The Trump Presidency – 2016

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump knows every Greek person in the U.S.

Trump and Zeus, who is a very fine God, are often found golfing together at the Trump mount Olympus Gold Club. Apollo and Hermes often join them.

[RainMaker]

Iran is currently bombing us in Iraq. Al Asad base is being hit the most it seems.

[stevew]

Great

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Iran is currently bombing us in Iraq. Al Asad base is being hit the most it seems.

Just a little bit of noise

[RainMaker]

If these are ballistic and not just rockets, that's bad news.

[NobodyHere]

It's a good thing I've already failed miserably in the military. I won't be drafted.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

What a crazy election, one for the books. Here are my hopes & predictions for his presidency

Hopes:

(1) Don’t start a nuclear war
(2) Secure the borders and reform immigration (somehow)
(3) Greatly reduce ISIL, resolve the Syrian war
(4) Strengthen our relationships with friends
(5) Reduce our dependence on global oil, encourage alternate fuels
(6) Balance the budget and reduce the deficit
(7) Grow the economy & stock market

Predictions:

TBD

I’ve been on the losing side before and TBH this one hurts a lot. But this is our democratic process in action.

Welcome to a brave new world. It will be an interesting 4 years.

I do really hope Trump "makes America great again".

hey so how’s he doing?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

hey so how’s he doing?

Welcome back!

And 7 is looking good I guess

[kingfc22]

What's the fucking clown going to do now

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

What's the fucking clown going to do now

Some reports that we have plans in the air already. Iran is telling countries that any attacks that originate from their boarders will make them a target for retaliation as well.

Iran seems to be trying to isolate our forces as much as possible and fracture our support in the middle east.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Welcome back!

And 7 is looking good I guess

Thanks, bud.

And hey, it’s something.

[RainMaker]

Our military is a mess but if this is true, there are going to be a lot of dead Irani pilots. This is one area that the US does not fuck around.

BREAKING: Iranian fighter jets have taken off from air bases in Iran

— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) January 8, 2020

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Our military is a mess but if this is true, there are going to be a lot of dead Irani pilots. This is one area that the US does not fuck around.

BREAKING: Iranian fighter jets have taken off from air bases in Iran

— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) January 8, 2020

Curious, but in what ways are you determining that the military is a mess?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Curious, but in what ways are you determining that the military is a mess?

Bunch of unfilled positions at the top of the military. Decades of strategic folly. A mush brained moron in charge of the whole thing.

What can anyone have seen from our military in the past 50-60 years to give them confidence going forward?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bunch of unfilled positions at the top of the military. Decades of strategic folly. A mush brained moron in charge of the whole thing.

What can anyone have seen from our military in the past 50-60 years to give them confidence going forward?

Lol... that's what your basing this off of? I mean actual military stuff, not political.

[Galaril]

So far it sounds like the Iraqis have the casualties at the two bases hit. Who the hell would want to be put ally going forward.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bunch of unfilled positions at the top of the military. Decades of strategic folly. A mush brained moron in charge of the whole thing.

What can anyone have seen from our military in the past 50-60 years to give them confidence going forward?

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Lol... that's what your basing this off of? I mean actual military stuff, not political.

Yeah, I don't get this either. You can almost always trace the root of military blunders to politicians. When you stay the fuck out of the way and let competent military leaders do what they get paid to do and get out we are pretty effective. See Desert Storm 1.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Lol... that's what your basing this off of? I mean actual military stuff, not political.

Well we have cool military stuff and well-trained soldiers. We also haven't won a war in like 70 years.

Political leaders are the one's who command the military. And results matter.

[Jughead Spock]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

When you stay the fuck out of the way and let competent military leaders do what they get paid to do and get out we are pretty effective. See Desert Storm 1.

What would make anyone think that the current administration would do that?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

What would make anyone think that the current administration would do that?

Well, therein lies the problem doesn't it. Sadly, I have no faith in this administration to do anything but fuck this up at epic levels.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Yeah, I don't get this either. You can almost always trace the root of military blunders to politicians. When you stay the fuck out of the way and let competent military leaders do what they get paid to do and get out we are pretty effective. See Desert Storm 1.

What competent military leadership? Tommy Franks was found to be a buffoon way in over his head. I think he spends his time now bilking charities set up for wounded vets he sent into battle.

It wasn't politicians who botched Tora Bora. It was Petraeus who came up with the failed COIN plan in Afghanistan (I believe this war around the time he was passing classified info to his fuck buddy).

Sanchez was just a disaster which is well-documented. Casey was clueless and let the mess exacerbate itself because he had no idea how to handle the insurgency.

With no performance departures or accountability of any kind as you climb the ranks, you just end up with a bunch of mediocre generals handling conflicts they are not equipped to deal with.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What competent military leadership? Tommy Franks was found to be a buffoon way in over his head. I think he spends his time now bilking charities set up for wounded vets he sent into battle.

It wasn't politicians who botched Tora Bora. It was Petraeus who came up with the failed COIN plan in Afghanistan (I believe this war around the time he was passing classified info to his fuck buddy).

Sanchez was just a disaster which is well-documented. Casey was clueless and let the mess exacerbate itself because he had no idea how to handle the insurgency.

With no performance departures or accountability of any kind as you climb the ranks, you just end up with a bunch of mediocre generals handling conflicts they are not equipped to deal with.

Sanchez moved with 1st AD onto the post I was stationed at in Germany during the Summer of '01 and was post commander there during 9/11 until I left roughly a year later. My limited interaction with him was on 9/11 and was a complete shitshow that nearly resulted in a soldier getting run over, shots nearly being fired at his caravan by gate guards, and a lot of screaming and yelling.

No one I spoke to that knew him really cared much for him or respected him. Our Brigade Commander could not stand him. I did have some interactions with his Sergeant Major who was as big of a jackass as you could find.

Between the incident on 9/11 and the decisions he made about how things operated on post after his arrival I'm not the least bit surprised of what happened later in his career.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well we have cool military stuff and well-trained soldiers. We also haven't won a war in like 70 years.

Political leaders are the one's who command the military. And results matter.

We win the battles part, I won't say we lose but we also don't win the war parts, largely because we've been fighting against well funded proxies instead of the actual opponent, and that just saps morale in both the military & the domestic population long term.

I didn't want Trump to be the one to do it, don't trust him at all in his response (can we please go after their nuclear sites or Hormuz instead of "cultural" sites), but if this truly does get Iran to outwardly attack us under their name instead of proxies like the Ayatollah allegedly said and they apparently did tonight that's a win long term. Unfortunately you'll still have Saudi Arabia & Russia funding some enemies, but if they're smart they'll STFU & at least wait until Trump finds a different shiny new toy to focus on to start sowing discord.

[CrimsonFox]

"we don't want a war with iran but we're prepared to finish one"

put your dick away, dicks

[BishopMVP]

I've never heard good things about Sanchez. Petraeus was very smart, perhaps not as smart as he thought he was, but I don't think the larger structural issues were on him. Regardless, I think even Rainmaker is acknowledging that we'll dominate in any air battle or conventional military fight, due to better technology alone (though I also think we have better training at those elite levels). You start trying to invade Iran or whatever? Yikes. But tit for tat air strikes? Sure, LFG you idiots.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

hey so how’s he doing?

My assessment

(1) Don’t start a nuclear war

TBD

(2) Secure the borders and reform immigration (somehow)

Pretty good in securing borders. Holistic immigration reform not being done, its just very targeted and not as effective IMO. 6 or 7/10

(3) Greatly reduce ISIL, resolve the Syrian war

He doesn't get all the credit but pretty good on ISIL. Syria is still TBD but its getting there. 8/10

(4) Strengthen our relationships with friends

Poor other than Israel and maybe frenemy Saudi Arabia. Russia doesn't count. 3/10

(5) Reduce our dependence on global oil, encourage alternate fuels

He doesn't get all the credit because a lot was already in place before 2016 but he hasn't done much to screw it up. So I'd give him a 7/10

(6) Balance the budget and reduce the deficit

Total failure. 0/10

(7) Grow the economy & stock market

Economy is not growing as much as he said but I'll take the 2-3% anyday. Stock market is doing wonders so far. 9/10 (but will reduce if the stock market crashes)

Probably should also add

(8) North Korea

I had high hopes that Trump could do a breakthrough with the crazy kid. All is not lost but probably not going to happen. I'll give him some credit for trying. 3/10

(9) China

This one is still up in the air. He gets a lot of credit in trying and I'm still not sure what's in the suppose Phase 1 deal. So I'll say TBD



What is your assessment?

[Edward64]

Timely and foreshadowing (?) if not photoshopped.

Incredible 'red devil horns' sunrise photos captured during rare solar eclipse mirage over the ocean

THESE incredible images appear to show giant devil horns rising over the Persian Gulf during a solar eclipse.

A photographer waited in just the right place to snap the rare spectacle as the sun was partially blocked by the moon at dawn.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I've never heard good things about Sanchez. Petraeus was very smart, perhaps not as smart as he thought he was, but I don't think the larger structural issues were on him. Regardless, I think even Rainmaker is acknowledging that we'll dominate in any air battle or conventional military fight, due to better technology alone (though I also think we have better training at those elite levels). You start trying to invade Iran or whatever? Yikes. But tit for tat air strikes? Sure, LFG you idiots.

Yeah, land invasion of Iran won't work nor can I forsee a necessity with all the nice toys we have. Closest is another buildup in Iraq but that brings a host of other issues.

[Edward64]

Not good. BBC is reporting just with headlines that a Ukrainian plane crashed in Iran.

I doubt it has anything to do with the latest escalation but not a good week for the region.

Ukrainian passenger plane crashes in Iran - BBC News

A Ukrainian plane has crashed in Iran, with 180 people on board, according to local media.

[JPhillips]

Iran seems to be sending signals that they'll stop if the U.S. stops. With no Americans killed, that's the obvious choice, but who knows which Fox host Trump will listen to, Hannity or Carlson?

[bronconick]

Got to wait until tomorrow to address the people because he starts sundowning with the sunset and speaking from the Oval Office is different from frothing at the mouth at a MAGA rally.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Iran seems to be sending signals that they'll stop if the U.S. stops. With no Americans killed, that's the obvious choice, but who knows which Fox host Trump will listen to, Hannity or Carlson?

Stop what, openly attacking us incompetently & go back to kinda successfully fighting us via proxy? I agree that the lack of US casualties gives Trump the out if he wants it, but what part of anything he's ever done gives you the impression Trump will agree to a ceasefire if someone else threw the last punch, even if it was a miss? I will say I'm pretty surprised we haven't responded yet if it's been easily identifiable rockets shot from the Iranian military in Iranian territory vs US bases. (EDIT - but yes, maybe he's just asleep right now & we'll get the response when he wakes up.)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well we have cool military stuff and well-trained soldiers. We also haven't won a war in like 70 years.

Political leaders are the one's who command the military. And results matter.

Except you didn't say the politicians are a mess, you said the military is a mess. Which makes me question your sanity (or blind devotion to some Interwebz warz point you're too proud to back down from).

The military is not a mess. It's pretty much the most powerful fighting force ever constructed. Not only the best equipped and trained but also with a frightening ability to project its power over thousands of miles.

As for wars won, I think it's rather daft way to measure military might, but if you want to go that route, the war portions of Desert Storm, the Iraq War and Afghanistan were all smashing successes, militarily. It was the afterwards occupational part which failed-- largely again because of politicians.

[PilotMan]

You know, if roles were reversed, I think the US would be doing almost everything that Iran currently is. The similarities and predictability of behavior in all this seems obvious to me.

Look no further than the response to the Patriots loss this weekend. We (as in if the US was Iran) would be very ready to cheer against the big bully and every slight they make against us. We're proud enough to defend and demand respect on the global stage, whatever form that takes.

Shurg, I guess I'm just looking at all this through a completely different lens and it all seems incredibly overblown.

[PilotMan]

I will say that an entire generation has been damaged by 20 years of armed conflict. The human body just isn't designed to handle a constant stream of adrenaline. You don't need to look far domestically to see that result.

[CrimsonFox]

welp Trump chickening out of giving a TV address...
guess his advisers found him in a corner writing "I am Jesus" 100 times on the walls.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Except you didn't say the politicians are a mess, you said the military is a mess. Which makes me question your sanity (or blind devotion to some Interwebz warz point you're too proud to back down from).

The military is not a mess. It's pretty much the most powerful fighting force ever constructed. Not only the best equipped and trained but also with a frightening ability to project its power over thousands of miles.

As for wars won, I think it's rat her daft way to measure military might, but if you want to go that route, the war portions of Desert Storm, the Iraq War and Afghanistan were all smashing successes, militarily. It was the afterwards occupational part which failed-- largely again because of politicians.

Operation Desert Storm led to the emergence of Al-Qaeda which ended up killing over 3,000 people on US soil. Not to mention the spark that launched us into two failed military campaigns that have cost countless lives and money.

We're 18 years into Afghanistan and practically nothing has changed. It's still a war torn region that the Taliban largely controls.

Iraq was an utter disaster that has destabilized the region and put the country in-between Iran and ISIS. We've been there almost 2 decades and it's got us on the cusp of another big war.

And if we're defining "military success" by body count or whatever, might as well congratulate Germany on their overwhelming victory in World War 2. The occupation part is a huge element of war. Arguably the most important part. There's more to war than killing people and blowing up buildings in countries that can't fight back.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Stop what, openly attacking us incompetently

Yes

& go back to kinda successfully fighting us via proxy?

Yes

I agree that the lack of US casualties gives Trump the out if he wants it, but what part of anything he's ever done gives you the impression Trump will agree to a ceasefire if someone else threw the last punch, even if it was a miss? I will say I'm pretty surprised we haven't responded yet if it's been easily identifiable rockets shot from the Iranian military in Iranian territory vs US bases. (EDIT - but yes, maybe he's just asleep right now & we'll get the response when he wakes up.)

Trump is unpredictable, who knows what he'll do. I hope he will ease off until the next Iranian or Iranian sponsored "strike". I'm afraid he'll play this situation through Nov 2020 to keep his base and maybe gain some.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I've never heard good things about Sanchez. Petraeus was very smart, perhaps not as smart as he thought he was, but I don't think the larger structural issues were on him. Regardless, I think even Rainmaker is acknowledging that we'll dominate in any air battle or conventional military fight, due to better technology alone (though I also think we have better training at those elite levels). You start trying to invade Iran or whatever? Yikes. But tit for tat air strikes? Sure, LFG you idiots.

Iran's Air Force is a joke. I think it's just some old F-14 Tomcats. If they were dumb enough to challenge us in the air, it'd be target practice for our pilots. The training and technological advantage is overwhelming.

But I think Iran knows this. They don't invest in that area. They've put most of their resources toward missile technology. And that technology is pretty good. Variations of the KH-55 I think. They have the capability to do some serious damage in the region if they want.

This is why I think their "response" was more about keeping things good domestically. It doesn't appear that they were looking to rack up American casualties or destroy too much of the base. And their response after seems to be "we had to do this so we don't look like pussies at home, let's call it even". If they wanted to escalate, there are far better targets.

In full disclosure, I used to work for Raytheon and spent time in the Middle East for them. Not my finest hour.

Edit: I didn't do anything exciting for them.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Operation Desert Storm led to the emergence of Al-Qaeda which ended up killing over 3,000 people on US soil. Not to mention the spark that launched us into two failed military campaigns that have cost countless lives and money.

We're 18 years into Afghanistan and practically nothing has changed. It's still a war torn region that the Taliban largely controls.

Iraq was an utter disaster that has destabilized the region and put the country in-between Iran and ISIS. We've been there almost 2 decades and it's got us on the cusp of another big war.

And if we're defining "military success" by body count or whatever, might as well congratulate Germany on their overwhelming victory in World War 2. The occupation part is a huge element of war. Arguably the most important part. There's more to war than killing people and blowing up buildings in countries that can't fight back.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge how any of that applies to what you ACTUALLY said. You described the military as a mess. When the military was mobilized to do what it needs to do (go defeat the standing military forces of other countries), it has done quite well.

I'm okay if you want to amend your statement to saying that the combination of U.S. policy, incompetent politicans, poor intellirence, and poor decision-making regarding the occupations of defeated territories have led to the overall failure of American efforts in the region. That's an entirely defensible position-- one I would agree with. But that's not really on the military at all.

Care to try again?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We're 18 years into Afghanistan and practically nothing has changed. It's still a war torn region that the Taliban largely controls.

Except for a little thing called AQ (and OBL).

Iraq was an utter disaster that has destabilized the region and put the country in-between Iran and ISIS. We've been there almost 2 decades and it's got us on the cusp of another big war.

This I would generally agree with. A lot has changed there but not, arguably, for the better of Iraqis nor US interests.

[Lathum]

Does he have a cold. He sounds like he is gonna die.

[BYU 14]

I know his words and actions often do not match, but if he stays true to his speech, I will be impressed.

[NobodyHere]

Iran is saying the retaliation is over. If true, then I can only imagine this is a big victory for Trump and we'll be hearing about it over and over again for the next few weeks.

[GrantDawg]

I think this will be a net-win for Trump if there is no further escalation.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[ISiddiqui]

If the Iraqi Parliament is pissed off enough at us that they want us to leave, is it really a win? Maybe in the short-short term.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think this will be a net-win for Trump if there is no further escalation.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Yeah, net win for Trump if no other direct/military attacks. Big bad guy dead. Iran has 22 less missiles. No US personnel hurt. Arguably as important as OBL (probably a notch down IMO) and a story to tell over and over this year. I'll take a "slap" for our kick in their balls.

However, I'm sure there will be other proxy attacks, probably more now and more brazen.

[PilotMan]

Step 1: Talk a bunch of shit about the International Nuclear Treaty.
Step 2: Pull out of International Nuclear Treaty

Step 3: Impose Sanctions
Step 4: Opposition says "We're done complying"

Step 5: Talk more shit.
Step 6: Lose International Support
Step 7: Watch Protesters storm the Embassy, light fires and burn things.
Step 8: Kill a major military leader operating in a foreign country.
Step 9: Watch opposition say, "Now we're REALLY done complying"

Step 10: Wait for opposition to tell you where and when they will 'retaliate'.
Step 11: Watch "retaliation"
Step 12: Make a big show of saying "We're good, but we will impose more sanctions"
Step 13: Declare "Win"?



Or


Step 1: Maintain International Treaty


Quite the path to victory I guess?

[Izulde]

Yeah, this scans as a mutual off-ramping that's concealing the *real* heavy retaliation via proxy actors. This isn't over yet.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The latest on Mr. Shea

Washington Rep. Matt Shea engaged in domestic terrorism against U.S., says state House report | The Seattle Times

Sign of the times: Being labeled a domestic terrorist may be making Rep. Matt Shea more popular | The Seattle Times