WW CLVIII - The Princess Bride Returns (Game Over: Wolves Win!!!)

[JAG]

I will say I left no hints or anything for people to find either. This is the first time I've had a full seer role and I was a bit concerned since sometimes I can be a night kill target. I tried to play it as I usually do when I'm vanilla.

It might have been better to cut Jackal off before lynch deadline as I was pretty sure DT was vanilla as he was claiming, but I was concerned that would be too chaotic and wanted to be sure I could get another scan and preserve my self-protect another night.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Danny

Jg
Ah, given the info we have I think miracle max is likely not in the game

Yeah, I'm concerned that's the case too, especially since it's functuonally similar to Fezzik's role. You should have a pretty decent idea then to thwart that fake reveal if so.

[Narcizo]

Sorry guys. We're leaving for the country soon. As I stated in the sign-up I have no internet connection so I'll be gone till Sunday.

Vote Jackal

9 times out of 10 it's the likliest reason that's true.

[Lathum]

I never believed Jackals reveal and said as much.

VOTE JACKAL

The thing is I thought Danny was the seer. I am very curious why Danny was so sure Jackal was a wolf?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Jg
Ah, given the info we have I think miracle max is likely not in the game

Does that mean the holocaust cloak potentialy isnt in the game either?

[JAG]

Day 1:

PackerFanatic 3 - Danny (106), Coffee Warlord (159), Chief Rum (188)
mauchow 3 - Narcizo (95), murrayyyyy (180), PackerFanatic (193)
KatyLied 2 - JAG (99), Jackal (196)
Coffee Warlord 1 - Autumn (200)
murrayyyyy 1 - Lathum (156)
DQ_Boy1000 1 - path12 (171)

Item:
Wheelbarrow - JAG (99), The Jackal (108), Danny (118), path12 (171), Narcizo (172), Autumn (179)
Iocane Powder - fontisian (102), Lathum (154), Coffee Warlord (159), DaddyTorgo (167), murrayyyyy (180), PackerFanatic (183), Chief Rum (186)


Danny unvotes Packer (2)
Narcizo unvotes mauchow (2), votes Coffee Warlord (2)
fontisian votes KatyLied (3)
Chief Rum unvotes Packer (1), votes mauchow (3)
DT votes Lathum (1)
DT unvotes Lathum (0), votes Coffee Warlord (3)
britrock votes Lathum (1), selects wheelbarrow
Chief Rum unvotes mauchow (2)
Coffee Warlord unvotes Packer (0)
mauchow votes Coffee Warlord (4), selects Iocane Powder
Narcizo unvotes Coffee Warlord (3), votes murra5y (2)
Coffee Warlord votes murra5y (3)
Chief Rum votes KatyLied (4)
murra5y unvoted mauchow (1), votes Coffee Warlord (4)
Packer unvotes mauchow (0), votes KatyLied (5)
Zinto selects wheelbarrow
Zinto votes Coffee Warlord (5)
Coffee Warlord unvotes murra5y (2), votes KatyLied (6)
mauchow unvotes Coffee Warlord (4)
Danny votes murra5y (3)
mauchow votes murra5y (4)
Zinto unvotes Coffee Warlord (3), votes KatyLied (7)
KatyLied votes Coffee Warlord (4)
JAG unvotes KatyLied (6), votes murra5y (5)
fontisian unvotes KatyLied (5), votes murra5y (6)
Coffee Warlord unvotes KatyLied (4), votes murra5y (7)

Final D1:

murra5y 7 - Lathum, Narcizo, Danny, mauchow, JAG, fontisian, Coffee Warlord (159)
KatyLied 4 - Jackal , Chief Rum, Packer, Zinto
Coffee Warlord 4 - Autumn, DT, murra5y, KatyLied
DQ_Boy1000 1 - path12 (171)
Lathum 1 - britrock

No Vote - DQ_Boy1000, Julio

Caveats: Coffee or Katy could be cunning.

[mauchow]

vote jackal

[The Jackal]

VOTE JAG

[The Jackal]

JAG is most definitely the ROUS here, using this opportunity to get me lynched. Was trying to think why a wolf would pull that move (and a normal one wouldn't), but this is the perfect opportunity for the ROUS to be valuable.

[The Jackal]

Having been the ROUS in the previous game, I remember the thought process!

[The Jackal]

I fell asleep last night before getting my scan info - it was CW btw, and he is clear.

[The Jackal]

Wait, that doesn't make sense, he would have scanned as a wolf if he was the ROUS.

[The Jackal]

So he's the cunning and the wolves realize I could potentially be saved for a few extra scans

[The Jackal]

Throwing out the cunning is ballsy, but with a COT building and no definitive timeframe on when they can kill me, it's a move I can understand

[mauchow]

I will find out in about a half hour if my auditor will be here today. That will dictate what I can contribute.

I'd love to believe jackal as he was first to reveal but it didn't feel quite right.

Now we've got conflicting information with 2 scans vs 3 scans.

I'm going to keep my vote here. My gut's telling me I'll probably stay on jackal.

[The Jackal]

Seems like Inigo is the only one who could confirm that I'm telling the truth about the N1 scan and JAG is lying

[The Jackal]

I won't have a ton of time today to contribute, having a family dinner after work. I don't expect much, JAG played the reveal well. Should be setup for a decent finish either way, just hope they don't hit on the princess assuming she's in the game

[Coffee Warlord]

Well. Huh.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So he's the cunning and the wolves realize I could potentially be saved for a few extra scans

Might as well point this out now as the wolves are going to be voting Jackal no matter what so the only people even going to be considering listening to Jackal are some villagers. Why would the cunning, who you've scanned and is therefore golden for most of the rest of the game, fake-reveal? Why not have the brutal fake-reveal instead? Bad luck on picking the seer as one of your fake-scans, Jackal.

Needless to say there's no reason for Inigo to reveal anything at this point.

[Coffee Warlord]

Day 1 Version A, 7:30pm

6 KatyLied - JAG (99), The Jackal (196), fontisian (205), Chief Rum (242), PackerFanatic (245), Coffee Warlord (252)
2 murrayyyyy - Lathum (156), Narcizo (237)
5 Coffee Warlord - Autumn (200), DaddyTorgo (217), mauchow (228), murrayyyyy (243), Zinto (251)
1 DQ_BOY1000 - path12 (171)
1 Lathum - britrock88 (221)

Day 1 Version A, 9:00pm

4 KatyLied - The Jackal (196), Chief Rum (242), PackerFanatic (245), Zinto (270)
7 murrayyyyy - Lathum (156), Narcizo (237), Danny (259), mauchow (262), JAG (277), fontisian (283), Coffee Warlord (285)
4 Coffee Warlord - Autumn (200), DaddyTorgo (217), murrayyyyy (243), KatyLied (273)
1 DQ_BOY1000 - path12 (171)
1 Lathum - britrock88 (221)

Day 2

path12 6 - Narcizo (395), Danny (451), murrayyyyy (477), DaddyTorgo (501), fontisian (522), The Jackal (555)
DQ_BOY1000 5 - JAG (340), path12 (410), mauchow (481), Zinto (488), Coffee Warlord (545)
JAG 4 - britrock88 (423), Chief Rum (465), DQ_BOY1000 (512), KatyLied (554)
britrock88 3 - Lathum (333), PackerFanatic (406), Autumn (525)

Day 2 Pre-Reveal

DQ_BOY1000 9 - JAG (340), path12 (410), mauchow (481), Zinto (488), Coffee Warlord (545), Lathum (562), brit (576), Autumn (578), Danny (584)
path12 5 - Narcizo (395), murrayyyyy (477), DaddyTorgo (501), fontisian (522), The Jackal (555),
JAG 3 - Chief Rum (465), DQ_BOY1000 (512), KatyLied (554)
britrock88 1 - PackerFanatic (406)

Day 3 Pre-Reveal

The Jackal 5 - Danny (666), murrayyyyy (755), Zinto (822), Lathum (828), mauchow (852)
DaddyTorgo 3 - Narcizo (690), DaddyTorgo (798), KatyLied (848)
Danny 2 - Chief Rum (783), The Jackal (814)
Chief Rum 3 - PackerFanatic (739), Coffee Warlord (865), fontisian (868)
Narcizo 1 - DQ_BOY1000 (681)


I think that's right, for the color coding. That's if we believe JAG. There's a couple of things from way early I wanna look at first, however. I remember something I find concerning.

This, by the way, is making me greatly suspect Katy as the cunning. I haven't analyzed entirely beyond that, but there's a couple more people who keep popping up.

[The Jackal]

Fair point, the brutal might not be in the game but you'd think a different wolf rather than the cunning would come out if they were pulling that trick.

Maybe the ROUS got the cunning ability instead of the clergyman as a ripple?

[PackerFanatic]

Jackal, you mentioned scans on nights 1 and 2 - did you do a scan last night as well?

[PackerFanatic]

I am leaning toward believing JAG, but I am curious on the scans.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I fell asleep last night before getting my scan info - it was CW btw, and he is clear.

Just saw this - I retract my question

[Coffee Warlord]

1) Mau has a pretty ugly voting record. But that has to be tempered with his actions last night. I'm not sure right now.

2) Back to 1, based on voting patterns, I think either Mau or Zinto HAS to be a wolf. Maybe both, but I'm positive one of them is.

3) Font may be worth looking into as well, though that's probably only if CR is a not a wolf. Which...

4) CR just doesn't sit well with me this game. Every time I think about him, something feels off.

[mauchow]

If a wolf counter-reveals I highly doubt they counter with a different # of scans. That also leads me to believe JAG more than Jackal.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Fair point, the brutal might not be in the game but you'd think a different wolf rather than the cunning would come out if they were pulling that trick.

Maybe the ROUS got the cunning ability instead of the clergyman as a ripple?

The sounds ridiculously pro-wolf. I'll keep it in min of you actually turn out to be the seer, but it's not enough for me to take my vote off of you.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

1) Mau has a pretty ugly voting record. But that has to be tempered with his actions last night. I'm not sure right now..

WHO has a good voting record?

YOU ping me based on voting for me.

[Coffee Warlord]

One thing.

Item votes worked the grandpa night.

The rules say it's wolf night actions that aren't available, not villager night actions. That may be deliberately vague. Or it might not be vague at all.

The only other publically known villager who would know if their power worked at night (bodyguard) is also dead.

I wonder. If the items went through...did the villager night actions as well?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by mauchow

WHO has a good voting record?

YOU ping me based on voting for me.

But was it...a sexy ping?

If people are to be believed, you're a lone unknown vote on a known villager, surrounded by theoretically known villagers. Yeah, I'm saying that's not usually good.

[Coffee Warlord]

Excuse. Not lone unknown. But close to it, which is why I keep looking between you and Zinto.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

But was it...a sexy ping?

If people are to be believed, you're a lone unknown vote on a known villager, surrounded by theoretically known villagers. Yeah, I'm saying that's not usually good.

Only a little sexy.

[mauchow]

More like a "Schwing!" /wayne's world

[Coffee Warlord]

Day 1 Version A, 7:30pm

6 KatyLied - JAG (99), The Jackal (196), fontisian (205), Chief Rum (242), PackerFanatic (245), Coffee Warlord (252)
2 murrayyyyy - Lathum (156), Narcizo (237)
5 Coffee Warlord - Autumn (200), DaddyTorgo (217), mauchow (228), murrayyyyy (243), Zinto (251)
1 DQ_BOY1000 - path12 (171)
1 Lathum - britrock88 (221)

Day 1 Version A, 9:00pm

4 KatyLied - The Jackal (196), Chief Rum (242), PackerFanatic (245), Zinto (270)
7 murrayyyyy - Lathum (156), Narcizo (237), Danny (259), mauchow (262), JAG (277), fontisian (283), Coffee Warlord (285)
4 Coffee Warlord - Autumn (200), DaddyTorgo (217), murrayyyyy (243), KatyLied (273)
1 DQ_BOY1000 - path12 (171)
1 Lathum - britrock88 (221)

Day 2

path12 6 - Narcizo (395), Danny (451), murrayyyyy (477), DaddyTorgo (501), fontisian (522), The Jackal (555)
DQ_BOY1000 5 - JAG (340), path12 (410), mauchow (481), Zinto (488), Coffee Warlord (545)
JAG 4 - britrock88 (423), Chief Rum (465), DQ_BOY1000 (512), KatyLied (554)
britrock88 3 - Lathum (333), PackerFanatic (406), Autumn (525)

Day 2 Pre-Reveal

DQ_BOY1000 9 - JAG (340), path12 (410), mauchow (481), Zinto (488), Coffee Warlord (545), Lathum (562), brit (576), Autumn (578), Danny (584)
path12 5 - Narcizo (395), murrayyyyy (477), DaddyTorgo (501), fontisian (522), The Jackal (555),
JAG 3 - Chief Rum (465), DQ_BOY1000 (512), KatyLied (554)
britrock88 1 - PackerFanatic (406)

Day 3 Pre-Reveal

The Jackal 5 - Danny (666), murrayyyyy (755), Zinto (822), Lathum (828), mauchow (852)
DaddyTorgo 3 - Narcizo (690), DaddyTorgo (798), KatyLied (848)
Danny 2 - Chief Rum (783), The Jackal (814)
Chief Rum 3 - PackerFanatic (739), Coffee Warlord (865), fontisian (868)
Narcizo 1 - DQ_BOY1000 (681)

This is the version if JAG is lying, and Jackal is the seer.

[fontisian]

Day 1 Version A, 7:30pm
5 Coffee Warlord - Autumn (200), DaddyTorgo (217), mauchow (228), murrayyyyy (243), Zinto (251)
1 DQ_BOY1000 - path12 (171)

Day 2
DQ_BOY1000 5 - JAG (340), path12 (410), mauchow (481), Zinto (488), Coffee Warlord (545)
Nice catch Coffee.

Mau and Zinto are the only likely wolves on two villager votes. I doubt they're both wolves because they're next to each other both times, but one is most likely a wolf.

I don't think Chief Rum is a wolf though, or at least not part of the main wolf faction. Putting two wolf votes on Danny with no villager votes looks like a pretty balsy move to me.

Coffee: Shouldn't the second Day 2 vote count say Day 2 post-reveal?

[fontisian]

Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

[Coffee Warlord]

Ah, good. I was hoping I didn't have to look.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm still not sure between Jackal and JAG. The fact that the item votes worked on grandpa day bothers me.

[PackerFanatic]

I could definitely see item votes being separate from any other actions. But it definitely has me thinking too.

[fontisian]

I know. If either of them had a guilty scan, I'd love lynch that person and figure out the truth without potentially killing our seer. I mean, wolf!JAG could be counting on how ridiculous a cunning claiming seer is because he's desperate to kill Westley. It's a really out there move, though.

[Coffee Warlord]

The lynched player will remain alive and no wolf action that night.

This bugs me.

The fact that a lot of people I don't necessarily trust immediately came to Mau's defense in condemning Jackal the second he called him out, and the fact that a lot of those same people immediately hopped on board JAG's side without a second thought bugs me.

[Coffee Warlord]

On the flipside, that's a lot of people who would arouse suspicion they wouldn't have otherwise had - just to discredit and hopefully have us off the seer.

On the flip flip side, we're not exactly winning here. Bodyguard is dead, if we lynch the seer today, and lose another villager to night kills (not to mention there's the chance Buttercup is convertable), we're in bad, bad shape. Wouldn't have been a bad time to make a run at it.

[fontisian]

You made me delve back into that mayhem Coffee.
fontisian unvote CR vote DT
Murra5y unvote Jackal vote Zinto
Danny unvote Jackal vote mauchow
Jackal unvote Danny vote DT
britrock vote Julio Riddols
Coffe unvote mauchow vote DT
Coffee unvote DT vote mauchow
Murra5y unvote Zinto vote mauchow
Lathum unvote Jackal vote DT
britrock unvote Julio Riddols vote Jackal
mauchow unvote Jackal vote DT
Lathum unvote DT vote mauchow
Danny unvote mau vote DT
JAG vote DT

JAG: Why did you vote for DT if you knew Jackal was lying?
britrock: What is up with your votes?

[JAG]

I really hope no one buys Jackal's desperate flailing here. Ask yourself why he would scan Coffee last night after Coffee was one of the few people who didn't want to vote Jackal yesterday.

Yesterday when I switched to DT after Narc's reveal, it was not only for the D2 reason I gave publicly, but because I knew DT had a vote on a cleared Coffee from D1. With Autumn also cleared and dead on him and Narc as well, it left DT and Jackal as the only uncleared for me on Coffee.

[mauchow]

Cw , do you believe that if jag was a wolf he'd only come back with 2 scans? Jag also doesn't have to reveal today as I don't believe that he was on the block.

[fontisian]

JAG: I meant the eleventh hour switch.

[Coffee Warlord]

JAG absolutely has to reveal today if he's the seer, to produce the necessary counter claim. You can't let a wolf claim seer and not call him on it - it's effectively as good as the seer scanning a wolf.

[JAG]

Also if I were a wolf faking a reveal, I would not have used a different amount of scans. Why make it less believable by omitting that detail? I had plenty of time to prepare a lie if that were my intention.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by mauchow

Cw , do you believe that if jag was a wolf he'd only come back with 2 scans? Jag also doesn't have to reveal today as I don't believe that he was on the block.

2 possible scenarios to answer the first question (3 actually, the 3rd being he's telling the truth).

1 - He's a wolf, the wolves didn't get a night action, so he reveals as seer as having only had 2 night actions.

2 - He's deliberately differing from Jackal on the action count, using the vagueness of that section of the rules, in an attempt to back his claim.

Or yes. 3, he's legit.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by fontisian

You made me delve back into that mayhem Coffee.
fontisian unvote CR vote DT
Murra5y unvote Jackal vote Zinto
Danny unvote Jackal vote mauchow
Jackal unvote Danny vote DT
britrock vote Julio Riddols
Coffe unvote mauchow vote DT
Coffee unvote DT vote mauchow
Murra5y unvote Zinto vote mauchow
Lathum unvote Jackal vote DT
britrock unvote Julio Riddols vote Jackal
mauchow unvote Jackal vote DT
Lathum unvote DT vote mauchow
Danny unvote mau vote DT
JAG vote DT

JAG: Why did you vote for DT if you knew Jackal was lying?
britrock: What is up with your votes?

For one, I didnt even see who Jackal had voted for. After Jackal's fake reveal, I was desperately trying to come up with a different scan choice than I had originally and was trying to pull up vote charts from previous days. For two, I was pretty sure we were just lynching a vanilla villager rather than someone who was roled.