Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!!! (OOTP 2007 release thoughts!!!)

[Atocep]

I could be wrong, but I think its refering to the possibility of Rookies being drafted in June and being promoted directly to the majors. Instead you should hold it after the season in Nov/Dec.

[Fouts]

Game is running pretty smoothly for me so far. I'm managing in the minors, and appreciate the emails telling me of player movement.

There was a problem with one of them though: a player of mine was traded by the big club, but there was no email of him leaving my roster in the transaction news. There was mention of receiving a player (that was involved in the trade), but it said (signed FA) instead of received in trade.

I did receive a different email detailing the trade, and I happened to recognize the name of my starting LFer.

[Fouts]

Oh, and the game screwing with my lineups everyday is pissing me off. I have "Setting Lineups/Depth/Pitching Staff" set to me, but it keeps making changes. I have to use the 7 day lineups as a workaround until I find out why this keeps happening.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Oh, and the game screwing with my lineups everyday is pissing me off. I have "Setting Lineups/Depth/Pitching Staff" set to me, but it keeps making changes. I have to use the 7 day lineups as a workaround until I find out why this keeps happening.

I just tested it and you are right, the AI is doing deep chart and pitching order moves in the minor team that you are managing as GM.

I have just registered the issue in the Test Tracker tool, the TT number is #2994

I'm pretty sure it worked fine in the past, but in the latest beta builds Markus added some new options to the AI managing the minors and probably it was then when this bug was introduced (just guessing).

[Ksyrup]

All I've been able to do is set up a test historical league and run about 40 seasons last night. Honestly, the number of decisions to make about league structure and such make even setting up the league seem somewhat overwhelming. Trying to track down all of the little rules I need to tweak in the various menus is somewhat frustrating, but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it.

My biggest concern right now is what database to use. I'm using Lahman simply because Gambo's database says it is designed specifically for the "recalc every year" option, which I do NOT want. So, I'm sacrificing some realism (mostly, as I understand it, importing players in the year they make their ML debut rather than the year they signed their first contract, as Gambo's does), but I'd rather do it that way then screw up my league because I'm not using the recalc option.

For someone wanting to set up an historical league not using the recalc option, what databases/settings would you guys recommend? I'm just having the game place the rookies on their original teams, so I've disabled the rookie draft. For instance, if I'm starting in 1920, I've turned off free agency, but should I leave financials on? Will that result in cash-strapped teams, and if so, will that lead to them letting guys go or trading away stars? I hope so. I haven't looked at the stats yet, but I recall seeing "X player chooses to sign with X team," which I assume, with no free agency set, means that a guy was let go and signed elsewhere, or just resigned with his current team and the game is treating it as a "free agency signing" story.

I'm about to check out the stats for my 1920-1959 sim.

[Ksyrup]

Is there a way to view historical box scores? Say, I want to look at the game-by-game box scores for a certain team through history. Or, I want to look at the World Series results - not just who played and who won, but the individual games in each World Series. If that's in here, I must be missing it or it's hidden.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is there a way to view historical box scores? Say, I want to look at the game-by-game box scores for a certain team through history. Or, I want to look at the World Series results - not just who played and who won, but the individual games in each World Series. If that's in here, I must be missing it or it's hidden.

You need to use the almanac options for stuff like that

[molson]

Is there a demo available now or sometime today? On the site, it says, "Download a Free Trial Now", which I guess doesn't mean "Right Now", because I can't find it anywhere.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Icy

I just tested it and you are right, the AI is doing deep chart and pitching order moves in the minor team that you are managing as GM.

I have just registered the issue in the Test Tracker tool, the TT number is #2994

I'm pretty sure it worked fine in the past, but in the latest beta builds Markus added some new options to the AI managing the minors and probably it was then when this bug was introduced (just guessing).

Sorry, but all works properly here. Make sure your manager options are set so you control all aspects of the minors.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting "alternate" history in my league so far. I started in 1920, so Babe Ruth was a stud, of course, to begin with, but at the end of 1925 suffered torn ankle ligaments and was out 8 months. In 1927, his first full year back, he had a hernia, bruised cheekbone, and herniated disk within 4 months of each other, and he was never the same, eventually having a couple more serious injuries in 1932 and 1933. Interestingly, though, he stuck around as a part-time player/pinch hitter until 1940 (age 45), even though he was essentially done as a full-time player by 1930. He had 294 ABs in 1930, and only 2 years after that with more than 100 ABs in any season. He ended up with 477 HRs and 6 MVP awards (1920-1925).

Lou Gehrig, OTOH, never got ALS and finished with 771 HRs and 12 straight MVP awards. The Yankees pretty well under-performed during the 20s, but starting in 1933, went on a championship binge, winning (not just getting there) 13 of 14 titles. Only the Tigers in 1936 kept them from 14 straight.

And the Phillies were hardly doormats... they basically played the role of Brooklyn Dodgers to the Yankees during the 30s and 40s - getting there many times, but losing every one.

This is great stuff.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

You need to use the almanac options for stuff like that

So the history is different than the almanac? I haven't even seen an almanac option. Man, I've got a lot of learnin' to do.

[Ksyrup]

OK, I found the almanac option, but that's something I probably want to generate only after I'm done simming my history, right?

I'll tell you, the ability to sort the stat columns is freaking beautiful. Instead of seeing the list of longest hit streaks in chronological order and trying to figure out who has the longest streak, you can just sort that column. Or, to see which pitchers have thrown multiple no-hitters, just sort the name column to switch from chronological order. Such a little thing that adds so much. Now, if we could just do something about sorting transactions/awards/injuries, etc., on each player's card, this would just about be perfect.

I know, I know...next year.

[Ksyrup]

Small issue on the column sorting...with the 15+ K stat, when you sort the K column, it is sorting by innings pitched, not strikeouts. Small issue, since the spread is top K results is small (in my universe, there's only been a handful of 16 and 15-strikeout games), but it's something that should be corrected if possible.

[Ksyrup]

Anyone else playing, or am I going to go for the All-Time Dola String Award? Quick, someone call the Guiness Book people!

[Ksyrup]

I love seeing news articles about managers being fired in the middle of a season.

[Young Drachma]

I agree with the sentiments about it being overwhelming to some degree. It's always been that way, but now it's like "whoa". It's not a bad thing necessarily and I'm getting back into the swing of it all. I spent almost all of yesterday trying to get leagues set up and so, I really haven't gotten too far into a league. I simmed about 40 years last night of the league I'm going to start with.

I'm just glad that so far, I've been able to actually see the game and play, rather than having to waste time with bug after bug. So I'm just taking it all in at the moment.

[Young Drachma]

I'm glad we can finally add/delete leagues in universes on the fly. That's probably the thing that makes me the happiest. The high school and college feeder leagues amaze me.

[King of New York]

Yes, I'm playing...playing so much that I have not had time to post.

OOTP 2k7 is far superior to 6.51. I'm three seasons into a historical sim that started with a fantasy draft. I have not had a single crash, and the numbers are coming out great. I'm a little puzzled about the free agent drafts, 'cause the AI drafted nearly all pitchers in the first two rounds, but this is the deadball era, so I guess it's hard to pass up on all those guys whose ERA's are going to be in the low 2s.

When I went to bed last night, I was totally bummed that I had to go to work the next day, because what I really wanted to do was stay at home and mess around with OOTP some more. That's the mark of an engrossing sim!

Be forewarned, though--you will spend the first few hours just feeling your way around the game and the set-up options. After a while, though, between the bookmarks and the hot buttons on the bottom of the screen, navigation gets much faster.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, I wanted to call in sick yesterday. But I went in and played a bit there. Today, I decided that with it being Friday and having a crazy week next week, that it was time to take an OOTP holiday.

[Ksyrup]

This historical stuff is so fun to follow, I'm not sure when I'll get to the point where I want to take over a team as manager. How about that?

I just simmed through the 1961 season, where Washington Senators and Los Angeles Angels were added. Going on the suggestion of someone from the OOTP board (or maybe it was Tiger Fan posting here), I decided to let teams protect only 20 guys instead of the recommended 25, and these teams ended up far better than they probably should have. Both were right around .500 in their first seasons, a bit unrealistic.

What's most interesting about it, though, is seeing who was left unprotected. Washington's got Sandy Koufax, for example! I need to look at his RL stats to see how good he was pre-1961, but in my game, he's been a starter/reliever struggling with injuries, so it makes some sense that he was left unprotected. Leon Wagner, who in RL ended up playing a big rol on the LAA expansion team, got drafted by the Senators and put up a great year. They also got aging Bobby Shantz in a trade, not the draft, and he won 16 games with a 3.01 ERA. Interestingly, he was apparently left unprotected in the 1962 expansion draft and will be a member of the Mets!

Maury Wills was drafted by the LAA in the expansion draft out of AAA, and the Angels also benefited from a questionable trade for Harvey Kuenn for a scrub.

We'll see how the next set of expansion teams goes, but I'm thinking the protected list should be at least 25, because it looks like too many decent players are being picked by the expansion teams. and they are doing a decent job of trading for some talent, as well.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Yeah, I wanted to call in sick yesterday. But I went in and played a bit there. Today, I decided that with it being Friday and having a crazy week next week, that it was time to take an OOTP holiday.

I wanted to call in sick today to relax and play this, but I'm taking vacation time next week (because my mom is visiting) so I felt too guilty to actually do it. I can't wait to dig into a career tomorrow. I did let the game sim some history for my league last night and I also saw some very cool alternate histories that I'll post a bit about tomorrow.

[Ksyrup]

Anyone have a suggestion for best trading option? I went with favor rookies, but now I'm wondering whether I should have gone with neutral to facilitate a few more deals of good young players to other teams. I guess for an historical sim, it just depends on how close to real you want it. I'm pretty much seeing the same great players with the teams they actually played for, but it would be nice to see the occasional HoFer on a different team.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I wanted to call in sick today to relax and play this, but I'm taking vacation time next week (because my mom is visiting) so I felt too guilty to actually do it. I can't wait to dig into a career tomorrow. I did let the game sim some history for my league last night and I also saw some very cool alternate histories that I'll post a bit about tomorrow.

I always feel guilty to call in sick. Always. But...we have consultants come out from California next week for a project that I'm managing and so I'll be dealing with that junk for the first half of the week, I'm doing some other stuff Thursday and moving Friday.

And the office was pretty dead most of this week with a few key people being out. And the most weird thing is, I always find it easier to call my boss to tell her I'm going to be out than I do just calling a coworker to tell them that I'm not coming in. So now that she's back since yesterday, it made it easier for me.

Mostly, I just didn't feel like driving (it's about 50 miles one way) today. The game was a heck of an excuse to put me over the top. lol

[vtbub]

What time is it being released for us suckers who bought it today?

It's like crack, I get sucked back in.

[Ksyrup]

OK, this is a bit unrealistic.. In the middle of the 1962 season, the Red Sox traded 43 year old Ted Williams to the Colt .45s. Which wouldn't be THAT big a deal, except for 2 things - during his 3 months with Houston, he (a) got his 4000th hit, and (b) broke Gehrig's all-time HR record. Apparently Boston wasn't interested in the free publicity and goodwill that Williams' accomplishments would have generated, because they really had to have Chico Fernandez!

I'm not sure how you fix something like that, but...!

Oh, and the expansion teams in 1962 weren't as good - Houston lost 88 and the Mets lost 98. But Washington and LAA both ended up over .500 in their second years. I still think 25 is probably the right number for the protected list.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by vtbub

What time is it being released for us suckers who bought it today?

It's like crack, I get sucked back in.

Well, they released the pre-order around this time yesterday. So...one might figure that they shouldn't keep you all waiting too much longer. I hope.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

OK, this is a bit unrealistic.. In the middle of the 1962 season, the Red Sox traded 43 year old Ted Williams to the Colt .45s. Which wouldn't be THAT big a deal, except for 2 things - during his 3 months with Houston, he (a) got his 4000th hit, and (b) broke Gehrig's all-time HR record. Apparently Boston wasn't interested in the free publicity and goodwill that Williams' accomplishments would have generated, because they really had to have Chico Fernandez!

Well, it makes sense from the standpoint that they traded an older player for a younger one who can be potentially more productive for longer. The only reason you keep a guy around for his 4000th hit and to break the all-time home run record are for decidedly human reasons. 1) The perceived increase in attendance you'd get in RL 2) Seeing the guy break the record in that team's uniform and 3) The sentimental value of having an aging veteran whose had a storied career finish in your city.

I don't see the game factoring any of this in, so it probably worked as designed. And taking the character out of it, seems like that's probably for the best.

[MizzouRah]

Keep 'em coming guys! I'm heading for home later today and will have tonight and tomorrow with no kids and ootp.

Ksyrup - you're going to be our resident historical advisor. I need to know the best way to start from the beginning and have a nice alternate universe created.. from there I think I'll take over a team that stinks at some point in time - or maybe an expansion team.

[Buccaneer]

Ksyrup, thanks for your thoughts. You and I see this game similarly. I can really relate to how you are playing.

Reading through some of the historical sections in the manual last night (and will continue today), I think I will like the number of options in setting up a historical league. I can play this the way I have always played OOTP 5 but I do think I want to try a couple of new things: expansion draft and something else I'm forgetting right now.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I could be wrong, but I think its refering to the possibility of Rookies being drafted in June and being promoted directly to the majors. Instead you should hold it after the season in Nov/Dec.

...or hold it after the season in Jan/Feb.????

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by vtbub

What time is it being released for us suckers who bought it today?

It's like crack, I get sucked back in.

true true

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Well, it makes sense from the standpoint that they traded an older player for a younger one who can be potentially more productive for longer. The only reason you keep a guy around for his 4000th hit and to break the all-time home run record are for decidedly human reasons. 1) The perceived increase in attendance you'd get in RL 2) Seeing the guy break the record in that team's uniform and 3) The sentimental value of having an aging veteran whose had a storied career finish in your city.

I don't see the game factoring any of this in, so it probably worked as designed. And taking the character out of it, seems like that's probably for the best.

I agree, but I think trying to put as much "human factor" into the game is part of what developers strive for. It's why FM has been so popular, because of the interactions with media/owners. That's decidedly "human," in some respects.

I don't know if there's a good way to guard against this, since you're right, the game is probably not sophisticated enough to generate additional attendance, etc., around these events, so the AI does not see the advantage of keeping him around. But for the "human feel" of the game, it would be nice to have a rule which would prevent something that otherwise wouldn't occure IRL.

I mean, look at the Bonds situation - he's the most hated man in sports, and the Giants are riding his assault on the HR record through it all. Hard to believe the Red Sox would trade a future HoFer about to hit 2 huge milestones just to pick up a second baseman with a career .250 average.

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hard to believe the Red Sox would trade a future HoFer about to hit 2 huge milestones just to pick up a second baseman with a career .250 average.

Bagwell for Larry Andersen.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Keep 'em coming guys! I'm heading for home later today and will have tonight and tomorrow with no kids and ootp.

Ksyrup - you're going to be our resident historical advisor. I need to know the best way to start from the beginning and have a nice alternate universe created.. from there I think I'll take over a team that stinks at some point in time - or maybe an expansion team.

Geez, I'm not sure how much of an advisor I can be. I stumbled my way through the set up of this league, actually. I'll probably create a bunch of test leagues making some minor tweaks to see how things evolve before I settle in on a "real" league to continue playing with into the future. And I'm sure there will be a patch of some sorts (although from my vantage point, the game is very stable), so I'll probably wait for that as well.

From my perusal of the stats, I'm not seeing major issues with the Lahman database. I can see, though, that if you were to take over an historical team, how Gambo's database would be far more interesting, because you'd be getting future players several years in advance of their actual ML experience. Right now, with Lahman, I imagine that once you see a Gehrig/Musial/Williams/Aaron type pop up in your minor leagues, you would probably not leave him in the minors for long at all, whereas someone like that who was a couple of years younger would probably need the development time. Also, if I had, say, Mike Schmidt as a 19-year old, and I wasn't recalculating every year, I guess there would be even more of an X factor as to whether he would develop like he did IRL, which would be a benefit (IMO) to playing out an historical career.

I hope someone comes up with an improved database for those of us not wanting to recalc every year. But in the meantime, Lahman works fine.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Bagwell for Larry Andersen.

When I say future HoFer, I'm talking a guy who already has 750+ HRs, not a prospect.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I mean, look at the Bonds situation - he's the most hated man in sports, and the Giants are riding his assault on the HR record through it all. Hard to believe the Red Sox would trade a future HoFer about to hit 2 huge milestones just to pick up a second baseman with a career .250 average.

But there was a lot of talk about Bonds moving to an AL team this year. I'm sure the Giants would have been happy to trade him for the right deal. And didn't Rose get his 4,000th hit with the Expos? I don't think the Williams example is THAT unrealistic.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

But there was a lot of talk about Bonds moving to an AL team this year. I'm sure the Giants would have been happy to trade him for the right deal. And didn't Rose get his 4,000th hit with the Expos? I don't think the Williams example is THAT unrealistic.

Rose wasn't closely ID'd with a particular team like Wiilliams was (even in my replay), and the only reason there was even a question about Bonds is because of the steroids thing, which is my point - even given the negative publicity, they're still keeping Bonds around for the HR chase.

[vtbub]

'tis been released.

[Ksyrup]

Hard to believe, but the Yankees have been even MORE dominant in my replay than IRL. 33 trips to the World Series, 22 championships. And that's with a delayed start, since they weren't all that great during the '20s. From 1933 through 1968, there have been only 5 years that they DIDN'T make the World Series. The only trend I'm seeing now is that since 1961, they have made the WS 6 out of 7 years, but only won once. Progress, I guess - somewhat like the current Yankees teams.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by molson

Is there a demo available now or sometime today? On the site, it says, "Download a Free Trial Now", which I guess doesn't mean "Right Now", because I can't find it anywhere.

Out now
http://www.ootpbaseball.net/downloads.php

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Out now
http://www.ootpbaseball.net/downloads.php

OOTP Baseball 2007

More mirror sites wanted!

PC Setup files

• ootpdevfiles
• rapidshare
• younglifenorthdekalb.com

PC Try and Buy Demo

• ootpdevfiles
• rapidshare
• younglifenorthdekalb.com
• worthplaying.com

Mac Try and Buy Demo

• ootpdevfiles
• rapidshare
• younglifenorthdekalb.com

[Ksyrup]

This is what makes the game so much fun:

Wayne Belardi - IRL, played 7 seasons with Brooklyn and Detroit (1950-56), a part-time, .242 hitter with 28 career HRs.

In my league...he's still active, and still with the Dodgers, but he's got a lifetime .280 average with 535 career HRs, good for 9th all-time (in 1968)!

Sandy Koufax...retired after spending the 1961 season on the expansion Senators, with a lifetime 50-48 record, 9 saves, and a 4.04 ERA.

[Ben E Lou]

I should have some pretty good modifiers for fictional leagues ready to be released around lunchtime today, fyi.

[Ksyrup]

Damn, history wasn't kind to Koufax/Drysdale in my league. Drysdale started great, then lost 2 years to dead arm syndrome (he ended up back in the minors for those 2 years after 2 great years and a so-so year), made it back to the Bigs in 1961 and retired in 1966 with an 83-99 record and 4.73 ERA.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I should have some pretty good modifiers for fictional leagues ready to be released around lunchtime today, fyi.

HERE's the man with the plan.

Do you have any thoughts on the database issue?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

HERE's the man with the plan.

Do you have any thoughts on the database issue?

No clue. I haven't touched historical stuff.

[Ksyrup]

The war-time players are an issue dealing with, it seems. Butch Wensloff had a very good year for the Yankees in 1943 IRL - I assume he wasa fill-in and only in the Bigs because of the war. IRL, he didn't play again until 1947 and barely in 1948, then he was gone. Thanks to his great rookie season in 1943, though, he ended up having a 263-132 career record with a 3.20 ERA. I assume there are several like him sprinkled throughout my league. No wonder the Yankees have been so dominant...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

No clue. I haven't touched historical stuff.

Bah!

[Ksyrup]

Yep, here's another - Arnold Carter, parlayed a good 1944 season for the Reds IRL into a 248 win career in my game. Not sure there's much you can do about this, aside from watching the sim closely during these years and "playing God" with these guys' careers. Ordinarily, I like seeing these kinds of surprises, but these guys are only getting a boost because of artificial numbers they attained IRL playing against watered-down competition, and not some sort of X factor that turned them into great players.

[King of New York]

Right now I'm using the Gambo database, but with recalc turned off--it''ll be interesting to see how player development pans out down the road.

Another thought: so far, I'm liking the trade AI. I've left everything trade-related set to "normal," and I have found that, in terms of quality, the AI has handled itself well--if I want quality players, I have to give up quality players. Even better, the AI does not bombard me with lop-sided deals--its proposals during the winter meetings have all been plausible.

My 1903 Cardinals have a middle infield consisting of Nap Lajoie and Honus Wagner! Unfortunately, at first base I have two guys named Hughie and Klondike, neither of whom can hit a lick. I moved Willie Keeler to 3B, where he is a butcher in the field--every ground ball is an adventure.