Werewolf XVII: Return of the Wolves - Page 21

hoopsguy · 11-21-2005, 06:37 AM

Post #996 from AE:
[/quote]Nice. Hoops spends 30 minutes viewing the thread without defending himself. Why? My guess is he's having to think of another way of spinning this on me.[quote]

When you actually try to make arguments based on logic, and care about the content you post, it can take some time to type. It wasn't easy to find all the threads with post counts, then total them, but I wanted to show the fallacy behind your paper-thin arguments.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:38 AM

And I'm simply not going to let this disappear:

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

ardent enthusiast][/b]
I'm also gaining suspicion on, and I hate to say it, hoopsguy. Hoops cast a vote on me the first day, the last vote on Sndvls, and a vote on dubb93 of no consequence at a critical time. My guess would be the wolves would spread their votes out on day 1, perhaps one of them "helping" us along in killing a fellow villager. That fits as Sndvls wasted his vote on the first day. Hoops has provided a lot of information, but that may be to help us think he's a good guy. I may be out in left field with this, but the picture seems to be getting clear for me as I type this. Hoops would also (know, originally I left out this word) RPI was a villager and that he would be hung. If hoops is a wolf, he'd known the true identity of both dubb93 and kingfc (whom I suspect is a wolf as well). Perhaps he cast that "wasted" vote on dubb93 so he could make sure that kingfc was "safe", and not draw suspicion for piling on to RPI. For example, my suspicion of Blade6119 rose when he cast the last vote on RPI.

I've got to leave for class again now, and will be back on later tonight. Let's talk about this. Is HOOPS a WOLF?

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Post #996 from AE:

Nice. Hoops spends 30 minutes viewing the thread without defending himself. Why? My guess is he's having to think of another way of spinning this on me.

Quote:

When you're a wolf and you have to lie all the time it can be hard.

Fixed that for you.

Agreed.

SirFozzie · 11-21-2005, 06:39 AM

Sheesh, this is worse then the BrianD and I fight over the Doctor reveal.

This is basically a fight to lynch each other, but it's handbags at two paces level slap fighting

(gets popcorn)

hoopsguy · 11-21-2005, 06:40 AM

No, the Silo is not OK with me (I have no idea what the Silo is). I've already expressed that I think that outside betting on this game within the thread changes the game dynamics at least as much as posting PMs so I'm not going to continue to go down this path.

It doesn't change the fact that I know that I'm right and will be collecting on our first wager, but going forward I'm going to try and think about the integrity of the game (overall) more than proving my innocence to you and the rest of the participants in this instance of the game.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:42 AM

www.silopizza.com

You could ask barkeep about it. That's what my wager is that you're a wolf. You said that bet is on, and that I just had to name it. It's named. Don't chicken out, wolf.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Sheesh, this is worse then the BrianD and I fight over the Doctor reveal.

This is basically a fight to lynch each other, but it's handbags at two paces level slap fighting

(gets popcorn)

Glad you can enjoy it.

Hopefully, we'll have wolf for dinner.

hoopsguy · 11-21-2005, 06:44 AM

Re-posting your own argument every 10 posts doesn't make it valid.

Re-typing posts and saying "fixed that for you" doesn't make it valid. Although I find a certain amount of irony in your re-type of Post #1003.

I do have a job, which means that I'm not going to have the luxury to reply to every single piece of propoganda you put out today. So go nuts - hopefully we have enough people participating in this game that don't want to encourage the arguments of a ten year old acting out.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:45 AM

Dola, I think you're not OK with this because you're a wolf. That's okay, just admit it, we'll hang you, you won't have to pay at that point. As long as you come clean about it.

(IE Quit lieing.)

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:46 AM

Listen, hoops. I like you. I like the game you've played. I've just called you out. I'm all in. You've got to be a wolf, or I'm no ardent enthusiast. It's plain and simple.

SirFozzie · 11-21-2005, 06:50 AM

Oooh.. Ardent Enthusiast puts 8,176 Posts on the Line.

What's your new username if you lose, AE?

Poli · 11-21-2005, 06:52 AM

LOL. It makes too much sense. Hoops has to be a wolf, or he's paired with a wolf.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 07:00 AM

Time to do a role reveal. I feel I have to. I'm about to go to work myself, get some dental work done, and possibly be on the road.

I'm a DreamWeaver.

Neon gave me a secret role, and without quoting the original PM, here it is:

Should I be able to survive through the third day, I was allowed to submit a night action. I was able to access the dreams of one player. Since I felt hoops at the time had wasted his vote on dubb, and wasn't satisfied for his reason why, I chose hoopsguy.

Obviously, I can't quote the PM I received. However, when I tried to access hoops dream, it was really hard and when he did sleep he seemed troubled, and filled with anger. His dreams were full of bloodlust.

Emphasis mine.

I can no longer use my DreamWeaver role. I really didn't want to put this out there, but there you have it. This is why I "suddenly" turned on hoopsguy.

He is a wolf. We have to lynch him. We HAVE to lynch him.

Blade6119 · 11-21-2005, 07:05 AM

Neon games are always soo much fun...despite me dying i want to thank neon for hosting such great games that always hold suprises it seems...THNX NEON!

hoopsguy · 11-21-2005, 07:09 AM

Hmm, I didn't realize this is a secret roles game. I'm pretty sure that there was not anything in Post #1 suggesting it was. FWIW, I thought you had more credibility before this post by playing an aggressive game and daring the seer to come out an clear me. But now you are saying that there is an extra seer role in the game? Sure ...

I don't think there is any room whatsoever at this point to assume that both AE and I are villagers. Obviously my vote on AE stands and I'm hoping that other people see through this the same way we did with SnDvls' fake blessed move.

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Time to do a role reveal. I feel I have to. I'm about to go to work myself, get some dental work done, and possibly be on the road.

I'm a DreamWeaver.

Neon gave me a secret role, and without quoting the original PM, here it is:

Should I be able to survive through the third day, I was allowed to submit a night action. I was able to access the dreams of one player. Since I felt hoops at the time had wasted his vote on dubb, and wasn't satisfied for his reason why, I chose hoopsguy.

Obviously, I can't quote the PM I received. However, when I tried to access hoops dream, it was really hard and when he did sleep he seemed troubled, and filled with anger. His dreams were full of bloodlust.

Emphasis mine.

I can no longer use my DreamWeaver role. I really didn't want to put this out there, but there you have it. This is why I "suddenly" turned on hoopsguy.

He is a wolf. We have to lynch him. We HAVE to lynch him.

Wow. Just wow. This sounds extremely credible. The problem with it is that this is a very important vote today since it's pretty much the end of the game if we choose wrongly.

I see two possibilities here:

1. hoops is a wolf and there are hidden roles in this game that weren't stated previously (even in the rules).

2. AE is a wolf and is attempting to do an endgame gambit so that we lose.

I have no idea which way to lean on this...although, this is an extremely convenient reveal. Then again, so was Pass' reveal as well...

hoopsguy · 11-21-2005, 09:28 AM

I really don't think it sounds "extremely credible" but obviously I'm biased by my bloodlust-filled dreams.

Dubb, is this what you expected from AE? Or were you expecting him to suggest that he is the seer without saying it? That would explain his dead-on certainty in accusing me while I was not as certain in accusing him.

However this plays out, I don't want to be hung today, have AE around tomorrow (wolves don't eat their own), and have him say, "Oh, I was lying yesterday when I said I was the Dreamweaver to provide cover from wolves the next night! I'm really the seer! And {insert name here} is also a wolf! I can't believe the wolves let me live again!"

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 09:44 AM

Upon further reflection...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I can no longer use my DreamWeaver role. I really didn't want to put this out there, but there you have it. This is why I "suddenly" turned on hoopsguy.

This seems really out of place. If I understand correctly, this is a one-time thing...if it is, then why wouldn't you want to put this out there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Time to do a role reveal. I feel I have to. I'm about to go to work myself, get some dental work done, and possibly be on the road.

This seems very convenient as well. I understand real life intrudes, but now we can't question you about this. If you make it back, could you explain my comments to the first quote above?

dubb93 · 11-21-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Time to do a role reveal. I feel I have to. I'm about to go to work myself, get some dental work done, and possibly be on the road.

I'm a DreamWeaver.

Neon gave me a secret role, and without quoting the original PM, here it is:

Should I be able to survive through the third day, I was allowed to submit a night action. I was able to access the dreams of one player. Since I felt hoops at the time had wasted his vote on dubb, and wasn't satisfied for his reason why, I chose hoopsguy.

Obviously, I can't quote the PM I received. However, when I tried to access hoops dream, it was really hard and when he did sleep he seemed troubled, and filled with anger. His dreams were full of bloodlust.

Emphasis mine.

I can no longer use my DreamWeaver role. I really didn't want to put this out there, but there you have it. This is why I "suddenly" turned on hoopsguy.

He is a wolf. We have to lynch him. We HAVE to lynch him.

UHHHH....thats not what I expected at all.

I think Ardent needs to come on back in here and do some explaining b/c I was under the impression he was the seer. It made sense to me last night. He was so sure RPI was innocent(night 1 view), so sure Barkeep was innocent(night 2 view), and positive Hoopsguy was a wolf(night 3 view) despite a pretty crappy argument.

He also intentionally steered the conversation toward the seer, but did so subtlely, in a way that didn't seem too over the top.

I hate to be posting this as a villager, but I see 2 possibilities.

1. He is trying to make it seem his role is used up, when he is really the seer.

2. This is an endgame situation for the wolves.

For the time being...

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY

Mr. Wednesday · 11-21-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Hoops here is trying to call out the herbalist by the chance that pass wasn't. If hoops was a villager, would he want this? I highly doubt it. Villagers want good guys with secret roles to lay low.

However, if hoops was a wolf, then he knew that Pass wasn't a wolf -- would he be trying to get a reveal on a different herbalist because he thought Pass was a faking villager? Why would a villager fake like that? I don't think that this bit makes any sense as evidence of hoops being a wolf.

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 10:05 AM

I'm trying to figure out if lurker is someone in the game, but the birthday doesn't correspond to anyone else.

dubb93 · 11-21-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I'm trying to figure out if lurker is someone in the game, but the birthday doesn't correspond to anyone else.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-21-2005, 10:10 AM

Point in favor of ardent... when you become convinced that someone is a wolf, you can get pretty emotionally involved in trying to discredit them.

The biggest issue I have, actually, is that even if he's on the up-and-up, we can't be completely sure that hoops's bloodlust means what ardent thinks it means.

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 10:11 AM

And he's still here!

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 10:12 AM

Dola, if AE's story is true, he's probably glad he didn't get a message saying the dreams were wet.

RPI-Fan · 11-21-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I'm trying to figure out if lurker is someone in the game, but the birthday doesn't correspond to anyone else.

lurker is a regular poster (I think Passacaglia's girlfriend)... I wouldn't read too much into it.

lurker · 11-21-2005, 10:17 AM

Sorry, I got curious about the game -- I'm thinking of joining one in the future. Don't read into it!

Neon_Chaos · 11-21-2005, 10:21 AM

Instead of all this betting being thrown about, how about you guys buying me a hardcopy of either FOF/TCY/FBCB and mailing it here to the Philippines?

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurker

Sorry, I got curious about the game -- I'm thinking of joining one in the future. Don't read into it!

Okey dokey. Thought you were an alt for a wolf!

Neon_Chaos · 11-21-2005, 10:28 AM

If I were a wolf, I'd just log out and read the forums as a guest.

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

If I were a wolf, I'd just log out and read the forums as a guest.

I'll try to remember that in the future!

pennywisesb · 11-21-2005, 11:08 AM

Wow. Alot has happened. I noticed some suspicion has been thrown my way, and I would expect as much with the little time I've had to participate. The good news is this week I'm in the old office with an internet connection which means I'll be able to be much more active. This whole AE/Hoops back and forth is definately interesting. I think AE's role reveal is pretty interesting and I'm convinced at this point that one or the other is a wolf. I also think that 2 of the voters for Pass are wolfs as well which means my suspicion list at this point is: AE, Hoops, RA, and McSweeny.

pennywisesb · 11-21-2005, 11:10 AM

Dola. Correction, one of the two remaining voters for Pass is a wolf. My bad.

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Dola. Correction, one of the two remaining voters for Pass is a wolf. My bad.

As I stated earlier, I know I'm not a wolf. So I can only conclude that McSweeny is.

I find it very strange that after I said this, he didn't vote for me as I voted for him. This makes him even more suspicious in my mind.

pennywisesb · 11-21-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I find it very strange that after I said this, he didn't vote for me as I voted for him. This makes him even more suspicious in my mind.

I agree.

McSweeny · 11-21-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

As I stated earlier, I know I'm not a wolf. So I can only conclude that McSweeny is.

I find it very strange that after I said this, he didn't vote for me as I voted for him. This makes him even more suspicious in my mind.

why would i vote for you? i have no idea if you are a wolf or not

Poli · 11-21-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Upon further reflection...

This seems really out of place. If I understand correctly, this is a one-time thing...if it is, then why wouldn't you want to put this out there?

This seems very convenient as well. I understand real life intrudes, but now we can't question you about this. If you make it back, could you explain my comments to the first quote above?

I'm in at work, but I can't type much. I was given the option of continuing my DreamWeaving, but if at any point I revealed the role, I would lose the ability. My goal was for this night action was to view king's dream, but now I've lost the ability. It also looks unlikely that I would have been able to, as hoop's wolf buddies would have likely had me killed tonight.

It sucks, but I had to finally make a decision on it.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 11:37 AM

Any other questions while I'm here? I don't know how much longer I can bogart this computer at work.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 11:39 AM

Another reason for the role reveal is I had to make a choice, continue my DreamWeaving, and possibly die tonight to the wolves (likely), or just cut the ties, and nail Hoops.

Since I can't argue much more that Hoops is a wolf, I decided to out myself.

Guys, we have to kill him. Don't let him get away with this.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Wow. Just wow. This sounds extremely credible. The problem with it is that this is a very important vote today since it's pretty much the end of the game if we choose wrongly.

I see two possibilities here:

1. hoops is a wolf and there are hidden roles in this game that weren't stated previously (even in the rules).

2. AE is a wolf and is attempting to do an endgame gambit so that we lose.

I have no idea which way to lean on this...although, this is an extremely convenient reveal. Then again, so was Pass' reveal as well...

It's #1. Hoops is a wolf. My mind is racing right now, but I don't see how this could conceivably be an endgame move as a wolf.

Guys, it has to happen. Hoops has to be a wolf.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY

dubb, don't do it. Do the right thing. We have to nail the wolf. We've got him. I will likely die tonight, at that point you'll know I'm the DreamWeaver.

Trust me, dubb. Hoops is the wolf.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 11:54 AM

Dang it. Where is everyone??

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I'm in at work, but I can't type much. I was given the option of continuing my DreamWeaving, but if at any point I revealed the role, I would lose the ability. My goal was for this night action was to view king's dream, but now I've lost the ability. It also looks unlikely that I would have been able to, as hoop's wolf buddies would have likely had me killed tonight.

It sucks, but I had to finally make a decision on it.

Makes sense then. I assume you forgot to mention that previously.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 12:09 PM

I've only got a minute or two. RA, any questions??

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

It's #1. Hoops is a wolf. My mind is racing right now, but I don't see how this could conceivably be an endgame move as a wolf.

One sec...

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I've only got a minute or two. RA, any questions??

Answered mine. Thanks. One sec, and I'll explain how it could possibly be an endgame for the wolves.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Makes sense then. I assume you forgot to mention that previously.

Sorry man, I was running late, but I wanted to make sure Hoops was declared a wolf. It was a late decision. I nearly walked out the door to go to the dentist (dental), but I came back because I had to make sure we nailed Hoops.

I'll likely die tonight due to the wolves. I couldn't risk it.

Poli · 11-21-2005, 12:12 PM

Gotta go, RA. Sorry dude.

Raiders Army · 11-21-2005, 12:16 PM

11 of us left. If:

There are three wolves left and
The lovers are both villagers

Then:

8-3 Villagers right now. We lynch a villager, it's 7-3, and then 6-3 after tonight. With 8 villagers left, there's a 25% chance of hitting a lover, which increases with each villager gone. That means it could possibly be 5-3 after tonight.

If we lynch a lover and the other villager dies and the wolves hit a cursed tonight, it would be 4-4.

Someone else can check my numbers, but it's a possibility at this point. Regardless, this is an important vote tonight since we're getting down in numbers.

(Remember, this is all predicated upon a lot of things so the chances of this happening are slim)

hoopsguy · 11-21-2005, 01:12 PM

I'm also busy at work - guess it is a good thing that AE and I got our mudslinging out of the way last night and this morning given our schedules today.

That said, I enjoy when I read about continuously emerging secret roles. Ardent, what Dubb posted about you playing seer is EXACTLY where I thought you were headed with your argument. A fake seer play is very high risk, but if the wolves think they have the numbers it makes sense. The idea there is "just one more day, I need to stay alive for one more day and it is over".

You didn't come out and say you were the seer, which is smart since someone else is and they know you are the wolf. Leave them just enough room to think that you are sincere rather than bogarting their role. But making up a secret role in a game that has not even hinted at secret roles is grasping. Then continuing to modify your secret role in subsequent posts is beyond suspicion. I'm stunned that you have not gotten a single vote besides mine.

I expect to be back on towards the end of the day to see this through.

11-21-2005, 06:39 AM	#1004
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Sheesh, this is worse then the BrianD and I fight over the Doctor reveal. This is basically a fight to lynch each other, but it's handbags at two paces level slap fighting (gets popcorn) __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

11-21-2005, 06:42 AM	#1006
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	www.silopizza.com You could ask barkeep about it. That's what my wager is that you're a wolf. You said that bet is on, and that I just had to name it. It's named. Don't chicken out, wolf. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 06:45 AM	#1009
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Dola, I think you're not OK with this because you're a wolf. That's okay, just admit it, we'll hang you, you won't have to pay at that point. As long as you come clean about it. (IE Quit lieing.) __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 06:46 AM	#1010
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Listen, hoops. I like you. I like the game you've played. I've just called you out. I'm all in. You've got to be a wolf, or I'm no ardent enthusiast. It's plain and simple. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 06:50 AM	#1011
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Oooh.. Ardent Enthusiast puts 8,176 Posts on the Line. What's your new username if you lose, AE? __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

11-21-2005, 06:37 AM	#1001
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Post #996 from AE: [/quote]Nice. Hoops spends 30 minutes viewing the thread without defending himself. Why? My guess is he's having to think of another way of spinning this on me.[quote] When you actually try to make arguments based on logic, and care about the content you post, it can take some time to type. It wasn't easy to find all the threads with post counts, then total them, but I wanted to show the fallacy behind your paper-thin arguments.

11-21-2005, 06:40 AM	#1005
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	No, the Silo is not OK with me (I have no idea what the Silo is). I've already expressed that I think that outside betting on this game within the thread changes the game dynamics at least as much as posting PMs so I'm not going to continue to go down this path. It doesn't change the fact that I know that I'm right and will be collecting on our first wager, but going forward I'm going to try and think about the integrity of the game (overall) more than proving my innocence to you and the rest of the participants in this instance of the game.

11-21-2005, 06:44 AM	#1008
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Re-posting your own argument every 10 posts doesn't make it valid. Re-typing posts and saying "fixed that for you" doesn't make it valid. Although I find a certain amount of irony in your re-type of Post #1003. I do have a job, which means that I'm not going to have the luxury to reply to every single piece of propoganda you put out today. So go nuts - hopefully we have enough people participating in this game that don't want to encourage the arguments of a ten year old acting out.

11-21-2005, 06:52 AM	#1012
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	LOL. It makes too much sense. Hoops has to be a wolf, or he's paired with a wolf. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 07:00 AM	#1013
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Time to do a role reveal. I feel I have to. I'm about to go to work myself, get some dental work done, and possibly be on the road. I'm a DreamWeaver. Neon gave me a secret role, and without quoting the original PM, here it is: Should I be able to survive through the third day, I was allowed to submit a night action. I was able to access the dreams of one player. Since I felt hoops at the time had wasted his vote on dubb, and wasn't satisfied for his reason why, I chose hoopsguy. Obviously, I can't quote the PM I received. However, when I tried to access hoops dream, it was really hard and when he did sleep he seemed troubled, and filled with anger. His dreams were full of bloodlust. Emphasis mine. I can no longer use my DreamWeaver role. I really didn't want to put this out there, but there you have it. This is why I "suddenly" turned on hoopsguy. He is a wolf. We have to lynch him. We HAVE to lynch him. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 07:05 AM	#1014
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Neon games are always soo much fun...despite me dying i want to thank neon for hosting such great games that always hold suprises it seems...THNX NEON! __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

11-21-2005, 07:09 AM	#1015
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Hmm, I didn't realize this is a secret roles game. I'm pretty sure that there was not anything in Post #1 suggesting it was. FWIW, I thought you had more credibility before this post by playing an aggressive game and daring the seer to come out an clear me. But now you are saying that there is an extra seer role in the game? Sure ... I don't think there is any room whatsoever at this point to assume that both AE and I are villagers. Obviously my vote on AE stands and I'm hoping that other people see through this the same way we did with SnDvls' fake blessed move.

11-21-2005, 09:28 AM	#1017
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I really don't think it sounds "extremely credible" but obviously I'm biased by my bloodlust-filled dreams. Dubb, is this what you expected from AE? Or were you expecting him to suggest that he is the seer without saying it? That would explain his dead-on certainty in accusing me while I was not as certain in accusing him. However this plays out, I don't want to be hung today, have AE around tomorrow (wolves don't eat their own), and have him say, "Oh, I was lying yesterday when I said I was the Dreamweaver to provide cover from wolves the next night! I'm really the seer! And {insert name here} is also a wolf! I can't believe the wolves let me live again!"

11-21-2005, 10:05 AM	#1021
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	I'm trying to figure out if lurker is someone in the game, but the birthday doesn't correspond to anyone else.

11-21-2005, 10:10 AM	#1023
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Point in favor of ardent... when you become convinced that someone is a wolf, you can get pretty emotionally involved in trying to discredit them. The biggest issue I have, actually, is that even if he's on the up-and-up, we can't be completely sure that hoops's bloodlust means what ardent thinks it means. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-21-2005, 10:11 AM	#1024
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	And he's still here!

11-21-2005, 10:12 AM	#1025
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Dola, if AE's story is true, he's probably glad he didn't get a message saying the dreams were wet.

11-21-2005, 10:17 AM	#1027
lurker High School JV Join Date: May 2001	Sorry, I got curious about the game -- I'm thinking of joining one in the future. Don't read into it!

11-21-2005, 10:21 AM	#1028
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Instead of all this betting being thrown about, how about you guys buying me a hardcopy of either FOF/TCY/FBCB and mailing it here to the Philippines? __________________ Come and see.

11-21-2005, 10:28 AM	#1030
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	If I were a wolf, I'd just log out and read the forums as a guest. __________________ Come and see.

11-21-2005, 11:08 AM	#1032
pennywisesb College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California	Wow. Alot has happened. I noticed some suspicion has been thrown my way, and I would expect as much with the little time I've had to participate. The good news is this week I'm in the old office with an internet connection which means I'll be able to be much more active. This whole AE/Hoops back and forth is definately interesting. I think AE's role reveal is pretty interesting and I'm convinced at this point that one or the other is a wolf. I also think that 2 of the voters for Pass are wolfs as well which means my suspicion list at this point is: AE, Hoops, RA, and McSweeny. __________________ Myspace Profile

11-21-2005, 11:10 AM	#1033
pennywisesb College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California	Dola. Correction, one of the two remaining voters for Pass is a wolf. My bad. __________________ Myspace Profile

11-21-2005, 11:37 AM	#1038
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Any other questions while I'm here? I don't know how much longer I can bogart this computer at work. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 11:39 AM	#1039
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Another reason for the role reveal is I had to make a choice, continue my DreamWeaving, and possibly die tonight to the wolves (likely), or just cut the ties, and nail Hoops. Since I can't argue much more that Hoops is a wolf, I decided to out myself. Guys, we have to kill him. Don't let him get away with this. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 11:54 AM	#1042
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Dang it. Where is everyone?? __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 12:09 PM	#1044
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I've only got a minute or two. RA, any questions?? __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 12:12 PM	#1048
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Gotta go, RA. Sorry dude. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

11-21-2005, 12:16 PM	#1049
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	11 of us left. If: There are three wolves left and The lovers are both villagers Then: 8-3 Villagers right now. We lynch a villager, it's 7-3, and then 6-3 after tonight. With 8 villagers left, there's a 25% chance of hitting a lover, which increases with each villager gone. That means it could possibly be 5-3 after tonight. If we lynch a lover and the other villager dies and the wolves hit a cursed tonight, it would be 4-4. Someone else can check my numbers, but it's a possibility at this point. Regardless, this is an important vote tonight since we're getting down in numbers. (Remember, this is all predicated upon a lot of things so the chances of this happening are slim)

11-21-2005, 01:12 PM	#1050
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm also busy at work - guess it is a good thing that AE and I got our mudslinging out of the way last night and this morning given our schedules today. That said, I enjoy when I read about continuously emerging secret roles. Ardent, what Dubb posted about you playing seer is EXACTLY where I thought you were headed with your argument. A fake seer play is very high risk, but if the wolves think they have the numbers it makes sense. The idea there is "just one more day, I need to stay alive for one more day and it is over". You didn't come out and say you were the seer, which is smart since someone else is and they know you are the wolf. Leave them just enough room to think that you are sincere rather than bogarting their role. But making up a secret role in a game that has not even hinted at secret roles is grasping. Then continuing to modify your secret role in subsequent posts is beyond suspicion. I'm stunned that you have not gotten a single vote besides mine. I expect to be back on towards the end of the day to see this through.

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