2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[Swaggs]

How did ESPN manage to show a Duke game without Dickie V. calling it?

[Radii]

Texas/Missouri has definitely been the game of the night. Mizzou by 1 with 4:30 to go.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

M-I-Z Z-O-U!!!!!!!!!

HUGE win for the Tigers in Austin tonight!!! The league is basically a three horse race now with OU, KU, and MU 1 1/2 games clear of the rest of the league.

MU plays on the road against ISU this Saturday while KU hosts OSU. Assuming both teams win, it sets up a monster game at Mizzou Arena on Big Monday with both teams likely being ranked!

LET'S GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sterlingice]

Business to attend to with Okie State and Iowa State this weekend.

Then it's time to take our young and inconsistent but talented show on the road for a nice Big Monday showdown.

SI

[Butter]

Wow, how did Clemson get away with having Duke and UNC only once each this year? If Purnell can avoid the problems he's had in the past with road games (typically, Clemson is good for a couple of dropped road games to far inferior teams per season), Clemson could be set up nicely for a top-3 conference finish, with 6 of their last 9 games against the bottom 6 in the conference.

That was one of the most satisfying college basketball games I have ever watched. Coach K just sat most of the 2nd half and watched his team get dismantled.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

That was one of the most satisfying college basketball games I have ever watched. Coach K just sat most of the 2nd half and watched his team get dismantled.

I'm glad I'm sitting in a cubicle today instead of a Duke practice. Coack K is going to throw his back out just from the force of his yelling. I see a lot of sprints in their future.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I really liked Coach K trying to make sure the players got the point.

CLEMSON, S.C. (AP) -Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski called a timeout in the final minute, gathered his beaten Blue Devils around him and let them listen as the Littlejohn Coliseum crowd celebrated a Clemson win like few others.

Prolonging the agony as a teaching tool, I like it, especially if (as a Clemson player said afterwards) Duke quit at the end.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

M-I-Z Z-O-U!!!!!!!!!

HUGE win for the Tigers in Austin tonight!!! The league is basically a three horse race now with OU, KU, and MU 1 1/2 games clear of the rest of the league.

MU plays on the road against ISU this Saturday while KU hosts OSU. Assuming both teams win, it sets up a monster game at Mizzou Arena on Big Monday with both teams likely being ranked!

LET'S GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! What a game!!!!!!!!!

[sooner333]

It will be pretty awesome game on Big Monday...of course, you always have to watch out for Hilton Magic, especially in a look-ahead game on Saturday.

I feel better about OU beating KU at home rather than Mizzou on the road for sure. Mizzou is a good team and Coach Anderson has them playing hard and you have to respect that. They also bring legitimacy to the Big 12 North (and thus makes the conference look better in general). Of course, the conference is so down this year we can use legitimacy wherever we can.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As Pat Summitt goes again tonight for win number 1,000, the injury bug for the Lady Vols is getting ridiculous. Already this season they lost Cait McMahan to a series of knee injuries that proved to be career ending. Then last week it's a second torn ACL in two years for sophomore Vicki Baugh, season ending at best.

20 seconds into tonight freshman Alicia Manning goes down & out for the night with some sort of thigh injury. And now in the opening minutes of the second half they have to carry Shekina Stricklen off with what looked at first to be a knee but while I'm typing this we hear an eavesdrop from the bench with Pat telling the team that it's a groin injury & she'll be okay.

And none of that gets into the ridiculous run of concussions they went through during practice at the start of the season. Of the original 12 player roster, only 4 of the 12 players have not missed at least one game this season.

I know it's a sidebar to the main focus for the men's game here & everything but watching this really makes me think that there's something to the feature I saw CNN run over the weekend about how the physiology of young women was so different from that of young men and the role that plays in increased injuries, specifically knee injuries. Something to the effect that lateral movement was more natural for growing boys while growing girls tended to be more vertically oriented & that explosive lateral movement wasn't something they were designed for. I'm sure that rankles some folks but I didn't make it up, the core of of the story was a female researcher who wasn't saying anything needed to be done differently or suggesting any restrictions but just dealing with the reality of the physical differences.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sooner333

It will be pretty awesome game on Big Monday...of course, you always have to watch out for Hilton Magic, especially in a look-ahead game on Saturday.

I feel better about OU beating KU at home rather than Mizzou on the road for sure. Mizzou is a good team and Coach Anderson has them playing hard and you have to respect that. They also bring legitimacy to the Big 12 North (and thus makes the conference look better in general). Of course, the conference is so down this year we can use legitimacy wherever we can.

Honestly, the Big 12 North has a real argument for being the better division. 2 of the top 3 and 4 of the top 6 teams are in the North. The North has a winning record in the head-to-head matchups against the South. Baylor and Texas have to be considered the biggest disappointments in the league thus far. KSU and NU have been relative surprises considering nothing was expected of either team, yet their right in the middle of the pack.

[Radii]

Duke survives against Miami after shooting 19% in the first half and trailing by as many as 16 early in the 2nd half. Jack McClinton carried Miami and forced an overtime, but Miami went completely cold in the OT. 78-75 Duke in OT in Durham.

That drops miami to 4-6 in the ACC. 3 of their final 6 games are on the road and 1 of the home games is vs UNC next Saturday. They are definitely on the bubble and need to make something pretty big happen in their final 6 games or in the ACC Tourney to get in I would think.

[Karlifornia]

Meanwhile, Nebraska is up 4 on Texas with less than a minute left. Go Huskers!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tennessee loses to Auburn on the road, slips to 14-8 overall. Just an incredibly disappointing season this year for a team that was supposed to be at least Sweet 16 caliber.

[Chief Rum]

UCLA crushes Notre Dame on national TV. Good win, even though Notre Dame has really fallen off in its losing streak. I am thinking a lot of people saw UCLA for the first time today, and it will be interesting to see what sort of jump they make in the polls.

[Karlifornia]

Michigan is hanging tough in Storrs...I wonder if Thabeet could be the #1 overall pick. He seems to still have loads of untapped potential.

[RedKingGold]

Nova's win against Syracuse has to put them into "lock" category.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The table is set for the biggest Border War match-up in several years. 19-4 Kansas at 20-4 Mizzou. The hatred in me boils without control.

OU, Kansas and Mizzou are all but locks in the Big 12 at this point. It looks like this will be a 5 bid league, meaning that KSU, NU, and Texas will be fighting for the last two spots. If Texas doesn't turn things around in a hurry, we could easily see 4 of the 5 Big 12 bids go to the North Division. The South has really disappointed this year.

[CU Tiger]

And in historical Clemson fashion a huge win is followed up by a disappointing loss. The program was and os progressing nicely under Purnell, I just hate this atypical performance.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The table is set for the biggest Border War match-up in several years. 19-4 Kansas at 20-4 Mizzou. The hatred in me boils without control.

OU, Kansas and Mizzou are all but locks in the Big 12 at this point. It looks like this will be a 5 bid league, meaning that KSU, NU, and Texas will be fighting for the last two spots. If Texas doesn't turn things around in a hurry, we could easily see 4 of the 5 Big 12 bids go to the North Division. The South has really disappointed this year.

Neither KSU nor NU have any guaranteed shots. Neither did anything in the non-conference so even 10-6 would require a decent Big XII tourney showing. Texas has a nice non-conference to fall back on but they will need to close strong to get a spot.

SI

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

And in historical Clemson fashion a huge win is followed up by a disappointing loss. The program was and os progressing nicely under Purnell, I just hate this atypical performance.

I don't know, man. FSU looks to be a tournament team this year. Disappointing to lose at home I'm sure, but I wouldn't be too broken up about it.

[Groundhog]

St. Mary's are looking WOEFUL without Pat Mills. 1-2 since he went down, with 18 point losses to both Santa Clara and Portland. They play like a completely different team.

[Wolfpack]

Proving once again there are always new and unique ways to lose a game, State blows an 18-point second half lead at Virginia Tech and loses in OT, 91-87. The intentional foul call that basically flipped the entire game around was complete and utter BS and resulted in a five-point possession for the Hokies, but there was plenty of time and lead to regain their footing after that, which they naturally didn't do.

Such a good time to be a State fan. Really.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

And in historical Clemson fashion a huge win is followed up by a disappointing loss. The program was and os progressing nicely under Purnell, I just hate this atypical performance.

Classic hangover game, I wouldn't worry too much.

The thing that makes it the most galling is that Clemson had a 16 point lead with under 8 minutes left. Blowing that type of lead almost takes effort.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Neither KSU nor NU have any guaranteed shots. Neither did anything in the non-conference so even 10-6 would require a decent Big XII tourney showing. Texas has a nice non-conference to fall back on but they will need to close strong to get a spot.

SI

Sure, but you could say that about a lot of the middle of the pack teams in a BCS conference. Someone's going to emerge out of those three, while another will likely limp in thanks to a 9-7 record and a good run in the conference tourney. Similar stories will occur in the other big conferences.

[Swaggs]

WVU travels to Pittsburgh tonight. WVU has a really high RPI, based mostly on very good losses (neutral sites against Kentucky and Davidson and BE games against 'Cuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, and Marquette), rather than very good wins. We have beaten Ohio State on the road and Georgetown on the road (although that doesn't look too special nowadays), but we really need to knock off one of the big dogs we have remaining (@ Pitt or at home vs Louisville or Villanova) to get a protected seed.

I'm not too confident going against Pitt and DaJuan Blair, but if we could somehow get his giant butt in foul trouble and shoot well, we could steal one here.

[MizzouRah]

Allright SI and KU... should be a good one tonight!!!

GO TIGERS MIZ-ZOU!

[MJ4H]

i hate basketball

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Allright SI and KU... should be a good one tonight!!!

GO TIGERS MIZ-ZOU!

Just gotta chime in here with a "ROCK CHALK! JAYHAWK! KU!"

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Proving once again there are always new and unique ways to lose a game, State blows an 18-point second half lead at Virginia Tech and loses in OT, 91-87. The intentional foul call that basically flipped the entire game around was complete and utter BS and resulted in a five-point possession for the Hokies, but there was plenty of time and lead to regain their footing after that, which they naturally didn't do.

The problem with that call (aside from the fact that they looked at it on the replay and still missed State getting a piece of the ball...) was not so much that it took State out of it but that it got Tech and the fans back into it. And it's yet one more reminder why I watch so little basketball these days...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I think it's important to note just how despicable a breed these Jayhawkers really are................

There are some KU fans that believe the Jayhawk is nothing more than a “cute little bird”, and do not realize the Jayhawk moniker can be directly traced to the jayhawkers that were part of the violence and warfare along the Missouri-Kansas border during the Kansas territorial period and later during the Civil War (collectively known as the Border War). Among the KU fans that recognize the historical basis of the moniker, a sizeable portion believe the term “jayhawkers” refers to noble and honorable men that fought to keep Kansas from becoming a slave state, and that then fought for the freedom of all men during the Civil War. That sounds good, but the historical reality isn’t that pretty.

The reality of the Border War was obscured to a significant degree by two waves of propaganda. The first was the propaganda campaign waged during the territorial period, when the northern press gave the public (and to an extent also gave posterity) a politicized and highly biased version of the nature of the conflict that accompanied Kansas statehood. For example, many associate the territorial period with “Bleeding Kansas”, a term coined by Horace Greeley of the Ney York Times to inflame the passions of the times, and a term that contributed to a distortion of the reality that persists to this day. A careful review of violence during the Kansas territorial period (1854 to 1860) indicates there were 56 deaths that can be attributed to the fight over slavery. Compared to the 1,200 that died in the frontier violence in San Francisco in the period 1850 to 1853, Bleeding Kansas was not very bloody. The second wave of propaganda came after the Civil War, when the history was being written by the victors, and the actions of those associated with the Union cause were glorified (or white-washed), and those of the defeated vilified.

What was the historical reality of the jayhawkers? To understand the truth, one must understand the time and place the term came into use. The term "jayhawking" first appeared in the Kansas press in November 1958. This was AFTER the battle for Kansas statehood was essentially over (e.g., the pro-slavery Lecompton Constitution went down to its third defeat in mid-1958).

The place that the term “jayhawker” and Kansan first began to be associated was in southeast Kansas (Linn and Bourbon counties). The vast majority of the political bloodshed in Kansas was over by the end of 1856, but violence in southeast Kansas flared up later, and extended more or less into the Civil War. Why? It is important to understand that most emigrants that settled Kansas Territory did not come to make any statement about slavery, but to acquire land. When southeast Kansas was initially settled, it was primarily by pro-slavery settlers, and they claimed the best lands (those with water and timber). When John Brown unleashed political bloodshed in southeast Kansas with the massacre at Pottawattamie Creek, some pro-slavery settlers drove free-state settlers off their claims. The pro-slavery movement in Kansas Territory was basically defeated by the flood of emigrants from what is now the Midwest (Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, etc) and their embrace of the superiority of a free labor system over slavery. This wave of emigrants that embraced the fee-state cause overwhelmed any advantage that was initially held by the pro-slavery forces. That tide of emigration reached southeast Kansas in 1958, and as pro-slavery settlers became a minority, they were driven off their land claims by militants aligned with the free-state cause. “Jayhawkers” was the term used to describe these militants. Additionally, as with any frontier, there were banditti about, and they used the free-state movement as en excuse for horse theft and plundering. These banditti also went by the name of jayhawkers. In the words of an early Kansas historian, “Confederated at first for defense against pro-slavery outrages, but ultimately falling more or less completely into the vocation of robbers and assassins, they have received the name --- whatever its origin may be -- of jayhawkers”.

Pro-slavery settlers in Kansas Territory were not the only victims of the jayhawkers. The moderate free-state settlers that believed pro-slavery settlers should be allowed to remain on their legally valid claims were also targets of the jayhawkers’ campaign of violence and intimidation. As the jayhawkers consolidated their control of southeast Kansas, they also began to launch raids into Missouri. The objectives of these raids varied. For John Brown, the raids were a chance to experiment in guerilla warfare, and to practice and hone the techniques he would later employ at Harpers Ferry. For others, the raids, while ostensibly for the purpose of freeing slaves, were primarily an opportunity to plunder.

When the Civil War broke out, the “jayhawking” term came to encompass the mode of total war unleashed on the civilian population of western Missouri in the first year of the war. Men who had been leaders or champions of the jayhawkers during the territorial period, men like Jim Lane and Doc Jennison, became leaders of the Union forces raised by Kansas. They and their troops descended on western Missouri in a campaign of theft, arson, torture, and murder. Between September 1861 and the end of January 1862, a whole string of Missouri towns were plundered and burned. Among the population centers reduced to ashes were Morristown, Osceola (about the same size as Lawrence, Kansas), Papinsville, Butler, Dayton, and Columbus. Additionally, hundreds of families were burned out of their homes in the country side around Pleasant Hill, Rose Hill, Kingsville, and Lexington. In their predations, the jayhawkers made little effort to distinguish between Union and Secessionist among the Missouri residents.

The Union military belatedly moved to bring the jayhawkers into control and to stop their predations. The U.S. military declared martial law in an "anti-jayhawking" proclamation in early 1862, helped to maneuver Lane out of his military command, and banished Jennison's Seventh Volunteer Kansas Cavalry (also known as Jennison’s Jayhawkers) from the region. With the Seventh to be moved out of striking distance of Missouri, Jennison and his sidekick Hoyt quit the 7th Kansas, encouraged their fellow brigands in the regiment to desert, and started a new jayhawking organization that came to be called the redlegs. Predations on the citizens of western Missouri continued, leading to Quantrill’s retaliatory raid, and culminating in Order No. 11, the forced depopulation of several Missouri counties in an effort to put down the guerilla warfare fomented by the predations of the jayhawkers and redlegs.

Many KU fans will dismiss the above portrayal of the jayhawkers and redlegs as “revisionst history”. Well, don’t take the word of an MU fan on this topic, let’s see what Charles Robinson had to say about it. Robinson was the leader of the abolitionists that founded Lawrence, and served as first governor of the new state of Kansas. Following are excerpts from his book The Kansas Conflict, in the chapter on the Civil War subtitled “Lane's Brigade and Jay-Hawking.” Describing his feelings about the jayhawking at the time his term as Governor expired in 1863, Robison states that “Enough had been seen and experienced of the management of the war in the West, permitting the most brutal and inhuman outrages, all to gratify personal greed, malice, or ambition, to disgust any person not entirely given over to subsisting upon human misery.” In describing the consequences of the “war of rapine…under Lane and his red-leg thieves”, Robinson concludes that "Order No. 11 would have never been needed, and Quantrell's raid at Lawrence would never have occurred.”

So next time you hear the lines about the jayhawk being about a “cute little bird” or its heritage going back to the honorable men that fought to make Kansas a free state, don’t buy it. The KU athletic teams are named after an unsavory assortment of rogues, thugs, and outright criminals that hastened and steepened the descent of the Missouri-Kansas border region into the horrors of total war. They were a scourge to innocent civilians of both Missouri and Kansas, even if that fact failed to register with many Kansans of that era and continues to be glossed over by the KU fans of today.

[sterlingice]

Both sides had the proverbial (and literal, in this case) raping and pillaging. Missouri was the slave state, Kansas was the free state. Scoreboard. Take your little propaganda elsewhere

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Both sides had the proverbial (and literal, in this case) raping and pillaging. Missouri was the slave state, Kansas was the free state. Scoreboard. Take your little propaganda elsewhere

SI

Does your wife know that the MU/KU game is tonight?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Does your wife know that the MU/KU game is tonight?

Yeah, tho she's at a conference in Albuquerque

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rankings are out. MU was the big mover in both polls. Mizzou jumped from unrated to #17 in the AP poll and #19 in the Coaches poll.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

[nole4sho]

It's most certainly nice too see Florida State ranked at 25, hopefully we can break through and make the tournament.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, sorry....Kansas wins that battle.

As an aside, I just came into $13,500, and I was thinking of putting it all on Missouri tonight. Thoughts?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Yeah, sorry....Kansas wins that battle.

As an aside, I just came into $13,500, and I was thinking of putting it all on Missouri tonight. Thoughts?

I'd give Mizzou about a 60% chance to win. According to Yahoo, it's bid 200 to win 100 with Mizzou or bid 100 to win 160 with Kansas so I'm not too far off from Vegas. The Tigers are at home and, frankly, we've been inconsistent, like any young team (yeah, I know, most teams would kill to be as "inconsistent" as we are this year).

Frankly, I think Mizzou's D will frustrate us and they will build a lead in the first half. We'll see if KU can come back.

SI

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Just gotta chime in here with a "ROCK CHALK! JAYHAWK! KU!"

Damn you!

[sterlingice]

Game on

SI

[Radii]

What a terrible half of basketball in Missouri, heh. Kansas D deserves a little credit for sure but Missouri is just playing awful. And really Kansas hasn't looked great but when Missouri is shooting under 25% it doesn't take much!

[Izulde]

I bet Karl's breaking something if he put all that dough on Mizzou.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I know it's a sidebar to the main focus for the men's game here & everything but watching this really makes me think that there's something to the feature I saw CNN run over the weekend about how the physiology of young women was so different from that of young men and the role that plays in increased injuries, specifically knee injuries. Something to the effect that lateral movement was more natural for growing boys while growing girls tended to be more vertically oriented & that explosive lateral movement wasn't something they were designed for. I'm sure that rankles some folks but I didn't make it up, the core of of the story was a female researcher who wasn't saying anything needed to be done differently or suggesting any restrictions but just dealing with the reality of the physical differences.

Here's a good article on it. I remember this being a somewhat big topic years ago.

Knee Injuries are More Common for Female Basketball Players

[Radii]

as bad as the first half was, I'm glad I stuck with it, Mizzou/Kansas tied with 1:15 to go.

[sterlingice]

And tied again with 0:23 to go

SI

[Radii]

congrats mizzou fans!

[sterlingice]

Well, that played out almost the exact opposite as I said it would.

Fun second half, tho a lot more fun for Mizzou fans

SI

[sterlingice]

Man, that was a pretty shot

SI

[cartman]

The Big 12 is gonna be lucky to have any teams make it to the Sweet 16 this year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Rankings are out. MU was the big mover in both polls. Mizzou jumped from unrated to #17 in the AP poll and #19 in the Coaches poll.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

Hmm, apparently UCLA's thrashing of a number of opponents of late has drawn attention, jumping six spots in the AP, and I am not sure how many in the ESPN poll, but they're #6 now, and I am certain they weren't in the Top 10 before.