread through the right wing media.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[GrantDawg]

https://x.com/annamerlan/status/1845...ISQiHRh2g&s=19

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

FEMA having to remove all their responders from a county in NC because there is an armed militia out there hunting them

IF (and that's my doubt about it leading to the all-caps) the stories about FEMA confiscating/otherwise interfering with private relief efforts are accurate then I'm actually surprised this wasn't an immediate reaction in the first place.

The absence of this sort of story is the primary reason I've doubted the veracity of the confiscation/interference on the ground claims ... although I will say that I've seen several one-degree-of-separation accounts in the past 48-72 hours that have actually caused me to have doubts about my doubts.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This story is coming from the same guy that made up the debate whistleblower story. This is complete fiction as well, but he seems to know the right levers to start making things spread through the right wing media.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Was not familiar with him, but 100% right there, MAGAs are devouring it.

[JPhillips]

We're going to end up with some sort of crypto bailout and it's going to piss me off so much.