WW XCV: Land of the Role Reveals GAME OVER - Page 29

Racer · 05-31-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I just find it interesting that you would select a role that makes it more dufficult to lynch you. Were you planning for tomorrow for when it comes back I am telling the truth.

Also, why are you acting like we are definitely on different sides? Like I said previously, I know for a fact that your are either the fake seer or a wolf. If you are a fake seer, your scans are worthless. I lean towards you being a wolf, but I'm not sure.

Lathum · 05-31-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer

Also, why are you acting like we are definitely on different sides? Like I said previously, I know for a fact that your are either the fake seer or a wolf. If you are a fake seer, your scans are worthless. I lean towards you being a wolf, but I'm not sure.

Like I said I have faith in my scans. I have no reason not to thus far. The only evidence we have that my scan is false is you saying you are a villager, which you must forgive me for saying so but that doesn't mean squat to me.

Racer · 05-31-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Like I said I have faith in my scans. I have no reason not to thus far. The only evidence we have that my scan is false is you saying you are a villager, which you must forgive me for saying so but that doesn't mean squat to me.

If you are actually good, then Dubb HAS to be a wolf since you turned up a wolf in his "scan" since the believed seer's scans are definitely good (if they are a villager). You don't even seem to be considering the fact that I could be good and that you could be the fake seer (if you're telling the truth) which seems weird since you're a veteran.

Lathum · 05-31-2009, 11:53 AM

I considered it, but like I said, lynch you and have Danny kill Dubb, seems most logical.

Danny · 05-31-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

and why are people so quick to believe PB as the real seer. It's not like we are operating with a large number of scans here.

For me because we know CR is good and I know I am good. I also tend to believe Tyrith is good. Also, for yours, I don't really believe Hoops is good though it's possible he was converted after your scan.

dubb93 · 05-31-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Was on for a little bit this morning before posting he found a wolf, almost like he would have been verifying who he wanted to say was scanned as a wolf.

Believe what you will but I have to comment on this one. This is completely ridiculous.

As you know Danny when I go to work I work for 24 straight hours so when I logged on I was just getting up for the day as I had worked the day before. I got on, checked my PM and then went out and smoked a couple while drinking a Pepsi. When I came back in I caught up with the thread to see what I had missed and then posted what my PM said.

If you think I am a wolf vote for me or whoever in the hell you want but that point right there is completely ridiculous. In my experience when you try to go meta game you get burnt.

I have voted for players in the past and lead the charge for the sole reason I caught them PMing at an odd time. That is meta gaming just like your above comment is. I can say from experience when I have voted for that reason I have never found a wolf.

Danny · 05-31-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

Believe what you will but I have to comment on this one. This is completely ridiculous.

As you know Danny when I go to work I work for 24 straight hours so when I logged on I was just getting up for the day as I had worked the day before. I got on, checked my PM and then went out and smoked a couple while drinking a Pepsi. When I came back in I caught up with the thread to see what I had missed and then posted what my PM said.

If you think I am a wolf vote for me or whoever in the hell you want but that point right there is completely ridiculous. In my experience when you try to go meta game you get burnt.

I have voted for players in the past and lead the charge for the sole reason I caught them PMing at an odd time. That is meta gaming just like your above comment is. I can say from experience when I have voted for that reason I have never found a wolf.

That's a fair point, you're right about this.

Danny · 05-31-2009, 09:54 PM

OOC though, how did you catch someone PMing at an odd time? As far as I can tell, there is no way to tell when someone is PMing.

Lathum · 05-31-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

OOC though, how did you catch someone PMing at an odd time? As far as I can tell, there is no way to tell when someone is PMing.

If you go to someones profile it tells you where they are. If they are in their PM box you can make the leap. We had a player use that tactic a while back

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:00 AM

Dubb, when you get a chance a couple questions.

Why again did you decide to keep your vote on Racer, but use the tie break on Lerriuqs?

Why did you scan Lathum as opposed to Hoopsguy who you seem absolutely convinced must be a wolf?

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:10 AM

Unvote Lathum

Still undecided, what bothers me is if we are in 6-5 ratio right now, the only one who seemed to play an end game is Dubb. If we're 7-4 then this doesn't mean anything, but if we're 7-4 and end up lynching Dubb and we're wrong I can kill Lathum if he is believed.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:13 AM

Lathum, the only chance you have of me going with you is if you vote Dubb. At best it's 50/50 you are the real seer, so it's quite possible Racer is not a wolf. If you are not a wolf, Dubb has to be a wolf. I'm not saying I go this way, but I will not be voting for Racer under any circumstance today.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:21 AM

Vote Dubb

I am still completely undecided about who is telling the truth, but I think this is likely the only way to be wrong and still prolong the game. And frankly, Lathum's play seems almost too amateurish for him to be a wolf. Lathum I ask that you post that you are a vanilla wolf and that you vote Dubb instead of Racer. I'm still not a 100% committed with this vote, but unless those two things are done I am sure I will be changing.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:22 AM

One of the things I found completely odd about Lathum's play is before he revealed, Racer was the only person with heat on Dubb, why would he make up a fake scan of a wolf of the one person who is supporting him? Why not use someone who is a villager and try and gain trust or even Dubb since people were calling for his scan anyway.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I considered it, but like I said, lynch you and have Danny kill Dubb, seems most logical.

No need, if Dubb is the lynch and he is bad, I use my ability on Saldana. If Dubb is the lynch and he is good, I use it on you.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:46 AM

If we're 7-4 and we lynch Dubb who is telling the truth, we then move to 6-4 and then we my night kill and their night kill, it's 5-3. With up to four people cleared. If Dubb is lying I think it's a given we are 6-5 right now and the only way he plays it like this is if it is end game.

If we lynch Lathum who is telling the truth, game over. If we lynch Lathum who is lying, we are likely 7-3 before the night kill. I don't see Lathum if he is a wolf as playing this as end game at all. I feel pretty good that if he is lying we are 7-4 right now which is why I will likely leave my vote where it is now even though I am not sure of it being right. At this point after today we will have a pretty good idea of who the wolves either way, so I am going to make the vote I believe will prolong the game.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:48 AM

Just going with that point, I fully believe that if we were at end game with Lathum as a wolf, he would have had something planned for today. He clearly did not.

Chief Rum · 06-01-2009, 01:48 AM

Now I know why the wolves killed me. They must have hoped you wouldn't post as much this late.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Now I know why the wolves killed me. They must have hoped you wouldn't post as much this late.

lol, I think I am going back and forth with my own thoughts as much as you and I were with our thoughts that one night.

Schmidty · 06-01-2009, 02:25 AM

We went up to Baker Lake today. My daughter's first time fishing!!! It was so fun. We didn't catch anything, but she almost did, and so did I. The trout they stock there must have weak ass mouths. Either way, it was a great day.

Back to WW in the morning. I'll have to catch up when I can. I can't think of much right now.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 02:27 AM

Nice, sounds like you guys had a lot of fun!

Danny · 06-01-2009, 02:34 AM

One last post of the night. If Dubb is lying and we're 6-5 right now, it's going to take every single one of us villagers to vote Dubb. If Tyrith and PB end up on board for voting Dubb which I think is the smart play based on prolonging the game, it's imperative than any remaining villager vote with us.

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 06:21 AM

Danny, my two big problems right now are this:

1- I read Lathum's explanation for not outing Racer the minute he saw it but that is a tough one for me just because I'm from the "shout it from the rooftops" system.

2- If dubb is a wolf, I would assume Saldana is too and since Saldana had the ability to kill any player, why didn't he take me out since I am a seer and bodyguard? I know it would be semi-suicide but you get rid of two roles in one shot and you could probably defend it.

I guess that is where I sit. I think we are likely facing 4 wolves right now. I think I said 5 earlier but for some reason it was in my head that we started with 20, not 17. So I believe that it is 7-4. This is going to be a pretty big day.

dubb93 · 06-01-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Dubb, when you get a chance a couple questions.

Why again did you decide to keep your vote on Racer, but use the tie break on Lerriuqs?

When I had actually noticed Racer made the switch it was too late for me to change my vote.

Like I said, the play Racer made was to tie it up and "test" if I was the duke. At that point in time everyone thought the tie break was my vote instead of just me. I don't think a wolf would make that play. It seemed much more likely that the wolf would make the play Hoops did, basically going out of his way to make sure I couldn't prove I was the duke as that would confirm my seer scans.

As I said at the time and I stand by it, I don't care how it looks, I could not break that tie towards Racer after his deadline play. In my mind that play confirmed Racer as a villager. So I was left with a player who I felt was a villager and then an unknown in Lerriuqs, I obviously choose the break the tie toward the unknown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Why did you scan Lathum as opposed to Hoopsguy who you seem absolutely convinced must be a wolf?

I had expected Saldana to kill Hoops instead of NtN. Why would I use my scan on a person I expected to be dead?

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 06:31 AM

There is another answer to #2 there and that is that I'm the fake seer and Tyrith is a wolf (and that was the wolves' clue that I was the fake seer). The day I scanned Tyrith was the day Saldana got nominated and did kill my first scan which made it look like I'm the real seer. If that is the case, then wolves are: dubb, saldana and NOT Lathum

I'm almost wondering about doing something a little different today, putting the dubb-Lathum show aside for now and trying to hit on a wolf elsewhere. Then, tonight, I scan Lathum (which if I'm the fake seer has no validity anyway), Lathum scans Saldana, and dubb scans whoever he wants.

If that is how it goes, then I would likely vote in one of three places.

If I had to pick right now, I would likely stay with dubb simply because if he's a villager he's played a good villager game and if he's a wolf, well he's played a phenomenal wolf game.

Here's the other fun thing, I can't self-protect tonight and the BG can't guard me tonight, so it should be fun.

dubb93 · 06-01-2009, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

OOC though, how did you catch someone PMing at an odd time? As far as I can tell, there is no way to tell when someone is PMing.

View player profile, last activity = private messaging. The issue with that is in order to take that into any account at all you have to assume the only reason the player visits here is to play this game and you also have to assume they have no questions to ask the GM or a villager role that requires PMing the GM.

It was and still is a completely flawed reason to vote for someone.

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

There is another answer to #2 there and that is that I'm the fake seer and Tyrith is a wolf (and that was the wolves' clue that I was the fake seer). The day I scanned Tyrith was the day Saldana got nominated and did kill my first scan which made it look like I'm the real seer. If that is the case, then wolves are: dubb, saldana, Tyrith and NOT Lathum

I'm almost wondering about doing something a little different today, putting the dubb-Lathum show aside for now and trying to hit on a wolf elsewhere. Then, tonight, I scan Lathum (which if I'm the fake seer has no validity anyway), Lathum scans Saldana, and dubb scans whoever he wants.

If that is how it goes, then I would likely vote in one of three places.

If I had to pick right now, I would likely stay with dubb simply because if he's a villager he's played a good villager game and if he's a wolf, well he's played a phenomenal wolf game.

Here's the other fun thing, I can't self-protect tonight and the BG can't guard me tonight, so it should be fun.

bolded the change, forgot to add a name.

hoopsguy · 06-01-2009, 06:39 AM

Danny, just out of curiosity - do you basically read my posts at this point in the game and try to do the opposite of what I want you to do?

1.) I suggest that night-killing Dubb would be acceptable (if he is not going to be scanned) in order to provide clarity about a player who appears to have lied about being the duke.

Result = you threaten to kill him, PB goes elsewhere with his scan, you don't kill him, and we still don't know what to do today.

2.) The following day, when push comes to shove about believing Dubb or Lathum, I grudgingly believe Dubb because of the Racer/Dubb opposite teams theory (which you have never commented on one way or the other). At this point I'm now voting in the same direction as you.

Result = you switch vote over to Lathum, urge all villagers to follow you.

So, my question at this point is what is it that you want me to do at this point? Let me know, so I can go the other way and allow you to stay on your charted course

Finally, you do realize that today would have been a heck of a lot easier if we had followed the path I had outlined (one of the two options of you killing Dubb or PB scanning him) rather than where we are now? Because we would know about Saldana + Dubb with either of those actions and the wolves would not have us in a guessing game between players/seers that have both given us reasons to distrust them.

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 06:51 AM

Hoops, I will admit, it is my fault not scanning him. I debated that for a while and I may have blown it there if dubb is a wolf.

hoopsguy · 06-01-2009, 06:53 AM

PB, I'm really not sure what you should have done with Danny saying he was going to take out Dubb. I'm pretty sure that Danny would not have been my choice with the scan if I was in your position, but it is tough to pull the trigger on scanning a guy you think is 50/50 to be dead in the morning.

hoopsguy · 06-01-2009, 06:55 AM

And none of this is suggesting that I think Danny is a wolf or anything like that - I think that is a really remote possibility that does not deserve any consideration.

I'm just a little frustrated about not really having any kind of voice in the proceedings today and seeing someone who I trust appearing to take steps to do the exact opposite of what I think is the correct play during the last night and day phases.

I can deal with the suspicion; I get it every game. I'm having a hard time dealing with near-100% villagers making moves seemingly just to go against what I think is correct because that just makes it all the easier for the wolves to close this out.

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 07:01 AM

Hoops, part of why I did scan Danny was out of what exactly happened, dubb was still alive the next morning. I had a feeling he wasn't going to take dubb out and therefore I wanted to know if he was a wolf posturing or a villager debating.

Danny is going to have to take action tonight against one of the four players that will have believed roles: Myself, dubb, Saldana, and whoever we nominate today. I am fine with him taking out any of the four if it is for the village's best interest.

hoopsguy · 06-01-2009, 07:15 AM

On the topic of that 4th declaration - I'm still the only one who has been willing to declare the chosen role.

Racer has been willing to pick his own role to declare.
Lathum has not picked a role.
Schmidty has not commented on picking a role.
USFL and Telle - I do not think either posted over the weekend.

However, I'm hoping each of the remaining players will be willing to follow the plan laid out by PB/Danny and declare a role. I'm feeling kind of lonely as the only person willing to declare vanilla villager and it is getting me even more suspicious of those who are not.

Actually, this is not really true as I'm pretty damn sure that Schmidty, USFL, and Telle are all wolves if there are five of them at this stage. This was covered in Post #1354 and the following discussion.

Racer · 06-01-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

On the topic of that 4th declaration - I'm still the only one who has been willing to declare the chosen role.

Racer has been willing to pick his own role to declare.
Lathum has not picked a role.
Schmidty has not commented on picking a role.
USFL and Telle - I do not think either posted over the weekend.

However, I'm hoping each of the remaining players will be willing to follow the plan laid out by PB/Danny and declare a role. I'm feeling kind of lonely as the only person willing to declare vanilla villager and it is getting me even more suspicious of those who are not.

Actually, this is not really true as I'm pretty damn sure that Schmidty, USFL, and Telle are all wolves if there are five of them at this stage. This was covered in Post #1354 and the following discussion.

Believed Vanilla Villager is more powerful then believed touch villager (I think). I also claimed the Vanilla Wolf role after PB pointed out to me why one could argue that's the best role for village to believe someone as.

Tyrith · 06-01-2009, 09:10 AM

I am a vanilla villager. (This is actually the truth.)
I am a vanilla wolf. (Just in case you all have some weird reason for wanting me dead.)

Yeah, that's pretty schizo.

Racer · 06-01-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

One of the things I found completely odd about Lathum's play is before he revealed, Racer was the only person with heat on Dubb, why would he make up a fake scan of a wolf of the one person who is supporting him? Why not use someone who is a villager and try and gain trust or even Dubb since people were calling for his scan anyway.

I'm not really supporting him and I think he's one of the three most likely wolves at this point (Dubb and Hoops) being the others. I just said there was nothing he posted that refuted his claim as seer (like still being on Hoops after day one).

For awhile, I thought Dubb and Lathum were both probably wolves except Lathum hasn't really put much heat on Dubb at this point so I'm beginning to think otherwise. If they were going to make this play as wolves, I think Lathum would put heat on Dubb (since Dubb is definitely a wolf if Lathum isn't) rather then basically ignore him.

USFLTecmo · 06-01-2009, 09:22 AM

I am a Vanilla Villager (Like I've been saying all game. I won't be believed, I'll be killed, and then it will be obvious that I was telling the truth all along.)

dubb93 · 06-01-2009, 10:08 AM

This is beyond frustrating.

saldana · 06-01-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

2- If dubb is a wolf, I would assume Saldana is too and since Saldana had the ability to kill any player, why didn't he take me out since I am a seer and bodyguard? I know it would be semi-suicide but you get rid of two roles in one shot and you could probably defend it.

i dont understand this...you are saying that if Dubb is a wolf, then i am too because I DIDN'T kill you.

if i were a wolf, you would have been dead as a doornail as soon as I was believed as the maniac...this logic really doesnt make alot of sense to me.

saldana · 06-01-2009, 11:17 AM

anyone know the vote count?

Telle · 06-01-2009, 11:29 AM

As of post #1440:

1 - Racer - Lathum (1306)
2 - dubb - Racer (1280), Danny (1413)
5 - Lathum - dubb (1285), Tyrith (1293), saldana (1319), PurdueBrad (1378), hoopsguy (1387)

Yet to vote: Schmidty, USFLTecmo, Telle

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

Yet to vote: Schmidty, USFLTecmo, Telle

And all three are still suspected wolves.

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

i dont understand this...you are saying that if Dubb is a wolf, then i am too because I DIDN'T kill you.

if i were a wolf, you would have been dead as a doornail as soon as I was believed as the maniac...this logic really doesnt make alot of sense to me.

No, I'm using it as an argument for you guys not being a wolves. I agree with you.

Lathum · 06-01-2009, 11:51 AM

I' not sure what else I can say, apparently Danny wants us to lose the game.

I'm not voting Dubb because he can be taken out at night by Danny. Racer can not. Danny also mentioned voting Tyrith, a move I would be willing to make to A. save my life and B. validate mine and PB's scans.

hoopsguy · 06-01-2009, 11:51 AM

OK, I want to run through the matrix of assumptions for the vote today:

1.) Dubb, (presumed?) duke and believed seer, says that Lathum is a wolf
2.) Lathum, once accused, comes out as a seer (real/false/make-believe) and says that Racer is a wolf

Now, there is a risk in believing Dubb on this because we could be at end game here. But, if we aren't going to string up Dubb today then here is what I would like to see happen.

Put a tie in place for Lathum/Racer with Dubb abstaining from the vote if everyone else goes along with it. Dubb would be able to use the tie-breaker rule (as he has suggested it) to PM Barkeep with his vote, which would certainly be for Lathum since he has called Lathum as a wolf.

I know Dubb has posted that Lathum is a wolf in the thread and thus will want to vote for him. But he was also frustrated that I tried to jeopardize his tie-break on Friday. So here would be a chance for him to prove it, especially if the last vote falls on Racer.

I think there is a lot of risk with this plan - heck, there is a ton of risk. But does anyone else have a better scenario for allowing us to actually learn something about all three people (Dubb, Lathum, and Racer) at the same time?

If this plays out poorly then Danny is going to whack me at night anyway. No one else has a single "Believe" vote on them yet for vanilla villager.

If Dubb does have us in endgame then we still have to be 6-5 on the right candidate today and I haven't seen anything yet that suggests the rest of the villagers are committed to going after Dubb (or anyone else that I think is a wolf right now).

Thoughts?

Danny · 06-01-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Danny, just out of curiosity - do you basically read my posts at this point in the game and try to do the opposite of what I want you to do?

You're too smart for that, I basically just ignore everything you say, in one ear, out the other.

hoopsguy · 06-01-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

You're too smart for that, I basically just ignore everything you say, in one ear, out the other.

Well, then I've got a long one for you to ignore coming up ...

Danny · 06-01-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Finally, you do realize that today would have been a heck of a lot easier if we had followed the path I had outlined (one of the two options of you killing Dubb or PB scanning him) rather than where we are now? Because we would know about Saldana + Dubb with either of those actions and the wolves would not have us in a guessing game between players/seers that have both given us reasons to distrust them.

Actually we would have been worse off. If we're 6-5 now and I killed Dubb and he is not bad, we lose. If it is 7-4, then not killing Dubb allowed him to get an extra scan off and we still have a day of wiggle room. And like I said, if Dubb is a wolf, I would bet he is the cunning.

PurdueBrad · 06-01-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm not voting Dubb because he can be taken out at night by Danny. Racer can not. Danny also mentioned voting Tyrith, a move I would be willing to make to A. save my life and B. validate mine and PB's scans.

I cannot support a move to take out somebody that I scanned villager right now. If we're at end game (or even close to it) this could be a very, very costly mistake.

I'm more content to leave my vote as is and IF we're wrong on Lathum, then Danny takes out dubb, meaning we net one wolf between the two of them.

Danny · 06-01-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, I want to run through the matrix of assumptions for the vote today:

1.) Dubb, (presumed?) duke and believed seer, says that Lathum is a wolf
2.) Lathum, once accused, comes out as a seer (real/false/make-believe) and says that Racer is a wolf

Now, there is a risk in believing Dubb on this because we could be at end game here. But, if we aren't going to string up Dubb today then here is what I would like to see happen.

Put a tie in place for Lathum/Racer with Dubb abstaining from the vote if everyone else goes along with it. Dubb would be able to use the tie-breaker rule (as he has suggested it) to PM Barkeep with his vote, which would certainly be for Lathum since he has called Lathum as a wolf.

I know Dubb has posted that Lathum is a wolf in the thread and thus will want to vote for him. But he was also frustrated that I tried to jeopardize his tie-break on Friday. So here would be a chance for him to prove it, especially if the last vote falls on Racer.

I think there is a lot of risk with this plan - heck, there is a ton of risk. But does anyone else have a better scenario for allowing us to actually learn something about all three people (Dubb, Lathum, and Racer) at the same time?

If this plays out poorly then Danny is going to whack me at night anyway. No one else has a single "Believe" vote on them yet for vanilla villager.

If Dubb does have us in endgame then we still have to be 6-5 on the right candidate today and I haven't seen anything yet that suggests the rest of the villagers are committed to going after Dubb (or anyone else that I think is a wolf right now).

Thoughts?

The problem with this is a wolf or wolves can easily manipulate this if it is end game by changing their vote at the last second, If we pick a candidate between Lathum and Dubb, wolves might vote with the villagers in order to not have the game lost if we get this one right.

06-01-2009, 01:48 AM	#1418
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Now I know why the wolves killed me. They must have hoped you wouldn't post as much this late. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

06-01-2009, 02:25 AM	#1420
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	We went up to Baker Lake today. My daughter's first time fishing!!! It was so fun. We didn't catch anything, but she almost did, and so did I. The trout they stock there must have weak ass mouths. Either way, it was a great day. Back to WW in the morning. I'll have to catch up when I can. I can't think of much right now. __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

05-31-2009, 11:53 AM	#1404
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I considered it, but like I said, lynch you and have Danny kill Dubb, seems most logical.

05-31-2009, 09:54 PM	#1408
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	OOC though, how did you catch someone PMing at an odd time? As far as I can tell, there is no way to tell when someone is PMing.

06-01-2009, 01:00 AM	#1410
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Dubb, when you get a chance a couple questions. Why again did you decide to keep your vote on Racer, but use the tie break on Lerriuqs? Why did you scan Lathum as opposed to Hoopsguy who you seem absolutely convinced must be a wolf?

06-01-2009, 01:10 AM	#1411
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Unvote Lathum Still undecided, what bothers me is if we are in 6-5 ratio right now, the only one who seemed to play an end game is Dubb. If we're 7-4 then this doesn't mean anything, but if we're 7-4 and end up lynching Dubb and we're wrong I can kill Lathum if he is believed.

06-01-2009, 01:13 AM	#1412
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Lathum, the only chance you have of me going with you is if you vote Dubb. At best it's 50/50 you are the real seer, so it's quite possible Racer is not a wolf. If you are not a wolf, Dubb has to be a wolf. I'm not saying I go this way, but I will not be voting for Racer under any circumstance today.

06-01-2009, 01:21 AM	#1413
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Vote Dubb I am still completely undecided about who is telling the truth, but I think this is likely the only way to be wrong and still prolong the game. And frankly, Lathum's play seems almost too amateurish for him to be a wolf. Lathum I ask that you post that you are a vanilla wolf and that you vote Dubb instead of Racer. I'm still not a 100% committed with this vote, but unless those two things are done I am sure I will be changing.

06-01-2009, 01:22 AM	#1414
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	One of the things I found completely odd about Lathum's play is before he revealed, Racer was the only person with heat on Dubb, why would he make up a fake scan of a wolf of the one person who is supporting him? Why not use someone who is a villager and try and gain trust or even Dubb since people were calling for his scan anyway.

06-01-2009, 01:46 AM	#1416
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	If we're 7-4 and we lynch Dubb who is telling the truth, we then move to 6-4 and then we my night kill and their night kill, it's 5-3. With up to four people cleared. If Dubb is lying I think it's a given we are 6-5 right now and the only way he plays it like this is if it is end game. If we lynch Lathum who is telling the truth, game over. If we lynch Lathum who is lying, we are likely 7-3 before the night kill. I don't see Lathum if he is a wolf as playing this as end game at all. I feel pretty good that if he is lying we are 7-4 right now which is why I will likely leave my vote where it is now even though I am not sure of it being right. At this point after today we will have a pretty good idea of who the wolves either way, so I am going to make the vote I believe will prolong the game.

06-01-2009, 01:48 AM	#1417
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Just going with that point, I fully believe that if we were at end game with Lathum as a wolf, he would have had something planned for today. He clearly did not.

06-01-2009, 02:27 AM	#1421
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Nice, sounds like you guys had a lot of fun!

06-01-2009, 02:34 AM	#1422
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	One last post of the night. If Dubb is lying and we're 6-5 right now, it's going to take every single one of us villagers to vote Dubb. If Tyrith and PB end up on board for voting Dubb which I think is the smart play based on prolonging the game, it's imperative than any remaining villager vote with us.

06-01-2009, 06:39 AM	#1428
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Danny, just out of curiosity - do you basically read my posts at this point in the game and try to do the opposite of what I want you to do? 1.) I suggest that night-killing Dubb would be acceptable (if he is not going to be scanned) in order to provide clarity about a player who appears to have lied about being the duke. Result = you threaten to kill him, PB goes elsewhere with his scan, you don't kill him, and we still don't know what to do today. 2.) The following day, when push comes to shove about believing Dubb or Lathum, I grudgingly believe Dubb because of the Racer/Dubb opposite teams theory (which you have never commented on one way or the other). At this point I'm now voting in the same direction as you. Result = you switch vote over to Lathum, urge all villagers to follow you. So, my question at this point is what is it that you want me to do at this point? Let me know, so I can go the other way and allow you to stay on your charted course Finally, you do realize that today would have been a heck of a lot easier if we had followed the path I had outlined (one of the two options of you killing Dubb or PB scanning him) rather than where we are now? Because we would know about Saldana + Dubb with either of those actions and the wolves would not have us in a guessing game between players/seers that have both given us reasons to distrust them.

06-01-2009, 06:53 AM	#1430
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	PB, I'm really not sure what you should have done with Danny saying he was going to take out Dubb. I'm pretty sure that Danny would not have been my choice with the scan if I was in your position, but it is tough to pull the trigger on scanning a guy you think is 50/50 to be dead in the morning.

06-01-2009, 06:55 AM	#1431
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	And none of this is suggesting that I think Danny is a wolf or anything like that - I think that is a really remote possibility that does not deserve any consideration. I'm just a little frustrated about not really having any kind of voice in the proceedings today and seeing someone who I trust appearing to take steps to do the exact opposite of what I think is the correct play during the last night and day phases. I can deal with the suspicion; I get it every game. I'm having a hard time dealing with near-100% villagers making moves seemingly just to go against what I think is correct because that just makes it all the easier for the wolves to close this out.

06-01-2009, 07:15 AM	#1433
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	On the topic of that 4th declaration - I'm still the only one who has been willing to declare the chosen role. Racer has been willing to pick his own role to declare. Lathum has not picked a role. Schmidty has not commented on picking a role. USFL and Telle - I do not think either posted over the weekend. However, I'm hoping each of the remaining players will be willing to follow the plan laid out by PB/Danny and declare a role. I'm feeling kind of lonely as the only person willing to declare vanilla villager and it is getting me even more suspicious of those who are not. Actually, this is not really true as I'm pretty damn sure that Schmidty, USFL, and Telle are all wolves if there are five of them at this stage. This was covered in Post #1354 and the following discussion.

06-01-2009, 09:10 AM	#1435
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	I am a vanilla villager. (This is actually the truth.) I am a vanilla wolf. (Just in case you all have some weird reason for wanting me dead.) Yeah, that's pretty schizo.

06-01-2009, 09:22 AM	#1437
USFLTecmo H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin	I am a Vanilla Villager (Like I've been saying all game. I won't be believed, I'll be killed, and then it will be obvious that I was telling the truth all along.)

06-01-2009, 11:17 AM	#1440
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	anyone know the vote count?

06-01-2009, 11:29 AM	#1441
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	As of post #1440: 1 - Racer - Lathum (1306) 2 - dubb - Racer (1280), Danny (1413) 5 - Lathum - dubb (1285), Tyrith (1293), saldana (1319), PurdueBrad (1378), hoopsguy (1387) Yet to vote: Schmidty, USFLTecmo, Telle

06-01-2009, 11:51 AM	#1444
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I' not sure what else I can say, apparently Danny wants us to lose the game. I'm not voting Dubb because he can be taken out at night by Danny. Racer can not. Danny also mentioned voting Tyrith, a move I would be willing to make to A. save my life and B. validate mine and PB's scans.

06-01-2009, 11:51 AM	#1445
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, I want to run through the matrix of assumptions for the vote today: 1.) Dubb, (presumed?) duke and believed seer, says that Lathum is a wolf 2.) Lathum, once accused, comes out as a seer (real/false/make-believe) and says that Racer is a wolf Now, there is a risk in believing Dubb on this because we could be at end game here. But, if we aren't going to string up Dubb today then here is what I would like to see happen. Put a tie in place for Lathum/Racer with Dubb abstaining from the vote if everyone else goes along with it. Dubb would be able to use the tie-breaker rule (as he has suggested it) to PM Barkeep with his vote, which would certainly be for Lathum since he has called Lathum as a wolf. I know Dubb has posted that Lathum is a wolf in the thread and thus will want to vote for him. But he was also frustrated that I tried to jeopardize his tie-break on Friday. So here would be a chance for him to prove it, especially if the last vote falls on Racer. I think there is a lot of risk with this plan - heck, there is a ton of risk. But does anyone else have a better scenario for allowing us to actually learn something about all three people (Dubb, Lathum, and Racer) at the same time? If this plays out poorly then Danny is going to whack me at night anyway. No one else has a single "Believe" vote on them yet for vanilla villager. If Dubb does have us in endgame then we still have to be 6-5 on the right candidate today and I haven't seen anything yet that suggests the rest of the villagers are committed to going after Dubb (or anyone else that I think is a wolf right now). Thoughts?

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