The Trump Presidency – 2016

[molson]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess I am of the era where you could dress up like Michael Jackson without using blackface and you'd be just fine. he must be thriller era?

I think before the internet, there was plenty of blackface costumes out there that were just rooted in ignorance. I remember in 5th or 6th grade (around 1989) we were doing some school skit, someone was playing Mike Tyson and talked about finding something to rub on his face to make it black. Fortunately, a teacher immediately shot that down and gave just a brief lesson about why that was no good. But we honestly just didn't know - skin color was just skin color and we were way more racially innocent than the teachers correcting us. I can see that ignorance lasting longer, even into young adulthood, in communities where you don't have good role models shutting it down. It really is something you have to learn is wrong. It's harder to have that excuse now. And you'd expect more from someone who would become Governor, even in that era, especially when they were an adult.

[Warhammer]

Nice to see racists are represented in both political parties.

EDIT: Seeing how everyone was beating up people on the right since there were absolutely NO racist democrats...

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

‪Would you be completely shocked if at least one Dem 2020 contender’s campaign has reached out to Northam’s people asking him to hold off on resigning until the candidate can issue a statement demanding his resignation?‬

In this day and age, absolutely not.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Nice to see racists are represented in both political parties.

EDIT: Seeing how everyone was beating up people on the right since there were absolutely NO racist democrats...

Before we go all "Both sides..." remember that Northram is being savagely attacked by his own party right now and there are no calls from the right for Trump or Steve King to step down.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

I think before the internet, there was plenty of blackface costumes out there that were just rooted in ignorance. I remember in 5th or 6th grade (around 1989) we were doing some school skit, someone was playing Mike Tyson and talked about finding something to rub on his face to make it black. Fortunately, a teacher immediately shot that down and gave just a brief lesson about why that was no good. But we honestly just didn't know - skin color was just skin color and we were way more racially innocent than the teachers correcting us. I can see that ignorance lasting longer, even into young adulthood, in communities where you don't have good role models shutting it down. It really is something you have to learn is wrong. It's harder to have that excuse now. And you'd expect more from someone who would become Governor, even in that era, especially when they were an adult.

But the Klan robe is absolutely positively out of bounds and he knew it.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Nice to see racists are represented in both political parties.

EDIT: Seeing how everyone was beating up people on the right since there were absolutely NO racist democrats...

We beat up racists on the right because we should be fucking ridding our nation of racism. And their party fucking defends them do the bitter end and actively attempts to normalize such behavior. Are you serious?! As others have pointed out, his own party is calling for this racist to resign.

If Mueller's investigation finds corrupt democrats in congress working with the same russians that the Trump Campaign was working with, that's GREAT!!! Get them ALL the fuck out. Root out the corruption, remove it, protect our god damn democracy. This isn't a team sport.

[NobodyHere]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...g-unforgivable

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...g-unforgivable

Yeah, I saw this earlier and it's almost sad that this is the world we live in. The GOP has no problem grabbing their pitchforks for Northam and Franken, but we have white supremacists in the Trump Administration and an openly White Supremacist member of Congress that is 100% ok because the GOP is really the party of power at all costs.

[Edward64]

So I know I will be in the minority ...

Unless Northam has shown a pattern of racism, I would let this go. Does it excuse it? No, but those were different times, there was less sensitivity to these issues by whites then etc.

Now if it comes up Northam has done similar things or have been heard to say racist stuff over the past 30+ years, that's a different matter.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Judge much guys?

Like you all never got black out drunk in college and dressed in KKK garb?

When is it time for a Governor to resign: when the press asks “Gov., are you the one in blackface or are you the one in the white hood?”

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So I know I will be in the minority ...

Unless Northam has shown a pattern of racism, I would let this go. Does it excuse it? No, but those were different times, there was less sensitivity to these issues by whites then etc.

Now if it comes up Northam has done similar things or have been heard to say racist stuff over the past 30+ years, that's a different matter.

He's the Coonman after all

[JPhillips]

He's known about a time he appeared in blackface for decades and kept it secret. This isn't about what he did 35 years ago, it's about a guy that tried to hide it and only when he was caught expressed remorse. If he had owned up to this previously it would be a different matter IMO, but he didn't. He's been lying by omission the whole time.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

He's known about a time he appeared in blackface for decades and kept it secret. This isn't about what he did 35 years ago, it's about a guy that tried to hide it and only when he was caught expressed remorse. If he had owned up to this previously it would be a different matter IMO, but he didn't. He's been lying by omission the whole time.

So you do think every other politician tells voters about all the skeletons in their closet or something?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

He's known about a time he appeared in blackface for decades and kept it secret. This isn't about what he did 35 years ago, it's about a guy that tried to hide it and only when he was caught expressed remorse. If he had owned up to this previously it would be a different matter IMO, but he didn't. He's been lying by omission the whole time.

It's only one incident that I know of. Even if it was 2-3-4 in his college days, if there is no/little evidence of his racism since then, I vote we let it go and mark it up to teenage, young adulthood stupidity. I think its reasonable to judge a man and give more weight to his past 10-20 years.

The vast majority of us would not want to be held hostage to stupid things we did way back when.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So I know I will be in the minority ...

Unless Northam has shown a pattern of racism, I would let this go. Does it excuse it? No, but those were different times, there was less sensitivity to these issues by whites then etc.

Not really sure that's a winning argument tbh

"White people were more okay with making fun of racial minorities then so we shouldn't hold it against a white person that they behaved abominably because their white peers were okay with it" is not terribly exculpatory.

[Flasch186]

The bar has been lowered so far below what I thought was bottom I'm willing to let almost anyone stay. Time is on your side. The trump motto is just waiting it out and eventually, it blows over and he's been right. So do so and live to fight another day.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Not really sure that's a winning argument tbh

"White people were more okay with making fun of racial minorities then so we shouldn't hold it against a white person that they behaved abominably because their white peers were okay with it" is not terribly exculpatory.

The argument is - it was a long time ago, if he hasn't shown a pattern or it hasn't been repeated in the past 10-20 years, let it go as youthful stupidity. We've all done stupid things as young people, we've all got things to be ashamed of.

[digamma]

Wasn't this the same argument you used with Hugh Freeze at Mississippi?

I can actually buy forgiveness. It's important. We do need to learn to forgive one another. That doesn't change the fact that something like this completely neuters you as an executive and a champion on behalf of minority groups. It's not really about whether someone deserves a second chance, it's about whether they can be effective at all in office.

Plus, what radii said.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So you do think every other politician tells voters about all the skeletons in their closet or something?

If they want me to believe they are different now, yes. Northam rolled the dice hoping that this would never be discovered.

Just in terms of party politics this was incredibly reckless. John Edwards reckless. If Gillespie had found this Northam certainly would have lost.

[stevew]

Maybe the Rs knew about it but didn't want to split the racist vote.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by digamma

Wasn't this the same argument you used with Hugh Freeze at Mississippi?

I can actually buy forgiveness. It's important. We do need to learn to forgive one another. That doesn't change the fact that something like this completely neuters you as an executive and a champion on behalf of minority groups. It's not really about whether someone deserves a second chance, it's about whether they can be effective at all in office.

Plus, what radii said.

Not think it was me re: Hugh Freeze (but, in retrospect, I would have forgiven Petrino as AR was doing really well under him )

You are right. It would be a lot better if he said it was him, I was young and stupid etc. please forgive me. I've been a pediatric neurosurgeon and I've taken care of all people regardless of race, I've advocated for confederate statues to be taken down etc. I've not shown a pattern etc. whatever.

He should just have apologized.

Maybe I'm missing something here because I've not kept up with Northam. Has he been accused/shown to have racist tendencies in the past 10-20-30 years?

[cuervo72]

Russia's propaganda machine discovers 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard

Probably not a selling point.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not think it was me re: Hugh Freeze (but, in retrospect, I would have forgiven Petrino as AR was doing really well under him )

You are right. It would be a lot better if he said it was him, I was young and stupid etc. please forgive me. I've been a pediatric neurosurgeon and I've taken care of all people regardless of race, I've advocated for confederate statues to be taken down etc. I've not shown a pattern etc. whatever.

He should just have apologized.

Maybe I'm missing something here because I've not kept up with Northam. Has he been accused/shown to have racist tendencies in the past 10-20-30 years?

You're right, with Freeze you said his personal life was his personal life. Different argument.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - 2017 College Football Offseason...Stoops Retires

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by digamma

You're right, with Freeze you said his personal life was his personal life. Different argument.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - 2017 College Football Offseason...Stoops Retires

Okay, thought you were referring to a Freeze racist statement. Give Freeze credit for denouncing the confederate flag.

TBF, I also believe Bill's indiscretions were between him and Hillary. He should not have lied and try to redefine what "sex" was.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Russia's propaganda machine discovers 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard

Probably not a selling point.

I'm not aware of a Democrat who is worse than Tulsi Gabbard. I'm a staunchly anti-third party person, but a Gabbard-Trump election is probably what would break me.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The argument is - it was a long time ago, if he hasn't shown a pattern or it hasn't been repeated in the past 10-20 years, let it go as youthful stupidity. We've all done stupid things as young people, we've all got things to be ashamed of.

Yes fine youthful stupidity

except that "let it go" is a thing that gets applied exclusively to white indiscretions, and that compounds the problem.

If Northam had been a black man, and had somehow been recorded 20 years ago making "jokes" about assaulting white women, do you think anybody would chalk that up to "youthful stupidity"? Anybody at all?

If Brock Turner had been a black man, do you think he gets 30 days because "we shouldn't destroy his life for 20 minutes of action"?

It's a repeating pattern. Sometimes the offense involves physical assault and sometimes it's more akin to emotional denigration, but excuses are nearly always on behalf of the white offender because "boys will be boys," and the same defenders don't show up when the skin color of the offender changes.

And that's especially problematic when the offense in question is committed by the white person *against* a minority group, because it just reinforces the idea that minorities aren't really equal citizens. If a white person does it, we'll excuse it, but if a minority does it, we must destroy them.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Yes fine youthful stupidity

except that "let it go" is a thing that gets applied exclusively to white indiscretions, and that compounds the problem.

If Northam had been a black man, and had somehow been recorded 20 years ago making "jokes" about assaulting white women, do you think anybody would chalk that up to "youthful stupidity"? Anybody at all?

If Brock Turner had been a black man, do you think he gets 30 days because "we shouldn't destroy his life for 20 minutes of action"?

It's a repeating pattern. Sometimes the offense involves physical assault and sometimes it's more akin to emotional denigration, but excuses are nearly always on behalf of the white offender because "boys will be boys," and the same defenders don't show up when the skin color of the offender changes.

And that's especially problematic when the offense in question is committed by the white person *against* a minority group, because it just reinforces the idea that minorities aren't really equal citizens. If a white person does it, we'll excuse it, but if a minority does it, we must destroy them.

There is truth in what you say re: different standards with whites. This is especially more so 30+ years ago but I do think its getting better, especially as the baby boom generation passes the baton.

If your argument is there are different standards and whites very often get the benefit of doubt. No doubt, I agree.

If you argument is there are different standards and that's why Northam who did this racist thing but has not shown a pattern in the past 10-20-30 years, should be called a racist and give up his career, I disagree with.

Two wrongs don't make a right.



With that said ..

His apology and then somewhat retraction is pretty weird. This shows he is not sorry or it really wasn't him in the picture (doubtful). This is what I would flag him on, not the initial picture.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm not aware of a Democrat who is worse than Tulsi Gabbard. I'm a staunchly anti-third party person, but a Gabbard-Trump election is probably what would break me.

You're my spirit animal.

Gabbard is possibly a worse option than Trump.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So I know I will be in the minority ...

Unless Northam has shown a pattern of racism, I would let this go. Does it excuse it? No, but those were different times, there was less sensitivity to these issues by whites then etc.

Now if it comes up Northam has done similar things or have been heard to say racist stuff over the past 30+ years, that's a different matter.

I tend to agree with this. I will add that 1984 wasn't all that long ago and I don't think putting yourself in blackface or KKK robes was something that would normally go in a yearbook. With that said I think this was done for the shock value than pure racism. I don't know Northam's heart.

I'm personally out of outrage at this moment an don't really care what happened 30 years ago unless like you said there's a pattern that continues to this day.

Also I've done some really stupid stuff in my day and I'm not going to stand on a pedestal condemning others for something that happened 30 years ago.

I'm surprised (though I shouldn't be) that liberal Hollywood also keeps hiring Mark Wahlberg considering what he did was far worse than a yearbook photo.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm surprised (though I shouldn't be) that liberal Hollywood also keeps hiring Mark Wahlberg considering what he did was far worse than a yearbook photo.

I wouldn't say Deepwater Horizon was quite that bad.

[Thomkal]

So when Trump declares a national emergency over the Wall, everyone should retweet the photo of him playing golf with Jack Nicklaus and Tiger yesterday in Florida.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm surprised (though I shouldn't be) that liberal Hollywood also keeps hiring Mark Wahlberg considering what he did was far worse than a yearbook photo.

If we've learned anything from the #metoo movement its that liberal hollywood is full of horrible people that have also played a huge part in normalizing a lot of truly terrible behavior. Not every politician is a racist, or colluding with foreign governments in shady ways, not every movie producer is a rapist, but people in powerful positions sometimes abuse that power in horrible ways, and if the people around them defend these things, its also awful and should be called out and everyone in these circles should be held accountable. This is regardless of political affiliation or whether they make good movies.

Don't let shitty people get away with being shitty.

[stevew]

Probably just me, but going thru the arrest and toss process for 21 Savage 1 week before the Grammys and 3 weeks before the Oscars is a questionable decision

[JPhillips]

Holy crap. The Lt. Gov of VA just agreed that he thinks Northam and his people are behind the sexual assault allegations that came out today. I guess Northam's plan is to burn everything to the ground.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Holy crap. The Lt. Gov of VA just agreed that he thinks Northam and his people are behind the sexual assault allegations that came out today. I guess Northam's plan is to burn everything to the ground.

There's a disturbing amount of "if I can't be in charge of it, I'd rather destroy it" in elected officials today.

[albionmoonlight]

dola--caveat that I haven't been following any of this too closely, so it might be that the allegations against the Lt. Gov. are credible. No reason to to wait and see and investigate.

[NobodyHere]

Donald Trump inaugural committee subpoenaed by federal prosecutors

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So when Trump declares a national emergency over the Wall, everyone should retweet the photo of him playing golf with Jack Nicklaus and Tiger yesterday in Florida.

Why? I don't get the relevance, seriously.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Why? I don't get the relevance, seriously.

1) Bad optics for a president to be playing golf when there's a potential national emergency going on.

2) The hypocritical Trump was very critical about how much golf Obama played.

[Brian Swartz]

2) - Sure, but that has nothing do with the Wall. On 1), what can he do about what the Wall instead of playing golf? I mean, it's not as if Congress is offering to fund the wall if he'll just stay off the links more.

[NobodyHere]

He can go back to congress and prove what a masterful negotiator he is?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There is truth in what you say re: different standards with whites. This is especially more so 30+ years ago but I do think its getting better, especially as the baby boom generation passes the baton.

If your argument is there are different standards and whites very often get the benefit of doubt. No doubt, I agree.

If you argument is there are different standards and that's why Northam who did this racist thing but has not shown a pattern in the past 10-20-30 years, should be called a racist and give up his career, I disagree with.

The bolded bit is where you're missing the point. If Northam had been a black man and been recorded 20 years ago "joking" about assaulting women, it wouldn't *matter* what the prevailing pattern of behavior in the years since was.

He'd be targeted for political destruction.

Because he's a white man, people are falling over themselves to excuse the behavior away as "it was a different time and he's not like that NOW so it's probably just youthful indiscretions" as though people don't, as they age, learn not to use the Outside Voice for some things.

Well, people not named Donald Trump do.

As you say, though, his response to this whole thing is super weird.

And that suggests to me there's more there than "youthful indiscretions." If that's all it was - he was young, dumb, and stupid and did a stupid, dumb thing because he was young, his rationalizing wouldn't be this contortionate.

[Drake]

I'd have different feelings about the "young and dumb" defense if it was a high school yearbook.

For some reason, I expect more maturity or a higher level of cognizance out of people in medical school. We don't generally give new doctors the benefit of a "young and dumb" defense if their negligence kills somebody. I realize that dressing up in blackface isn't a professional medical skill...but it does get at adult judgment.

I grew up in uncultured, redneck, casually racist rural Indiana for my entire young life and yet managed not to put on blackface for anything. So I'm a little baffled, admittedly, about 1) how such a circumstance arises, and 2) why anyone would want to do it if the circumstance did arise. Maybe we just didn't take our Michael Jackson contests seriously enough.

[Kodos]

Hooooo-hoooo! *grabs crotch*

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Why? I don't get the relevance, seriously.

This is supposed to be a functioning democracy. Trump going to play golf instead of working day and night to get his national emergency fixed means one branch of govt is not functioning correctly.



Let's put this in a way-a real national emergency existed. Let's say that massive earthquake they have been predicting for the mid-west finally happens. Massive amount of death and destruction. Do you want your President to be playing golf with Jack and Tiger or working with Congress and federal agencies to help people as quickly and efficiently as possible?


He's using his Wall as just such a national emergency and then going to play golf.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Hooooo-hoooo! *grabs crotch*

What is a cat-calling owl?

[Ben E Lou]

I finally got around to watching the Northam presser where he offered as evidence that he didn't do blackface in *that* photo the fact that he remembers doing blackface a different time.





That dummy was actually going to moonwalk if his wife hadn't stopped him. He was checking to see if he had room. What on EARTH???

[RainMaker]

Per Thomas Piketty roughly 60% of America's wealth is inherited, meaning most of America's riches are owned by people who didn't work for them. https://t.co/zBo8XYepm0 pic.twitter.com/uG1ExgCa8Y

— Christopher Ingraham (@_cingraham) February 4, 2019

[miked]

And they can just collect interest nearly tax-free or invest it with a lower tax rate than working. But I guess most should just learn to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[QuikSand]

Your Guide to Tonight’s Trumpian Word Vomit - The Bulwark

Rick Wilson grants no quarter