WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN

[dzilla77]

I am going to trust Danny's hunch as well

Vote MrBug

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Zinto

My least favorite part of living on campus. Also this is off topic totally of this forums but Wayne is one of the schools I thought about going to(I am from Royal Oak)

Also lame that you guys killed me

I thought it was very cool myself.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

My fear is that the sheriff has been converted.

I wonder if that's what has happened too or has just been unlucky as there has been multiple targets for him to protect.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Because of your knowledge of the dark arts, you immediately recognize him. This was his role:


The Unhallowed – You are a former minister who has fallen and become a servant of the red death. You appear to be a minister in every normal way, and if followed at night by the Detective, he will see you studying the Bible and going to church. You may take kill or corrupt actions as your group sees fit.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Due to your knowledge of the Servants you are able to research his role.



Order of Vladd, Second Rank – You are a vampire and the leader of this group of Servants of the Red Death. At night, you can be sent to either try to corrupt or to kill. During the day, just once during the game, you can Enthrall someone. That person will be forced to change their vote and will be unable to change it back. You must do this at least one hour before the deadline. You are immune to dying through any method other than via an attack on The Priest (but not a corruption) and the Sacred Flame. You cannot be identified by the Adept and you will kill the Detective if you encounter him at night spying on you. You will instantly know if you have been targeted by someone, but not who or why. You have a Night Ability, Mesmerize, which you can only use once, on Night One.

Figured I would pull up the dead bad guy descriptions together. My initial takeaway from this is that NTN was not a vampire. Zinto was explicitly listed as a vampire, NTN was not. The death descriptions, going from memory did not allude to NTN as a vampire but did call out Zinto as one (you know how to deal with his kind, or something to that effect). No idea how the Servants may operate, but I think there is enough here to suggest two bad guy teams.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by dzilla77

OK, all caught up on the night actions.

I exorcised CF last night - no effect. Doesn't mean he's good, just that he's not possessed.

I think that was a good choice dzilla-with his late vote movement to zinto, it was certainly a possibility that he was possessed.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I wonder if that's what has happened too or has just been unlucky as there has been multiple targets for him to protect.

I think there are a lot of potential explanations for the Sheriff's lackluster performance, with conversion being one of them. But I would take "the field" over conversion, if I was a betting man.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Incidentally I think it's clear that both Zinto and NTN were original wolves. It seems to me that we now have to start thinking in terms of players who have been converted. I would guess that there is only one starting wolf left in the game. I'm guessing Zinto converted someone night one and there may have been another conversion/going to be a conversion. If Mesmerise = conversion (which seems pretty likely to me) then we want someone who looked like a good choice on day one but hasn't wreathed themselves in glory since then.

I'm thinking their might have been three to start the game-maybe different factions, but yes ntn and zinto had to be original wolves. The converted likely voted for me yesterday, so I'll be voting for one of them today unless someone comes up with some different information for us.

[Thomkal]

well have to vote for one of the people who voted for me yesterday. Did not like the late votes from both Raiders and Chief on me, so lets start there.

vote raiders army

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Figured I would pull up the dead bad guy descriptions together. My initial takeaway from this is that NTN was not a vampire. Zinto was explicitly listed as a vampire, NTN was not. The death descriptions, going from memory did not allude to NTN as a vampire but did call out Zinto as one (you know how to deal with his kind, or something to that effect). No idea how the Servants may operate, but I think there is enough here to suggest two bad guy teams.

Interesting. I hadn't really thought in terms of there being two teams if there were that would radically change the way you'd need to look at the game. As they are both Red Death you'd have to think that they have a common goal but can't PM between the two teams and, potentially, don't know who the other team is. I did notice that one roles seemed geared to vampires (MInister) while another seems geared to werewolves (Sheriff). I think it's a possibility to bear in mind but I don't think it needs to be thought about too much at the moment. But if it's two teams then they would have to be pretty weak, probably two apiece.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox
Dubb 1 - thomkal
NTN 9 - grammaticus, Danny, Commo, bhlloy, mauboy. j23, RaidersArmy, CF, Autumn
Mauboy 4 - hoops, chief rum, Eaglefan, mckerney
J23 6 - zinto, sndvls, saldana, jackal, Lathum, dubb
Bhlloy 1 - ntndeacon
Lathum 1 - narc
crimson fox 1 - mrbug


this i think, but it isn't official. Only you can do that abe

Pulled this from Thomkal's post #584 (he quoted it there) but it shows that Zinto ended up away from NTN. Obviously a tiny sample set, but you can construe that the Servant's know of each other even if they are not both vampires.

Zinto also, if memory serves correctly, voted for Jackal on Day 2. Who is the only person who remains alive from the end-of-day runoff (Saldana + Lathum both dead Lightbringers). So add me to the list of people who have some trust for Jackal.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Figured I would pull up the dead bad guy descriptions together. My initial takeaway from this is that NTN was not a vampire. Zinto was explicitly listed as a vampire, NTN was not. The death descriptions, going from memory did not allude to NTN as a vampire but did call out Zinto as one (you know how to deal with his kind, or something to that effect). No idea how the Servants may operate, but I think there is enough here to suggest two bad guy teams.

Yup already brought this up

[Narcizo]

Wish I had time to do the vote tallies.Barring that

Day One

Dubb 1 - thomkal
NTN 9 - grammaticus, Danny, Commo, bhlloy, mauboy, j23, RaidersArmy, CF, Autumn
Mauboy 4 - hoops, chief rum, Eaglefan, mckerney
J23 6 - zinto, sndvls, saldana, jackal, Lathum, dubb
Bhlloy 1 - ntndeacon
Lathum 1 - narc
crimson fox 1 - mrbug

Day Two

saldana 8 - eaglefan (662) SnDvls (789) mauboy (851) crimsonfox (861) mckerney (874) chief rum (1054) Lathum (1080) jackal (1088)
mckerney 2 - narcizo (645) mrbug (758)
lathum 5 - dubb (660) raiders (794) thomkal (905) danny (1018) hoops (1083)
jackal 6 - autumn (843) commo (908) saldana (921) dzilla (991) j23 (993) zinto (1095)
autumn 1 - grammaticus (779)

Day Three

Thomkal 8 - EagleFan (1241) MrBug (1402) Zinto (1372) mauboy (1407) dzilla (1431) mckerney (1438) Raiders (1494) Chief Rum (1523)
EagleFan 1 - Narcizo (1271)
Zinto 11 - Commo_Soldier (1322) hoopsguy (1345) SnDvls (1351) dubb (1375) Grammaticus (1380) J23 (1401) Thomkal (1468) Danny (1472) Autumn (1478) CrimsonFox (1526) Jackal (1533)

[The Jackal]

If the lifegiver is in the game, Danny wouldn't be a bad resurrection. Just sayin'

[The Jackal]

Though it's not spelled out in the rules, I wonder if people that are resurrected retain the powers they had beforehand. In that case it would be wise to wait and do it with a seer or something. But for sheer impact Danny is at the top of the list right now.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'll tell you what Jackal, since you scanned me last game, we can pretend you were scanned this game. Since I was good, I'll assume you are good in this game.

Deal?

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Jackal's a good dude, stop piling on everyone

So this right here is pretty much why I moved off of Bug, he seemed to be hinting that he had scanned me. Now, I didn't want to point to it too heavily last night in case it would make him a kill target, but now that it looks very likely that there's gonna be a runaway on him, I think it's better to reveal early if you are in fact the seer. There's people in place that can protect you - and if you are a wolf, well, you can reveal and get countered on!

[Narcizo]

1. CrimsonFox - voted Zinto
2. The Jackal - Weak Zinto vote
4. Autumn - voted Zinto
8. MrBug708 -
9. J23 - voted Zinto
10. Narcizo - Me
11. Thomkal
14. dzilla77 - Claimed role
15. Raiders Army -
16. Chief Rum -
17. mckerney - Claimed role
18. EagleFan -
19. Commo Soldier - voted Zinto
20. mauboy1 -
21, SnDvls - voted Zinto
22. dubb93 - voted Zinto
23. hoopsguy - voted Zinto
24. Grammaticus - voted Zinto

So Bug, Thomkal, Jackal, Raiders, Chief, Eagle and mau are of interest to me today. Again I'm not saying that the Zinto voters can't be wolves but to make things easier for myself I'll not look at them today. Not a hugely different picture from yesterday, it has to be said. Interesting that many of the same names crop up (mine included, as others have noted). But they can't all be wolves, one would assume.

I guess that Bug is going to get a lot of votes because of the whole Danny thing so I don't see any point chasing him. I don't really think we want a runaway on him so we probably need to find another candidate or two.

Thomkal. The only real way I can see this being the case is if he had a conversion power that he had to use yesterday. Otherwise I'd have thought that he'd try to take the bullet for the leader.

Jackal. Voted by Zinto on day two at the close. If he was a wolf then Zinto showed a lot more nerve then I would have had. Leans me to him having been good at that stage.

Raiders. Take away his "forced" vote of NTN on day one and I don't think it looks too good for Mr Army. No worse that it does for me, admittedly, but I know I'm good. I think.

Chief. Voting looks pretty poor really (again, I know, throwing stones in glasshouses etc etc) Hasn't really contributed much because of illness. I can possibly see him being a day one conversion as well. He didn't vote NTN but Zinto might have thought that was too obvious. Was converted last game so maybe Zinto would think he wouldn't be considered this game.

Eagle. Don't see much difference from yesterday when I voted him really. The only thing in his favour today is that Zinto voted for him early yesterday. Zinto moved his vote later so I don't know how much can be read into that but for the now I think th.

Mau. Has a vote in the middle of the NTN voters which is a possibility for him but makes me think he isn't the best candidate. I'm not sure he would be Zinto's choice for conversion either.

[J23]

Originally Posted by J23

I was passed a Tincture of Camphor night one, which I had the option of opening during the night window. Having no idea what it did, I decided against it and passed it along. Any idea what that item might be?

BTW, I passed this last night, not night two as I posted. I figured w/ item passing being the last action, I didn't feel the need to reveal I still held it in case the wolves thought it an important item.

[Narcizo]

Going to

Vote Chief Rum

for the time being.

[J23]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So this right here is pretty much why I moved off of Bug, he seemed to be hinting that he had scanned me. Now, I didn't want to point to it too heavily last night in case it would make him a kill target, but now that it looks very likely that there's gonna be a runaway on him, I think it's better to reveal early if you are in fact the seer. There's people in place that can protect you - and if you are a wolf, well, you can reveal and get countered on!

I assumed as much as well, and it is why I moved my vote a little while after CF had brought it up in the thread. I also figured Danny and CF, and were using the post-lynch antics to try to make sure he wasn't the nightkill target last night.

[hoopsguy]

Interesting to see some kind of "don't lynch Bug" sentiment coming up. I was starting to get the feeling that he was a villager and Danny was an extra-good kill choice because it would set him up so convincingly. Plus Bug being more active posting last night felt to me like the "I'll show them they are wrong, and have the 'I TOLD YOU SO' post-lynch" Bug than the wolf in trouble Bug.

Bottom line, I'm happy that there is at least some contrarian thought to the runaway vote on him due to Danny's posts and subsequent death.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Why did you feel both were villagers. Not feeling great about you know, while you voted both NTN and Zinto, seems like you had no real reason at all for voting either.

Catching up, but this was addressed to me. Thomkal I felt was playing a stronger more active role than usual. It made me think he might have been a roled villager - a lot fo times when people get an important role they suddenly get into the game more than usual.

Zinto, it just seemed people were voting because he was among the under the radar candidates. That didn't strike me as great reasoning giving all the info we were working with. I honestly thought there were probably much better votes. I missed whatever it was that people saw about him, or we just got lucky. In my favor though, I stated well before deadline that I would pick him over Thomkal, which I wouldn't have boxed myself in that way in such a close vote if I was a wolf (or I would have done like CF, said it and then try not to do it ;-) )

[Narcizo]

Agree with Jackal that Bug probably wants to reveal at this stage if he's the seer. Sheriff can protect the same person every day so he should be safe until the Sheriff buys it.

[Autumn]

I don't think we should necessarily assume all roles are in the game. Yes, we have a lot of players, but there's also the possibility of multiple roles. Maybe we got two ministers and no sherrif. Let's not base our play on anyone in particular being there.

I am also cautious about going after Bug. Killing danny is an obvious way to frame Bug. The question is were the wolves playing first level or second level, knowing taht seeming to frame Bug might make people not vote Bug. If Bug is not a bad guy (or not known to the other bad guys maybe) they might have killed Danny to make it an obvious vote and a wasted day.

I think looking at Thomkal voters is the best place to go. The vote was close enough that until the very end, wolves weren't going to move off of Thomkal. It was back and forth enough that I would think an earlier Zinto voter would jump onto J23 or Thomkal or Bug at some point. So while I'm still keeping an eye on CF, I think in general, the Thomkal voters are the place to vote today.

[Autumn]

oh and narc you don't have Zinto colored in his Thomkal vote.

[Autumn]

I was feeling funky about Mauboy last night, so would probably go there, barring time to do a real post analysis. But I don't want to spread things too thin and make it easy for the wolves. For now I trust Thomkal and so will follow him to keep things consolidated. If I get a chance later I will look at things more in-depth and maybe move this.

vote raider's army

[mauchow]

I know dzilla shouldn't be a candidate today (maybe maybe not) but I gotta think if he can be converted we should give him a look too.

[MrBug708]

Checking in this morning!

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I know dzilla shouldn't be a candidate today (maybe maybe not) but I gotta think if he can be converted we should give him a look too.

Oh yes, I forgot he had revealed. And mckerney as well. That does limit the choices more, barring conversion.

I would like at some point to look back at night kills and see if we can guess who was responsible for them. I would guess that the bad guys have to cycle through players for kills, or at least choose amongst themselves. If Vlad was converting he could not be killing at the same time.

[MrBug708]

Since it's pretty well accepted that there are two different parties of wolves, what is the action? Can they alternate kills? Conversions? Anything else? I would imagine we would have see a double night kill if they could do two kills at night.

[The Jackal]

In terms of speculation, I would guess that they alternate kills and perhaps each team has one conversion to use or something along those lines.

[MrBug708]

I would think that a kill and a conversion, with two initial baddies on either side, would make the game end much quicker. No chance of either a kill or convert during your turn?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I don't think he was the "overall" leader just the leader of the vamps clan that is working with the wolves and other bad guys

That was the flat out leader last time. There were no split clans, just different monsters within the Red Death. I think you are barking up the wrong tree with split clans.

[dubb93]

I'm not caught up but where I'm at it looks like im voting Mr. Bug but not necessarily for the reason Danny is. I also think CF has been converted. I feel very strongly about that.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Wish I had time to do the vote tallies.Barring that

Day One

Dubb 1 - thomkal
NTN 9 - grammaticus, Danny, Commo, bhlloy, mauboy, j23, RaidersArmy, CF, Autumn
Mauboy 4 - hoops, chief rum, Eaglefan, mckerney
J23 6 - zinto, sndvls, saldana, jackal, Lathum, dubb
Bhlloy 1 - ntndeacon
Lathum 1 - narc
crimson fox 1 - mrbug

Day Two

saldana 8 - eaglefan (662) SnDvls (789) mauboy (851) crimsonfox (861) mckerney (874) chief rum (1054) Lathum (1080) jackal (1088)
mckerney 2 - narcizo (645) mrbug (758)
lathum 5 - dubb (660) raiders (794) thomkal (905) danny (1018) hoops (1083)
jackal 6 - autumn (843) commo (908) saldana (921) dzilla (991) j23 (993) zinto (1095)
autumn 1 - grammaticus (779)

Day Three

Thomkal 8 - EagleFan (1241) MrBug (1402) Zinto (1372) mauboy (1407) dzilla (1431) mckerney (1438) Raiders (1494) Chief Rum (1523)
EagleFan 1 - Narcizo (1271)
Zinto 11 - Commo_Soldier (1322) hoopsguy (1345) SnDvls (1351) dubb (1375) Grammaticus (1380) J23 (1401) Thomkal (1468) Danny (1472) Autumn (1478) CrimsonFox (1526) Jackal (1533)

I moved from Autumn to Lathum on day two.

[dubb93]

I can't stress this enough. I don't think there are multiethnic wolf teams. Just major/lesser wolves within the one team. I also think we have eliminated most of the major wolves at this point which means what is left is going to be fairly restricted in what they can do.

[dubb93]

Well multiethnic wolf teams works too. Got to love autocorrect.

[MrBug708]

multi-specied

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Incidentally I think it's clear that both Zinto and NTN were original wolves. It seems to me that we now have to start thinking in terms of players who have been converted. I would guess that there is only one starting wolf left in the game. I'm guessing Zinto converted someone night one and there may have been another conversion/going to be a conversion. If Mesmerise = conversion (which seems pretty likely to me) then we want someone who looked like a good choice on day one but hasn't wreathed themselves in glory since then.

I agree, to me RA was possibly the convert, but if I look closely I'm sure there are one or two other people possibly.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

As the day concludes, you meet by the shores of the famous Mississippi. After some discussion, you narrow the candidates down to two major ones, and despite the push and pull, ultimately you decide to select ntndeacon.

The Sacred Flame is ignited as a column brightly against the twilight sky. Prismatic flares seem to kiss the sky as the multivaried flames crackle with an odd spectral pop. You get the feeling that it is not quite there. Like most of it has manifested. But not all of it, as the spiritual part of the Sacred Flame keeps itself hidden away much like man's soul.

At first, ntndeacon is reluctant to move into the Flame, but the hypnotic swaying of the flame is too much and he moves into it. The Holy Fire envelops his body, baring forth his spirit. His body is destroyed, but with his spirit laid bare, you can tell, just before he departs this plane, that he was, in fact, a Servant of the Red Death!

You check his things and confiscate a Charm of Protection Against Detection as evidence. He appears to have been The Unhallowed, a Servant with some special abilities.

Congratulations are in order, and you celebrate your victory with drink and song, but it is hollow. You know that there must be more Servants than this.


Day One Has Ended. Night One Actions must be submitted by TWO AM EST.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Choosing someone to die. Think about that. Ponder the implications. How do you choose someone to die? How do you choose a comrade, an acquaintance, a friend, a lover, a warrior? How do any of us have the right to kill another? Even if the source of death is the Cleansing Flame?

Today has brought many old questions to the surface. Surely, there has got to be a better way. Surely, someone, somewhere, has come up with a better plan. This cannot be the only path before you.

And yet, today, this is the option you have. One of you must step into the Flame. One of you must likely perish. That is the current way of things. Perhaps, some day, when the Red Death’s dominion over Earth is broken, perhaps then people will look at justice as something else entirely. But you don’t have that luxury. You are the people of your time.

Casting lots has determined that Zinto is to be tossed into the Flame. He steps up to walk in himself, under his own power. Then, suddenly, he begins to run, and you see him start to turn into a bat. But it is all to nothing, because the group of you know his type, and within seconds you’ve grabbed him and thrown him into the Cleansing Flame. You know what will happen next. His vampiric soul is borne to all, and you have confirmation that Zinto was a vampire. His once human nature was already gone.

It is days like today that remind you that you are on the right path. Never forget this victory. No matter what darkness you encounter and no matter what fear you feel, always embrace this moment. For it was the moment that you took down the leader of the Servants of the Red Death.



Day Three has ended. Night Three ends at 2:00 am

Unless we were not told his items the Charm of Protection Against Detection is probably with another wolf right now, so if someone has been scanned clear and they are a possibility they might want to be scanned again.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Mangled bits of flesh float in the river near the corpse, and the river is red all around. One of you flips the body and you can just barely make out that it was bhlloy. Most of you turn and throw up.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

T
And it brings with it more than lies. Tonight, it brings death. Within an hour of moonfall, you hear the scream again. Jetting out you find yourself at the junction of two roads. There lies a corpse, brutally eaten. It appears that giant bites were taken out of him. Leaving behind only a face for identification and legs, the rest of Lathum is gone. Beside his body you see the evidence of his profession as a Minister.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

You move towards the scream, and find the room of the Abjurer. You move in,, and find that he successfully cast a spell on himself to protect from any corruption. Unfortunately, whatever came through that door wasn't interested in corruption. His body was rent into three pieces, with various bits consumed.

Looks like pretty similar kills to me. Nothing suggesting a vampire in any of them. Unless it's the crazy psycho vampires of Baldur's Gate II. Got to say that I kind of agree with Dubb here unless one team can convert and the other can kill or something.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Looks like pretty similar kills to me. Nothing suggesting a vampire in any of them. Unless it's the crazy psycho vampires of Baldur's Gate II. Got to say that I kind of agree with Dubb here unless one team can convert and the other can kill or something.

Yes, this sounds more like werewolf/beasts than vampires. Maybe Zinto tried converting every night and the other guys were killing. Or maybe the sherriff has acutally gotten some blocks to prevent multiple kills. Or maybe there's one team and they've been using a werewolf to kill and Zinto to convert.

[J23]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So this right here is pretty much why I moved off of Bug, he seemed to be hinting that he had scanned me. Now, I didn't want to point to it too heavily last night in case it would make him a kill target, but now that it looks very likely that there's gonna be a runaway on him, I think it's better to reveal early if you are in fact the seer. There's people in place that can protect you - and if you are a wolf, well, you can reveal and get countered on!

Bug, I've seen you in the thread today. Care to share anything about this?

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Though it's not spelled out in the rules, I wonder if people that are resurrected retain the powers they had beforehand. In that case it would be wise to wait and do it with a seer or something. But for sheer impact Danny is at the top of the list right now.

This was my concern, maybe we wait another night possibly two and see if there is a more important role we want to revive. While I can see them losing their powers, I would think there is still a good shot they keep them since they were not converted.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by J23

Bug, I've seen you in the thread today. Care to share anything about this?

Can't a guy just randomly trust another participant in a game of werewolf?

[Commo_Soldier]

Well, I'm off, should be back on my computer between 2-4 hours before deadline through the deadline.

[Commo_Soldier]

Dola, as usual, will be looking from phone if it starts to become a run-away, which I too do not want, I will find a new person to move to from work.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Since it's pretty well accepted that there are two different parties of wolves, what is the action? Can they alternate kills? Conversions? Anything else? I would imagine we would have see a double night kill if they could do two kills at night.

my thoughts: they are working together but can't PM (or only leaders can PM) and can do either a kill or conversion/corruption per group per night. I'd guess we have 1 lonely wolf now without PM rights and two lower vamps. both converts.

[Chief Rum]

dubb and Narc have alreayd said it, but I'll bang that drum, too. I find it extremely unlikely we have two wolf teams. And if there are two wolf teams, they absolutely have some interaction with each other.

We have had only one kill each night, not multiples. And we know the wolves have both kill and corruption abilities. If each side has that, as noted, that would rather quickly become unbalancing. If it's use one or the other each night, why wouldn't we have seen multiple kills or even no kills on a given night, regardless of the interaction of the BG role(s). That's why I say if there are two wolf teams, they can communicate and coordinate their actions.

But Occam's Razor says that's all bullshit, and we have one wolf team.

[J23]

I think we're focusing way too much on whether there is one or two+ wolf teams in general. Let's worry about that once we string up a wolf that has a description which clearly states that it has limits on their communication.

[The Jackal]

All we are basing any of this speculation on is that Abe said all wolves may or may not be able to PM with each other. Which suggests there is the option for a lone wolf role, at the least. But if that role is even in the game, we don't know if they know who the other wolves are, or if the wolves know who they are but can't PM .. it's all speculation. I don't think it needs to focus in to any voting reasoning at this point.