NFL 2020 Season Thread

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

They must destroy Tom Brady.

They.

Must.

I'm going to guess a lot hinges on the state of their offensive line

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

They must destroy Tom Brady.

They.

Must.

I am rooting for the Chiefs, mainly b/c of Andy Reid.

But this year has made me much less anti-Brady. My big complaint against him is that I always thought he was a bit overrated and more a product of the team/system.

And he has disproven that. It was almost like a self-correcting thing. If he had sucked outside of NE, I'd have been like "Yeah, he does suck!" But then when he didn't, I kind of thought "Huh, the guy really is that good. Well, good for him, then."

[BishopMVP]

HOUSTON -- The Houston Texans have hired Baltimore Ravens assistant David Culley to be their next head coach, sources told ESPN, confirming a report by the Houston Chronicle.

Culley, 65, who has spent the past two seasons in Baltimore, just completed his 27th season as an NFL coach. Along with serving as the team's assistant head coach, Culley was Baltimore's passing game coordinator and wide receivers coach. The Ravens finished the 2020 season ranked last in the NFL in passing.

Can we at least have an arbitrator say that this guy isn't worth 2 3rd round picks while Brian Flores being signed by Miami gave us zero compensation?

[bhlloy]

Houston is easily heading towards becoming a complete doormat for the league for the next 10+ seasons. Holy hell if you’d predicted this at the start of 2018 or so when things looked so promising.

[tarcone]

Im rooting for the Bucs. Tristan Wirfs is an Iowa guy thgat has allowed only one sack all season. He has been on the line for every pass play this year.

And I really dont like the Chefs, but Anthony Hitchens is another Iowa guy I like watching.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I am rooting for the Chiefs, mainly b/c of Andy Reid.

But this year has made me much less anti-Brady. My big complaint against him is that I always thought he was a bit overrated and more a product of the team/system.

And he has disproven that. It was almost like a self-correcting thing. If he had sucked outside of NE, I'd have been like "Yeah, he does suck!" But then when he didn't, I kind of thought "Huh, the guy really is that good. Well, good for him, then."

I'm with you on this. I mean I don't LOVE Brady now or something, but I respect him a lot more now

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Houston is easily heading towards becoming a complete doormat for the league for the next 10+ seasons. Holy hell if you’d predicted this at the start of 2018 or so when things looked so promising.

It's being reported that Watson wants to be traded.

[AlexB]

It’s a shame that the Texans supposedly don’t rate Tua - having only seen him in the NFL, i would take the Tua + #3 for Watson like a shot, but not sure I would give much than that.

[Ksyrup]

I was not impressed at all with what I saw of Tua. The main question to me from what I saw is, can he actually make the throws but just lacks the confidence and understanding to make the right throw, or is he a product of playing for a college football team that looked like it was playing JV high school teams.

I can't remember which game it was, but the one where they benched him for Fitzmagic and Fitz immediately started making the correct throws and brought them back, I think it was Kurt Warner who pointed out that Fitz knew exactly what "NFL open" was and was making the right throws even where guys looked covered, and Tua was waiting for "Alabama open," never getting it, and checking down (or scrambling/getting sacked).

[albionmoonlight]

I was higher on Tua before this season than I am now.

But I still think that he becomes an Alex Smith/Ryan Tannehill. Not a franchise guy. But not a guy that makes you think of pulling him for Fitzpatrick.

[JPhillips]

I wouldn't give up on Tua as he might really improve with real off-season work, but I also wouldn't take him as the centerpiece of a Watson trade.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I was not impressed at all with what I saw of Tua. The main question to me from what I saw is, can he actually make the throws but just lacks the confidence and understanding to make the right throw, or is he a product of playing for a college football team that looked like it was playing JV high school teams.

I can't remember which game it was, but the one where they benched him for Fitzmagic and Fitz immediately started making the correct throws and brought them back, I think it was Kurt Warner who pointed out that Fitz knew exactly what "NFL open" was and was making the right throws even where guys looked covered, and Tua was waiting for "Alabama open," never getting it, and checking down (or scrambling/getting sacked).

Yeah, that's a small sample size and you're comparing a longtime NFL veteran to a rookie. Furthermore, everyone was pretty high on Tua up until the week 14 game when his top WR Devante Parker went down. He'd thrown 7 TD and 0 INT up to that point. Without Parker, he threw 4 TD and 5 INT. The receiving corps was decimated (and not even very good before that) and so was the backfield.

There are clearly things he needs to work on like with almost any rookie and I'm all on board with the Dolphins going after Watson if they can get him, but the bashing of Tua's perforrmance ignores some realities about the Dolphins season.

[Ksyrup]

I saw a couple of games, Denver being the other. Just too much in the way of check-downs. As I recall his numbers looked OK in that game he got benched but he couldn't even break 100 yards passing with like 15/20 completions. Against Denver he was terrible.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

It's being reported that Watson wants to be traded.

Sportsdigs (and, umm, literally everywhere) had this two weeks ago.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I wouldn't give up on Tua as he might really improve with real off-season work, but I also wouldn't take him as the centerpiece of a Watson trade.

+1

Am I confident Zach Wilson or Mac Jones, even Justin Fields, has a better career than Tua? No, but if anyone thought Tua had the ceiling to be a star QB every Miami fan wouldn't be so eager to trade him + #3 for Watson.

[albionmoonlight]

You’ve got to be kidding me pic.twitter.com/GWJUZKP1Ml

— Adam Lefkoe (@AdamLefkoe) January 29, 2021

Maybe he's just not great with public speaking, but wow that's painful to watch.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Am I confident Zach Wilson or Mac Jones, even Justin Fields, has a better career than Tua? No, but if anyone thought Tua had the ceiling to be a star QB every Miami fan wouldn't be so eager to trade him + #3 for Watson.

Don't agree with this either. I think Tua has that ceiling, but it's just that: a ceiling. Watson is already a star and only 25. Those types of players don't come available very often.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

You’ve got to be kidding me pic.twitter.com/GWJUZKP1Ml

— Adam Lefkoe (@AdamLefkoe) January 29, 2021

Maybe he's just not great with public speaking, but wow that's painful to watch.

Between that and the Dan Campbell speech it’s been a banner year for going “yep, they will be looking again in 2 years time” just off introductory press conferences.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Philadelphia Eagles: Fans roasted Nick Sirianni after press conference

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Between that and the Dan Campbell speech it’s been a banner year for going “yep, they will be looking again in 2 years time” just off introductory press conferences.

One of the local beat writers here told a story of how several years back they attended the first press conference for a new 49ers coach, and literally while walking out of the conference a co-worker turned to him and said "Well, looks like we'll be doing this again next year." He said that's exactly how he felt after watching the Campbell conference.

That clip was brutal to watch, oof. You can't stumble in a speech WHILE you're talking about being smart.

[rjolley]

Just came across this story on Twitter and thought it was interesting: Thread by @EnswellJones on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

[21C]

Stafford to Rams and Goff to Detroit. Rams are also sending two future first round picks and a third.

At first glance, it looks like the Rams are paying the steeper price.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Stafford to the Rams for Goff, two first-round picks, and a third-round pick. That seems awfully steep a price for Stafford; wonder if it's to offset Goff's huge contract.

[bhlloy]

Wow, the Rams really were done with Goff. Even though Stafford was probably the only realistic move out there, that's a hell of a quadruple down that he's good enough to win a Super Bowl.

I'm kinda surprised the Lions couldn't get something better from somewhere else. I guess they either do believe Goff can be reclaimed or they can cut him at some point without it being crippling - otherwise I'm not sure why you do it for what are probably 2 late first rounders in 2022 and 2023. Maybe you take the developmental QB this year and let him sit behind Goff for a while, but those scenarios never really seem to play out that well, and there's a chance Goff is even more terrible away from McVey.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Wow, the Rams really were done with Goff. Even though Stafford was probably the only realistic move out there, that's a hell of a quadruple down that he's good enough to win a Super Bowl.

I'm kinda surprised the Lions couldn't get something better from somewhere else. I guess they either do believe Goff can be reclaimed or they can cut him at some point without it being crippling - otherwise I'm not sure why you do it for what are probably 2 late first rounders in 2022 and 2023. Maybe you take the developmental QB this year and let him sit behind Goff for a while, but those scenarios never really seem to play out that well, and there's a chance Goff is even more terrible away from McVey.

What did you think that the Lions were going to get for Stat Padford?

At first glance I have to think this is a win for the Lions.

[NobodyHere]

I also have to think that Houston is salivating at the news of this deal.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What did you think that the Lions were going to get for Stat Padford?

At first glance I have to think this is a win for the Lions.

A 2021 first and third and not getting back the worst contract in the entire league would be a better deal in my opinion. As per Rapoport, the Lions had multiple offers that started with a first rounder plus.

The only reason I'm not completely down on it from the Lions perspective is I'm not sure if there is now a creative way they can get out of the contract, but honestly I don't love the deal from either team's perspective. The Lions are still going to be a mess, those picks won't help immediately and they have inherited a huge Goff headache. I'd rather have taken less on the pick side for a clean break to decide what I want to do at the QB position.

[21C]

Without knowing where the first round picks end up being, I think the Lions were probably worried about giving a (flawed) franchise QB and then starting from scratch at QB with no guarantee that they would have a reasonable player under center for the foreseeable future.

The Lions recently signed former QB Mark Brunell as their QB coach. We will have to see if he can get Goff back to his former level of play.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, I dunno. I mean I think the point of dealing away your franchise QB is to hit the reset button, not take on what is pretty unanimously a worse QB situation instead.

And again, no idea if they plan to keep Goff as a placeholder QB for who they pick in the draft, truly see him as their QB of the future or if they might just YOLO it and cut his ass and just be terrible in 2021. I'd probably take what's behind door #3 and hope those Rams picks turn out to be better than expected or flip them for something that really moves the needle in this years draft.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I also have to think that Houston is salivating at the news of this deal.

And, if the "LA or Bust" rumors that were around yesterday are true, that Watson is suddenly rather depressed.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Yeah, I dunno. I mean I think the point of dealing away your franchise QB is to hit the reset button, not take on what is pretty unanimously a worse QB situation instead.

And again, no idea if they plan to keep Goff as a placeholder QB for who they pick in the draft, truly see him as their QB of the future or if they might just YOLO it and cut his ass and just be terrible in 2021. I'd probably take what's behind door #3 and hope those Rams picks turn out to be better than expected or flip them for something that really moves the needle in this years draft.

https://twitter.com/JuMosq/status/1355720904181952519

Sounds like they can cut him in 2022 if/when he sucks and they get 2 1sts and a third either way.

[Edward64]

I'm thinking LA paid too much for Stafford but am glad for Stafford and getting a fresh start.

[albionmoonlight]

Normally with a trade, the sending team eats all the guaranteed money b/c it’s mostly signing bonus. But people are saying this trade was in part to get rid of the Goff contract.

Does Goff have a lot of guaranteed salary?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Normally with a trade, the sending team eats all the guaranteed money b/c it’s mostly signing bonus. But people are saying this trade was in part to get rid of the Goff contract.

Does Goff have a lot of guaranteed salary?

Jared Goff Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Looks like 27 mil this year and 15 mil next year.

[Atocep]

It's crazy the Rams are going to enter the 2024 draft with Goff as the last player they selected in the 1st round.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Wow, the Rams really were done with Goff. Even though Stafford was probably the only realistic move out there, that's a hell of a quadruple down that he's good enough to win a Super Bowl.

I'm kinda surprised the Lions couldn't get something better from somewhere else. I guess they either do believe Goff can be reclaimed or they can cut him at some point without it being crippling - otherwise I'm not sure why you do it for what are probably 2 late first rounders in 2022 and 2023. Maybe you take the developmental QB this year and let him sit behind Goff for a while, but those scenarios never really seem to play out that well, and there's a chance Goff is even more terrible away from McVey.

How many times have we seen what we 'think' will be a late first round pick turn into an earlier pick? Injury luck, better/worse than expected play, etc... all kinds of reasons to be skeptical that we have any degree of certainty about how good or bad those picks will be.

With the caveat that I haven't been watching football all that closely the past year, this seems like a major overpay for a quarterback that isn't all that much better. I also think after they paid all that for him, Stafford's in a decent spot to ask for a raise / extension from them. Not sure if he's a 'hold their feet to the fire' guy though.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm thinking LA paid too much for Stafford but am glad for Stafford and getting a fresh start.

Yeah, as a 50+ year Rams fan I agree it sounds like a lot to give but....

NFL is a league with smallish windows to make runs at Super Bowls and I think Stafford puts the Rams at or near the top of the pack for the NFC next year. One trip to the SB, especially with a win, makes it worth the price.

Still in January and already excited for next season. Stability at QB instead of waiting and hoping for Goff to improve his decision making. Too many times he would cost them a game they had in the win column. With Detroit's history I feel kind of bad for him, tough place to succeed. But, maybe with the new regime in place he will find success?

I'm happy the Rams made the deal. If I woke up today and found out the Niners had made this deal I'd be worried. Now I can only hope Watson or some other top QB doesn't end up there

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by bronconick

https://twitter.com/JuMosq/status/1355720904181952519

Sounds like they can cut him in 2022 if/when he sucks and they get 2 1sts and a third either way.

Yeah, that’s pretty good for the Lions then. They can relax and take a QB this year if they like and let him develop, or just hit the big reset button in 2022 a year later assuming they are still bad with Goff in 2021.

Although Campbell doesn’t exactly seem like the “rebuild and be patient with talented young players” type, so that might be interesting.

[thesloppy]

The Rams will have seven straight seasons without a first round pick.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

The Rams will have seven straight seasons without a first round pick.

That seems bad with the NFL salary cap
-NFL Scholarly Journal "Duh"

SI

[Ksyrup]

So is it true Stafford said he'd be willing to go anywhere except NE? Ha!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

A 2021 first and third and not getting back the worst contract in the entire league would be a better deal in my opinion. As per Rapoport, the Lions had multiple offers that started with a first rounder plus.

The only reason I'm not completely down on it from the Lions perspective is I'm not sure if there is now a creative way they can get out of the contract, but honestly I don't love the deal from either team's perspective. The Lions are still going to be a mess, those picks won't help immediately and they have inherited a huge Goff headache. I'd rather have taken less on the pick side for a clean break to decide what I want to do at the QB position.

Originally Posted by bronconick

https://twitter.com/JuMosq/status/1355720904181952519

Sounds like they can cut him in 2022 if/when he sucks and they get 2 1sts and a third either way.

Basically what Bronco posted - I agreed Goff was the worst contract in football when he signed and the Rams paid more in draft picks to pass along those guarantees - but I'd take this deal in a heartbeat if I were the Lions & Goff's contract really isn't bad for them. They'll pay him $28m to be the starter this season, they can decide if they want to pay him $25m or cut him for only $15m dead cap after the year, and have a completely free out after 2022. Like most I doubt he's their long term answer, but he's fine as a placeholder while you look for that guy.

[BishopMVP]

The epic cap mismanagement by the Rams has been hilarious. I assume they give Stafford a massive 6 year extension soon.

Todd Gurley earned $32M in 2 years of his 6 yr, 71.5M contract.

Brandin Cooks earned $42M in 2 years of his $85M contract.

Jared Goff earned $57M in 2 years of his 6 yr, $161M contract.

The #Rams should just offer 2 year deals...

— Spotrac (@spotrac) January 31, 2021

[Carman Bulldog]

It's hard to immediately declare winners and losers of a trade. I think that's something that can only be truly done a few years down the road.

Having said that, I think the trade makes sense for both teams. The Rams are in win-now mode. They have a very good defence and an offence that they feel could be much better with a different quarterback. Obviously they were ready to move on from Goff. The price to pay for Stafford was steep (and probably more than others would have to pay) and I believe part of that was having to get out of the Goff contract. He was basically un-cuttable, meaning a trade was their only option to get out of that contract.

The goal for the Rams is to win a Super Bowl within the next few years and they didn't believe that they could do that with Goff. Nor can they draft a quarterback and wait a few years for him to develop and hope their defence is at the same level in 2024 or 2025. They obviously believe Stafford is an upgrade and good enough to get their offence to the next level which, if their defence can stay at the same level, would push them into Super Bowl contender category over the next few years

The Lions will not be winning a Super Bowl over the next two seasons, regardless of who they have at quarterback. It really makes little sense to start a rebuild with a 33-year-old quarterback who will be a free agent in two years. Obviously new GM Brad Holmes still believes in Goff, and even if he's wrong, they just traded two years of Stafford for two plus years of Goff, and picked up a pair of first round picks and a third round pick in the process. The Lions are not a better team today than yesterday but that wasn't their goal. The trade does theoretically give them a better shot at winning a Super Bowl in, say 2026, than if they had not made the trade, and I think that's their goal.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

...The Lions will not be winning a playoff game over the next two decades, ...

Fixed, if history is any guide

[Honolulu_Blue]

My view on the Stafford/Goff trade.

Two firsts and a third is good value for Stafford.

I really dislike Jared Goff. I think he's a terrible quarterback and excelled in a great system for a time. I don't like tying up any money in him. Given how small the cap is going to go up and how many teams are going to have to make cuts due to cap issues, it's not a bad time to be flushed with cap space. There are likely bargains to be had.

That being said, the Lions aren't really in a position to be seeking out free agents. They're in a full rebuild and it's better to build through the draft and then get pieces through free agency when the time is right to compete.

Jared Goff is not the answer to the Lions' quarterback issues. That answer lies somewhere in the draft, be it this year or in some future year. Hopefully, Goff will be here for a season and that will be that. In an ideal world, the Lions would turn around and trade Goff to someone, but that's not going to happen. Assuming Goff is the starter next year, it will be a(nother) painful, boring year of Lions football.

Apparently, both Carolina and Washington offered 1st round picks this year as part of a package. It's hard to fully compare what was on the table without knowing what, if anything, other teams were offering, but to get Carolina's 1st rounder this year (8th overall) and likely some other compensation, is that better than 2 lower first round picks, a 3rd and Goff and his poopy contract?

[Swaggs]

Is it possible that Goff is a useful QB in the right system. I found this article and he was not the consensus from 12 "experts" to go #1 in '16: 2016 NFL Mock Drafts: Does consensus have Rams choosing Goff or Wentz?

They had it 8-4 in favor of Wentz over Goff.

I think this one looks clearly in favor of the Lions, with the upside to move even further in their favor if Goff turns into a decent QB (either for Detroit or enough so to be traded). I doubt that happens due to his contract, but if I'm the Lions, I'm building up the offensive line (draft and 2nd contract free agents) the next two years and letting Goff have at it while the right skill guys come into the system from the draft.

[Swaggs]

I should say, I really like Stafford, too. I just think two #1's is a lot to surrender.

[albionmoonlight]

I think Goff is a shitty QB. But we've seen him as a rookie under Jeff Fisher, which should not count for anything. And then look both amazing and terrible under McVay, which is also kind of hard to evaluate b/c of how much of a system McVay runs.

Remember when we all thought that Mike Martz was a genius who made Kurt Warner look like a Hall of Famer? And it turned out that instead Kurt Warner was a Hall of Famer who made Mike Martz look like a genius?

I'm not saying that Goff is Kurt Warner. But I'm OK with the Lions taking a season to evaluate him out of the McVay system to see what he actually looks like. If he turns out to be above average, then they suddenly have a QB that another team paid them to take. If he turns out to suck, then they cut him at no cost.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I should say, I really like Stafford, too. I just think two #1's is a lot to surrender.

Eh. We put first round picks too high on a pedestal. If you think Stafford gets you over the hump you go get him.

Same thing with Watson. If I am Miami I jump at the chance to trade Tua and a first for him. If I am Jax or the Jets, 2 -3 firsts. No problem!

[Galaril]

So Watson's price tag is 2 1st rounders, 2 2nds rounders and two younger starting defenders:-)