Baseball Mogul 2006 Preview Thread (Yes, Virginia, there ARE lefties and righties!)

[Ksyrup]

I might be missing it, but I don't see anything close to the Almanac that is in the other games. The sim speed is beautiful on this thing - I simmed 1901 to 1980 in about 30 minutes, but trying to de-construct what actually happened on a year-by-year basis was impossible, so the ability to sim that far that fast is kinda wasted. Maybe I'm missing where the good stuff is, though. I've seen the ability to check each team's year-by-year performance, but on a league-wide basis, I don't see it.

Also, there doesn't appear to be the ability to see all the players who have played in the league, except for current players and HoFers. For instance, I noticed that during one season, as the game was simming multiple seasons, a reliever for the Yankees won the Cy Young, which seemed awfully strange. I wanted to go back and check it out, but I don't see any way to do that now that I've simmed past his career and he didn't make the HoF.

Even little things like lists of world series winners, Cy Young, MVP, Rookie of the Year, etc., I don't see. I hope I'm just missing them.

I expect the immersion factor to be much better when I actually play a team week-by-week, but I do like simming some history before I start a league, and if I did that, I'd really have no clue how the league progressed and unfolded without watching it year-by-year.

Oh, and I echo LWSFS' comments about the HoF - 0 catchers, 1 1B, 7 2B, 0 3B, 8 SS, 8 OF... and 74 pitchers (!).

One small bug I saw was that at some point around the 60's/70's (maybe after the expansion in 1969), the news articles have a blank for the league. In other words, in announcing the Cy Young winner, it will say, "X lead his team to 114 victories, good for 1st place in the ." It was correct earlier, so I assume one of the expansions probably screwed it up.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Also, I am testing out a 2005 season and its in the middle of May of 2006 Alex Rodriguez, Marcus Giles, Nomar, Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns among other players are still free agents.

In terms of pitchers Halladay, Mulder and Zito are also still sitting out there.

Meanwhile, I can't get any of them for the same reason the computer hasn't picked them up yet. The financial component in this game is so difficult that if I did pick them up, I wouldl probably go into debt.

I do enjoy testing out the game, but hopefully this bug and other bugs that have been mentioned will be taken care of.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Maybe it is because I hit the equalize cities option. Perhaps if I didn't a rich team such as the yankees, red sox would swoop in and grab those guys.

[lynchjm24]

This will probably turn some of you guys off.

I'm in 2007 with the Blue Jays and I finally figured out how to watch my game.

Top of the first. Rios on 1st - one out. Kearns grounds to third.
Kearns is out and Rios stays planted at first.

Based loaded 2 outs. Hattig at the plate. Wild Pitch, run scores. Hattig gets credited with an RBI.

Both of these things happened in the top half of the first inning I ever 'played' out.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

Also, I am testing out a 2005 season and its in the middle of May of 2006 Alex Rodriguez, Marcus Giles, Nomar, Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns among other players are still free agents.

After 2 seasons I have the following players as FA's in mid season

Jason Bay 87 overall looking for 3.6 for 4
Jason Kendall 85 overall looking for 3.1 for 6
Bronson Arroyo 85 overall looking for 2.9 for 4
John Patterson 81 overall looking for 4.4 for 3
Luis Ayala 81 overall looking for 3.2 for 2

I didn't equalize cities. This isn't too horrible, some good players but Kendall is looking for 6 years and is 32 years old.

[OldGiants]

Back in 1998 Baseball Mogul was the game that first got me hooked on sports sims. When I installed the demo, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I think BM2000 is my last version, but reading this has gotten me excited about Mogul again, and I'll be picking it up when its released.

Oh yeah, splits don't mean much to me. I've rarely noticed the AI making significant decisions using that info in OOTP. For example, lefty hitters tend to have vs. RH abilities that are still higher than the player who could potentially platoon with them--and so the RH remains on the bench. This isn't Strat-O-matic where the season stats make players gods against certain types of pitching for one season.

[OldGiants]

Found the beta and started up as Baltimore. Nice interface. In looking over my roster, I noticed I have both Sosa and Jerry Hairston and the Cubs have neither. I suspect that's a Lahman issue, not a BM one, but there are a lot of Cub fans out there who will freak.

[Fouts]

Started the game twice, got a couple months in and it crashed. I believe it was while negotiating a trade. I tried to add money from the other team and game crashed. No save, so I was done.

Game looks interesting. I tried a 1901 league fantasy draft, but the contracts were too high for the teams and many stars were left to the end of the draft. It appears the game adds fantasy players to fill up rosters, just like Puresim. I may buy the game, depending on price.

[MizzouRah]

I think this game has a lot of bug squashing and tightening up before release.


Todd

[maximus]

Not to sound mean or anything but I will never buy another "Mogul" game again. I was fooled about 3 to many times before.

[Buccaneer]

Ksyrups, in your 1901-1919 sim, were you able to set up two leagues with 8 teams each? How does the 154 game schedule look?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Ksyrups, in your 1901-1919 sim, were you able to set up two leagues with 8 teams each? How does the 154 game schedule look?

It automatically sets up the proper league structure for the start year selected, and is set up to add expansion teams in the appropriate years. Not sure how the schedule looks.

[Buccaneer]

Thank you, I think that's pretty clever knowing that some (ping kcchief) had so much trouble adding expansion teams. From your League Setup screen, it looks like that can be customized if you want a team to stay put or swap leagues with another team. I think I may have missed it (wouldn't be the first time) but I assume that there is the option to not assign lahman rookies to their original teams and draft them instead?

[Ksyrup]

I had it set to add historical rookies to a draft, but I couldn't believe how many guys ended up on their correct teams. At one point, the Tigers drafted Lance Parrish, Lou Whitaker, and Alan Trammell and had them all in the minors. Unfortunately, even as decent prospects, they all seemed to stick in the minors for far too long, which probably goes to SD's aging issue.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by maximus

Not to sound mean or anything but I will never buy another "Mogul" game again. I was fooled about 3 to many times before.

If enough people rave about the game when it's released, you'll buy it.

If not, you wouldn't have posted in this thread.


Todd

[Galaril]

After playing out a season very slowly a week at a time. I have a few preliminary thoughts. First there are too many trade offers like five players for one. I had an offer for 5 of my players one of them was david Ortiz for one middel age player. the AI i s ceratinly not going to get riiped off in the trade area so I guess that's not too bad. i noticed in the amaeuteur draft at the end of season that most of the if not all of the best players were pitchers.Anoher thinhg that would be great is for starting pitchers be named SP and Relief pitchers be named RP in the roster screens. It is hard sometimes to find a starter to put in to replace a injured player. Now that brings me to injuries.I only played one season but it appears that there are way too many injuries at least on the human controled team. I was using the coach difficult,simulation mode and started in 2005 season. I also, noticed that the strategies and lineups for someteams was not that great. I saw the Red Sox running set to the max for steals though in real life and the game are slow as hell.Lineups management still nneds some tweaking maybe. I saw the allstar headline where it mentioned a player had two homeruns to increase his Season total. I don't know if it was added to his season total or not but at least the headline needs to be tweaked. There needs to be some kind of stats screen wheer you can easily see the stats for your teams players and all teams stats. I may jsut be missing it .I do remember someone mentioning that teh game was lacking an alamanac. So, it appears I am hating this game? No way .I actually am really, really enjoying it. I am a Puresim fan and this is alittle different than that. It has alot of personality and I hope Clay continues to tweak this game so it can be a classic.

[hoosierdude]

I am finding that the trades are very similar. They are very imbalanced, and some teams don't even try to trade in good faith at all. Also I noticed a bug when adding money to a trade offer, the game always crashes to desktop.

No other time have I been able to crash it, only in trades, when I submit the offer with money added to the trade.

The trades really do need to be firmed up, because for every 25 trades I get, I have maybe 2 that are doable for both sides.. and hardly ever one for one. mostly two or three to one or higher.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

This will probably turn some of you guys off.

I'm in 2007 with the Blue Jays and I finally figured out how to watch my game.

Top of the first. Rios on 1st - one out. Kearns grounds to third.
Kearns is out and Rios stays planted at first.

Based loaded 2 outs. Hattig at the plate. Wild Pitch, run scores. Hattig gets credited with an RBI.

Both of these things happened in the top half of the first inning I ever 'played' out.

Ouch. Earlier versions of BBM also had weird scoring issues - sad to see that they haven't been addressed yet.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Ouch. Earlier versions of BBM also had weird scoring issues - sad to see that they haven't been addressed yet.

Well, it has now been reported to Clay in the beta forum. No idea if it has been reported before now, but based on what I've seen so far, I'd anticipate a fix.

[MizzouRah]

Input from us here at FOFC can only make the game better. Just seeing Clay post here hopefully means a release date is not the most important thing and bug squashing is.


Todd

[lynchjm24]

I'd like to echo the thoughts on injuries.

I like a pretty high level of injuries in general, it's a bit of a short cut to getting the playing time spread around in a realisitic manner. I'm playing a pretty slow league the injuries are overbearing.

One huge positive is that if you take a small market team the game is extremely difficult.

Another positive is that some years the drafts are pitcher heavy and some years they are position player heavy.

Galaril as for a team stat page, if you go to Roster you can change the heading for the columns and choose the stats that you want to see in the report. It would be nice if you could save a couple of different 'views' though instead of having to keep changing them as the players names don't stay visable as you scroll left to right.

[Ragone]

I have a not so serious question....

Is superstud Joey long still in the game?

[Bee]

I'm curious about the lack of an "Almanac" feature that Ksyrup mentioned earlier in the thread. Is this something that might be added for this version?

Hopefully, Clay is allowed to take his time and fix the known issues before releasing the game. If not, I really hope he can get patches out quickly after the release.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I seriously doubt that he'd do that, nor would I recomment it. As I said, I'd be someone who would prefer to play with the possibility of *no* variance.

I also think one thing should be said here. With such a small range for all players (essentially 10 points between average and "Hall-of-Famer"), I would think there would be some varience in performance between guys with an 84, for instance. In other words, even if scouting is dead on, I would think that two guys with an 84 could have distinctly different seasons based on their teams, how they were used and the in-game engine probabilities. So, with that backdrop, Skydog may be more accurate by saying the 100% accuracy for numbers on top-level scouting is preferred. But, just because a guy is rated 84 doesn't mean he will do better than someone that is 82 or 83. And, again, with such a small range of values, I'm guessing any small variation (ie, 2-3 regardless) could deem even the top scouting unreliable.

[OldGiants]

My litmus test for historical simming is the 1961 season. I've yet to come across a computer sim that comes close to replicating this season, in particular Mantle and Maris. Using OOTP and Puresim I've never gotten more than 44 or so homers out of Maris, and he usually hits below .240, too. The big homerun hitter is often Wally Post, of the Reds, who is over 50 half the time. Post platooned with Jerry Lynch, who is famous for pinch hitting, but had a solid season in 1961. No sim ever selects Lynch over Post (even the vaunted R/L splits in OOTP don't project Lynch into the starting lineup).

Looking at a dozen or so sims of 1961 (and I love the speed) the Post problem is there, in that he plays, but he doesn't knock 50 HRs. No one, does, mostly. Lynch is either sent to AAA (WTF?) or traded, which makes some sense. The Reds and Yanks have won every replay, splitting the WS about evenly. The Yankees have wierd roster issues all the time, though. Berra catches and Howard is on the bench, saying he wants to be traced to KC or Washington (which is great). What's not great is Berra and Howard have the same arm rating. Yogi couldn't throw at all by 1961 while Howard was one of the top 2-3 arms in baseball. The Yankee pitching staff uses Mel Stottlemyre from day one (no way to avoid that, I suppose) but has Luis Arroyo in AA ball while Rhyne Duren is the closer. Duren had drunk himself onto the expansion Angels (he was traded for Bob Cerv early on, so his being a Yankee is correct), and was no longer dominant. 19-yr olds Al Downing and Fritz Peterson were on the staff all season long.

Looking at other teams, Cleveland does better in BM because 18 yr old Sam McDowell comes up three seasons early, as does 20 yr old Luis Tiant (he was really 47 at the time, but the computer doesn't know that, either).

So I'd say the roster selection needs work, and not only for leaving kids down too long. the Red Sox have 19 year old Jim Wynn in the bigs, while Yaz sits in A ball, dreaming of playing for Cleveland.

Statwise, 1961 produces high team HR totals, however, the Yanks set the team record for homers with 221 in reality, and I can't get them over 200 in BM, while Cincy, Mil and either SF or LA go over 200 regularly.

So I'm not too psyched on historic replays, but the regular 2005-to-fictional is coming along smoothly and I'm taking my time with the O's.

[Ksyrup]

Some of your gripes appear to be database issues (arm strength, etc.), as well as comparing what a fictional GM would do as opposed to what occurred in real life. I'm not sure it's entirely fair to hold the AI to what occurred in real life, when it's making decisions based on the imported ratings. How would the computer know that Ryne Duren is a drunk by 1961, if he imports with decent enough ratings to make the pitching staff? Even in simulation mode, there appears to be an "x-factor" that will vary how each player develops and won't leave each player on the exact career path he took in real life.

It seems like you are looking for more of as S-O-M or DM-type replay season than what these types of games are focused on. I know they offer that oportunity, but they are mainly career sim-oriented.

[OldGiants]

Database issues? Aren't they both using Lahman? Why does OOTP make Duren a bum and BM has him the closer? Its got to be more than a database issue.

On the x-factor, the same thing happens every sim, there's no variation. I could live with sometimes McDowell comes up, some times he doesn't, but he's always up.

And I started out by saying no sim comes close to getting 1961 correct, so, no I"m not looking for SOM, merely closer to reality than the game is getting. For this one season, BM is doing a worse job than OOTP or Puresim. 1961 is a tough test, all games have failed. BM was a little worse, IMO.

More testing is required, but I'm skeptical.

[Ksyrup]

I just thinnk you're asking too much of a career sim to accurately reflect individual's performances in one year.

I've now run the 1901-1980 sim twice - once Babe Ruth became a HoF pitcher, once he was pretty mediocre. There is some variation inherent in the game, as in all games except those that are strictly one-year replays, where the intent is to mirror precisely what happened. When you add in minor leagues, AI trades, etc., you're bound to get decisions that don't refect what actually occurred.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just thinnk you're asking too much of a career sim to accurately reflect individual's performances in one year.

Yes, you're right about that. I'm mostly hoping.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

How would the computer know that Ryne Duren is a drunk by 1961, if he imports with decent enough ratings to make the pitching staff?

What it knows in OOTP is that the remaining years of his career are garbage and it adjusts his ratings accordingly. In OOTP, There's a box where you indicate if you want a player's ratings based on his average career or what's left. BM2005 needs this feature, IMO.

Thinking about it, this lack could very well be the reason BM2005 hangs on to vets too long. Its looking at the average career, and not what's left when you start up. So a player like Duke Snider, who had a respectable 1961, looks like a 34-yr old star instead of a guy who would be picked by the Mets in 1962 and waddle around the Polo Grounds in his last hurrah. BM2005 needs to weight that dismal last season(s) of over the hill vets more.

[OldGiants]

I decided to start up a 1901 replay and I've gotten to 1905. The Cy Young award winner in 1901 and 1902 is the aforementioned Winslow Frame.

Do not look him up in the Baseball Encyclopedia, for he does not exist. If you Google him, you will be referred to the painter Winslow Homer, or the architect Frank Lloyd Wright.

I have to assume he's filler on the St Louis Browns, but what a filler! His overall rating is only 73, and he starts out at age 38 with no MLB experience. In 1901, he went 20-4 with an ERA of 1.75 in 261 innings. He allowed a league high 11 HRs, but made up for that by only walking 14. Curiously, he struck out only 3 batters all season long.

In 1902 he went 28-7, 1.66 ERA and in 314 innings pitched he struck out 1 batter.

"I really didn't want to embarass him, but he swung anyway," Winslow said of his solitary victim.

After four seasons, he's pitched 1030 innings and whiffed 10. In 1904 he walked 74 and whiffed 3, so he's about done.

Ah, Winslow, we hardly knew ye.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

In 1902 he went 28-7, 1.66 ERA and in 314 innings pitched he struck out 1 batter.

"I really didn't want to embarass him, but he swung anyway," Winslow said of his solitary victim.

LOL. Plus, he's a moneyball dream with that 1/11 K/BB ratio

[OldGiants]

I restarted from 1901 to see if this would happen again, and it did. This time Manuel Isambero of the Browns won the Cy Young in 1901, 1902 and 1903. At that point, he retired and I can't look him up in the player database because its 1906 and he's been deleted.

I'll give it a third try, but I suspect this a 'feature.'

I don't mind a real, little used guy like Butch Wensloff becoming a Cy Young winner, but I'm uncomfortable with this situation. The old-timers like Mathewson aren't winning the awards because of these roster fillers.

[jbmagic]

it only knows ratings not names.

[OldGiants]

Hmm. ran another 1901 and discovered the pitcher with the most strikeouts was Rube Waddell with 28 in 196 innings. In reality, he had 210 in 276 innings and there were about 8 pitchers over 200 k's.

What's with this?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

Hmm. ran another 1901 and discovered the pitcher with the most strikeouts was Rube Waddell with 28 in 196 innings. In reality, he had 210 in 276 innings and there were about 8 pitchers over 200 k's.

What's with this?

post in the beta forum and bug forum too. so they can take a look at it.

i notice Skydog been posting more over there.

the betaforum and bug forum you can see the status of the game and how much progress needs to be done still.

[Bee]

You do realize the game is still in beta?

Sounds like strikeouts are screwed up and needs fixed (at least in the historic simulations). I'd suggest reporting it to the developer along with your tests.

It's good that people are testing these things, but to act shocked that a beta has problems is a little naive.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

it only knows ratings not names.

I don't care what name they have, these fictional players should not be in an historic replay.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

I don't care what name they have, these fictional players should not be in an historic replay.

if your using the beta, please report that also in the bug forum, so it will be fix.

Beta 7.72 coming out today

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Bee

You do realize the game is still in beta?

Did you realize that Clay wants to go gold in less than a week?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Did you realize that Clay wants to go gold in less than a week?

wow after reading the bug and beta forum, i cant see how this game can be ready in less than a week.

i hope they take there time before they release this game.

[Ben E Lou]

Actually, I believe this is the last thing that Clay has said publicly about a release:



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup
The demo will be available this month, or week? Isn't the d/l version supposed to be available for purchase in less than 2 weeks?

We actually build the demo AFTER the full game is done, since we just have to add some code that limits it to a single-season.

And I said this month because if I said the actual target date (probably around March 19th), I'd get reamed when we miss it by a few days.



Clay

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

And as I said then, it isn't like Clay has ever made a release date on time anyway....

In all seriousness, betas tend to be fast-and-furious 18-hour-day type situations as the release nears. Markus, Shaun, and Arlie all released new beta builds (the equivalent of a post-release patch that fixes multiple issues) every 18-36 hours, and sometimes even more often than that. When Beta 7.72 is posted, it will be the fourth build I've had in the five days since I was given access to the beta.

[Ben E Lou]

Yup. Today's build has 14 fixes in it, including tackling the player aging issues and several other things that have been mentioned in this thread.

[Ben E Lou]

Running a long-term sim to test player rookie talent/player development tweaks. I still can't get over how fast this thing sims. I think it is faster than previous versions of Mogul--which weren't exactly slow.

[Jeff Olsen]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

What it knows in OOTP is that the remaining years of his career are garbage and it adjusts his ratings accordingly. In OOTP, There's a box where you indicate if you want a player's ratings based on his average career or what's left. BM2005 needs this feature, IMO.

BBM normally has ratings based either on current performance or up to 25 years in the future. The "look ahead" was removed from the beta because people were getting confused about its purpose.

[Ben E Lou]

POTENTIALLY IMPORTANT POLL POSTED BY CLAY: http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin...threadid=69985

(Should I start a thread to highlight this? This goes to the heart of the direction and emphasis of the game, if you ask me.)

[Ben E Lou]

Clay was wanting to make sure expansion and team moves was working properly when a career was started near the year of expansion, so I started a career in 1961. Fast-simmed through that season, and after the season:

"The Washington Sentaors have moved. They are now the Minnesota Twins."

"The following two teams are being added to the league:
Los Angeles Angels
Washington Senators"

I'm allowed to protect 15 players on the team before the expansion draft. I protect mostly starters, and the AI does a pretty nice job of going after 50/80 prospects rather than 74/74 veterans.

[Buccaneer]

Why is that poll important? One historical era is not more important than another one. The poll should have been historical leagues vs current leagues vs fictional leagues. That's really the only breakdown.

I appreciate the work everyone has done on historical leagues, it's always been the poor stepchild of sports sims. I won't go to the extreme of my old friend, OG, but a game should be able to model historical leagues as well as future leagues because both would show the ups and downs of franchises, stats and ratings. Having a league go to a "Ruthian Era" like the 1920s is no different than a surge in offense in the 2040s. Better hitters coming into the league - whether it's 1920 or 2040 - along with changes in stadiums and other factors should be the same algorithm. Why would anyone assume the baseball would (or should) be static over time?

[jbmagic]

Free agents signing is too easy

it seems liek you can grab all the good free agents in the offseason before the amatuer draft.

seems like you can sign higher than the cash you have on hand too. and player will accept it and sign with you.

or just give them what they ask for and you get the player.

i just sign Barry Bonds and Albert Pujols as free agent.

i wish you can submitt a bid like in ootp.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Why is that poll important?

If the developer is posting such a poll when he's relatively close to releasing the game, the obvious guess is that he's trying to prioritize where he spends most of his time between now and the release. My guess is that if it can be shown that an overwhelming majority of customers/potential customers care most about 2005 and beyond, then more emphasis will be put on fictional players, player development, fictional draft classes, realistic statistical output, etc. for that time frame.