WW XCV: Land of the Role Reveals GAME OVER

[Barkeep49]

Just as a note: I screwed up on D1 and assigned Danny both BG and Maniac. After initally telling him he'd have BG, I switched it to Maniac. I think this was perhaps a mistake. I honestly struggled more with balancing this game than any of my others. I put in the opportunities for dubb to make the play that he did, and clearly it worked too well. I hope people at least enjoyed it.

And more seriously, I hope we get some more fake reveals going on. I didn't quite achieve that with the mechanics I setup (except kinda on the last day) but I really think it's been lacking from our games.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Danny

Wow, so there was no false seer, no duke and no bodyguard.

That's correct. I mean it when I say all roles might or might not be included .

[hoopsguy]

The wolves were in total command until after they converted me and I butchered the deadline shot at the end of D3. I had posted to everyone earlier to make sure Dubb did not end in a tie but I got too cute with my own vote. Dubb even warned me to move it - probably twice - in the last 15-20 minutes but I let it get too late hoping someone else would move.

Oh well, made some chicken salad today.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Nice run wolves. Four day win with a 17 person start is pretty solid. Nicely done.

thanks, it got a little dicey at the end with Dubb not being on and Sal's computer hanging up.

The other plan was to lynch me today and I am the brutal, I take Danny and they win with the night kill.

Had Danny killed Dubb the other night that would have hurt us bad.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA - If i had to do it over I think I would have made either Lathum (brutal) or dubb (cunning) a vanilla wolf. Otherwise I'm not too sure that with this same setup it couldn't have gone a different way. Clearly D1 was decisive.

[Danny]

I had fun, balance is tough, I think this was real tough for the villagers with having so many roles open for fake reveals.

Like BK said, I knew there was no starting BG, so I found it very unlikely there was also no starting duke which is why I felt Dubb was on the up and up.

[Danny]

I knew keeping the vote close was a mistake, we should have piled on someone.

[Racer]

Well I guess I was wrong in thinking Schmidty was a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

I was wondering what kind of info you might have - Maniac role did not seem to set you up for anything outside what was in the thread.

PB - once again, we find ourselves on opposite ends of the spectrum. Uncanny.

[Lathum]

We only knew there was no duke.

Danny's reads were scary good

[hoopsguy]

Man, I was getting really frustrated in not being able to find a bodyguard. I was worried that we would be dodging two of them tonight among a small group of players for the win and that if it went another day the votes would be easy pickings for the villagers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Racer

Well I guess I was wrong in thinking Schmidty was a wolf.

Once Schmidty went with me on Racer and we saw he hadn't come back it was full on, I knew we had it then.

FWIW I was trying to play a little sloppy with my logic about the Dubb/ Racer dynamic because we couldn't afford to have Dubb lynched over me.

[Schmidty]

I suck.

This game was random.

[Schmidty]

I will never trust Lathum again.

[Schmidty]

Also, I'm not mad.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I suck.

This game was random.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I will never trust Lathum again.

I saw this one coming

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I will never trust Lathum again.

Then you will have plenty of company on this sub-forum.

[Schmidty]

I felt like a mole outside of his tunnel.

[henry296]

About 9 PM, I realized that Lathum was the brutal when he kept emphasizing a vote for him ended the game.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I suck.

This game was random.

Can you elaborate on that?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by henry296

About 9 PM, I realized that Lathum was the brutal when he kept emphasizing a vote for him ended the game.

There would have been irony there if there was no bodyguard. Otherwise, we would have had to dodge PB tonight to pick up the win. And we thought we were going to have to dodge two guards since we believed there must be a bodyguard out there. So I'm sure we would have spent a lot of time scheming over where to go.

PB - feel like sharing who you guarded each night and why?

[Lathum]

also, I indicated many times that my schedule was keeping me from actively participating early on and that was 100% true, I never lie about reral life.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Can you elaborate on that?

It wasn't your fault, it just seemed that you had to trust someone blindly at the beginning and go from there. There wasn't much vote history to go on. Maybe if the game had gone on longer, it would have been more clear. Or maybe I just suck. I don't know, but I was frustrated.

[Danny]

BTW, great game you guys . GM's, no more Hoops, Dubb and Lathum together as wolves, ok?

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

PB - feel like sharing who you guarded each night and why?

N1- Me, trying to ensure that I could reveal
N2- Dubb because I believed he was duke
N3- Saldana because I was going to guard myself tonight since I couldn't guard myself twice in a row.

Although holy hell did I feel a lot safer than I should have with no BG.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops was the cultist. He was converted.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

It wasn't your fault, it just seemed that you had to trust someone blindly at the beginning and go from there. There wasn't much vote history to go on. Maybe if the game had gone on longer, it would have been more clear. Or maybe I just suck. I don't know, but I was frustrated.

I think the wolves definitely had the % upperhand in likelihood of winning the game, but if a couple things fall differenty then we would have had a chance. If on night 1, Telle's vote is properly counted and my vote goes through, Dubb might have been busted there. Then if on night 3, more people follow me on Hoops. Game balance was slanted towards wolves, but they played very well and it's supposed to be a challenge for the villagers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

BTW, great game you guys . GM's, no more Hoops, Dubb and Lathum together as wolves, ok?

Sal and Telle are also very good wolves. We had a solid team.

And thanks to BK for running it.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Although holy hell did I feel a lot safer than I should have with no BG.

That assumption was universally shared. So there was never any serious consideration of killing you from the wolves that I remember.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

N1- Me, trying to ensure that I could reveal
N2- Dubb because I believed he was duke
N3- Saldana because I was going to guard myself tonight since I couldn't guard myself twice in a row.

Although holy hell did I feel a lot safer than I should have with no BG.

I kept that to myself because technically I wasn't supposed to know, but also because I didn't know if the wolves knew or not.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Sal and Telle are also very good wolves. We had a solid team.

And thanks to BK for running it.

Yeah they are, you all did a great job

[Lathum]

"We actually thought the game was going to be really hard to win.

The tie on D1 and everyone believing Dubb was the duke and elevating his trust made a huge difference.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

That assumption was universally shared. So there was never any serious consideration of killing you from the wolves that I remember.

We weren't going to kill PB until he had scanned Dubb clean.

The best move of the game IMO was Dubb pulling the old Princess Bride switheroo with the who to scan lists. PB had every wolf on his list.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Danny

BTW, great game you guys . GM's, no more Hoops, Dubb and Lathum together as wolves, ok?

random.org for the win?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

"We actually thought the game was going to be really hard to win.

The tie on D1 and everyone believing Dubb was the duke and elevating his trust made a huge difference.

I can attest to this. They were quite despondent the day the roles went out. They made a big risky bet at the start and it paid off big for them (after all if dubb is revealed that could have done saldana in as well). It's why I don't think the balance was too off despite the runaway nature.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

"We actually thought the game was going to be really hard to win.

The tie on D1 and everyone believing Dubb was the duke and elevating his trust made a huge difference.

lathum and i had at least 4 separate conversations about how we were gonna get smoked, and I figured out about 5 different ways the villagers could have run the table against us (hell I even told you one of them)....we really thought we had no shot until dubb stuck his neck out and got things rolling...then the scan lists that PB came up with were hysterical...you had us all...i still dont understand the logic in the switch...i also had hoops pegged by the middle of the second day as the cultist, although i was wrong on which one of us he knew (he knew lathum), so that was an easy night kill choice...either get the conversion or get rid of hoops.

[dubb93]

This was a very fun game, thanks for running it Barkeep. There were several spots in the game that we had to take advantage of in order to get this win. I don't think the balance was as far off as some people think. If a villager gets the seer role with us thinking there are 2 BGs it is game over for us.

If PB doesn't let me talk him out of the list with every wolf on it it is game over.

If I don't get people to buy my reason(albeit slightly) for the lynch of Ler on day 3 it is much less likely we win. Hell if Danny night kills me it is almost game over with me/hoops/saldana going back to back to back.

If we don't all come out accusing each other today and get the vote spread out so we can make the deadline move we did it is also doubtful we pull this out.

[saldana]

dola, i was also surprised i got away with killing NTN and no one got pissed.

great game all, way to go team wolf!

thanks barkeep.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by saldana

then the scan lists that PB came up with were hysterical...you had us all...i still dont understand the logic in the switch...

Yea those scan lists were awful. I had to something about that, just awful.

[hoopsguy]

So Dubb, just how much more work do I have to do to get us square for the butchered deadline snipe?

I felt just awful about how that went down. Total amateur hour.

Stupid blue font

[dubb93]

And Danny the point I refuted in your post about how I could be a wolf my response was 99% the truth and I play that the same way wolf or villager.

As I said I got up and checked my PMs(although I was actually checking wolf talk and to see if PB was the real seer or not as I used my ability on him). I then went out to drink a pepsi and smoke. When I came back I caught up in thread(although I was PMing Hoops at this point to decide if I declare Lathum or Schmidty a wolf). I play it the same way as a villager minus the PMs I had with Hoops so it would have been the same delay.

I stand by my statement that that point was a awful reason to vote me. The rest were all solid reasons that I couldn't really refute so I left them alone.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So Dubb, just how much more work do I have to do to get us square for the butchered deadline snipe?

I felt just awful about how that went down. Total amateur hour.

Stupid blue font

I was VERY pissed about that and I'm pretty sure it showed.

I mean, if I wasn't sending you constant PMs saying Racer was going to switch and you needed to vote him I wouldn't have been as mad.

In all honesty I think I called the Racer switch out in wolf chat a full 20 minutes before it was even suggested, let alone actually happened.

Tonights deadline madness was top notch though. I think we are squared.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, from now on, when I say DON'T HAND TRUST TO ANYONE, will people listen next time?

This was a fun game--but as a villager pretty frustrating. Had some pretty awful villager play. Combine that with an All Star cast of wolves and a game balanced for the wolves to win, well, here's what you get.

Not to say the wolves didn't kick ass. They did. But the scales were tipped in this one.

[Chief Rum]

Oh yeah, and if I ever see a required blue font again, I will not be playing in that game.

[EagleFan]

Good game wolves.

It was rather entertaining watching from the sidelines, especially that one night when dubb thought the game may be lost. Between the late hoops vote and Danny's post that he was going to NK dubb... At the same time I get the PM from dubb saying that I get one from Danny saying basically "I hope the wolves won't attack dubb now that I said that". I could only shake my head.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

They did. But the scales were tipped in this one.

As I said above not sure I agree at all. Lets go back to day 2 and assume you end up seer. How does the game play out from there?

And that move/vote had absolutely nothing to do with game balance at all. That was just about the play I made on day 1 and the fact that the village ran with it.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, from now on, when I say DON'T HAND TRUST TO ANYONE, will people listen next time?

You were right about that, but I did help get PB the BG instead of Hoops the believed seer, that worked out well, but not with it ending up going to Dubb. We had to try and trust someone. I made the wrong call initially trusting Dubb, but I like I said, I really did not believe both the BG and duke would not be in the game.

[EagleFan]

dola: If only you had listened to me about dubb on day one....

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by dubb93

As I said above not sure I agree at all. Lets go back to day 2 and assume you end up seer. How does the game play out from there?

And that move/vote had absolutely nothing to do with game balance at all. That was just about the play I made on day 1 and the fact that the village ran with it.

Or I could go on about things that had absolutely nothing to do with the balance. Let's assume I still get seer but I let PB have the list he wanted to begin with. The list with EVERY WOLF on it. How does it play out from there? Again that was another move that had nothing at all to do with the balance.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Danny

I knew keeping the vote close was a mistake, we should have piled on someone.

Yeah, looking back, we probably should have.

I actually had a unvote Lathum
vote Dubb

copied so all i had to do was paste it. However, by the time I saw Hoops and Telle had switched, it was 10 pm.