Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[DaddyTorgo]

Fair enough.

Maybe I'm just bummed because of what CU Tiger said. He did look like he was starting to gas early though.

Maybe that's why I prefer the ground game too - because there's no ambiguity there, no room for referee decisions.

Thinking of taking BJJ when they start offering a beginner's class at my gym.

[bhlloy]

Overeem is just not a very smart fighter. Gets kicked in the face twice plodding slowly forward with his hands down, let's try that one more time. Oh, I've been knocked out. Same thing with his loss against Bigfoot where he decided standing up against the cage taking punches to the face for extended periods of time was a good idea.

Physically he's a monster (even now he's presumably not doping) but his tactics and cage awareness are just shockingly bad.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Overeem is just not a very smart fighter. Gets kicked in the face twice plodding slowly forward with his hands down, let's try that one more time. Oh, I've been knocked out. Same thing with his loss against Bigfoot where he decided standing up against the cage taking punches to the face for extended periods of time was a good idea.

Physically he's a monster (even now he's presumably not doping) but his tactics and cage awareness are just shockingly bad.

Agreed.

[molson]

That was a fun show. I hope Overeem never smartens up because watching that guy get knocked out is just about my favorite thing to watch in sports.

[DaddyTorgo]

Faber looked real good too. Dude always makes me smile.

[CU Tiger]

Agreed we started watching Faber when he was on WEC wreckage on VS...he is well past his prime but still fun to watch.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Agreed we started watching Faber when he was on WEC wreckage on VS...he is well past his prime but still fun to watch.

Yeah. He's still got great conditioning though...dude goes all out for the whole fight. I'd say for that reason he's probably still a legit contender.

[EagleFan]

Holy crap, that was one hell of a fight. Want to see Jones/Gustafson 2.

[IlliniCub]

Yeah wow! I definitely came away with more respect for both guys. I always felt Jones would cave when he came up against someone that could challenge him a bit, but he held up. Both guys showed a lot of heart.

[EagleFan]

Though I have no clue how one judge gave 4 rounds to Jones, was he not watching the fight? I think an argument could even be made that Gustafson won 3 rounds.

[PilotMan]

I have been a big fan of Gustafsson for a while now, and I think it was here or OOTP that I said end of '12 he'd get a shot. Well, it was a bit later, but he sure showed that he had every right to be there. I thought for a while that he was going to pull it off, but he just didn't have that next level.

The whole fight was great. I would love to see #2.

As for scoring I had it 48-47 Jones, but I could see a judge who favors the fighter who moves forward over the boxer who moves scoring it 49-46. It would have been great to see Jones lose, and he took so much damage! Still he may come back from this even better.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Though I have no clue how one judge gave 4 rounds to Jones, was he not watching the fight? I think an argument could even be made that Gustafson won 3 rounds.

Certainly you could argue that. I think it really comes down to how to decide how the scoring rules of MMA apply. What is more important. For example, takedowns count, but takedown defense doesn't. Submission attempts count, but not submission defense. It gets weird, and contrasting styles can really favor one more than the other, even though the fight seems more even.

In this case, Jones came forward a lot while Gustafsson used more of a stick and move strategy. Plus his wheels to keep away from Jones may have played against him, depending on what the judge deems cage aggression.

The left roundhouse kick of Jones, coupled with the elbows won the fight. He must have landed 7 roundhouses and that 4th round was rough for Gustafsson.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Certainly you could argue that. I think it really comes down to how to decide how the scoring rules of MMA apply. What is more important. For example, takedowns count, but takedown defense doesn't. Submission attempts count, but not submission defense. It gets weird, and contrasting styles can really favor one more than the other, even though the fight seems more even.

In this case, Jones came forward a lot while Gustafsson used more of a stick and move strategy. Plus his wheels to keep away from Jones may have played against him, depending on what the judge deems cage aggression.

The left roundhouse kick of Jones, coupled with the elbows won the fight. He must have landed 7 roundhouses and that 4th round was rough for Gustafsson.

The problem is that only 1 minute of the 4th round was bad for Gustafson. He hurt Jones in the 1st 4 minutes and carried the round. It's only final impression that gave him that round. If you switch those times around everyone is saying that Gustafson takes that round.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The problem is that only 1 minute of the 4th round was bad for Gustafson. He hurt Jones in the 1st 4 minutes and carried the round. It's only final impression that gave him that round. If you switch those times around everyone is saying that Gustafson takes that round.

Except that if Gus takes that damage in the first minute, there's a good chance he doesn't make it out of the round.

That being said, I have no idea how you judge damage vs control. Gus controlled the first 4 minutes and was impressive, but Jones clearly had him reeling at the end whereas none of the damage Gus did ever had Jones in real danger.

If I'm making the call I'm booking the rematch right now. I think it's deserved and I think it's gonna make a ton of money.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

If I'm making the call I'm booking the rematch right now. I think it's deserved and I think it's gonna make a ton of money.

DingDingDing!

So your Dana, and options are a rematch with your biggest star and the fighter who gave him all he could handle and nearly beat him. It's all the MMA world is talking about the week after. You have name recognition and buzz and the potential for big money. Your division has been getting wiped out by this kid and you are struggling to find big name guys for him to fight.

Or you go with Texiera. A guy on a big roll, but no previous title experience. He has certainly earned it with some impressive fights and extremely heavy hands. He has virtually no name recognition.

I think it's a no-brainer and he has already set the precedent of this in the past. Specifically going with money fights over guys who have earned it (i.e. see Diaz-St.Pierre).

[Chief Rum]

Saturday night after the fight, I predicted Dana would go with Jones-Gustaffson II at the Super Bowl UFC, whichever one that is, and that he would put it in New Jersey, close to where the Super Bowl will be played.

[PilotMan]

And we were wrong.

Jon Jones to defend UFC title against Glover Teixeira - ESPN

However CR was right on with the timeline.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, I read an article the other day that suggested they would go in another direction. This fits with that.

[EagleFan]

Anyone watching TUF? I think the worst thing for Rousey right now seems to be exposure. She acts like she's some gangbangers byach. Already started getting sick of her before this but this is just the final nail in the coffin. Much more of a Tate fan at this point.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Anyone watching TUF? I think the worst thing for Rousey right now seems to be exposure. She acts like she's some gangbangers byach. Already started getting sick of her before this but this is just the final nail in the coffin. Much more of a Tate fan at this point.

Her act was getting old with me before TUF, she really is a POS as a person, or at least comes across that way. Not even watching anymore.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Anyone watching TUF? I think the worst thing for Rousey right now seems to be exposure. She acts like she's some gangbangers byach. Already started getting sick of her before this but this is just the final nail in the coffin. Much more of a Tate fan at this point.

Yeah - wonder if there'll be some redemption for her at some point in this season, cuz she is definitely coming across like the villain right now. Then again - that could be selective editing...

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - wonder if there'll be some redemption for her at some point in this season, cuz she is definitely coming across like the villain right now. Then again - that could be selective editing...

Based on what I saw from her in the preview program before her last fight I don't think there needs to be much selective editing to make her look like that.

[EagleFan]

On a different note, I know she can seriously swing from decent looking to not so decent looking but still with that said; Tate is MUCH hotter than Rousey.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - Tate is definitely turning my head these days. She seems like she has pretty big swings though, like you said EF.

[EagleFan]

On a show related note. Shame about the fight results this week, though I sort of expected it.

[EagleFan]

That prelim between Boetsch and Dollaway highlighted the problems wwith judges' scoring. How can 2 judges give every round to one fighter and the other judge give every round to the other fighter?

[EagleFan]

Wow, this is a hell of a fight. Sanchez is busted up bad too.

[PilotMan]

Melendez and Sanchez just killed the Bonnar/Griffin fight. Just killed it. Made it look like pitter pat.

[PilotMan]

Gilbert is such a stud. Can't believe he didn't beat Henderson.

[PilotMan]

I know Nelson is a fan favorite, but I can't believe that Zuffa resigned him to the contract they did. He looks so far past his prime anymore.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I know Nelson is a fan favorite, but I can't believe that Zuffa resigned him to the contract they did. He looks so far past his prime anymore.

I don't know how he is a fan favorite to be honest.

[EagleFan]

Dos Santos enters to the Rocky theme, nice touch.

[PilotMan]

Cain was nearly a 2-1 fav tonight. That's pretty huge all things considered.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Dos Santos enters to the Rocky theme, nice touch.

Well he's got the face to match now. Maybe it wasn't the best choice after all.

[PilotMan]

I think it's safe to say that Cain, after nearly 50 min of continuous ass whipping of the #2, is the best heavyweight in probably UFC history.

[EagleFan]

Sucks that it ended by him slamming his face on the mat.

Was hoping for a flash knockout by Junior near the end.

[EagleFan]

Nice response by Junior at the end when asked what happened...

"He beat me up."

[PilotMan]

Don't know if you listened to Dana in the after interviews, but it was his opinion (and mine) that it probably should have been stopped in the third when Junior was out on his feet against the cage. He took such a massive amount of damage it wasn't funny. Cain was taking such a measured approach and showing such respect for him, even hurt, that he just wasn't going to put him away.

As for him spiking himself? Well, just shows you how bad a state he was really in. I mean, I was shocked that the Dr.s didn't stop the fight between the cut and the eye that was shut. Especially when the blood was so clearly going in his eyes and he couldn't see well. It was just brutal. Makes me think that the Dr.s are under a lot of pressure from somewhere, because I've seen the fights stopped for much, much less.

[PilotMan]

I wasn't sure it was even possible, but Chandler-Alvarez II exceeded expectations. Some guys are just made to fight each other. Bellator has a gold mine when they fight each other.

[Suicane75]

I dunno if I'd call it a gold mine. Even if they do a 3rd fight on PPV I doubt it does much more than 100k.

[Dutch]

Pilotman,

Right now, the doctor's are getting pressure from the UFC, the fans who paid to watch, and the fighters (particularly the losing fighters) who are desperate to keep going. So the doctors are only going to stop if the fighter is defenseless. Being at a severe disadvantage has never been a cause to stop the fight or else we wouldn't see half the fights fought to completion once you realize one dude was overpowering the other.

However, that being said, within 10 years, people will see the $$$ in suing the UFC and many of these same losing fighters will be back to sue for damages. No question about it after watching the money grabbing debacle happening in the NFL right now.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Mike D

However, that being said, within 10 years, people will see the $$$ in suing the UFC and many of these same losing fighters will be back to sue for damages. No question about it after watching the money grabbing debacle happening in the NFL right now.

You know you could be right, but I'm guessing that the contracts that the fighters sign have some pretty obvious outs for the UFC. At least, their lawyers should have them in there if they don't. That'll be the difference. The NFL players made a case that the damage was known and kept from them. I'd say that the fighters in the UFC have that info up front right now.

As far as the doc's go, hell yeah, they are under pressure, but like the judges, they have to be impartial to the company in order to do their work effectively. It's not their job to worry about the business.

[EagleFan]

That Lawler/MacDonald fight was good. So far not a bad show.

[EagleFan]

I don't think this is a good weight class for Sonnen. Could be wrong though.

[EagleFan]

That was totally one sided. Sonnen should go back to Middleweight.

[EagleFan]

Hendricks has some serious power. Hope this goes at least into the 5th as it could be interesting.

[EagleFan]

GSP may have been saved this round by Hendricks' mouthpiece falling out.

[EagleFan]

I think Hendricks had his chances but not sure that he has the conditioning if this goes much farther.

[kingfc22]

GSP seems like he has more left in the gas tank. Well, at least for most of that round.

[EagleFan]

So far I would say 2 rounds to 1 in favor of Hendricks.