Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Matthean]

If so many conferences are going to 16, I wonder if the Big 10 is going add enough to be the same, or still hold to the idea of only adding top of the line universities.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Matthean

If so many conferences are going to 16, I wonder if the Big 10 is going add enough to be the same, or still hold to the idea of only adding top of the line universities.

I don't see them expanding just to expand. Just isn't the Big Ten's MO. I think there are a handful of teams they would accept on the spot at this point: Texas, Notre Dame, North Carolina and Duke come to mind. Outside of those schools though, I think they'd rather wait it out and see what happens. If the ACC panics and adds quantity over quality then it doesn't put the Big Ten in a position to panic itself. They can let the Pac 1x and SEC do whatever with 16 teams and not feel terribly threatened.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

If so many conferences are going to 16, I wonder if the Big 10 is going add enough to be the same, or still hold to the idea of only adding top of the line universities.

That would be the wild card in this all. The commish of the Big 10 has always said they'd be proactive if the situation warrants it. You'd think that he'd like to get involved picking up some of these regional schools that make sense for his conference before they were picked off by other conferences. That leaves him with less options than he would have if he acts now.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Missouri would definitely leave; I do not think we have any interest sticking around for a Texas dominated conference.

Wait, WTF situation do you think Missouri is in *right now*? They're in a Texas dominated conference, they've been in a Texas dominated conference for 4 (?) decades. Why quit now? Seems to be working for them...

[Toddzilla]

Watching WVU die on the vine would be such wonderful karma. "We'll stick with VT as Big East football only members until we all can get in as full-sports teams" = WVU jumped at the all-sports invite and left VT hanging. "We'll vote VT in as full members as soon as possible" = voted against VT for full membership in the Big East. "We won't let conference affiliation endanger our long-standing rivalry" = they sue VT for joining the ACC and cancelled the football series. I hope they end up as bottom-feeders in the MAC.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Wait, WTF situation do you think Missouri is in *right now*? They're in a Texas dominated conference, they've been in a Texas dominated conference for 4 (?) decades. Why quit now? Seems to be working for them...

2 years ago = 4 Texas schools out of 12 (33%)
OU and OSU leave and they add Houston and Rice = 6 Texas schools out of ten (60%)

Less than 15 years ago... 0 Texas schools out of 8.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Watching WVU die on the vine would be such wonderful karma. "We'll stick with VT as Big East football only members until we all can get in as full-sports teams" = WVU jumped at the all-sports invite and left VT hanging. "We'll vote VT in as full members as soon as possible" = voted against VT for full membership in the Big East. "We won't let conference affiliation endanger our long-standing rivalry" = they sue VT for joining the ACC and cancelled the football series. I hope they end up as bottom-feeders in the MAC.

Aren't you forgetting the part about WVU being responsible for famine and disease?

[Wolfpack]

The blog that posted the initial Pitt/Syracuse rumor has updated with a 'likely gone' post.

Big East official: Pitt, Syracuse "likely gone" - CBSSports.com

As unwieldy as the Big East has been, I find it difficult to believe Pitt and Syracuse would have jumped unless there was something else in the works that either spooked them (WVU to SEC?) or excited them (Texas or ND to the ACC?), especially at such an odd point in time. I don't know, though.

[Chubby]

The Atlantic Coast Conference has received application letters from Pittsburgh and Syracuse to join the league, according to a high-ranking ACC official.

At least 10 schools have reached out to the ACC during the recent period of uncertainty about conference realignment, the official told The Associated Press on Saturday. The official declined to identify those schools.

The official added that presidents of the league’s 12 schools unanimously approved raising the exit fee to $20 million for any member leaving the conference during a recent meeting. The person spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the league has not publicly announced any of the moves.

A jump by Pittsburgh and Syracuse could lead to another dramatic shuffle in college athletics. Texas A&M has announced its intention to join the Southeastern Conference, leaving the future of the Big 12 in doubt.

If the move goes forward, Pittsburgh and Syracuse would become the fourth and fifth schools to leave the Big East for the ACC in the past decade. Virginia Tech and Miami joined in 2004, and Boston College followed a year later as the ACC’s 12th member.

Syracuse is a founding member of the Big East. Pittsburgh joined the league in 1982. The ACC official said their letters of application to the ACC were for “full” membership.

AP Article

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Wait, WTF situation do you think Missouri is in *right now*? They're in a Texas dominated conference, they've been in a Texas dominated conference for 4 (?) decades. Why quit now? Seems to be working for them...

Panerd summed it up well. Texas has only been in the Big 12 for 15 years.

The collapse of the Big 12 was sowed at creation. The Big 8 schools saw this as an expansion, but Texas pushed for creation of a new comference, and have pretty much gotten their way ever since. Most of the Big 12 is done with that ride. If the Texas solution is to completely take over the Big 12 by thrusting Houston and the like to replace OU, it ain't going to work.

I'm with Wolfpack ... I don't get why Pitt and Syracuse would jump with no provocation. Granted, the ACC has made raiding the Big East an art form. But I'm surprised these reports aren't paired with Texas reports, if Texas is serious about the ACC and not just using it for leverage with the Pac 12.

Maybe Syracuse doesn't want to travel to Ames, Iowa.

And I cannot fathom Notre Dame to the ACC or ND and UT to the ACC without football.

[General Mike]

R.I.P Big East Football Conference. The basketball onlies finally got their wish.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

And I cannot fathom Notre Dame to the ACC or ND and UT to the ACC without football.

Same. I don't understand the financial logic behind it.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Brett McMurphy confirming that Syracuse and Pitt have sent applications to the ACC: Pitt, Syracuse send ACC letters of application - CBSSports.com



I would imagine that keeps FSU in place.

I pray that WVU ends up in the SEC. Otherwise, it is going to be a crap sandwich of BE and B12 leftovers with some AQ schools.

I'm just hoping against hope the chips fall in a manner (and time) that ends with UMass in the Big East. 2-3 years from now once we've completed the FBS transition (and after our current HC's contract runs out) would be better, but if Pitt and Syracuse are jumping, maybe there's a sliver of hope. (Although those are also 2 of the 5ish realistic schools I was hoping to be in a conference with, along with WVU, UConn, Rutgers.)

[Swaggs]

Apparently WVU, Texas Tech, and Texas have also applied to the ACC.

[tarcone]

I still think the B1G will stay at 12. Why is 16 a must? We have a conference championship game now. We have lots of bowl tie-ins. We always get 2 teams to the BCS bowls. Who cares if the ACC and the SEC and the PAC are at 16.
If there isnt a quality program that fits the culture of the B1G, there is no reason to expand.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Apparently WVU, Texas Tech, and Texas have also applied to the ACC.

Chip Brown is saying that the ACC wont take Tech so Texas might not go

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by General Mike

R.I.P Big East Football Conference. The basketball onlies finally got their wish.

...and the problem with that is what?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I'm with Wolfpack ... I don't get why Pitt and Syracuse would jump with no provocation.

Same here. This just seems incredibly & abruptly random.

Either this has been in the works for a while & everyone managed to keep their mouths shut OR there's something else afoot that prompted these two to jump.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Saw a post on one of the boards on BYU with supposed insider info...

1. Oklahoma isn't bolting
2. Texas caved and will give Oklahoma what they want (ESPN was involved here as well.)
3. BYU will be accepting the invite to the Big 12 as they have gotten what they want out of it.

There were other things being thrown around, but I still laugh and do not believe this one bit.

Just someone tell me when this is all done, I am just going to watch football until then.

At this point nothing would surprise me. And I think it's probably safer to bet on attempting to maintain the status quo than something radically new (and I think Oklahoma to the Pac would qualify as relatively radical).

[miked]

Man, I can't remember the last time Syracuse was good at football...maybe when I was at RU and Cuse had McNabb and Harrison. I hope RU goes somewhere, they finally started to become watchable and I can't fathom them playing their "big" games against Villanova and Temple.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Aren't you forgetting the part about WVU being responsible for famine and disease?

Heh. I would never think WVU had anything to do with famine and disease - unless they went public saying they had nothing to do with it.

[General Mike]

R.I.P. Dave Gavitt.

The timing is almost surreal.

http://sportsblog.projo.com/2011/09/...ball-lege.html

[Wolfpack]

Just heard on ESPN News that Pittsburgh to the ACC is going to happen and could be official as early as today. Cited Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Presumably, Syracuse is in the same boat, but I haven't heard any further info about them.

So, it's on and there's no going back, is there?

[k0ruptr]

shits about to get real.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Just heard on ESPN News that Pittsburgh to the ACC is going to happen and could be official as early as today.

CBS saying it's as early as tomorrow but that source says "it's a formality, it's a done deal".

[Abe Sargent]

I love all of this stuff, as long as WVU lands with a seat in a good conference.

[Izulde]

Maybe I should transfer schools so I can get with a football team and conference that won't suck.

[General Mike]

Ok, here's some good info about why things happened from a Big East board I frequent:

A) Pitt, WVU and Rutgers were not satisfied with how the league office was handling expansion and threwatened to leave at the time of the June BIG EAST meetings. The BBall schools lead by Providence with their hand in the back of the commish balked at it and implied that if they felt that strongly about it they should leave.

B) WVU, Pitt and Rutgers were unhappy because the following basketball schools blocked the plan to add Kansas, K-State and Missouri:
Providence
Seton Hall
Georgetown
St. Johns
Notre Dame

Well now they got what they want, because now they can be in the Atlantic Ten's twin brother conference.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Ok, here's some good info about why things happened from a Big East board I frequent:

A) Pitt, WVU and Rutgers were not satisfied with how the league office was handling expansion and threwatened to leave at the time of the June BIG EAST meetings. The BBall schools lead by Providence with their hand in the back of the commish balked at it and implied that if they felt that strongly about it they should leave.

B) WVU, Pitt and Rutgers were unhappy because the following basketball schools blocked the plan to add Kansas, K-State and Missouri:
Providence
Seton Hall
Georgetown
St. Johns
Notre Dame

Well now they got what they want, because now they can be in the Atlantic Ten's twin brother conference.

But how did Syracuse get involved, then? And why haven't WVU and Rutgers left?

[Swaggs]

Our guys feel pretty strongly that WVU will be the SEC's #14 unless Oklahoma has a last second change of heart (and decide to join A&M in the SEC. rather than making the move to the Pac XX or staying in the Big 12), which is very unlikely at this point. Apparently, the Pitt and WVU ADs have been in close contact throughout this process. Much less concrete, but there is talk that Missouri and Louisville will be #15 and #16, but added at a later date.

My first preference has always been to stay, with our longtime rivals, in a stabilized Big East. With Penn State in the Big Ten and now VPI, Maryland, BC, Pitt, and Syracuse all in the ACC, I think I would prefer the matchups in the ACC to the SEC, but being the Northern-most SEC team (wedged in between ACC and Big Ten country) will be exciting and should really help our recruiting.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But how did Syracuse get involved, then? And why haven't WVU and Rutgers left?

WVU is working on it. Likely the next out the door.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But how did Syracuse get involved, then? And why haven't WVU and Rutgers left?

My guess is that WVU has an assurance from the SEC. Pitt and WVU have been working together over the past couple years to try to find a safe landing. WVU's AD knew that Pitt had applied before the news broke, so I think they are still communicating. The mood seems to be much better than the 2003 raid (less of a sense of backstabbing this time).

I think Rutgers is kind of in a wait-and-see mode, but has a chance to join the ACC with UConn if the Notre Dame and Texas stuff does not work out.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Our guys feel pretty strongly that WVU will be the SEC's #14 unless Oklahoma has a last second change of heart (and decide to join A&M in the SEC. rather than making the move to the Pac XX or staying in the Big 12), which is very unlikely at this point. Apparently, the Pitt and WVU ADs have been in close contact throughout this process. Much less concrete, but there is talk that Missouri and Louisville will be #15 and #16, but added at a later date.

Originally Posted by Swaggs

My guess is that WVU has an assurance from the SEC. Pitt and WVU have been working together over the past couple years to try to find a safe landing. WVU's AD knew that Pitt had applied before the news broke, so I think they are still communicating. The mood seems to be much better than the 2003 raid (less of a sense of backstabbing this time).

Pretty much what I've heard/read. The SEC zeroed in on WVU a couple of weeks ago. The Baylor thing had people a little nervous just because the longer things played out there was a chance the SEC could change its mind for whatever reason.

Like I've said all along, WVU people have been very confident about where they sit this time around.

[Passacaglia]

Missouri and Louisville as a 15th and 16th seems like not worth expanding IMO if I were running the SEC.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Missouri and Louisville as a 15th and 16th seems like not worth expanding IMO if I were running the SEC.

Yeah, other than really beefing up the basketball side of things, I'm not sure how that will work. I guess it would give some Midwestern presence between the two of them and give another East/West team.

I really still don't see the point in expanding beyond 12 teams for anyone. Anymore than that and it seems like you risk splitting into two mini-conferences without very much interaction between the two sides. Seems like 14 is going to be the norm between the Pac, SEC, and ACC, though (and probably a reformed Big East/Big 12 all-sports league).

[Toddzilla]

I'm not going to say it won't happen because I have no idea, but the SEC taking WVU makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, academically or financially.

At least Missouri delivers the Kansas City and St. Louis TV markets. WVU brings nothing to the table. No television markets, not great academically (#146 in the US News list and #406 in the Forbes list), it's baffling, really.

[Ksyrup]

If the ACC manages to pull this off and maybe even add 15 and 16, what a coup. I was seriously concerned that FSU was going to end up in a Big 12 situation or seriously weakened conference; now it looks like they will be the first to secure their place going forward. I guess people underestimated Swofford - or, at least, there are less leaks out of the ACC than any other conference by a wide margin.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I'm not going to say it won't happen because I have no idea, but the SEC taking WVU makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, academically or financially.

At least Missouri delivers the Kansas City and St. Louis TV markets. WVU brings nothing to the table. No television markets, not great academically (#146 in the US News list and #406 in the Forbes list), it's baffling, really.

TV markets are greatly overrated in college sports. How's BC bringing in the New England market working for the ACC? Or Depaul bringing Chicago market to the Big East?

WVU is top 15 in merchandise and consistently puts up good ratings on ESPN. Those are things that actually matter.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Atocep

TV markets are greatly overrated in college sports. How's BC bringing in the New England market working for the ACC? Or Depaul bringing Chicago market to the Big East?

WVU is top 15 in merchandise and consistently puts up good ratings on ESPN. Those are things that actually matter.

BC worked out great, as the ACC used the TV market in Boston as part of the TV contract with ESPN. And now the ACC can add in the Pennsyvania and New York markets. What is WVU going to offer? Charleston? Parkersburg?

And do you really think the Presidents of the universities give a shit how many t-shirts are sold? That's a fraction of a fraction of a percent of how much revenue is derived by advertising on television.

I don't think you have a clue what really matters.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

BC worked out great, as the ACC used the TV market in Boston as part of the TV contract with ESPN. And now the ACC can add in the Pennsyvania and New York markets. What is WVU going to offer? Charleston? Parkersburg?

Ah, the under market value contract the ACC would love to rip up right now and have redone?

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

And do you really think the Presidents of the universities give a shit how many t-shirts are sold? That's a fraction of a fraction of a percent of how much revenue is derived by advertising on television.

I don't think you have a clue what really matters.

Your hatred for WVU and any other school that has looked at VPI wrong in the last 50 years is pretty damn entertaining. I'm sure you have a nice list.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Seems like 14 is going to be the norm between the Pac, SEC, and ACC, though (and probably a reformed Big East/Big 12 all-sports league).

I don't know about the other's, but 14 is horrible for the Pac-12. It would mean one of the original Pac-8 teams agreeing to move to the eastern division and leave everyone of their existing rivalries. The other option is a zipper alignment, but Scott was against that last time because of the confusion and there is no reason to think he's changed his mind.

[Toddzilla]

Why do you think Notre Dame has been able to remain independent in football? Here's a hint, it ain't because of how many sweatshirts they push. It's TV, baby. And you can be sure that once the ink is dry on the Pitt and SU contracts, the ACC will be on the phone to ESPN to schedule a renegotiation of the TV deal.

And yeah, I hate WVU (and Louisville too), but you know I'm right. WVU brings nothing to the table.

oh, and thanks for using VPI

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Why do you think Notre Dame has been able to remain independent in football? Here's a hint, it ain't because of how many sweatshirts they push. It's TV, baby. And you can be sure that once the ink is dry on the Pitt and SU contracts, the ACC will be on the phone to ESPN to schedule a renegotiation of the TV deal.

And yeah, I hate WVU (and Louisville too), but you know I'm right. WVU brings nothing to the table.

oh, and thanks for using VPI

Missouri had all those same things going for it last Summer, but the Big Ten chose to take the small market and inferior academic school in Nebraska.

[Ksyrup]

Plus, as small of an issue as it may seem, bringing in a true eastern team eliminates having to move a western team to the eastern division.

[timmynausea]

On the November 2, 2006, Thursday night telecast of #3 West Virginia Mountaineers' 44–34 loss to #5 Louisville Cardinals delivered an average of 4,916,000 households (based on a 5.3 rating), the biggest household audience ever for a Thursday night game on the network and the second-biggest college football audience ever for an ESPN game (any day or time slot).

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

BC worked out great, as the ACC used the TV market in Boston as part of the TV contract with ESPN. And now the ACC can add in the Pennsyvania and New York markets. What is WVU going to offer? Charleston? Parkersburg?

Let's not get crazy here. I'd venture that anyone east of Harrisburg (MAYBE York) couldn't give a crap about Pitt. And I'm not sure if Syracuse has much more of an influence in New York as would say, Buffalo in the NFL.

[Young Drachma]

Big Ten might have to offset bringing in Nebraska by snapping up Rutgers. Even if no one watches the Scarlet Knights, B1G Network in NYC shouldn't hurt the coffers.

[tarcone]

I dont think the B1G is joining this mess. There are no "homerun" schools out there that would join. UNC and Duke wont leave now. ND seems happy as an independent. Now if they got Texas, and ND followed along, I could see them going for Rutgers. But who would be 16?
Nope, the B1G will stay at 12 and enjoy their great conference as is.

[thealmighty]

Sounds like TCU will be screwed when all this is finished.