Employer counter offers

Ghost Econ · 08-19-2021, 10:40 AM

Why is it so hard for employers to just pay what they think you're actually worth?

Turned in my notice for a new job with a 25% pay increase and now my current employer is doing a full court press to keep me and telling me to name my price. Yes, I enjoy my ego being stroked, but doesn't it also say how little you respected me that you know you've underpaid me significantly the last decade? I tried to name my price 2 years ago and the best they could do was 3% when I had no leverage.

I hate these stupid games.

NobodyHere · 08-19-2021, 11:08 AM

I hear you as I'm in a similiar situation.

I think leverage is the key word here. If you're working for x salary, then there's no reason for them to continue thinking you won't keep on working on that salary unless you have a better offer on the table.

Given that there's a supposed labor shortage; I recently submitted my resume on Indeed, and immediately got calls from companies wanting to interview me for positions that start at well over what I currently make. Some little birdie told my manager this and I recently got called into his office to talk about my future with the company. I told him I wanted a raise or I will be looking elsewhere. I never would've asked for a raise if I hadn't submitted my resume on Indeed because I wasn't sure what my leverage was.

Arles · 08-19-2021, 03:38 PM

I'm involved with hiring and retention (on a non-HR base) with my current company as a Manager. In our annual reviews, we look at market rate vs salary and try to bring underpaid people up as much as possible. The problem is we only get so much for raises so if we give someone 5+%, other people have to get under 2% to balance out.

We often promote people to new positions to get around that, but there's a limit there as well. I think the corp world is doing better with understanding there is a "cost" in replacing good people that you can avoid by being proactive, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be.

Ksyrup · 08-20-2021, 07:24 AM

I did this a couple of times early in my career, pursuing offers I knew I didn't want to accept and using them to get more where I was, but the past 15 years, I've switched jobs 3 times for positions I didn't seek out and never considered staying where I was no matter how hard they pushed. It was always about things beyond money that convinced me to leave, even if I wasn't actively looking to leave. Once someone gave me the opportunity and for more money, it was a no-brainer.

Ghost Econ · 08-20-2021, 08:19 AM

Yeah, they countered and actually probably beat it with performance incentives, but I went home and thought about it and realized I didn't want to do this job anymore, especially when getting paid more would be based on me weighing taking time off versus being more productive. I did that when I was young and dumb and it literally broke me. I have a family now and can't afford to do that for a few extra thousands.

Boss barely said 5 words to me when I turned it down.

Toddzilla · 08-20-2021, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Why is it so hard for employers to just pay what they think you're actually worth?

Why would they? It is in their best interest to pay you as little as possible. You're worth whatever they can get you to accept.

albionmoonlight · 08-20-2021, 09:30 AM

One nice thing about working for the fed is that that dance just isn't part of it.

On the one hand, I can't negotiate for higher pay. One the other hand, they can't lowball me. There's a literal salary schedule. That's it.

So I'm not paid as much as I could be in the private sector. But I'm not having to wonder if I should go in and ask for a raise.

For my personality, this works well.

sterlingice · 08-20-2021, 09:34 AM

State employees here even have salaries posted online so you can see what your peers, management, etc, are making

SI

PilotMan · 08-20-2021, 12:41 PM

Everyone should know what I make. It's plastered all over the internet. I pay 2% to ALPA, but the benefits from group (federally mandated) negotiations are so worth it. It's one more nice thing about this career I don't need to worry about. I feel for those of you who fight every day for what you get.

NobodyHere · 08-28-2021, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I hear you as I'm in a similiar situation.

I think leverage is the key word here. If you're working for x salary, then there's no reason for them to continue thinking you won't keep on working on that salary unless you have a better offer on the table.

Given that there's a supposed labor shortage; I recently submitted my resume on Indeed, and immediately got calls from companies wanting to interview me for positions that start at well over what I currently make. Some little birdie told my manager this and I recently got called into his office to talk about my future with the company. I told him I wanted a raise or I will be looking elsewhere. I never would've asked for a raise if I hadn't submitted my resume on Indeed because I wasn't sure what my leverage was.

Well I got the raise I asked for and I can finally afford dinner tonight.

I think I should've asked for more because they accepted my offer a little too quickly.

GrantDawg · 08-28-2021, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well I got the raise I asked for and I can finally afford dinner tonight.

I think I should've asked for more because they accepted my offer a little too quickly.

I know that instant regret feeling well. When I started this job I was asked what I needed to get started. I went with what I thought was high thinking he would propose something less. Instead, he gave me exactly that. It made me feel like I left money on the table.

Ksyrup · 08-28-2021, 08:25 AM

My last move, I reached for the stars and got it. Now, I had some facts supporting my counteroffer based on the increased job responsibilities and the benefits I was giving up, but I added a bit more cream on top and they supplied the cherry. I also kinda had them over a barrel as I was clearly perfect for the job and was one of maybe two or three people within two hours of our office who had the particular expertise needed for the job, not to mention the only one who had previously worked with the other executives they were planning to hire.

I went as high as I thought I could without coming off as holding them hostage and it worked out.

NobodyHere · 08-28-2021, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

My last move, I reached for the stars and got it. Now, I had some facts supporting my counteroffer based on the increased job responsibilities and the benefits I was giving up, but I added a bit more cream on top and they supplied the cherry. I also kinda had them over a barrel as I was clearly perfect for the job and was one of maybe two or three people within two hours of our office who had the particular expertise needed for the job, not to mention the only one who had previously worked with the other executives they were planning to hire.

I went as high as I thought I could without coming off as holding them hostage and it worked out.

Wanna be my agent when I negotiate my next raise?

sterlingice · 08-28-2021, 09:33 AM

Ksyrup is... Scott Boras!

SI

Ksyrup · 08-28-2021, 01:05 PM

I had a decent bit of leverage. I was literally the only candidate for the job so it made more sense for them to pay me than to take time to try to find someone who wouldn't have been as good a fit as me. Prime example of right place, right time.

molson · 08-28-2021, 01:31 PM

At my job we're kind of pawns in the indefinite battle between the head of the agency and the state legislature.

So there's no games to play, but, the more aggressive the agency head fights those battles, which are important battles that he is on the right side on, the less we make and the more tenuous our jobs can be. Which is an interesting dynamic to have. Sometimes you can be proud of something that's happened, but also know that it might suck for your job and income.

Ksyrup · 08-28-2021, 02:11 PM

I did the attorney working for the state thing for the first 4 years of my career, learned enough to be dangerous in private practice, and cashed in. I think I could have worked my way to general counsel - a woman who started a couple of years after me is now GC - but I'm not sure I would have enjoyed the politics that go along with it. The guy who was GC when I started was exiled to an adjacent quasi-state agency for a decade before the politics came back around and he was able to go back.

I really did not enjoy the marketing aspects of private practice. Working as in-house counsel has been great.

08-19-2021, 11:08 AM	#2
NobodyHere Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2013	I hear you as I'm in a similiar situation. I think leverage is the key word here. If you're working for x salary, then there's no reason for them to continue thinking you won't keep on working on that salary unless you have a better offer on the table. Given that there's a supposed labor shortage; I recently submitted my resume on Indeed, and immediately got calls from companies wanting to interview me for positions that start at well over what I currently make. Some little birdie told my manager this and I recently got called into his office to talk about my future with the company. I told him I wanted a raise or I will be looking elsewhere. I never would've asked for a raise if I hadn't submitted my resume on Indeed because I wasn't sure what my leverage was. __________________ "I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney"

08-19-2021, 03:38 PM	#3
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	I'm involved with hiring and retention (on a non-HR base) with my current company as a Manager. In our annual reviews, we look at market rate vs salary and try to bring underpaid people up as much as possible. The problem is we only get so much for raises so if we give someone 5+%, other people have to get under 2% to balance out. We often promote people to new positions to get around that, but there's a limit there as well. I think the corp world is doing better with understanding there is a "cost" in replacing good people that you can avoid by being proactive, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

08-20-2021, 07:24 AM	#4
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I did this a couple of times early in my career, pursuing offers I knew I didn't want to accept and using them to get more where I was, but the past 15 years, I've switched jobs 3 times for positions I didn't seek out and never considered staying where I was no matter how hard they pushed. It was always about things beyond money that convinced me to leave, even if I wasn't actively looking to leave. Once someone gave me the opportunity and for more money, it was a no-brainer. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

08-20-2021, 09:34 AM	#8
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	State employees here even have salaries posted online so you can see what your peers, management, etc, are making SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

08-20-2021, 12:41 PM	#9
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	Everyone should know what I make. It's plastered all over the internet. I pay 2% to ALPA, but the benefits from group (federally mandated) negotiations are so worth it. It's one more nice thing about this career I don't need to worry about. I feel for those of you who fight every day for what you get. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

08-20-2021, 08:19 AM	#5
Ghost Econ College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2020	Yeah, they countered and actually probably beat it with performance incentives, but I went home and thought about it and realized I didn't want to do this job anymore, especially when getting paid more would be based on me weighing taking time off versus being more productive. I did that when I was young and dumb and it literally broke me. I have a family now and can't afford to do that for a few extra thousands. Boss barely said 5 words to me when I turned it down.

08-20-2021, 09:30 AM	#7
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	One nice thing about working for the fed is that that dance just isn't part of it. On the one hand, I can't negotiate for higher pay. One the other hand, they can't lowball me. There's a literal salary schedule. That's it. So I'm not paid as much as I could be in the private sector. But I'm not having to wonder if I should go in and ask for a raise. For my personality, this works well.

08-28-2021, 08:25 AM	#12
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	My last move, I reached for the stars and got it. Now, I had some facts supporting my counteroffer based on the increased job responsibilities and the benefits I was giving up, but I added a bit more cream on top and they supplied the cherry. I also kinda had them over a barrel as I was clearly perfect for the job and was one of maybe two or three people within two hours of our office who had the particular expertise needed for the job, not to mention the only one who had previously worked with the other executives they were planning to hire. I went as high as I thought I could without coming off as holding them hostage and it worked out. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

08-28-2021, 09:33 AM	#14
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Ksyrup is... Scott Boras! SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

08-28-2021, 01:05 PM	#15
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I had a decent bit of leverage. I was literally the only candidate for the job so it made more sense for them to pay me than to take time to try to find someone who wouldn't have been as good a fit as me. Prime example of right place, right time. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

08-28-2021, 01:31 PM	#16
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	At my job we're kind of pawns in the indefinite battle between the head of the agency and the state legislature. So there's no games to play, but, the more aggressive the agency head fights those battles, which are important battles that he is on the right side on, the less we make and the more tenuous our jobs can be. Which is an interesting dynamic to have. Sometimes you can be proud of something that's happened, but also know that it might suck for your job and income.

08-28-2021, 02:11 PM	#17
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I did the attorney working for the state thing for the first 4 years of my career, learned enough to be dangerous in private practice, and cashed in. I think I could have worked my way to general counsel - a woman who started a couple of years after me is now GC - but I'm not sure I would have enjoyed the politics that go along with it. The guy who was GC when I started was exiled to an adjacent quasi-state agency for a decade before the politics came back around and he was able to go back. I really did not enjoy the marketing aspects of private practice. Working as in-house counsel has been great. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 08-28-2021 at 02:12 PM.

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