NFL's Top Ten Snakebitten Franchises

[albionmoonlight]

If you are like me, you like football. If you are like me, you also have a weird fascination with top-ten lists of things. If I'm flipping the channels, and I see a show like "top ten 80s actors who would have looked good in a fedora," I'll end up spending the next 40 minutes glued to the TV in spite of my better instincts.

So, I have been happy that the NFL Network has been running NFL-based top ten lists. This Friday they are doing top ten snakebitten franchises, which they define as teams that could never seem to get fate on their side, and I thought that it might be nice to try and predict them.

My guess:

1. Lions
2. Browns
3. Saints
4. Cardinals (would be #1 had they not just gone to the SB)
5. Falcons
6. Bengals
7. Bills (hard to say that a franchise with 4 SB trips is snakebit, but enough heartbreak when they got there to put them on the list)
8. Bucs (recently very good, but so so horrid before that)
9. Seahawks
10. Vikings

Maybe the Jets should be on that list, but SB3 was such a high profile and important win that I would say they are immune from being called "snakebit" for 100 years or so after that.

[Mustang]

I'd have the Browns #1 and it wouldn't be close. When I think snakebitten, I'm thinking that you are doing alot of things right, just that you have bad luck for whatever reason. I think the Lions have just been flat out incompetent.

[Apathetic Lurker]

The Lions will always be number 1 in my book.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I'd have the Browns #1 and it wouldn't be close. When I think snakebitten, I'm thinking that you are doing alot of things right, just that you have bad luck for whatever reason. I think the Lions have just been flat out incompetent.

Hmmm. I won't edit my list, but you might be right. Snakebit is one of those terms that's hard to know just what someone means by it.

[Passacaglia]

Weren't the Browns and Lions incredibly successful in the 50's and 60's?

[boberot]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Weren't the Browns and Lions incredibly successful in the 50's and 60's?

This is true. Even the Bills had some pre-Super Bowl championship success.

Considering how historically awful the Saints have been -- combined with the recent hard luck their city and stadium endured -- you could make a compelling case for N.O. at #1, methinks.

[Galaril]

The Titans/Oilers franchise at least in the NFL have never won it all though they have a number of time had the best or of the best teams in the league which maybe worse than teams that never got close they have oh so close.

[Honolulu_Blue]

We went over this last year before the Cardinals made it to the Super Bowl. It was between the Cardinals and the Lions and then the Cardinals made it to the Super Bowl and were excluded from the conversation.

The Lions have won one playoff game in 52 years. ONE.

They are the only NFL team in history to go 0-16.

Their incompotence essentially forced the greatest player in the NFL (at that time), Barry Sanders, to retire prematurely.

That pretty much settles it, no?

I guess it depends on how you define "snakebitten".

[Desnudo]

Teams that have won the Superbowl shouldn't qualify. Tampa Bay used to really stink, but they won a championship six years ago.

I also think there's a difference between snakebit - Bills, Browns and incompetent - Lions, Bengals, Saints.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by boberot

This is true. Even the Bills had some pre-Super Bowl championship success.

Considering how historically awful the Saints have been -- combined with the recent hard luck their city and stadium endured -- you could make a compelling case for N.O. at #1, methinks.

The Saints probably have the single best play to demonstrate being snakebit. About 5 years ago, they scored a miracle 75 yard TD on the last play of the game using about 5 laterals only to miss the extra point that would have tied the game.

[chesapeake]

So much depends on what period of time you are covering. I don't know that I'd put Seattle on the list. Although they had a very rough time between Chuck Knox and Mike Holmgren, they were pretty good during both of those periods, which include an AFC Championship appearance and a SB appearance. I'd replace them with the Jets.

If you are looking at just the last 10 to 15 years, you'd have to put both SF and Oakland on the list in place of the Bucs and Vikings.

[ColtCrazy]

1. Browns. I think they have to be #1 because they were a once proud franchise with very die hard fans that just can't seem to put it all together. The Drive. The Fumble. Moving the Team. Tim Couch. It goes on and on.

2. Bills. Another team that enjoyed success years ago. 4 Super Bowl losses has to make you quite snake bitten and they get a bonus over the Vikes because they were in a row.

3. The Lions. Had success in the 90s, and are horrid now. Don't think they rate as high because their fan base isn't quite as rabid as the Browns.

4. Vikings. The Bills light. Super Bowl losses, the 98 playoff loss. Consistently a good team that can't get over the hump.

5. Saints. One of the few remaining teams to never have even been to a Super Bowl. Hurricane Katrina scores them some bonus points.

6. Bengals. This team has been bad ever since Paul Brown passes away. In 2005, their one moment of hope, was dashed when Palmer's knee blew up. So goes life as a Bengal fan. I wouldn't be surprised if they were higher, especially if they factor in Greg Cook.

7. Cardinals. More hopeless than snake bitten.

8. Chiefs. Another of the once proud franchises. Since then, it's been several high playoff seeds gone to waste.

9. Eagles. Rabid fans always seeing talented teams come up short.

10. Jets. Always living in the Giants shadow and can never seem to do enough to get out of it.

[Alan T]

Not sure how you can leave the Falcons off the list as they also have never won a superbowl.. and unlike many of the teams on the list, they have not been incompetent the entire time. They have had some pretty good teams or talented players only to watch the entire thing implode for all kinds of various reasons (Vick and his dogs, Glanville and his sideshow, etc).

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Not sure how you can leave the Falcons off the list as they also have never won a superbowl.. and unlike many of the teams on the list, they have not been incompetent the entire time. They have had some pretty good teams or talented players only to watch the entire thing implode for all kinds of various reasons (Vick and his dogs, Glanville and his sideshow, etc).

I agree, almost put them on instead of the Cardinals. I wonder if the recent hope of Matt Ryan might knock them off. It'll be interesting to see which 10 make it on.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

1. Browns. I think they have to be #1 because they were a once proud franchise with very die hard fans that just can't seem to put it all together. The Drive. The Fumble. Moving the Team. Tim Couch. It goes on and on.

2. Bills. Another team that enjoyed success years ago. 4 Super Bowl losses has to make you quite snake bitten and they get a bonus over the Vikes because they were in a row.

3. The Lions. Had success in the 90s, and are horrid now. Don't think they rate as high because their fan base isn't quite as rabid as the Browns.

4. Vikings. The Bills light. Super Bowl losses, the 98 playoff loss. Consistently a good team that can't get over the hump.

5. Saints. One of the few remaining teams to never have even been to a Super Bowl. Hurricane Katrina scores them some bonus points.

6. Bengals. This team has been bad ever since Paul Brown passes away. In 2005, their one moment of hope, was dashed when Palmer's knee blew up. So goes life as a Bengal fan. I wouldn't be surprised if they were higher, especially if they factor in Greg Cook.

7. Cardinals. More hopeless than snake bitten.

8. Chiefs. Another of the once proud franchises. Since then, it's been several high playoff seeds gone to waste.

9. Eagles. Rabid fans always seeing talented teams come up short.

10. Jets. Always living in the Giants shadow and can never seem to do enough to get out of it.

1-6 totally agree with.

[Julio Riddols]

Don't forget the Bengals also missed the playoffs the following season after 2005 due to a roughing the passer call (ON A SACK) that cost them a game against T.B., then lost their shot at getting in late in the year with a missed chip shot FG against PIT. Those are 2 wins they didn't get that would have probably propelled them into some form of respectability, but alas, it was not to be. I didn't even mention the meltdown against San Diego, because I think that can be put on the players a bit more than a couple freak plays here and there.

I wouldn't put them in the top 2, but they should settle in at number 3 quite nicely behind the Saints and Lions. The Browns could lay claim to the spot too, but I think Cinci has had more heartbreaking setbacks. I realize I am biased, but their losses against S.F. in the 2 super bowl appearances they made were also both killers, and then theres Greg Cook and what could have been.. The Carson/Chris Henry double injury in the 05 playoffs, and recent injuries to first round picks David Pollack and Chris Perry, who both looked like future stars before being eaten by their injuries.

[Galaril]

My Top (Bottom?) Ten

1. Detroit Lions
2. Cleveland Browns
3. New Orleans Saints
4. Buffalo
5. Houston Oilers/Titans
6. Minnesota Vikings
7. Atlanta Falcons
8. Philadelphia Eagles
9. Houston Texans
10.San Diego

[dolfin]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

If you are looking at just the last 10 to 15 years, you'd have to put both SF and Oakland on the list in place of the Bucs and Vikings.

Last 10-12 years I'd put the Cowboys up there pretty high.

[Alan T]

I have a hard time believing anyone with multiple super bowl championships in the last 25 years could possibly be on the list. If San Francisco or Dallas or the like end up on the list, it is a bogus list

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Masked

The Saints probably have the single best play to demonstrate being snakebit. About 5 years ago, they scored a miracle 75 yard TD on the last play of the game using about 5 laterals only to miss the extra point that would have tied the game.

Thank you SO much for reminding me about that. Yep, that was a franchise-defining play right there. Knocked them out of playoff contention, too. It was the second-to-last week of the season.

[JediKooter]

Definitely the Chargers should be on that list. The Holy Roller game being one instance that comes to mind. Then the freezer bowl game against the Bengals in the AFC Championship game.

I also remember watching a Chargers/Steelers game back in the early 80s and the Chargers had a reciever named Duckworth and he had his defender beat, Fouts throws it to him, the ball hits Duckworth's heel and lands in the defenders hands who then turns around and runs it back for a touchdown.

Of course, then there's Ryan Leaf...

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Of course, then there's Ryan Leaf...

Since Leaf's life has pretty much become a disaster, I think, in hindsight, that he should have just embraced the role as villian to the city of San Diego.

He could have spent his post-football life doing things like breaking into the San Diego Zoo and letting out animals. And just going through downtown and spitting in people's food at sidewalk cafes. Maybe pooping in the occassional yard.

Whenever the legislature met, he could vocally lobby to have funds taken away from San Diego.

During city fairs, he could be the guy in the dunking booth--I'm picturing a mutual thing here between him and the city. Almost like an anti-mascot or something.

Of course, he would have done all of this while wearing his Chargers uniform. Otherwise, it would not have been funny.

(Nothing against San Deigo personally. I've never been there. It just seems like a wasted opportunity to have gotten something out of Leaf.)

[Chubby]

If the Chits can win then so can the Bills!

[Warhammer]

I think two that should be up there are the Chargers, for the reasons given, and the Rams.

The Rams had some of the best teams in the league in the 70s. They went to the NFC Conference Championship game 3 or 4 straight years, only to lose to the Cowboys or Vikings in each one. When they finally get to the Super Bowl, they face the Steelers. They knock out Lynn Swann, only to get beaten on two plays in the fourth quarter that the Steelers couldn't get to work during any of their practices leading up to the game. In 1985, they finally breakthrough the 49ers lock on the division to make it to the NFC Championship and run into the '85 Bears. 1989, they lose a game to the 49ers late in the season which they should have won, and could have possibly won them the division. They get back to the Conference Championships and get blasted by the same 49ers team. They win Super Bowl XXXIV, and then make it to Super Bowl XXXVI only to see the start of Tom Brady's legend.

You could make a good case for the Philadelphia Eagles, focusing on the early 2000s when they go to the conference championships each year only to see it be someone else's year.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Don't forget the Bengals also missed the playoffs the following season after 2005 due to a roughing the passer call (ON A SACK) that cost them a game against T.B., then lost their shot at getting in late in the year with a missed chip shot FG against PIT. Those are 2 wins they didn't get that would have probably propelled them into some form of respectability, but alas, it was not to be. I didn't even mention the meltdown against San Diego, because I think that can be put on the players a bit more than a couple freak plays here and there.

I wouldn't put them in the top 2, but they should settle in at number 3 quite nicely behind the Saints and Lions. The Browns could lay claim to the spot too, but I think Cinci has had more heartbreaking setbacks. I realize I am biased, but their losses against S.F. in the 2 super bowl appearances they made were also both killers, and then theres Greg Cook and what could have been.. The Carson/Chris Henry double injury in the 05 playoffs, and recent injuries to first round picks David Pollack and Chris Perry, who both looked like future stars before being eaten by their injuries.

You can put in the Ki-Jana Cater injury on his first carry. In addition, in 2006, they missed an extra point against Denver that would have sent the game to OT...had they won the game, the game against Pittsburgh would not have mattered.

Also remember the night before the 88/89 super bowl Stanley Wilson reintrouduced his cocaine habit...was a massive loss for them as well as Krumrie's broken leg.

[rowech]

Also for added heartbreak, the missed extra point for the Bengals happened during a Christmas Eve game.

[RomaGoth]

Is this a list of inept franchises or hard-luck franchises?

Inept = Lions, Browns, Bengals
Hard-luck = Saints, Falcons, Bills, Vikings

I would define an inept franchise as one that is unable to make a good decision for the betterment of the team (see: Lions hiring Matt Millen, ruining Barry Sanders' career, Scott Mitchell trade, the ridiculous plethora of WR's they drafted, and the general management of the team by the owners).

I would define a hard-luck franchise as one that really does make decent decisions, but for whatever reason things tend to go wrong (see: Falcons and Michael Vick, Bills getting to 4 super bowls but losing them all and running into the Cowboy juggernaut of the 90's, and the Vikings getting to 4 super bowls but losing).

I would also mention that the Saints made a really good trade when they unloaded Ricky Williams to the Dolphins, they just had bad luck with McAllister getting injured.

The Oakland Raiders are in a class by themselves, the only thing that keeps them separated from the Lions is the super bowl wins.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Since Leaf's life has pretty much become a disaster, I think, in hindsight, that he should have just embraced the role as villian to the city of San Diego.

He could have spent his post-football life doing things like breaking into the San Diego Zoo and letting out animals. And just going through downtown and spitting in people's food at sidewalk cafes. Maybe pooping in the occassional yard.

Whenever the legislature met, he could vocally lobby to have funds taken away from San Diego.

During city fairs, he could be the guy in the dunking booth--I'm picturing a mutual thing here between him and the city. Almost like an anti-mascot or something.

Of course, he would have done all of this while wearing his Chargers uniform. Otherwise, it would not have been funny.

(Nothing against San Deigo personally. I've never been there. It just seems like a wasted opportunity to have gotten something out of Leaf.)

Haha!!! Yes, he would have to have his uniform on for sure. I can see him now, trying to snipe Shamu from the tower at Sea World or melting all the legos at LegoLand or scaring away all the fans from Padres games...oh wait, nevermind on that last one.

He could have been San Diego's Joker. He could have made San Diego a virtual west coast Gotham City.

Defintely a perpetual train wreck Leaf is.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

The Oakland Raiders are in a class by themselves, the only thing that keeps them separated from the Lions is the super bowl wins.

They also up until this latest 6 year stinker of a run, had the highest win% among all NFL teams, three superbowl victories, five appearances, a stories franchise. A list for the last 6 years? Definitely, but all time the Raiders don't belong on this list at all.

[Khorium]

IMO, the Vikings are probably the best franchise in any sport never to win a title.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Danny

They also up until this latest 6 year stinker of a run, had the highest win% among all NFL teams, three superbowl victories, five appearances, a stories franchise. A list for the last 6 years? Definitely, but all time the Raiders don't belong on this list at all.

Agreed. I really do hope they take the hard-luck approach rather than the just plain bad approach to this. You certainly have a better story when you talk about hard-luck.

[boberot]

Two more things to consider regarding the snakebitten Bills:

"Wide Right."
Those two words have become iconic and will send a chill down a Bills fan's spine every time it is uttered. Has a team's cosmic futility ever been summed up so succinctly?

The Music City Miracle
It's the playoffs of the 1999-2000 season. Wade Phillips tweaks the fates by starting Rob Johnson [*uncontrollable shudder*] instead of the beloved Doug Flutie, who had started 15 games and taken the team to the playoffs.

Despite that, the Bills take a 16-15 lead on a Doug Christie FG with 16 seconds left in the game. Bills kickoff and the rest is history. They have not been to the playoffs since.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by boberot

"Wide Right."
Those two words have become iconic and will send a chill down a Bills fan's spine every time it is uttered. Has a team's cosmic futility ever been summed up so succinctly?

Yes: Florida State (vs Miami).

[larrymcg421]

Dolphins

*The only year Marino gets to the Superbowl, he faces one of the best teams in league history, a 15-1 49ers squad.

*They go 1-2 in the 1987 strike games, costing them a playoff spot.

*See: Smith, Sammie.

*In 1993, they have the best talent around Marino since 84 (maybe even better), and Marino breaks his achilles and is injured for the first time in his career.

*Surrounding talent is so good in 1993, they run their record to 9-2 even without Marino. Scott Mitchell goes down. Doug Pederson and Steve DeBerg take over. Mitchell comes back and isn't the same.

*See: Stoyanovich, Pete.

*Yatil Green back to back ACL tears.

*Jimmy Johnson goes blind and doesn't notice that Randy Moss's name is still available on the draft board in 1998.

*Jimmy Johnson has a draft day deal to move up and draft Edgerrin James. The Colts ruin it by picking James instead of Williams.

*Dave Wannstedt is not involved in a horrible car crash, and is healthy enough to be hired as coach the Dolphins.

*Cam Cameron's parents have sex sometime in May of 1960.

*Ed Reed defies all laws of time, space, gravity, and physics to intercept a Chad Pennington pass in the end zone during the 2008 playoffs.

*The NFL has unfairly decreed that the Dolphins are not allowed to have a Wide Receiver on their roster.

[ISiddiqui]

Early 70s makes any nomination of the Dolphins laughable. DENIED!

[Warhammer]

Agreed. The Dolphins from '70-'85 were one of the best teams in the league period.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

*Dave Wannstedt is not involved in a horrible car crash, and is healthy enough to be hired as coach the Dolphins.

I LOL'ed.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Early 70s makes any nomination of the Dolphins laughable. DENIED!

I thought we were going for more recent stuff. Anyways, I don't think the Dolphins are at the top of the list. I was more just having fun with the premise.

[Thomkal]

Its nice to see my Cards not high on this list.

[Khorium]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Early 70s makes any nomination of the Dolphins laughable. DENIED!

Seriously. You have 1972. Even if the Patsies hadn't choked at 18-1, you'd still have nothing to complain about.

[sachmo71]

I don't see how the Saints can be anywhere below 1. Detroit and Cleveland have had SOME success.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I don't see how the Saints can be anywhere below 1. Detroit and Cleveland have had SOME success.

The Saints have won twice as many playoff games as the Lions have over the last half a century.

[albionmoonlight]

Bonus snakebitten-ness for the Browns--they had Bill Belichick as a coach when he sucked and then saw him leave to become a possible top 5 all time coach with another team.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by boberot

The Music City Miracle
It's the playoffs of the 1999-2000 season. Wade Phillips tweaks the fates by starting Rob Johnson [*uncontrollable shudder*] instead of the beloved Doug Flutie, who had started 15 games and taken the team to the playoffs.

Despite that, the Bills take a 16-15 lead on a Doug Christie FG with 16 seconds left in the game. Bills kickoff and the rest is history. They have not been to the playoffs since.

One of the things I remember about that game is the fact that Johnson actually played really well, especially in the clutch. To lead them on what appeared to be the game winning drive, even while losing his shoe on one play and running around and still completing a pass (or running for a first down or something... i cant recall precisely), was massive. Of course it was all forgotten as soon as the kickoff got returned. It was a really great game overall.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Bonus snakebitten-ness for the Browns--they had Bill Belichick as a coach when he sucked and then saw him leave to become a possible top 5 all time coach with another team.

That works huge for the Jets too. The guy resigned after like 1 day as coach only to move to New England.

edit: And by the way, I consider him a thief and a scumbag for doing so. Before Leon Hess died they reworked his deal to give him a 1 million dollar bonus for one of those successful seasons they had, and ensure that he would succeed Parcells as coach. Then Hess died, and Bellicheck took the dead man's money and ran.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Dolphins

*The only year Marino gets to the Superbowl, he faces one of the best teams in league history, a 15-1 49ers squad.

*They go 1-2 in the 1987 strike games, costing them a playoff spot.

*See: Smith, Sammie.

*In 1993, they have the best talent around Marino since 84 (maybe even better), and Marino breaks his achilles and is injured for the first time in his career.

*Surrounding talent is so good in 1993, they run their record to 9-2 even without Marino. Scott Mitchell goes down. Doug Pederson and Steve DeBerg take over. Mitchell comes back and isn't the same.

*See: Stoyanovich, Pete.

*Yatil Green back to back ACL tears.

*Jimmy Johnson goes blind and doesn't notice that Randy Moss's name is still available on the draft board in 1998.

*Jimmy Johnson has a draft day deal to move up and draft Edgerrin James. The Colts ruin it by picking James instead of Williams.

*Dave Wannstedt is not involved in a horrible car crash, and is healthy enough to be hired as coach the Dolphins.

*Cam Cameron's parents have sex sometime in May of 1960.

*Ed Reed defies all laws of time, space, gravity, and physics to intercept a Chad Pennington pass in the end zone during the 2008 playoffs.

*The NFL has unfairly decreed that the Dolphins are not allowed to have a Wide Receiver on their roster.

I was pretty much going to pick the Dolphins as well because although we don't have major stuff happen we have a bunch of minor stuff that kills us.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yes: Florida State (vs Miami).

I will be bumping this thread again in Sept because I am certain you just jinx'd us with that comment.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Don't forget the Bengals also missed the playoffs the following season after 2005 due to a roughing the passer call (ON A SACK) that cost them a game against T.B., then lost their shot at getting in late in the year with a missed chip shot FG against PIT. Those are 2 wins they didn't get that would have probably propelled them into some form of respectability, but alas, it was not to be. I didn't even mention the meltdown against San Diego, because I think that can be put on the players a bit more than a couple freak plays here and there.

I wouldn't put them in the top 2, but they should settle in at number 3 quite nicely behind the Saints and Lions. The Browns could lay claim to the spot too, but I think Cinci has had more heartbreaking setbacks. I realize I am biased, but their losses against S.F. in the 2 super bowl appearances they made were also both killers, and then theres Greg Cook and what could have been.. The Carson/Chris Henry double injury in the 05 playoffs, and recent injuries to first round picks David Pollack and Chris Perry, who both looked like future stars before being eaten by their injuries.

Don't forget Ki-Jana Carter. Torn ACL in the preseason, and never was a decent back.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Don't forget Ki-Jana Carter. Torn ACL in the preseason, and never was a decent back.

Ki-Jana Carter the first person who I think about when I think of a BUST.

[fantom1979]

Carter is on the list... Blair Thomas (ahead of Emmitt Smith) is on the top of my list.