What team should the Big 10 add?

[Kodos]

It seems like 12 teams is the way to go. I'd say Notre Dame, but they obviously will never join because their collective ego wouldn't fit in the league. So who should we get instead?

And what should the Big 10 be renamed?

[Anthony]

i wish they'd get the St. John's University Red Storm, cuz it sucks playing college football games without my alma mater.

[st.cronin]

Temple

[vtbub]

ND or Pitt

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by vtbub

ND or Pitt

Yes. These are the only logical choices I think.

[scooper]

What about West Virginia?

[WSUCougar]

Pitt, WV, or Louisville.

Or how about Iowa State?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Yes. These are the only logical choices I think.

BC is logical for the ACC?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Samdari

BC is logical for the ACC?

Who mentioned BC or the ACC? We're talking Big 10 here.

[Blade6119]

TCU

[WSUCougar]

And would it still be called the "Big 10" despite having twelve teams? I mean, 11 is one thing, but 12...

[ScottVib]

Missouri

[ScottVib]

I've heard that Big Ten bylaws state any added team must come from a stat currently connected to the rest of the league, leaving these options as states of origin:

North Dakota
South Dakota
Nebraska
Missouri
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Illinois
Kentucky
Indiana
Michigan
Ohio
West Virginia
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
Delaware
Maryland
New York

[st.cronin]

Why isn't this a poll? MORE POLLS, KODOS!!!!!!

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Samdari

BC is logical for the ACC?

Yeah. They are on the Atlantic Coast and Boston is a Top Ten TV market. Money is logicial.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Why isn't this a poll? MORE POLLS, KODOS!!!!!!

Too open-ended for a poll. I've started 2 others today. That should be enough!

[Klinglerware]

None.

I don't see too many schools that the Big 10 could add that would not dilute the overall product. Remember, the Big 10 is also an academic consortium. So not only must an invited school be a strong revenue sport performer plus be in an adjacent state to the current geographical footprint, it must also fit the academic profile of the Big 10 membership (i.e., it must have strong graduate school/academic research programs).

Notre Dame makes the most sense athletically, and has a strong undergraduate reputation. One issue against ND is that ND's graduate offerings are not as extensive as other Big 10 schools (though, since ND apparently has a standing offer, the Big 10 has already overlooked this). It is also very unlikely that ND will budge as long as it can keep it's TV contract and favorable position in the BCS alliance as an independent.

Missouri and Rutgers seem to be the schools that most fit the Big 10 research factory ideal (though Rutgers' academic reputation has slid a bit since the 90s). However, athletic performance has traditionally been shaky...

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Who mentioned BC or the ACC? We're talking Big 10 here.

I am merely pointing out that we need not only consider candidates that make sense - as other conferences have illustrated in the past.

[vex]

Pitt. or WV.

[cartman]

Back before the formation of the Big 12, there was talk of Texas moving to the Big 10. So I don't think the bordering state bylaw is set in stone.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Back before the formation of the Big 12, there was talk of Texas moving to the Big 10. So I don't think the bordering state bylaw is set in stone.

Really? I remember some talk many years ago of the Pac-10 expanding and discussing adding Texas and Colorado, but I don't remember hearing Texas in connection with the Big-10.

[Swaggs]

I would guess that Notre Dame, Missouri, and Pittsburgh would be the top 3 choices, but realistically, only Notre Dame would be worth it for them.

At a certain point, adding teams doesn't necessarily add money to a conference and you have to balance whether adding a conference championship game (and its payout) are worth splitting the pie with another team. I have read that the ACC teams last season with 11 teams, made less per team than they did the year before when they had 9 teams. I haven't seen any figures on what adding BC as its 12th team and holding the ACC title game have done for them this year.

I had been hoping that the Big East would go to a 12-team conference, so that they could also have a championship, but the more I think about it, the only real benefit for a conference like the BE to add a team would be to weaken other conferences so they have less of a claim on that 6th BCS spot.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I had been hoping that the Big East would go to a 12-team conference, so that they could also have a championship, but the more I think about it, the only real benefit for a conference like the BE to add a team would be to weaken other conferences so they have less of a claim on that 6th BCS spot.

Not only that, but it wouldn't hurt the BE to add a ninth-member since it would balance the conference schedule (4 home & 4 way), plus make OOC scheduling easier when they go to 12 game schedules.

Pitt might make sense for the Big 10 (though I've heard grumblings about academic stature being an impediment), but probably won't score an invite so long as JoePa wields influence at PSU--I think that his attitude is that it isn't in PSU's interests to cultivate an in-state rival (it would hurt recruiting, etc).

[korme]

Add Ohio U. They have a good rep academically and have been ok in the MAC, in a few years they would get better recruits if they were to join the Big 10

[Solecismic]

I've looked at this from many angles over the last few years. The Big Ten is only going to accept what's considered a "national" university, meaning it can draw from all over the country. It also has academic minimum standards, which does eliminate a few good schools. Any school not in the top 100 academically just won't be considered. I know that's snobby, but that's just the way they see it and it's not going to change.

And then there are geographic considerations, which means a school that's otherwise perfect (Virginia, for example, which would never consider leaving the ACC anyway) wouldn't be a good choice.

There are only five candidates:

1. Notre Dame. The obvious choice. They'd be an asset academically. They draw nationally on television, yet are centrally located within the conference. They've been offered a spot many times, but are convinced they'd lose money on the deal. They already have several established rivalries within the conference.

2. Pittsburgh. Another excellent academic institution. It would strengthen a major media market and increase the conference profile in the east. It would be a built-in rival for Penn State. On the negative side, travel from the western members of the conference would get a little obnoxious. For anything other than the major sports, you'd have to alter schedules to account for a Penn State/Pitt road trip.

The other three schools are from the Big 12, and are long shots for an invitation solely because there's little reason for them to consider switching, and it isn't a good idea to start a bidding war between top conferences (what the ACC did was only possible because the Big East just wasn't strong enough, top-to-bottom, in football).

3. Iowa State. Just a great university and a built-in rival for Iowa and the rest of the western schools. I could see this happening, but only if the Big 12 already had a replacement of similar caliber and wanted to expand westward (like Colorado State).

4. Missouri. Brings in the KC and St. Louis media markets. This would be very difficult to justify from a travel perspective, and I don't see it even being explored without touching off a conference war.

5. Nebraska. Might as well rip the heart out of the Big 12. This isn't going to happen.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Pittsburgh. It would strengthen a major media market

Where?

[Desnudo]

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

[Neuqua]

The Northern Illinois University!

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

Minnesota.

[dacman]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

1. Notre Dame. The obvious choice. They'd be an asset academically. They draw nationally on television, yet are centrally located within the conference. They've been offered a spot many times, but are convinced they'd lose money on the deal. They already have several established rivalries within the conference.

Football-wise, it will never make sense for ND to join any conference until and unless they can do better from the conference TV deal than they can on their own. I'd think it would take either a whopping conference TV deal or ND getting major special treatment for that to happen.

When you take football out of the equation, you have to convince the Irish to leave the Big East, which is actually an excellent fit for us in terms of institutional character -- a number of modest-sized Catholic universities. We've more in common with the Big East than with the Big Televen there, as Northwestern is currently the only private school in that conference, the rest are state megaschools. (I'm not sure how much we have in common athletically, though, outside of basketball -- we're big fish in a small pond in e.g. women's soccer and women's volleyball, but I don't really follow most sports well enough to know where or how well power is concentrated in particular conferences.)

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

Each school in the conference brings something to the table in either Football or Basketball. A testament to just how strong from top to bottom the Big Ten really is...

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

The smallest school (and the only private one) in the conference -- Northwestern.

Edit: Not a serious suggestion, but they're the only school that doesn't seem to fit in with the rest in the conference. Even considering that, NU has been solid in football of late, so it's hard to suggest they're not pulling their weight.

[st.cronin]

I thought Purdue was a private university?

[dacman]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I thought Purdue was a private university?

You thought wrong. Common mistake, though.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Nope. Purdue is the other major Indiana state university. It's a land grant school. Note that there are a couple of joint IU/PU campuses in the state, in Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by dacman

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

Who are they?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by dacman

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

Louisville?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by dacman

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

Cincinnati? I didn't mention them because of the academic question, but it would make sense.

[dacman]

cartman's the winner.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Where?

Zanesville, Ohio, of course. It may be the nation's smallest independent media market, but it has the pulse of America, and that's what this is all about.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Zanesville, Ohio, of course. It may be the nation's smallest independent media market, but it has the pulse of America, and that's what this is all about.

I think the point is that Pittsburgh brings little in the way of media market that Penn State does not already provide the Big 10.

[Daimyo]

Supposedly there were rumors of NU getting dropped from the Big Ten back before we made the Rose Bowl 10 years back. Since then we've done pretty well in football and have actually become somewhat respectable in basketball enough that we don't need to rely purely on academics to stick around. We don't really fit with the rest of the schools, but being middle of the road athletically and top tier academically should be enough to keep us around I'd hope.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by dacman

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

Go back and read post #7 of this thread.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think the point is that Pittsburgh brings little in the way of media market that Penn State does not already provide the Big 10.

That's why I used the word strengthen rather than bring in. State College is more part of the Harrisburg market, though it's really just a central location for the entire state.

Pitt and Penn State are more than twice as far apart as Michigan and Michigan State. It makes sense geographically.

Coug mentioned Louisville first, which is why I didn't guess that. They're a solid choice from a strength of program perspective. But, again, academically, I don't see it happening unless the Big Ten makes a shift. Which is not to endorse that policy, just to look at the hard numbers.

To look at the MAC from a a policy of abandoning the non-consideration of regional colleges, Miami (of Ohio) and Ohio U. are considered by far the strongest academic institutions. Miami would even be an asset by that measure. They are just too small - it would take too long to bring them up to competition level.

[Swaggs]

Does anyone have figures on how much money a conference championship brings in?

[kcchief19]

Missouri was in serious negotiations about joining the Big 10 back around 1994 when the Big XII was being formed. I was on campus in school there at the time, and the scuttlebutt was the administration and academic side were all for it but the athletic department was on the fence.

Eventually, talks apparently broke down because Missouri's administration couldn't make certain financial guarantees to the Big 10 regarding athletic budgets and amazingly enough academic research. It's a little known fact, but the Big 10 schools are tied together more than just athletically -- they share research tools and resources and expect each member university to main certain levels of funding for certain types of research. What exactly that is I don't know.

Notre Dame makes the most sense, but it will never happen. Notre Dame won't join in a conference in football -- there is simply too much money at stake. I have no doubt that Notre Dame would jump at the chance of joining the Big 10 for every sport but football.

Since no conference alignment decisions are now made without TV markets in consideration, I think the only choices that make remote sense are Pittsburgh and Missouri. Missouri brings both Kansas City and St. Louis, where Pitt just enhances the Pittsburgh market. Iowa State doesn't bring a thing the Big 10 doesn't already have.

I don't know if Missouri would even be interested. I think there is a certain sense of satisfaction with where they are at. I'm not a Big 10 fan and I wasn't in favor of going to the Big 10 back in 1994, but I would be now. On a local level, it would actually hurt Kansas City financially because were are currently getting the Big XII title game every year or two and will likely be the every other year host at minimum of the Big XII basketball tourney. We wouldn't get that in the Big 10.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Eventually, talks apparently broke down because Missouri's administration couldn't make certain financial guarantees to the Big 10 regarding athletic budgets and amazingly enough academic research. It's a little known fact, but the Big 10 schools are tied together more than just athletically -- they share research tools and resources and expect each member university to main certain levels of funding for certain types of research.

Yes, a school's ability to contribute resources to the Big 10s academic consortium is a important consideration for membership. Interestingly enough, if Notre Dame ever were to join the Big 10, it would be the only school that is not a member of the AAU (Association of American Universities)--another consortium of major research universities. That is the only weakness of ND in the eyes of the Big 10--the focus on undergraduates and the relative weakness of graduate and professional programs does limit ND's research resources and will make it difficult for ND to participate in reciprocal resource sharing with other Big 10 schools.

[Galaxy]

Would be cool if University of Buffalo could upgrade it facilities, and make a run at the Big Ten.

[Neuqua]

They haven't done anything in the MAC even yet.