Game of Thrones on HBO

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

They were stupid both weeks. You should be annoyed/frustrated at both.

Euron being an impossible demigod got old two years ago. I just curse and roll my eyes.

[sabotai]

I'm disappointed that I missed the Starbucks cup.

[Chief Rum]

The rest of the episode was terrific, I thought. Well, outside of the ridiculous what even makes sense about this and how does a guy lugging a huge crossbow get deep into and out of a massively well guarded fortress castle Bronn scene. And Jon not saying goodbye to his freaking dire wolf. And the over the top fan service for Tormund (even if I like him too).

Jon never says he won't tell his family about his heritage in that scene with Dany. She implores him not to and ends it with an implied command that he not do it, but I think there is plenty in keeping with Jon and his character that he would feel obligated to tell his sisters this secret. I thought it was daft that he has Bran break the news but that's quibbling. Worse was doing it off-screen and not showing their reactions.

Sansa breaking her "oath" almost immediately by telling Tyrion seems in keeping with her as well, as she would regard the best result for the North as being the most critical achievement and well above her breaking her oath to her brother. It seems entirely typical of Jon to me that he would extract those oaths from Sansa and Arya and expecting that they would keep them as he would have and not understand that Sansa has a different perspective on that. Arya will keep her oath, at least (until it becomes widely known).

Jon's naivety and forthrightness and do-good nature and honor is all consistent with him. He may make stupid decisions but he's doing what the show has set him up to be. He really is Ned Stark's "son."

As for Jaime, someone above hinted at this. I think he's going to King's Landing to kill Cersei and end it. When he lists out his bad deeds to Brienne, he's running down the acts he feels most guilty about and seeing that the source of all of it was his blind obsession with Cersei. He now recognizes that she is the cancer in his life, and so long as she exists, he is susceptible to returning to the Jaime of old. This is something he feels he must do--deal with Cersei. It's a virtual guarantee that he will be the one to kill her. He also thinks he will likely die. It seems obvious to me that he broke Brienne's heart not because he had a change of heart for her, but because he knew if he didn't break it off, she would go with him and die as well.

[stevew]

So basically the only way Dany can win now is to raise dragons from the dead. Like, hundreds or so.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm surprised that so many of you in this thread who were tearing apart the battle tactics in the Long Night are being so forgiving now of the sea battle. I'm the opposite. Although I think there were definitely some dumb tactics in last week's show, I was more forgiving because it did look fantastic and it ended pretty well (between Theon's redemption and Arya's kill).

This week, the sea battle scene finally broke through my wall of incredulity. Seriously, now, Euron's surprise fleet is hiding behind a rather small rock island and not one person managed to spot them (not to mention the Dragon Queen herself well positioned to scout the area out)? Machine gun ballistas with accuracy that defy anything even seen in current modern weaponry? And not circling around behind the ships and burning them up is absolutely unforgivable. Are you kidding me? On a dragon, and coldly mad at the loss of your other dragon, I would have come up behind and wiped out the entire backline. Those ships couldn't easily turn around-- they were in a confined space between two rock islands (and ships turn much slower than dragons anyway). There is no reason to leave even one of those ships floating except plot armor (in this case to set up the Missandei capture and keep despicable Euron alive).

Missandei would have been alive, Euron would be dead and all Ilremaining Iron Fleet ships would be Yara's. Cersei would have no sea power at all. But, no, like someone said above, everyone has to be stupid so that Cersei can actually stay at her level of imbecility and pettiness and remain threatening.

I've given up on military tactics or anything to do with strategy in this show.

I thought the last episode was the worst we've seen because of the importance and build up. This episode wasn't good, but was marginally better.

Things that annoyed me:

Cutting away from Jon's reveal to Sansa and Arya. People have been waiting years for that scene either in the books or on the screen and they decided to cut it.

Trying to shoehorn Varys back into the plot after putting him on the bench for how long? And although the scene with Tyrion was good, it made no sense. Why the hell would Varys take his issues with Daenerys to her hand? Wouldn't Sansa have been a more calculated play there?

The entire scene in front of Kings landing. It sits in a bay at the mouth of a river, has a population of 500k, is supposed to be surrounded by farmland, but was a desert outside the front gates of this episode?? Cersei wants Tyrion dead so bad she'll give up Riverrun for his head, but holds off her archers? This is the mad queen that blew up a sept and we're supposed to believe she doesn't take Tryion out at the most obvious and easiest opportunity?

Rheagal's death. The whole thing was poorly written.

I'm interested to see how the Brienne and Jamie arch plays out in the books. I have a really hard time seeing him hooking up with her as she's described. Those 2 were probably the highlights of this episode though.

If we didn't have 7 previous seasons to fall back on as far as care for the characters goes, it would be hard to really give a shit who sits on the throne at this point. There's no signs of the people in Kings landing suffering under Cersei. Daenerys is going mad. Jon has proven to be a terrible decision maker and doesn't want it. From what we've been shown lately Cersei may be the best choice.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Trying to shoehorn Varys back into the plot after putting him on the bench for how long? And although the scene with Tyrion was good, it made no sense. Why the hell would Varys take his issues with Daenerys to her hand? Wouldn't Sansa have been a more calculated play there?

Tyrion is really the only one who can do something about it. I think Varys was implying poison. Sansa wouldn't be able to do that (and she's too far away at the time Varys finds out - though I thought it would have been far better if Varys already knew and even knew all along due to his little birds, but I guess this is part and parcel of the smart and cunning characters getting neutered).

[RainMaker]

Why didn't they just shoot Dany and her dragon with those giant crossbows they had all around the wall? Seems like if they can accurately hit a moving dragon with ease, they could wipe her and her dragon out in seconds and end the war.

[Groundhog]

I liked the episode (missed the starbucks cup too). Lots of silly things, sure, but at least they are exploring an interesting kink in the Hollywood "Jon Snow/Daenerys live happily ever after" finale that I feared we would end up with... still might, but I hope not. Hoping for at least one major surprise, and also hoping (although probably in vein) that the whole night king arc isn't completely done with yet - that there is one more reveal that makes it feel like seasons and seasons of plot and action in the North against the undead wasn't just a plot device to bring everyone together to fight Cersei.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why didn't they just shoot Dany and her dragon with those giant crossbows they had all around the wall? Seems like if they can accurately hit a moving dragon with ease, they could wipe her and her dragon out in seconds and end the war.

They are special weapons. They only work (and only need to be reloaded) when thematically appropriate.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why didn't they just shoot Dany and her dragon with those giant crossbows they had all around the wall? Seems like if they can accurately hit a moving dragon with ease, they could wipe her and her dragon out in seconds and end the war.

The same argument could be made with regard to thousands of other scenes of this nature elsewhere (and in fact in real history as well btw). If you can't look past that, i am not sure fictional storytelling is the thing for you

Overall this whole obsession over 'logistics' is propably why a lot of fantasy authors are reluctant about adaptations. Nobody reads that burial/burning scene in a book and wonders about impact on ressources, i tell you that ...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by whomario

Overall this whole obsession over 'logistics' is propably why a lot of fantasy authors are reluctant about adaptations. Nobody reads that burial/burning scene in a book and wonders about impact on ressources, i tell you that ...

I don't think that's true when the characters have been talking about the lack of resources. In this case, though, I don't think there's ever been a mention of too little wood.

[MizzouRah]

LOL

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by whomario

The same argument could be made with regard to thousands of other scenes of this nature elsewhere (and in fact in real history as well btw). If you can't look past that, i am not sure fictional storytelling is the thing for you

Overall this whole obsession over 'logistics' is propably why a lot of fantasy authors are reluctant about adaptations. Nobody reads that burial/burning scene in a book and wonders about impact on ressources, i tell you that ...

Logistics have always mattered in the story. The Red Wedding was set up because Robb had to make a deal with Walder Frey for access to the crossing. The first 6 seasons were about the logistics of Daenerys crossing the sea.

There is always a suspension of belief in fantasy stories. But it's odd when you go 6 seasons where all this stuff matters and the last 2 we're supposed to pretend it's an Avengers movie where nothing matters.

[RainMaker]

I kind of hate it that they had Jamie and Brienne hook up. Their relationship was so well written over the years. Jamie having respect for her because she is what he wishes he was. And Brienne seeing the good part of Jamie when everyone had given up on him. There was always that tension between the two, but it should have just been left at that. Every love story doesn't have to end with the two hooking up.

Jamie knighting her was a perfect way to cap their relationship. He showed his love for her by giving her what she has always wanted. Right after she vouched for him on her honor.

The love scene just felt like such a lazy way to cap off such a deep and complex relationship between the two. And it lessened the impact of her being knighted which should have been special.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I kind of hate it that they had Jamie and Brienne hook up. Their relationship was so well written over the years. Jamie having respect for her because she is what he wishes he was. And Brienne seeing the good part of Jamie when everyone had given up on him. There was always that tension between the two, but it should have just been left at that. Every love story doesn't have to end with the two hooking up.

Jamie knighting her was a perfect way to cap their relationship. He showed his love for her by giving her what she has always wanted. Right after she vouched for him on her honor.

The love scene just felt like such a lazy way to cap off such a deep and complex relationship between the two. And it lessened the impact of her being knighted which should have been special.

Yup, I agree. We know she wasn't Jaime's type.

[Izulde]

I'm actually not fussed about their hookup They were drunk and just underwent a literal near-death experience beyond the pale of regular war. That's going to be a double whammy to make people not think right.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'm actually not fussed about their hookup They were drunk and just underwent a literal near-death experience beyond the pale of regular war. That's going to be a double whammy to make people not think right.

I would be behind this except for the awkward buildup of the public humiliation in the game with Tyrion. I mean, it almost felt like pity sex. Blech.

[Neon_Chaos]

Loved the episode. This has been a great season.

Two more to go!

[panerd]

I work with a guy that is clearly not a member of this board who uses the exact term plot armor and discusses at length how this is like the Avengers. I think it's funny how all of the diehard fans complain about the HBO catering to the masses and the color by numbers plot but all basically have color by numbers complaints and all want a the different (same) color by numbers ending.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I would be behind this except for the awkward buildup of the public humiliation in the game with Tyrion. I mean, it almost felt like pity sex. Blech.

Which I also found to be completely out of character for Tyrion. He's not one to be cruel like that.

Also in a faux-medieval world, wouldn't an unmarried woman be expected to be a virgin?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Which I also found to be completely out of character for Tyrion. He's not one to be cruel like that.

Also in a faux-medieval world, wouldn't an unmarried woman be expected to be a virgin?

I mean, to be fair this scene was very similar to the first time Tyrion met Shae, except Shae didn't take any of his shit and gave it right back to him. Tyrion wasn't exactly chivalrous with Shae (in the context of the game only) either.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I mean, to be fair this scene was very similar to the first time Tyrion met Shae, except Shae didn't take any of his shit and gave it right back to him. Tyrion wasn't exactly chivalrous with Shae (in the context of the game only) either.

But there's no way in hell Tyrion laughs about his first marriage with Jamie sitting right there.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Good point.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I mean, to be fair this scene was very similar to the first time Tyrion met Shae, except Shae didn't take any of his shit and gave it right back to him. Tyrion wasn't exactly chivalrous with Shae (in the context of the game only) either.

As you said, Shea gave it right back. Brienne was clearly uncomfortable and Tyrion doubled down on it.

[spleen1015]

Something a co-worker pointed out today. Tywin died on Father's Day. This Sunday is Mother's Day. Dany or Cersei die on Sunday.

[ISiddiqui]

Hell, Tywin was killed by his son... does Dragon eat Dany (or Cersei's unborn child have complications and kill Cersei)?

[Coffee Warlord]

Word is the remainder of the key points for the last 2 episodes have leaked. And people are not happy.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

And people are not happy.

I am shocked.

[Scoobz0202]

If that's true that makes the internet for the next week and a half absolutely awful. I hate tiptoeing around and I definitely don't want spoiled.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

If that's true that makes the internet for the next week and a half absolutely awful. I hate tiptoeing around and I definitely don't want spoiled.

This. I might have to completely avoid social media and quit using Google News during that time, because GoT show stuff frequently pops up in the For You section on the latter.

[Arles]

I've had to basically unfollow sites like "The Ringer" on social media because of spoilers. The second the show ends on the East coast I would get barraged with tweets and Facebook videos full of spoilers from these sites. I mean, I live in Arizona and usually watch once the kids go to bed - so that means I pretty much have to avoid my phone or the internet until I get a chance to watch.

If I were one of these sites, I would setup an East Coast and West Coast feed/account for people to use. This way if you live in Arizona, you can get the west coast feed where spoilers don't show until late that night. But, if you live on the east coast and want to talk right after it, you could have your feed that starts with the content earlier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I just read the supposed spoilers, as someone with basically no connection to the show I figured why not.

All I can say is oh MY - if those are correct - the internet may suffer communal failure. Feels like a possible 95% hate / 3% like / 2% love deal.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I just read the supposed spoilers, as someone with basically no connection to the show I figured why not.

All I can say is oh MY - if those are correct - the internet may suffer communal failure. Feels like a possible 95% hate / 3% like / 2% love deal.

Really depends I guess. A show built upon the unexpected and unlikely, ending in a way that people won't like, leaves a lot of room to navigate.

There are plenty of people who wanted to see moon boy or Sir Pounce end up on the iron throne

[spleen1015]

I looked them up because I figured what the hell.

I can't say what I think because my opinion would be a spoiler.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Word is the remainder of the key points for the last 2 episodes have leaked. And people are not happy.

They've been available for a week or so, IIRC. So if you've avoided it by now, you'll likely avoid it going forward.

[sabotai]

Just read the spoilers because I don't really care about the show anymore. Liked some of them, hated some of them. A few things seem contradictory.

[ISiddiqui]

I tended to really like the spoilers (I too am meh about the show at this point so I said what the Hell).

[stevew]

I read them cause some dumb twat will ruin it on FB anyways. Like gee thanks douche

[Shkspr]

What's killing me is that I've read two separate articles today alone that attempt to "predict" who will live and die in the final two episodes and they both pretty much repeat the spoilers word for word as predictions.

[GrantDawg]

I read the spoilers, and am not crazy about them. I also think it is quite possible that these were purposely leaked to be misleading (or maybe it is just wishful thinking),

[Surtt]

I have not read the spoilers, but at this point I think Gendry ends up on the thrown.
Making the whole series (books and HBO) pointless.

The wheel turns in a circle...

[Edward64]

Oh com'on, dragons can't spit flame endlessly. That's a lot of beans.

[JPhillips]

Why do the Dothraki scene in the Battle of Winterfell if you're going to say a bunch of them lived?

[ISiddiqui]

Well that was about what I expected.

The pale horse was a bit on the nose.

(edit: Oh, and the leaked spoilers were right - I liked it)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

Hard to believe with all the losses to the NK that Dani and crew had enough soldiers to take the city.

Overall good episode, great action.

[Izulde]

Holy shit.

*That* was the epic the dud against the dead should have been.

I don't care about logic breaks, holes, or anything. That was a god damn cinematic masterpiece.

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, that was a very good episode, and I don't think there were that many logic breaks or holes comparatively (edit: What I mean is it mostly fixed the logic holes of previous episodes - like a dragon can totally fuck a fleet, duh). Euron washing up on shore right as Jamie gets to the side entrance of the Red Keep was a bit eye rolling (btw, Euron got the best final line, though not entirely accurate).

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well that was about what I expected.

The pale horse was a bit on the nose.

My first thought re: the horse was Cinemasins voice "Deus ex horse". Followed by the same thought of yeah, that's heavy-handed, but at that point, I didn't care. The whole damn so thing was beautifully shot I was satisfied.

[bob]

I don’t get why she burnt the whole city down. What is she even ruling at this point?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I don't care about logic breaks, holes, or anything. That was a god damn cinematic masterpiece.

And me, seeing an episode in full for the first time, commented how underwhelmed I was by a lot of the shots, despite some singularly stellar moments (and there were several, but virtually all in the final third).

edit to add: And for as good as the CGI was in places (seriously, I was blown away a time or two) maybe spending 10% less of effects and 10% more on fucking candles might have been the right call.