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Old 09-19-2020, 09:09 AM   #51
Vegas Vic
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Of course, after the news of her passing, before her body was even cold, people from all political persuasions started to frantically argue about the timetable for filling her seat.

Please forgive me for a brief moment of civility:

Statement from the President on the Passing of Supreme Court Associate Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Today, our Nation mourns the loss of a titan of the law. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg served more than 27 years as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States—notably just the second woman to be appointed to the Court. She was a loving wife to her late husband, Martin, and a dedicated mother to her two children.

Renowned for her brilliant mind and her powerful dissents at the Supreme Court, Justice Ginsburg demonstrated that one can disagree without being disagreeable toward one’s colleagues or different points of view. Her opinions, including well-known decisions regarding the legal equality of women and the disabled, have inspired all Americans, and generations of great legal minds.

A fighter to the end, Justice Ginsburg battled cancer, and other very long odds, throughout her remarkable life. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Ginsburg family and their loved ones during this difficult time. May her memory be a great and magnificent blessing to the world.

Statement from the President on the Passing of Supreme Court Associate Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg

OK, carry on........

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Old 09-19-2020, 09:29 AM   #52
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and if you think the President himself wrote that...
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Old 09-19-2020, 09:46 AM   #53
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So the republican propaganda machine is already saying the reason McConnell held things up in 2016 was because we had a dem president and a republican senate, which isn't the case this time around. Does anyone recall if they stated back then that was the reason why?

To paraphrase a saying from my military days, what happens in 2016, stays in 2016.
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Old 09-19-2020, 09:49 AM   #54
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and if you think the President himself wrote that...

Of course he didn't. They seldom do after they take office. Many of President Obama's press releases were written by Jon Favreau.
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Old 09-19-2020, 09:52 AM   #55
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Of course he didn't. They seldom do after they take office. Many of President Obama's press releases were written by Jon Favreau.

Especially that weird one where he ran out onstage and yelled "I AM IRON MAN!" Or was that all just a hallucination (and maybe a different Favreau)?

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Old 09-19-2020, 09:58 AM   #56
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We'll see Trump's classiness on display when he skips and tweets through the funeral.
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:02 AM   #57
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dola

She was probably toast before this, but Collins is dead now that GOP senators are gleefully saying this future nominee will kill Roe v Wade. Either she backs them and further alienates more moderate voters or she calls for a delay and the Trumpers stay home.

Now she'll have to settle for a career as a multi-million dollar lobbyist.
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:08 AM   #58
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Of course he didn't. They seldom do after they take office. Many of President Obama's press releases were written by Jon Favreau.

But in the past there was a modicum of attachment to the person holding the office.
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:13 AM   #59
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Pretty simple solution. If McConnell doesn't stand by his stance, Democrats will add 2 justices after the election.

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Yes, this is the response for all the Dems, but I doubt they will even threaten that much less carry it out.
Also, expect DC and Puerto Rico to become states, which add 4 senators (likely all D) to the chamber.

Add to that a dramatically expanded Federal Judiciary (100+ new judges) and basically the Dems are saying "if a new justice is confirmed, we're burning it all to the ground"
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:14 AM   #60
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as they should
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Old 09-19-2020, 03:10 PM   #61
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They should because those are the rules the GOP wants to play by.

Question is will the Dems do it? They have to realize that the continued changing landscape and population is trending in their favor. Who cares what the old, white, “Christian” GOP guard has to say.
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Old 09-19-2020, 03:15 PM   #62
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Stop respecting rules your opponents do not respect, Dems.
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Old 09-19-2020, 03:59 PM   #63
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And it is jut a standard law to change it (House, Senate and President's signature).

So does that mean for Democrats to change it to 11 or 15 we need to win the Senate and White House and also maintain the House?
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Old 09-19-2020, 04:05 PM   #64
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They should because those are the rules the GOP wants to play by.

Question is will the Dems do it? They have to realize that the continued changing landscape and population is trending in their favor. Who cares what the old, white, “Christian” GOP guard has to say.

Hmm I use to think and say a few years ago and when the Tea Party R's look on the ropes in summer of 2016 that we could breed out these ass holes in this country with more liberals being born and educated but just seeing all the Latinos supporting Trump even after what he has said and done gives me pause. Demographics do appear to be trending in the Dems way over the next 50 years but if the R's win this time and get a super majority with 6-3 in the SC they can really alter the very fabric of the country and I fear divert our countries trajectory as a land of immigrants to something more racially like Norway eventually.
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Old 09-19-2020, 05:14 PM   #65
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So does that mean for Democrats to change it to 11 or 15 we need to win the Senate and White House and also maintain the House?

Yes. And eliminate the filibuster.
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Old 09-19-2020, 05:42 PM   #66
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Collins said today the winner of the election should make the supreme court appointment.
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Old 09-19-2020, 06:01 PM   #67
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Yes. And eliminate the filibuster.

Gotta go full 15, and the filibuster is completely dead forever.
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:55 PM   #68
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Collins said today the winner of the election should make the supreme court appointment.

this is me not holding my breath
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:57 PM   #69
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Stop respecting rules your opponents do not respect, Dems.

that is the sad truth of the last 20 years...
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:33 PM   #70
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I made the mistake of reading the comments on FB's shitty weaksauce two-line, text-only response to RGB's death.

Between the fucking morons who had no idea who she is, the mouthbreathing women screaming about unborn babies and personally blaming RGB for them, and the white dude jackassery, my block list added another 50 names before I had to stop and risk a stroke from the mass stupidity and callousness I was reading.

I don't want to return to the bitter, all-encompassing misanthropy of my 20s. It took me almost two decades to get rid of it. I can't fall back into that trap again.
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:21 AM   #71
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It's interesting to me that the Republican line is that NOW the court is deadlocked at 4. Meaning they're casting Roberts off, painting him as a liberal, and saying we need to take the advantage now. Strategically, for the layman and ignorant party voter, it's a good strategy.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:03 AM   #72
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I just want to add a great big, stupendous, thank you to all the voters who couldn't see that the entire outcome of the 2016 election was about SCOTUS. The whole thing. So to everyone who is really outraged, and really up in arms about all this shit, but you didn't vote for Clinton, thank you, for being principled and short sighted. You have destroyed the country that I thought I lived in.

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Old 09-20-2020, 11:39 AM   #73
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It's all nice and theoretical how the Dems will surely pick up more than 4 senate seats(accounting for Jones losing). Isn't Biden winning and still being down 51-49 more than plausible? Maybe you get Colorado, Arizona, and North Carolina.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:43 AM   #74
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Maine is the other one that looks like it could flip. Iowa is a toss up but Ernst might be helped by the court opening. Georgia and Montana are other possibilities.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:53 AM   #75
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If Biden wins by 3 or 4 points, a GOP senate is more likely. If Biden wins 7-9 points, it's hard to see that happening without the Dems also taking the Senate.

Split ticket voting seems to be happening more often in the Trump years, but it still doesn't happen a lot.
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Old 09-20-2020, 12:34 PM   #76
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I posted this in the general thread, but it seems to fit better here now.

The Senate’s Rural Skew Makes It Very Hard For Democrats To Win The Supreme Court | FiveThirtyEight
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:03 PM   #77
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Interesting set of options they mention here for the Dems if they can get the presidency and control the House and Senate.
How Democrats Could Pack the Supreme Court in 2021
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:05 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by PilotMan
I just want to add a great big, stupendous, thank you to all the voters who couldn't see that the entire outcome of the 2016 election was about SCOTUS. The whole thing. So to everyone who is really outraged, and really up in arms about all this shit, but you didn't vote for Clinton, thank you, for being principled and short sighted. You have destroyed the country that I thought I lived in.

You're welcome. Principled yes, short-sighted no. And the people destroying the country are the people actually destroying the country. I.e. in this case we're talking people who voted for Trump, supported him while he's in office, Trump himself, etc. Doesn't apply to people who have opposed him, regardless of what candidate they chose instead.

I'd also suggest that what we have here is the continuation of a decades-long trend. It didn't start with Trump, and it's not likely to end with him.

Speaking of which, let's say Democrats expand SCOTUS to 15. What do they do if in 2024, or 2034, or whenever Republicans get power again and expand it to 21 or whatever? Is there a plan for where that ends?

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Old 09-20-2020, 03:23 PM   #79
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It might, I mean, why should anyone be concerned about the world of future consequences anymore? We were told that only today matters. Governance, pragmatism and future planning are weak subordinates now to power.

My point is that it doesn't end. It will never end. You cannot count on one side to attempt to consider all those things, while the other side simply plays for today. So yeah, bring on the 50 person supreme court, which reduces its clout and acceptance, since it's all political now. And while we're at it, let's dissolve the Senate, reinforce the complete and total authority of the executive, jail political opponents, nationalize the media (so it can finally be fair), eliminate immigration, declare states that don't fall in line enemies of the state, and withdraw all funding to them across the board, allow any 'militia' to be federalized with complete protection in the name of law and order. You could go on.

Why not? We could make america great again. When one side decides that power is more important than the overall health and impact of it's choices you don't leave it up to someone else to try and fix it. You burn that motherfucker to the ground until nobody can take it anymore and start over again.
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:39 PM   #80
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To my mind, the point is that if you don't care about future consequences then there's little point in caring what Trump is doing now either. The only reason to care is if you think he is hurting something worth saving. If you decide it's not worth saving, then the only reason to be more than mildly annoyed is the fact that he's the one doing it and not somebody more to your line of thinking.
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:47 PM   #81
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2 names have emerged as possible replacements. Don't really know how qualified they are.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...-lagoa-reports
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Two names have been emerging from the list of Supreme Court contenders President Trump is said to be considering following the death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, according to reports.

Judges Amy Coney Barrett in Chicago and Barbara Lagoa in Atlanta are said to top the list.

Found the last sentence interesting. I can see where her nomination will help Trump quite a bit in FL.

Quote:
The Miami native was nominated in 2006 by then-Gov. Jeb Bush to Florida’s 3rd District Court of Appeals, where she served for more than a decade before being elevated briefly to the state’s Supreme Court. Last year, Trump nominated her to the Atlanta-based U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit and she was easily confirmed, according to USA Today.

Lagoa is a member of the conservative Federalist Society and is backed by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis but some have questioned her conservative credentials, especially on abortion, according to Politico.

She’s also a Roman Catholic and of Cuban descent, which could help Trump in November.
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Old 09-20-2020, 04:04 PM   #82
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To my mind, the point is that if you don't care about future consequences then there's little point in caring what Trump is doing now either. The only reason to care is if you think he is hurting something worth saving. If you decide it's not worth saving, then the only reason to be more than mildly annoyed is the fact that he's the one doing it and not somebody more to your line of thinking.

I would rather see fire fought with fire. I am so tired feeling shit on politically. I guess we should just give in and give up. There is no ethical end point that can't be crossed anymore.

Can you not see the direction of thought that the country is heading in? I know you do. You're a functional, beyond logical, emotionless thinker. At some point you have to see the manipulation at hand and the threats that it poses. Simply saying, "hey, it's been going on a long time, and we just need to accept it" isn't really good enough. We knew the government lied to perpetuate the Vietnam war and we still have people who think it was a good and valuable endeavor. If we simply accept that those things are unavoidable, and that every person is untrustworthy, and that we should expect them to do bad, manipulative things when they are in power, then we've clearly lost. The only savior at that point will be an authoritarian dictator. This game plan has been the forte of the Russians to destabilize the country for a long time, and now it seems like enough people here have bought into it. There are failed governments world wide. Ours is simply on the path and one side is helping on the way at light speed.
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:51 PM   #83
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I'm sorry, I legitimately don't even know what your point is anymore. It seems to me you are arguing my case.

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Originally Posted by PilotMan
If we simply accept that those things are unavoidable, and that every person is untrustworthy, and that we should expect them to do bad, manipulative things when they are in power, then we've clearly lost. The only savior at that point will be an authoritarian dictator.

This is quite close to what I spent the last couple of posts saying. It is what fighting fire with fire leads to. I'm not saying we should accept things as they are - I accepted a long time ago that my opinions are a minority but I definitely don't approve of the direction. Continuing to scale up packing SCOTUS seats (or whatever tactic) with no endgame in sight will end in that authoritarian future you're describing here.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:43 PM   #84
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2 names have emerged as possible replacements. Don't really know how qualified they are.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...-lagoa-reports


Found the last sentence interesting. I can see where her nomination will help Trump quite a bit in FL.

Lagos is also one of three judges presiding over a 100 million dollar case for Trump adviser Jason Miller.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:47 PM   #85
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Barrett is scary as a SC Justice and would be the polar opposite of RBG.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:59 PM   #86
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Barrett is scary as a SC Justice and would be the polar opposite of RBG.

How so?

I can't say I know anything about her.
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:09 PM   #87
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How so?

I can't say I know anything about her.

She's a strict Catholic that believes a man is the head of a household and a woman's place is behind her man. She's also outright hostile to Roe v Wade.

If you wanted to shit on RBG's legscy she's the perfect nominee.
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:15 PM   #88
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Belonging to a fringe church that literally had the lead female advisors calls "handmaids" means the protests write themselves

My wife has taken to calling her Serena Joy (which would probably mean something if I had read The Handmaid's Tale)

SI
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:28 PM   #89
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I'm sorry, I legitimately don't even know what your point is anymore. It seems to me you are arguing my case.



This is quite close to what I spent the last couple of posts saying. It is what fighting fire with fire leads to. I'm not saying we should accept things as they are - I accepted a long time ago that my opinions are a minority but I definitely don't approve of the direction. Continuing to scale up packing SCOTUS seats (or whatever tactic) with no endgame in sight will end in that authoritarian future you're describing here.

jfc
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:35 PM   #90
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IMO, the best scenario is that both parties follow norms. This is far and away my preference.

The second best scenario is that neither parties follows norms. It's bad, but has the potential to end in a MAD stalemate where both parties legally enshrine some norms and decide to honor others.

The worst scenario is one side honoring norms while the other ignores them. There's no end game for that scenario. There's no point to ever surrender because they can just wait until they are in power again knowing that the other party won't do much of anything to hinder their long-term plans.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:55 PM   #91
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Belonging to a fringe church that literally had the lead female advisors calls "handmaids" means the protests write themselves

My wife has taken to calling her Serena Joy (which would probably mean something if I had read The Handmaid's Tale)

SI

Are you calling Catholicism a "fringe church"?
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:14 PM   #92
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Per wiki it's more of a religious group which happens to be made up prinarily of Catholics.

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In September 2017, The New York Times reported that Barrett was a member of a small, tightly knit Charismatic Christian group called People of Praise;[70] its members swear a lifelong "covenant" (loyalty oath) to each other and are assigned a personal advisor, a "head" for men or "leader" for women, who gives direction on important personal decisions.[71] In the past, female personal advisors were called “handmaidens.”[72] As a judicial nominee in 2017, Barrett's affiliation with People of Praise did not come up during the confirmation process, however her religious faith was notably questioned by some members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:17 PM   #93
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Are you calling Catholicism a "fringe church"?

See, and here's an example of a question that I think is disingenuous. There's no way NobodyHere thinks that's what SI was saying. It's trollish nonsense.

I mean, if he really thinks that's what SI was saying, then he's a moron who can't parse simple sentence structures. Since I don't think that, then he must be trolling.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:21 PM   #94
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Not really a church, but more of a community of faith called the People of Praise. Many members are Catholic, but it isn't substitute for the Catholic church. A gross simplification is that it's a mix of Catholicism and charismatic traditions.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:27 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by larrymcg421 View Post
See, and here's an example of a question that I think is disingenuous. There's no way NobodyHere thinks that's what SI was saying. It's trollish nonsense.

I mean, if he really thinks that's what SI was saying, then he's a moron who can't parse simple sentence structures. Since I don't think that, then he must be trolling.



Maybe instead of assuming one's intentions you should just ask the person's belief is.

You're going to have to explain to me with your superior intellect how I should not have inferred SI's response implies that the Catholic Church is a "fringe church" because I'm apparently a moron.

By the way, do the people that object to Barret being a judge based on her religion plan on voting for Biden?
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:31 PM   #96
ISiddiqui
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Especially after posts 92 and 94, you are just doubling down on the troll

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Old 09-20-2020, 09:35 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
Especially after posts 92 and 94, you are just doubling down on the troll

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I don't see posts listed by number, which ones are your referring to?
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:42 PM   #98
sterlingice
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Are you calling Catholicism a "fringe church"?

Yes, Catholicism. One of the oldest, largest, and most well known religions in the world is a fringe church?

(I guess that makes my denomination of 70-odd million, which was founded a mere 500 years ago when a guy nailed 95 complaints to their door, a tiny cult)

SI
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:43 PM   #99
sterlingice
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You're going to have to explain to me with your superior intellect how I should not have inferred SI's response implies that the Catholic Church is a "fringe church" because I'm apparently a moron.

You said it, not me.

But, c'mon.

SI
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:46 PM   #100
NobodyHere
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Originally Posted by sterlingice View Post
Yes, Catholicism. One of the oldest, largest, and most well known religions in the world is a fringe church?

(I guess that makes my denomination of 70-odd million, which was founded a mere 500 years ago when a guy nailed 95 complaints to their door, a tiny cult)

SI

So what were you referring to?
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