Mass shooting at church in Texas

[Ben E Lou]

Early reports of 20ish fatalities.

[NobodyHere]

Good God

Ugh, sometimes people should seek help or just commit suicide.

[CrescentMoonie]

Sadly, my mouth breathing family members are already priming themselves for the shooter to be anything other than white so they can be more open in their support of the "Christian" alt-right beliefs they have.

[Ben E Lou]

Reports now indicate 27 dead, 24 wounded. It is a small church. With those numbers, and the fact that reports are that he drove away after the shooting, I have to wonder if he shot just about every person in the church.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Reports now indicate 27 dead, 24 wounded. It is a small church. With those numbers, and the fact that reports are that he drove away after the shooting, I have to wonder if he shot just about every person in the church.

Along those lines, the location and the apparent size of the church make me anticipate there being some personal connection to the site. I mean, from a practical standpoint, I'd think something utterly random would have picked a bigger target.

[Ben E Lou]

Depending on where I look, average Sunday morning attendance there is being reported anywhere from 50 to 180.

[Ben E Lou]

If this is accurate, then, yeah, pretty much everyone in the church was shot.

Witness tells @KENS5 that about half the congregation was killed during the 11:00a service today at First Baptist Church in #SutherlandSprings - east of San Antonio.

— Jason Whitely (@JasonWhitely) November 5, 2017

[RainMaker]

Assuming most of the church was from the town, that'd wipe out 3% of the town's population in minutes.

[digamma]

One of the casualties is reportedly the 14 year old daughter of the pastor. I know there will be many other stories like that.

As my friend Rich Martinez says, "Not one more."

[Eaglesfan27]

So sad

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Along those lines, the location and the apparent size of the church make me anticipate there being some personal connection to the site. I mean, from a practical standpoint, I'd think something utterly random would have picked a bigger target.

Could be a personal connection but did see this.

Texas Congressman tells MSNBC church shooter was not from the area

— Steve Lookner (@lookner) November 5, 2017

Texas Congressman tells MSNBC he does not believe the church shooting was related to terrorism

— Steve Lookner (@lookner) November 5, 2017

Would be one of the stranger crimes if it was just a random attack. I'm guessing an ex-husband or something.

[Toddzilla]

Thoughts and Prayers

[frnk55]

This is so fucking sick

[PilotMan]

Sickening

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Depending on where I look, average Sunday morning attendance there is being reported anywhere from 50 to 180.

Dang, that's small even by my rural church standards.

[CrescentMoonie]

Someone did a quick count of the last 4 weeks or so of their services on YouTube and said the average attendance was 50-75 during that time. Number of total shot today seem to be in that range. May have literally hit everyone.

Just saw the first preliminary on the shooter and it's a while male in his mid 20s from outside SA.

NEW: Authorities have preliminarily identified TX church shooter as white male in his mid-20s from outside San Antonio, sources tell @ABC.

— ABC News (@ABC) November 5, 2017

[RainMaker]

Yeah, with injuries he may have just about gotten everyone in the church in some capacity.

They dug up his Facebook and Linkedin already. Looks like he was in the Air Force, taught Bible Study at one point, had an AR-15 on his Facebook profile.

[Thomkal]

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

killer identified-26 year old man, served in Air Force, may have a relative in the town

[RainMaker]

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-p...s-r-1820163660

[thesloppy]

There is some extremely unenjoyable irony that these shooter profiles seem to creep closer to the stereotypical NRA member/good-guy-with-a-gun.

That said, even as a wussy lib, and even as the news gets worse, there's still a small fraction of my brain that responds to all the gun violence by thinking "Maybe I need to get a gun." so I can kind of understand how easy it is to get caught up in the idea of aggressive self preservation, and that more gun violence can actually serve to make plenty of gun owners want MORE protection for themselves.

[stevew]

If Thoughts and Prayers was a publicly traded stock, I'd be really bullish on it this week

[cuervo72]

Has anyone trademarked that phrase?

[NobodyHere]

So is it time for another gun debate yet? I have a good feeling that this one will actually accomplish something.

[cuervo72]

Sure, why not.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton: More Conceal Carry Guns Would Stop Mass Shootings

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So is it time for another gun debate yet? I have a good feeling that this one will actually accomplish something.

Doubt it.

[RainMaker]

It's reported that he was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that means you can't legally own a firearm. Will be interesting to see how he got it.

[Edward64]

Still a little to early and the full story is not yet out but thought below was interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/tex...ion/index.html

The gunman entered the small church in the rural town east of San Antonio, firing with an assault weapon at the congregation attending the morning service.

A man who lives next to the church grabbed his own rifle and engaged the gunman, said Freeman Martin, the regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety.

"The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church," Martin said.

The man then chased the gunman, Martin said.

When police spotted the suspect's vehicle a short time later at the county line, they found the gunman inside -- dead of a bullet wound.

[CrescentMoonie]

In other developed countries, gun homicides are much less common. https://t.co/7BjKdgg9M6 @KevinQ pic.twitter.com/idlh63Dr7H

— Margot Sanger-Katz (@sangerkatz) November 5, 2017

[hoopsguy]

Saw this on Twitter earlier tonight, wondered if folks here would dispute, provide greater nuance, etc ...

Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Umpqua CC: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15

[Edward64]

Besides the availability of guns, I do sometimes wonder if its something in our diet, violence in computer games and movies, more prescription drugs etc. that's contributing to the problem.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's reported that he was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that means you can't legally own a firearm. Will be interesting to see how he got it.

Depends on what he was discharged for. Given that it was a DD then it was probably for a felony level offense.

ETA: Assuming DD reports are true

[digamma]

I'll leave prescription drugs out of it, but the other factors are comparable to other developed nations and we don't see the level of gun violence there. Most developed countries see the same movies, play the same video games etc at relatively the same rates.

I haven't seen the studies on prescription drugs, but the heaviest factor in most studies is being male. The second is some history of violence.

And remember mass shootings get the headlines, but they aren't all of the story with gun violence. Domestic violence, suicides, etc. These numbers in particular go way down in the aggregate with more sensible gun laws.

As I offered in the other thread, if you'd like to find out how to get involved, please PM me.

[CrescentMoonie]

As we ponder another incident where teens and toddlers were harmed by guns, this stat is frightening and probably worse now than when first reported.

I've spent my whole year writing about kids getting shot in the US. The one number I cannot stop thinking about: https://t.co/yhn68TIJzd pic.twitter.com/BKbOUVmYXj

— John Woodrow Cox (@JohnWoodrowCox) November 6, 2017

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Saw this on Twitter earlier tonight, wondered if folks here would dispute, provide greater nuance, etc ...

Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Umpqua CC: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15

The AR-15 model is the most popular. It has a ton of companies making their own version. Its based on the 5.56/.223 caliber but there are plenty of other non-AR-15 rifles that uses same caliber so nothing special.

It is "cool" looking because its based off the military version, there are alot of customizations/add-ons that you can get, and they are relatively cheap.

My AR-15 was about $1,000. You can buy cheaper ones for $500-$600 and then there are higher-end $2K+ models.

Magazine size may be a contributing factor. Its mostly 30 bullet magazines. However, someone that is trained can probably swap a magazine in 3-5 seconds.

Its clear to me no one needs a 30 bullet magazine for self-defense, hunting, hobby etc. Not sure what the happy compromise is but think CA has capped it at 10 which I can live with but would prefer somewhat more.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by digamma

I'll leave prescription drugs out of it, but the other factors are comparable to other developed nations and we don't see the level of gun violence there. Most developed countries see the same movies, play the same video games etc at relatively the same rates.

I haven't seen the studies on prescription drugs, but the heaviest factor in most studies is being male. The second is some history of violence.

My wife tells me that female puberty is starting earlier than before and its likely diet. I don't think its chlorine in the water but could it be pesticides/chemicals in our food chain and processed food causing people to be more aggressive/less empathetic etc. Did a cursory search, nada ... but just wondering.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Its clear to me no one needs a 30 bullet magazine for self-defense

Depends upon the situation, I mean, let's be fair about that.

[digamma]

???

Violent crime is down overall, as are shootings. The problem we have is that our gun violence is way out of whack compared to other developed nations. We can isolate for factors such as diet, drugs, video games, movies, etc. We can also isolate for gun regulations.

So we've actually done a decent job overall. Some of this goes with development. Some is better policing. A lot is better regulations. The thing is we can do much, much better. There's no way we should have the gap in shootings relative to other developed countries.

The fact that violent crime as a whole is down would argue against your super food theory. We just aren't doing as good a job on this one particular issue as other countries.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Saw this on Twitter earlier tonight, wondered if folks here would dispute, provide greater nuance, etc ...

Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Umpqua CC: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15

I think this is slightly disingenuous, if only because most of these mass shootings involve multiple weapons, and you could probably replace AR-15 with 'handgun' in each of those examples, and it would largely remain just as true.

Here's a couple infographics (which are slightly out of date) regarding mass shootings in the USA over the past 30 years:

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by digamma

???

Violent crime is down overall, as are shootings. The problem we have is that our gun violence is way out of whack compared to other developed nations. We can isolate for factors such as diet, drugs, video games, movies, etc. We can also isolate for gun regulations.

So we've actually done a decent job overall. Some of this goes with development. Some is better policing. A lot is better regulations. The thing is we can do much, much better. There's no way we should have the gap in shootings relative to other developed countries.

The fact that violent crime as a whole is down would argue against your super food theory. We just aren't doing as good a job on this one particular issue as other countries.

Okay, actually didn't know that gun violence/shootings have decreased.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by digamma

but the heaviest factor in most studies is being male. The second is some history of violence.

Unfortunately double check marks for today's tragedy.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Okay, actually didn't know that gun violence/shootings have decreased.

Gun homicides are half of what they were in 1993. Mass shootings are up and increasing.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's reported that he was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that means you can't legally own a firearm. Will be interesting to see how he got it.

What we know about the Texas church shooting suspect

Now saying a Bad Conduct Discharge for assault on wife and child. Received confinement for 12 months. Not sure how this affects gun ownership.

Keep in mind that court martial charges do not always translate cleanly into misdemeanors and felonies

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My wife tells me that female puberty is starting earlier than before and its likely diet. I don't think its chlorine in the water but could it be pesticides/chemicals in our food chain and processed food causing people to be more aggressive/less empathetic etc. Did a cursory search, nada ... but just wondering.

I'll probably get bashed for this but I do think the media glorification of mass murderers hasn't helped. Mass murders happened before Columbine, but the event really seemed to spur on the celebrity status you get as one of these individuals.

Unfortunately, since this is so commonplace, these killers are now feeling the need to do more to standout which is leading to the huge casualty numbers. Killing 5 people would be plastered all over the news for a week back in 2000. I don't even know if the national media bothers covering it for more than a day if the numbers don't hit double digits (terrorism aside). It's crazy to me that the Vegas shooting, which was the biggest mass shooting in our nation's history, was just a month ago and practically forgotten from the public eye outside of some conspiracy nerds. You won't hear much about this church shooting in a week or two.

As mentioned earlier, these shooters almost always turn out to be men with a history of abusing women. And abusive men are profiled as being insecure with low self-esteem. The way our media treats the shootings and the way the public laps it up gives them a chance to be something in a world where they are nothings.

I don't know how that changes either. Maybe the public just gets bored with it and the media stops covering it so thoroughly. There was once a time when the public became obsessed with serial killers and that eventually seemed to just die off.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Reports now indicate 27 dead, 24 wounded. It is a small church. With those numbers, and the fact that reports are that he drove away after the shooting, I have to wonder if he shot just about every person in the church.

Saw a quote from the pastor along the lines of every one of his close friends having been killed today.

So...I would completely believe everybody at services this morning got shot.

[RainMaker]

As horrible as the story is, the story I'm seeing about 2 guys in a pickup truck chasing this shithead down and killing him is kind of badass (and probably something you'd only see in Texas).

[stevew]

Oh wow that is the most Texas thing ever

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As horrible as the story is, the story I'm seeing about 2 guys in a pickup truck chasing this shithead down and killing him is kind of badass (and probably something you'd only see in Texas).

Only in Texas.

Me, I would be cowering inside the house protecting the family and then trying to help the victims after the guy drove away.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As horrible as the story is, the story I'm seeing about 2 guys in a pickup truck chasing this shithead down and killing him is kind of badass (and probably something you'd only see in Texas).

Originally Posted by stevew

Oh wow that is the most Texas thing ever

Just saw an interview with the driver. It sounds like he didn't know the dude who confronted the shooter. He said something along the lines of "he briefed me quickly on what was going on and said that we had to get him so he got in and we took off. We hit about 95 mph chasing him."

We have reached peak Texas.

[Ben E Lou]

Ah, found a similar video of the driver.

[Ben E Lou]

Some news outlets are identifying the man who confronted the shooter as a 55-year-old biker who is a local plumber.