Parenting/Teaching Advice Needed

[CU Tiger]

I need some advice or suugestions from any educators w have or parents who have been through similar situations.

My oldest son is 6 and in the 1st grade. All year it has been a real challenge for us. Initially he was doing fine with his class work but seemed to get in trouble too frequently. Their teacher uses a "bear system" for behavior in which each student has a stuffed teddy bear that starts on their desk then gets moved varying degrees away from them as they act up. Moving a Bear 1 time is just a warning, 2x they are not allowed to go to recess 3x they get a note sent home, etc. So early in the year he was coming home every day saying he missed recess again for misbehaving, and then we got a note one day. All of the issues were around talking to other students or other "minor" childish activities (no blatant disrespect or fighting or whatever 1st graders could do)

After about a month of this I was concerned and scheduled a meeting with his teacher. We discussed it and she said it was real minor and that she was very strict early on to get students used to first grade work and a classroom environment. I re-enforced that both my wife and myself were very dedicated to our children and that we wuld support her fully and to please keep us updated on his behavior. Immediately following this meeting the behavior issues ceased for a couple weeks, to the point where some days my child was the only or one of the few that did not move his bear at all. [This may or may not be related at all to my main question I provide it as back up info]

Now fast forward to mid October and Parent teacher conference time.
At this conference his teacher reitterated that his behavior had improved dramatically and how pleased she was with his progress. I asked at that time about his academic work and was not real pleased with the answer. She merely stated "he is doing normal" which seemed an odd phrasing. My concern was based on the amount of time we were spending on homework (frequently 1-2 hours occaisonally more). She assured us it should not be taking that long and that he was merely playing with us. Well since that time, the work has increased. To the point where we spent 3 hours doing homework one night last week. And to add to my dismay my son doesn't appear to be learning anything in school. Instead of practicing and re-enforcing concepts I find myself teaching him. Case in point they skipped sentence structure and have went straight to grading on punctuation and capitalization, neither of which my child seemed to have heard of until his test paper was sent home with a 29 on it. When I sat with him he had no clue what he was being asked to do.

I am extremely frustrated and I emailed his teacher last night asking for tips or ways we could help. She replied with a nice email and said I should meet with her and the principal next week.

At this point I dont know if I should ask for a new teacher, or if the blame lies on my son. I am brought back to the earlier episodes of his talking in class and wonder if he and others are being allowed to converse instead of paying attention. If that is the case, certainly he bears responsibility for not paying attention, but doesn't the teacher have some culpability there for not controlling the classroom? (BTW class size is 16 if that matters) Further disturbing me is that through K-4 and K-5 He woke up ealry and loved to go to school, this year I have to fight to get him out of bed and he seems to detest going. On one hand I am starting to blame his teacher, but on the other I am perplexed because I see him struggling to grasp certain concepts I see as very basic.

Finally, I have a very hard time drawing on personal experience, which is why I am bringing this here. As a child my parents forbid me to do school work in the house as they said it made everthing a mess (great parenting huh?) so I would be forced to do all my homework either on the bus or in the car before I got home to avoid punishment. And school work alwasy came very easy to me. I never received any grade below an A until the 8th grade and and made my first non 100% on a test just 1 year earlier.

Throughout my life I have been blessed with the ability to grasp new concepts and learn new information very quickly with minimal effort. I can't help but wonder if my child just is not smart? Then I feel like a poor parent and even a bad person for thinking like that.

Things we have considered.
Asking for a change of teachers
Home tools/gimmicks (hooked on phonics?)
Movng him to a private school
Maybe even home schooling, though I am not sure my wife has the patience for this.

Does anyone have any insight?
Any suggestions?
We are really at or near the end of our ropes here.

[Lorena]

Our daughter seems to be getting a lot of homework as well and we were actually asked to sign a sort of agreement that we’d read to her everyday which seemed kind of extreme, but Antmeister reads to our kids frequently and I help our daughter with her reading homework so it wasn’t really an issue. To be honest I’m a little shocked at what kids are expected to learn nowadays… some of our daughter’s homework was stuff I learned in the 3rd grade! There seems to be a lot of pressure put on kids nowadays, we’re lucky Larissa (7 years old, 1st grade) can grasp things fairly quickly and don’t have issues with that.

As far as what to do, is there a way you can visit the class? It might be worth looking into to see if there’s anything she’s doing that you don’t agree with. Hooked on phonics is awesome, as is anything by Leapster (Leapster.. it’s fun for the kids and educational at the same time. Computer games have helped both our kids with reading and math as well. I don’t know what your child’s reading level is, but starfall (www.starfall.com) is a great site.

Hope this helps but I would definitely look into visiting the class to see how much of the homework is explained and how she handles the kids.

Good luck!

[Swaggs]

I work as a cognitive skills trainer and am currently taking classes in early childhood development. Take what I say with a grain of salt, but my thoughts:

My quick impression, from what I have read, is that the teacher seems to be more fixated on behavior, rather than learning. While having children be 100% obedient/quiet/non-disruptive/etc. is very convenient for teachers, it is obviously not always conducive to creating a learning environment, particularly for young children (who often need to use their other senses to learn with--rather than just being lectured to or at).

It is especially troubling that your son does not want to go to school. Things should not be so difficult/frustrating for a first grader and him showing avoidance at such a young age is really a big, red flag.

The first thing you should do (and you may have already) is just talk to your son and get him to tell you how he feels. Ask him open-ended questions, without making them leading (ie: Don't say, "Do you think your teacher is bad?," but ask "How do you feel about your teacher?"). There could be social factors affecting him or he could be having trouble grasping concepts.

If he is lacking in a few cognitive areas (short-term memory, processing speed, attention, long-term memory, reasoning/logic, auditory processing, etc), he may be having a lot of trouble keeping up and he may be getting frustrated. Discovering that he has congnitive difficulties at his age, rather than when he is much older, can be a good thing, because you can do things to help him develop those skills and, at his age, he will not miss out on a lot of school-learning (whereas, an older child may have to work on developing those skills AND "re-learning" the things he/she should have learned in school already). If you think it may be a cognitive problem, suggest that his doctor or an educator recommend someone to administer a test that can isolate/identify the areas that are difficult for him. The Woodcock-Johnson is a good test that can help do this. If it is a learning issue, I can PM you some information that can provide long-term help.

[Warhammer]

Does he seem to understand the concepts while you are working with him at home?

Does he try to do other things himself while he is home? Spelling, math, etc.?

Now, I have two boys and the older one will not do things new without you forcing him to do it by himself. For example, he wants to spell and write letters to you, but he refuses to read. But, if I sit him down and force him to do it (a variety of ways mainly revolving around him getting on the computer) he will do it.

[SnDvls]

I sent this to my wife who is a 1st grade teacher so I'll post her response once I get it.

[wade moore]

My fiance is a Kindergarten teacher and we talk about the classroom quite a bit. I won't give any specific guidance here as I'm not necessarily equipped to do that, but if I was use I would be very careful before jumping to the conclusion that the teacher is doing something wrong. I have heard way too many stories about how a kid is entirely different at school than at home.

I would take DC's advice. Try to see if you and/or your wife can visit the class a few times to see if that makes you more comfortable with what is going on in the classroom.

[PilotMan]

You sound a lot like me with my oldest. I really never worked hard in school and my mom was terrified that I wouldn't pass first grade (caused trouble, bored). When my oldest started school he had homework all the time. The teachers would say that he is smart but not applying himself. We would fight with him everyday to get his homework done, and to try and do well in school.

We moved to KY and had more of the same problems. Each year, our teachers would say the same things. He was missing recess, and other activities because he wasn't getting his work done, and he was bringing home all of his homework. We talked to our doctor and found that he was really ADD. Not ADHD, just ADD, and the fact that we live in a school district with a lot of turnover and a lot of problem kids, and couldn't afford to move, we decided to homeschool.

In your case his behavior problems don't sound out of the ordinary. He is still trying to get used to the whole school thing as well. I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as his performance and school work is concerned. My oldest had a lot of trouble learning to read, and rebelled against the idea that he needed to learn. Now he is a bookworm. I am guessing that he has read more books that I have, and he is 12 now. He can read around 800 pages a week if we let him.

Still, with homeschool, it is a battle. He has to have his meds, and if he doesn't it causes even more trouble to get his schoolwork done. He really doesn't like school at all, and unless it is history he really isn't interested in it.

Look for any other signs that something else might be contributing to the problem, like sleeping problems, emotional problems, or behavior problems at home or school.

I really was opposed to the way that the schools English, my oldest didn't learn phonics at all, and his teachers let him spell phoentically at first. Unfortunately, it was what he remembered and he still has problems sounding out words and spelling.

The bottom line is that you have to do what you gut is telling you. The public school system is not meant to teach to your kids. Your kids will only do good in public school if they fit the mold. Not all kids fit the mold.

Secondly, your boy is only in first grade, a lot can change from year to year. If you boy is having a problem with other kids, or the teacher hopefully you can get to the bottom of it and make the best decision for him. Remember, a meeting with the teacher and the Principle is likely going to be a double team against you. Stand your ground and fight for what the best is going to be for your boy.

We promised ours that he wasn't going to be in the same class with a certain imfamous boy who made things difficult. We fought the principle all the way until she finally relented. They were very against us homeschooling, but we still did what we thought we needed to.

Good luck in your efforts, and feel free to shoot me a PM. I am sure that my wife would have more insight to add if you were interested.

Additionally, as our next boy got older we have seen more and more how much different it was for our oldest. My youngest cruises through things and loves to learn, and doesn't seem to have nearly the same hangups that we dealt with in our oldest.

[Mustang]

Don't take this the wrong way but, you should in no way shape or form take your learning ability and translate it to how you feel your child should be picking up on things nor feel that there is somehow something wrong with them. I'm sure if you are working with them several hours a day and if you are getting frustrated, I'm sure they are picking up on that.

Is he just having trouble with English? I was great at other subjects but, I ain't wasn't ever no good with the English so, is it just a 1 subject issue?

I'd agree though, seems like the teacher loves a strict class if she spends that much time moving bears around.

Of course, maybe your kid is just scared shitless of bears and wants it off his desk as soon as possible.

[Warhammer]

My guess about the conduct is that is the new fad in teaching. They follow that same system in my son's kindergarten class.

[Barkeep49]

It's hard to get a feel from a message board but here are my somewhat random thoughts as an elem teacher:

I think it's a big red flag that when you asked to meet with the teacher again that she wanted to bring the principal into the conversation. That tells me that she wanted back-up.

What are other parents saying about this teacher?

What kind of classwork have you seen, if any? I think this would be an important indication of whether you or your son's teacher is justified in stating the type of progress he's making.

As for the options you've considered, they're all large steps. It feels to me that you are missing some steps along the way, as the problem itself isn't well defined. You have a discrepency between what progress at school versus home (see comment about seeing the classwork).

The specific example you give is somewhat troubling in that most first graders aren't good with capital letters or punctuation. Heck quite a few 4th graders aren't good with those topics. You are saying sentence structure. Does that mean things like having a subject and an action? If so that is every bit as basic of a topic as having a period at the end of the sentence.

It does sound like your son's teacher is very focused on discipline. The fact that your son has improved there is revealing to me. One it suggests a desire to do well and a capability to improve based on feedback; that's a good sign. However, if the teacher is focused on that, it could be she's mistaking progress there for academic progress.

So basically I feel like you're handling this well. Meeting with the teacher. Stating clearly what you're observing (3 hours for homework) which helps define the problem. Being persistent. These are all of the steps I would generally recommend.

Hope these somewhat scattered thoughts were of some help.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

My guess about the conduct is that is the new fad in teaching. They follow that same system in my son's kindergarten class.

It is actually an interesting concept in giving a tangible definition to the previously abstract concept of "three checks". So it seems to me less of a fad and more of a new way of doing an old style of discipline.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Having gone through both good years & bad years (now into 4th grade) my observations are pretty similar to rowech's.

Other comments though
-- The ever-growing mound of homework sounds extremely familar. The opt-repeated line about giving "no more than X (often 10-15 mins per grade)" is complete fiction with every school/teacher we've dealt with as well as every parent from schools hither & yon. Most often, they send home what they aren't capable and/or willing to teach. And if you find a teacher that actually grades their own student's work as opposed to handing it off to a spouse or child or other students, drop to your knees and give copious thanks.

-- My advice would be to get used to feeling as though you're teaching at home, not helping or reviewing. Through 6 years, we've been through that every year. And that's with a pair of private schools, so don't assume that's a cure-all by any means. At this point, I'm not really optimistic that the third school (anticipated for next year) will be any better either. Seems most of the private schools are good at some things, but none seem to be good at everything.

-- And my own school experiences sound very similar to yours, so I can really relate to (what feels like) the unique frustration that you're going through personally. After six years I've finally at least begun to deal with the differences in my learning ability/style and my son's but it's still not easy.
If nothing else though, at least be assured that you are not the first or only parent to have felt like you're feeling, because I've definitely BTDT.

-- One bit of advice that I'll offer is something that really helped us tremendously as a family although we were somewhat skeptical at first.
We had a thorough independent battery of tests done at Sylvan Learning Center, because we could not get a handle on exactly what our son knew/didn't know (despite straight A's) compared to what he "should" know for his age/grade level. By getting someone outside the system to do the testing & help interpret the results, we were able to feel like there was some objectivity to what we were hearing as opposed to the often whitewashed versions from his teacher/school. Although your mileage might vary since Sylvan or other similar companies are usually franchised, we were pleasantly surprised to find that in our case they were well equipped to handle what we wanted and to help fill in the few holes in his education that were identified. Despite a reputation that is built largely around working with, shall we say, "underachievers", to our surprise we found that they were more than capable (and quite happy) to help smooth a few edges on a high achiever. Before you get to the end of the rope you mentioned, I strongly recommend taking steps to get a firm grip on what the situation really is.

Might be as bad or worse than you fear, but it also might be significantly better than your nightmares. Before you let the unknown get you too far down, identify what's really going on, as the unknown is almost always worse than reality.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Other comments though
-- The ever-growing mound of homework sounds extremely familar. The opt-repeated line about giving "no more than X (often 10-15 mins per grade)" is complete fiction with every school/teacher we've dealt with as well as every parent from schools hither & yon.

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous because there's no way in hell these kids can finish both English and Math homework in 10-15 minutes.

[Barkeep49]

I would agree that the homework load is ever increasing at home and that has a whole lot to do with No Child Left Behind and making Adequate Yearly Progress. The schools are feeling the pressure and that pressure is moving downhill as it tends to in a situation like this.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I would agree that the homework load is ever increasing at home and that has a whole lot to do with No Child Left Behind and making Adequate Yearly Progress. The schools are feeling the pressure and that pressure is moving downhill as it tends to in a situation like this.

Yeah... I'm reading this thread and doing my very best to not get really defensive .. Partially because it does no good here and partially because I realize that not all teachers are as diligent and good as my fiance (and I mean that objectively believe it or not, she gets a ton of recognition for it - especially for being a 3rd year teacher)..

Anyway... it is worth noting that the standardized testing, etc, etc. is daunting - even if some do use it as more of a crutch than it is. As Kindergartners, my Fiance's classroom now has a full day of school, no nap time, and only 30 minutes of each "choice" time and recess. That's it, the rest of the day is instructional - for a 5 year old. That's pretty crazy imo. At that, she still can't really fit in everything that is being required.

of course, the flip side i have to realize is team member of hers have a combined like 90 minutes of choice and nap time plus the 30 minutes of recess.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous because there's no way in hell these kids can finish both English and Math homework in 10-15 minutes.

This year is the lightest we've had in terms of assigned homework (FTR, none of what I mentioned is work not finished at school, I'm strictly talking about things assigned only as homework). It's down to 30-60 minutes a night, plus the 30 minutes of required reading time.

And I'm not even going to get started on the way reading is handled now.
I know there's been historic problems getting most kids to read but for those of us who had willing & active readers, it's doing a lot more harm than good

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This year is the lightest we've had in terms of assigned homework (FTR, none of what I mentioned is work not finished at school, I'm strictly talking about things assigned only as homework). It's down to 30-60 minutes a night, plus the 30 minutes of required reading time.

And I'm not even going to get started on the way reading is handled now.
I know there's been historic problems getting most kids to read but for those of us who had willing & active readers, it's doing a lot more harm than good

FWIW, my fiance who has a master's in Reading Education (or whatever it's called) and will be certified as a Reading Specialist whenever she decides to take the test has serious problems with some of the trendy methods of teaching reading.

That being said, some of the new methods that seem strange to us she is very fond of... *shrug*.. Unfortunately often the school district has someone in their central office (or for you at the private school) that may or may not have any idea what is current in teaching forcing these things on the teachers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Unfortunately often the school district has someone in their central office (or for you at the private school) that may or may not have any idea what is current in teaching forcing these things on the teachers.

Since she might be interested & you might be desperate for a topic at some point), I'm talking about the combination of mandatory nightly reading time combined with some book-selling scam such as Scholastic's "Reading Counts" program. In theory the latter isn't awful but in practice it's a near disaster as advanced readers (i.e. Lexile scores far significantly beyond their peers) are too often forced into subject matter that's either inappropriate for their age or incredibly dry and completely outside their interests. And I take tremendous exception with the Lexile scoring for many many books, ranging from too high for some and too low for many others.

When you're telling a 4th grader (and their parents) that all of Ray Bradbury's work and all of Isaac Asimov's work is too easy for them but instead they have to read the much deeper Laura Ingalls Wilder books because they're difficult enough, something is FUBAR as far as I'm concerned.

It's a scheme to push book sales for Scholastic, but the schools & teachers (in our case at least) are more than willing to play along since they not only get freebies for doing so but they also get to buy pre-made computerized tests and avoid having to be familiar with any of the works themselves. Hell, even in a private school setting, we can't find a single person in the entire building who is conversant in how the program works beyond "read this, then take this test", and God knows I've tried having a conversation with everyone from the curriculum director to the librarian to the headmaster to the teachers. Sad to say, my wife & I understand how it works (or is supposed to work) better than they do. And that's not an overreaching assumption, that's what I'm told time & again pretty much point blank.

Granted, I can always encourage my child to read I, Robot on the side, but given the number of pages he's already required to do, at some point it becomes difficult to push extra reading on them with a clear conscience.

[Barkeep49]

Reading Counts, Lexile, and Accellerated Reader are all wonderful programs which are misused by 95% (or more) of teachers who use them. I'd be happy to talk about the weaknesses of any of those programs at length, it seems off topic here, but JIMG is absolutely right that these programs are sucking the life out of reading.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

but it seems off topic here, but JIMG is absolutely right that these programs are sucking the life out of reading.

Yeah, and I'm sorry I went off at such length. Blame it on proximity, having spent an hour at the school Book Fair not long before entering this thread (and having had yet another of those fruitless discussions in the process).

edit to add: I thought I remembered some sort of catch-all "parenting dynasty" thread around here at some point but I can't seem to find it. I'll gladly move my threadjackish rant to that if someone could point me in the right direction for it.

[johnnyshaka]

Stop it...you guys (and gal) are scaring me!!!!

My 18 month old just had her routine checkup and the doctor was a little disappointed that my daughter wasn't using words yet. Huh?? She told my wife that they like to see kids her age using about 5 or 6 words by this time and that we should get cracking on it. Holy crap!!

What's the friggin' rush??

[CU Tiger]

Just a few random replies.

+ One thing that immediately occured to me and the wife was the possibility of social problems, or bullies etc at school. Our research pretty much eliminates this. According to our observation, and the feedback from everyone we have spoken to Lane is the center of attention and liked by all the other kids. That jives with us, because he has had this magnetic personality since he learned to talk, and always draws a crowd at Tball, soccer etc.

+ The teacher is (Im guessing) late 40s-early60s. She definitely has some age on her but appears to be in very good shape.

+ We definitely seem to be much better at math than english, but patterns seem totally foreign to him. They just showed up Monday night on homework and he could not grasp what was being asked.

+ My comments regarding my learning ability was not intended to project onto him, more to illustrate that I can not recall how I felt struggling to learn, as I never did. I can not relate to thses challenges he is facing which makes my position difficult at best.

+ I am very interested in cognitive skills evaluations and that is something I will look into, be nice to see under the hood. What is causing the other issues.

+ I am far from the quick teacher's fault reaction. I didnt even consider it her fault until she seemed to ignore the fact that there was a problem. If anything I think it is a multi facet problem, certainly not all on her.

+ Observing the classroom is impossible. They do not have an observation room and there is no to get a litmus test when there is a 30 year old in the back off the room

+ I am very much against any behavior altering medication. It would take a clubbing over the head to change my mind. In my experience Ritlin and its kind turn exuberant dynamic children into zombies. I do not want to break his charisma or spirit as I think it separates leaders from followers

+ I have heard no good commenst from other parents. In fact one friend of his older brother had the same teacher 2 years ago and was held back at years end without any indications that he was struggling at any point during the year. Knowing that history, perhaps has scared me since day 1 and causes me to react/over react to some of his early challenges

+Yes, they are being given sentences with no punctuation or capitalization and being asked to correct them. But they have not touched on subject, action word (verb), object yet. They were never taught structure opr what makes a sentence complete but are asked to correct improper ones.

+ John Sylvan sounds very intriguing and I have at least heard commercials for them. I will certainly check into that.

+ Reading is crazy, they are so focused on sight words that they have abandoned phonics almost entirely. How in the hell does a kid learn an unknown word if his reading is done through sight recognition. Its total BS to me.

+ Really interesting happening today. My son was sent a behavior note home. Stating that he was talking during library time, and this is the troubling part repeatedly BRAGGING to his freinds about how upset his mother was at his poor test results he brought home yesterday. The teacher says she actually ahd to stop him from talking abou it 5 times. And its not like she went off the deep end, she simply sat him down and asked if he understood the test results, like we have done on every test this year. My very basic Psychology background would indicate a cry for attention good or bad here, but I dont think most folks can appreciate HOW involved we are with our kids. I mean I am the soccer,tball,football coach she is there at every function, at home its all about our kids. We sat around as a family and watched Shrek 3 last night. I cant imagine more attention or affection and yet it seems like he is craving negative feedback.

[PilotMan]

I am very much against any behavior altering medication. It would take a clubbing over the head to change my mind. In my experience Ritlin and its kind turn exuberant dynamic children into zombies. I do not want to break his charisma or spirit as I think it separates leaders from followers

Common, horrible misconception. We have tried a number of different meds, and it comes down to the point that he really needs them in order to maintain. Your situation is diffrent, but stimulants don't create zombies.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Common, horrible misconception. We have tried a number of different meds, and it comes down to the point that he really needs them in order to maintain. Your situation is diffrent, but stimulants don't create zombies.

They don't create zombies but to believe they do anything to fix the problem is naive at best. It just makes the problems become hidden. They're still there and until people are willing to sit down and figure out ways to really help these kids in this situation, nothing is going to get fixed. Then again, we throw medicine at everything anymore.

[PilotMan]

medicine alone can't solve the problem, but learning how to deal with it, and adjusting your behavior to minimize the problem is the key. The medicine gives a significant boost toward being able to deal with the problems that non-treatment have.

Most problems are treated with a multi-dimensional approach, and if they aren't they should be.

Believe it or not, there are kids with chemical imbalances in their brains that meet nearly every key diagnostic for ADD.

and there are those parents that are always trying to solve their kids because they aren't behaving and they fail to realize that their parenting is the real problem.

The latter is where the real problems are.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Stop it...you guys (and gal) are scaring me!!!!

My 18 month old just had her routine checkup and the doctor was a little disappointed that my daughter wasn't using words yet. Huh?? She told my wife that they like to see kids her age using about 5 or 6 words by this time and that we should get cracking on it. Holy crap!!

What's the friggin' rush??

Not that you asked, but that is correct. A child that is 18 months old should be using at least a few words even without their parents doing anything special. It isn't time to panic yet, but you and the doctor should be thinking of evaluating her for hearing problems if she doesn't start using words soon. If her hearing checks out, you have to think of developmental problems if she isn't talking at all by 2.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Common, horrible misconception. We have tried a number of different meds, and it comes down to the point that he really needs them in order to maintain. Your situation is diffrent, but stimulants don't create zombies.

Again, I'll add my unsolicited brief thoughts. Stimulants should not cause ANY personality changes when they are properly dosed. When they cause "zombie" like behavior, it is usually Primary Care Doctors who are severely overdosing the medication. At the proper dose, stimulants should cause zero personality changes, but should reduce hyperactivity and increase the ability to focus. I think some parents are way too anxious to put their kids on medicines and don't focus enough on proper parenting. Even though it's a big part of my career, I'm not quick to put kids on stimulants. However, stimulants are absolutely necessary for some kids who have a true chemical inbalance in order to achieve their full potential.

Edit: I meant to add that I completely agree with Pilotman. Stimulants should never be the sole treatment - they should always be part of a combined multi-prong treatment which includes behavior modification strategies via a counselor/therapist taught to the parents (and teachers when possible.)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

+ I have heard no good commenst from other parents. In fact one friend of his older brother had the same teacher 2 years ago and was held back at years end without any indications that he was struggling at any point during the year. Knowing that history, perhaps has scared me since day 1 and causes me to react/over react to some of his early challenges

I just want to say that there is no reason at all something like this should happen. My son is in K-5 this year and after taking a couple weeks for the kids to adjust to being in school they started testing them on a personal level. They tested their ability to hear letters, identify both capital and lower case letters, tested them on shapes, and also colors.

After this the teacher set up a 1 on 1 meeting with each of the student's parents and went over the results so they could see what areas need to be focused on for that individual child and explained what the end of year goals are. She also told me they do the tests again mid-way through the year to track progress and have another 1 on 1 meeting with the parents to go over it.

This isn't a private school and this is just kindergarten. There is no way in hell a child, especially one that young, should ever be in danger of being held back that late in the year and the parents have no clue.

[Drake]

All I know is that my 4th grader is bringing home close to two hours of homework a night -- and though it's clear that the teacher *is* covering all of the relevant topics in class and he's adequately retaining the material, the homework is starting to piss me off. I mean, as a parent, I feel like it's my job to be handy to help if he needs it as well as to review all of his assignments and help him correct the errors I find (spelling, punctuation, faulty calculations, etc.). If I was one of those parents who didn't give a shit, maybe I wouldn't mind so much.

All I know is that my 4th grader routinely has more homework than my freshman in high school, and there's something just not right with that given that they're of comparable academic ability.

[Drake]

I think you're right, rowech. My HS son completes most of his assignments in class or in "lab" (which is the fancy word for what we used to call "Study Hall").

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Drake

I mean, as a parent, I feel like it's my job to be handy to help if he needs it as well as to review all of his assignments and help him correct the errors I find (spelling, punctuation, faulty calculations, etc.). If I was one of those parents who didn't give a shit, maybe I wouldn't mind so much.

what do you mean? you go over his homework and correct his mistakes? doesn't that negate the point of homework? what's the protocol for that kind of stuff? i thought as a parent you should review their list of assignments and check to see if they actually did it and that's the extent of your involvement. of course if they have questions you're there as a resourse. my mom didn't ever check my homework. of course i never got straight A's, but whatever i got was due to my own intellect and not due to having a safety net (mom checking my work). i'm not knocking you or anything, i don't even have any kids, just not comprehending that statement.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

what do you mean? you go over his homework and correct his mistakes? doesn't that negate the point of homework? what's the protocol for that kind of stuff? i thought as a parent you should review their list of assignments and check to see if they actually did it and that's the extent of your involvement. of course if they have questions you're there as a resourse. my mom didn't ever check my homework. of course i never got straight A's, but whatever i got was due to my own intellect and not due to having a safety net (mom checking my work). i'm not knocking you or anything, i don't even have any kids, just not comprehending that statement.

It depends on the amount of involvement by the parent. Since parents are almost expected to do some of the teaching at home now, most parents won't just correct mistakes, they point them out and let the child make the corrections on their own and then go over it as needed.

School isn't the same as it used to be when you or I were growing up. The home has more or less become an extension of the school and is where a lot of teaching is done now.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

what do you mean? you go over his homework and correct his mistakes? doesn't that negate the point of homework? what's the protocol for that kind of stuff? i thought as a parent you should review their list of assignments and check to see if they actually did it and that's the extent of your involvement. of course if they have questions you're there as a resourse. my mom didn't ever check my homework. of course i never got straight A's, but whatever i got was due to my own intellect and not due to having a safety net (mom checking my work). i'm not knocking you or anything, i don't even have any kids, just not comprehending that statement.

I don't know about any of the other parents, but I help her by pointing out what she did wrong and guide her towards a right answer. If she still doesn't get it, I break it down even further but I never give her the answer, I let her figure it out on her own.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

My very basic Psychology background would indicate a cry for attention good or bad here, but I dont think most folks can appreciate HOW involved we are with our kids. I mean I am the soccer,tball,football coach she is there at every function, at home its all about our kids. We sat around as a family and watched Shrek 3 last night. I cant imagine more attention or affection and yet it seems like he is craving negative feedback.

could you be TOO involved, perhaps?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

I'm a high school math teacher and I'm hearing this more and more.

I'll just an another parental echo. And I hear it from pretty much all range of kids regardless of age, public or private school, etc. Across the board, they all say once you hit either 5th or 6th grade (depending on the location) the amount of homework steadily declines until graduation from high school.

And most tell me that the total amount of work period declines as well, just not as sharply. If I've heard one kid grades 6-12 tell my son then I've heard at least a couple dozen tell him "just hang in there, once you hit 5th it's a breeze & it's downhill all the way".

[Drake]

HA -

I'd clarify how I help him, but Dodgerchick stole my answer.

Seriously, though, it isn't about giving him the right answers but marking the things he does wrong, handing it back to him and then doing mini-teaching moments for the stuff he legitimately doesn't understand.

But I'm like you -- my parents didn't ever see my homework until I had a grade on it. The fact that they might *want* to check it never occurred to me. They seemed pretty happy with that arrangement since I was a straight A student.

I can count on one hand the number of times I ever needed help understanding anything in school (including college). The whole idea of checking my kids' homework, or even checking that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing with assignments, without that help being solicited by my kids is an artifact of my wife's upbringing.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Stop it...you guys (and gal) are scaring me!!!!

My 18 month old just had her routine checkup and the doctor was a little disappointed that my daughter wasn't using words yet. Huh?? She told my wife that they like to see kids her age using about 5 or 6 words by this time and that we should get cracking on it. Holy crap!!

What's the friggin' rush??

Is it something that runs in either your family or your wife's family? I didn't say many words until I was 3 or 4. My dad also didn't talk much when he was little and neither did my dad's sister's son.

[Cap Ologist]

I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about how classrooms are largely designed to teach girls at the expense of boys. The long periods of sitting at desks, working silently are generally the ideal working environment for girls, but are hell on boys.

From what you've described about your son, as an elementary school teacher I'd say that he's probably most likely bored as hell in school. And from how you've described the teacher, I can pretty much guarantee she uses very little, if any kinesthetic teaching methods. First graders have to be active. A general rule of thumb is that a person can sit still 1 minute for every year old they are. So, at 5-6 minutes, that kid has to be up and moving.

If I were you, I would ask the teacher if it's ok for your son to stand up at his desk and work if he wants to. This will actually help lesson distractions for him as he works.

I teach 4th grade, and it's very seldom that my students are sitting at their desk for more than 20 minutes at a time. We use clipboards, and they lie on pillows on the floor or walk around while they work. You can't really do that with first grade, but there needs to be some way for your son to be active while he's learning. One thing I used when I was a substitute teacher when I was working on my certification was giving Silly Putty to my more active students. They can play with it in their hands when they need to sit still for long stretches.

One thing you can do to help with sentence structure is make it into a game. It'll take a little work on your part, but I think it will help. Basically, make 'sentence puzzles'. Write several sentences on thin strips, chop them into several pieces and have your son physically move them around until they make sense. You can also make incorrect sentences and different types of bandages (capitalization bandaid, punctuation bandage, etc) that he has to place on the sentence.

Questions I'd ask the teacher:

1. How many hands on activities do you use to teach concepts?
2. Is there another way of discipline that doesn't involve losing recess? (I'm the only 4th grade teacher at my school that doesn't take away recess, and I have the lowest number of discipline problems. Taking away recess is STUPID, and only hurts the education process.)
3. Why is the homework taking so long if my child is doing 'normal' in school?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Drake

HA -

I'd clarify how I help him, but Dodgerchick stole my answer.

Seriously, though, it isn't about giving him the right answers but marking the things he does wrong, handing it back to him and then doing mini-teaching moments for the stuff he legitimately doesn't understand.

But I'm like you -- my parents didn't ever see my homework until I had a grade on it. The fact that they might *want* to check it never occurred to me. They seemed pretty happy with that arrangement since I was a straight A student.

I can count on one hand the number of times I ever needed help understanding anything in school (including college). The whole idea of checking my kids' homework, or even checking that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing with assignments, without that help being solicited by my kids is an artifact of my wife's upbringing.

understandable. i'm more of an independent person and use the assistance of other's as a last resort, which is a quality of mine i'd like to bestow on my future kids. my wife was the honor roll student between the two of us so i'm not sure how much involvement she plans on having when we get to that point, she may want to ensure our children continue down the same path of scholastic success she did. but i agree, if i *had* to, i'd follow the same path of "i've checked your homework and i've found 3 wrong answers. take it back and redo it, if you still can't figure it out we'll go over it together". that to me is reasonable. i wouldn't want my kids falling into a routine of "well, this is too hard so i'll just put anything down and dad will fix it for me/feed me the answers".

i have no advice/info to give the thread-starter as i'm not a parent. i don't think visiting the classroom would help - she obviously would give you something that isn't what a normal day would consist of. she'd put on a show for your and the next day when you weren't there things would go back to normal which wouldn't solve anything.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Reading Counts, Lexile, and Accellerated Reader are all wonderful programs which are misused by 95% (or more) of teachers who use them. I'd be happy to talk about the weaknesses of any of those programs at length, it seems off topic here, but JIMG is absolutely right that these programs are sucking the life out of reading.

Ah, ok.. Accellerated Reader is the one that I'm familiar with from my Fiance's school district - but seems quite a bit different from what Jon is talking about just for the fact that the kids don't buy the books, the schools do - which seems to remove a huge negative factor that Jon is mentioning. and, I'm less exposed because they don't use the program until 1st grade.

Anyway, this stuff is intrigueing to me so thanks for sharing Jon and Barkeep.

[SnDvls]

OK here's what the wife said

Is the teacher a 1st year teacher? Not that it is an excuse but it may be helpful in knowing where the problem lies. As a 1st grade teacher in Arizona we are allowed to give 15-20 min. of homework per night plus 10 min. of reading per night. This consists usually of a math worksheet or a language sheet each night. If you are having to teach him the concept then it should not be homework, do you see work come home with him that practices the skill that he is doing for homework? If not then she is probably assuming the kids just get it instead of teaching it to them. That would be something to bring up with the teacher and principal. As for the grading on sentences, I don't do that until April and May. It is not developmentally appropriate at this time. Right now 1st graders should be able to tell you if a sentence needs a capital letter, period and question mark. As for the "normal" I would never use that term but to me it means he is where he should be at this time for a 1st grader. Boy would I love to have a class of only 16 kids! In my experience changing teachers is not good for the child, it makes it an akward situation. Changing schools, if you are that unhappy and the principal can't seem to help may be your best option.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Stop it...you guys (and gal) are scaring me!!!!

My 18 month old just had her routine checkup and the doctor was a little disappointed that my daughter wasn't using words yet. Huh?? She told my wife that they like to see kids her age using about 5 or 6 words by this time and that we should get cracking on it. Holy crap!!

What's the friggin' rush??

johnny, I honestly wouldn't worry about it because even though she's not speaking yet, I bet she's really good at other things... a lot of kids are like that, they're slow in one area, but excel in others. Our 3 year old son doesn't talk yet, but he's really, really good in other areas. Each kid develops at their own pace.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Not that you asked, but that is correct. A child that is 18 months old should be using at least a few words even without their parents doing anything special. It isn't time to panic yet, but you and the doctor should be thinking of evaluating her for hearing problems if she doesn't start using words soon. If her hearing checks out, you have to think of developmental problems if she isn't talking at all by 2.

Seriously?? Developmental concerns already?? Yikes.

I'm definitely not concerned about her hearing as she so much hears any kind of music and she's dancing up a storm. I can ask her to get me her soccer ball and she'll grab her soccer ball out of a basket full of other balls. So, I'm also not concerned about her comprehension as she's listening and learning what different objects are called because I can do the ball test with just about everyone of her toys.

She does like to babble on in her own language so it's not like she isn't making any noise but none of it is coherent. Well, she does make a barking sound when she sees a dog on TV or anywhere else, for that matter. Does that count??

EDIT: Racer and Dodgerchick...I realize that nobody develops at the same pace but at the same time being new to this stuff I was a little shocked at how early kids are expected to do things...whether it be talking or reading or writing. Just seems like we're so focused on turning our kids into productive adults as early as possible and to me that seems silly. I don't know about you guys, but I'm having a blast watching her figure out how to interact with everything around her...from her toys to an ice cream cone filled with pudding...they are just so amazing.

[Eaglesfan27]

When I said developmental concerns, I meant it in the broadest context possible: It includes the very severe things such as Autism in which case a child wouldn't be interacting with their parents in a normal way and wouldn't be responsive to requests to get a ball, usually. However, it also includes relatively minor things such as an expressive language disorder. Of course, there are many things in between. Many studies have shown that early intervention leads to a better outcome in any of these developmental problems. If my child wasn't speaking any words by 2, I'd take her either to a good developmental pediatrician, an infant/toddler trained child psychiatrist, or at the very least, a good speech therapist.

[rjolley]

My general guideline for helping with homework is to make sure they understand what they're supposed to do, how they're supposed to do it, and what mistakes they've made, if any. If I see a fundamental error in the concepts of what they're doing, I'll talk to them about it. But, after a time or two of explaining, I will send them back to school with wrong answers so that their teacher can see what they're having problems with and address it in class with them.

I want to make sure they understand the concepts of what they're learning in school, and make sure the teachers know what they're struggling with, not know what my daughters and I together can answer correctly.

[Passacaglia]

She merely stated "he is doing normal"

Luckily, they don't teach adverbs to first graders.

they skipped sentence structure

You don't say?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

When I said developmental concerns, I meant it in the broadest context possible: It includes the very severe things such as Autism in which case a child wouldn't be interacting with their parents in a normal way and wouldn't be responsive to requests to get a ball, usually. However, it also includes relatively minor things such as an expressive language disorder. Of course, there are many things in between. Many studies have shown that early intervention leads to a better outcome in any of these developmental problems. If my child wasn't speaking any words by 2, I'd take her either to a good developmental pediatrician, an infant/toddler trained child psychiatrist, or at the very least, a good speech therapist.

I definitely appreciate the insight and advice. I definitely don't want to retard my child's development by not trying to correct potential issues before they become more serious issues.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

She does like to babble on in her own language so it's not like she isn't making any noise but none of it is coherent. Well, she does make a barking sound when she sees a dog on TV or anywhere else, for that matter. Does that count??

My daughter meowed and barked long before she spoke "people" And like your daughter, it was obvious that she could hear and really understood what people were saying to her. I think she was around 20 months when she really started saying words.. and now, at two and a half, you can't shut her up

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by rjolley

My general guideline for helping with homework is to make sure they understand what they're supposed to do, how they're supposed to do it, and what mistakes they've made, if any. If I see a fundamental error in the concepts of what they're doing, I'll talk to them about it. But, after a time or two of explaining, I will send them back to school with wrong answers so that their teacher can see what they're having problems with and address it in class with them.

I want to make sure they understand the concepts of what they're learning in school, and make sure the teachers know what they're struggling with, not know what my daughters and I together can answer correctly.

This is, for the most part, the way I want my parents to approach their kids homework. Having the kid come in with 100% on the homework signals to me that the kid got the concept, when perhaps that's not true. And then test time comes along and they do poorly upsetting kid and parent. Unfortunately, I know some teachers feel differently and so the incentive to send a kid with really well down HW is far greater.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

+ Really interesting happening today. My son was sent a behavior note home. Stating that he was talking during library time, and this is the troubling part repeatedly BRAGGING to his freinds about how upset his mother was at his poor test results he brought home yesterday...My very basic Psychology background would indicate a cry for attention good or bad here, but I dont think most folks can appreciate HOW involved we are with our kids. I mean I am the soccer,tball,football coach she is there at every function, at home its all about our kids. We sat around as a family and watched Shrek 3 last night. I cant imagine more attention or affection and yet it seems like he is craving negative feedback.

I've got no experience with kids this age (my daughter is 17 months old) and no professional knowledge relates to this, but your instincts seem to be telling you something. Clearly you spend lots of time with your son. How much 1-on-1 attention are you able to fit in there, where he has no teammates, siblings, family pets or anything else competing for your time?