Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Flasch186]

Creative control and a leadership that is wrestler first

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Every company has been willing to give Phil anything and everything he's wanted for a return for 7 years, and he never came back. What's changed between now and 3 months ago? 3 years ago?

Maybe his post-WWE career wasn't as lucrative as he expected after the two UFC paydays.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

leadership that is wrestler first

You mean non-existent.

[RainMaker]

Good for Matt Cardona getting some nuclear heat at GCW. The subtle trolling for weeks was great.

[SirFozzie]

WWE cut Wyatt.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

WWE cut Wyatt.

Most of their release -- heck maybe even this one -- I understand their reasoning one way or another.

That said, they REALLY ought to get Personnel, Human Resources, Booking, and Promotion all on the same page.

This is not the first time recently where one department has been promoting an upcoming appearance, another has been writing material for them, and suddenly HR gives them walking papers.

[dubb93]

I don't really watch AEW....but there is a real chance here for them to bring in some mainstream talents. There are lessons to be learned from the past but with WWE making all these cuts to major performers they really have a foot in the door here.

[dubb93]

I mean imagine if Lesnar, Wyatt, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and Stroman all showed up within say the same month. They have all been linked one way or the other to the company. IDK what that would do to the product but it would do a hell of a lot for the mainstream wrestling appearance. Those are all guys that have headlined in WWE. This will make for an amazing TEW mod one day.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I mean imagine if Lesnar, Wyatt, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and Stroman all showed up within say the same month.

They'd be used just as poorly as the talent already on the payroll, so what's the difference?

Until they get adult leadership that has the slightest clue about booking or presentation, it'll be the largely unwatchable dreck it already is.

[Toddzilla]

This is a little different it seems.

First, the WWE and Wyatt "came to terms on his release." He wasn't just shitcanned, there was something coming from Wyatt's side.

Everything I've read mentions Wyatt is still having a very very hard time coping with Brodie Lee's death, so if this is Wyatt asking for a clean break to get himself to a better place, then good on both parties for making that happen.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

They'd be used just as poorly as the talent already on the payroll, so what's the difference?

Until they get adult leadership that has the slightest clue about booking or presentation, it'll be the largely unwatchable dreck it already is.

Are you talking about AEW booking poorly? I've been watching and I don't see that at all. They actually respect wrestling, and have created a bunch of stars. Then I watched Smackdown for about 10 minutes this week, and it was like they were trying to murder me, it was so painful to watch. Wrestling by people who hate wrestling.

[SirFozzie]

If I had to guess, it's because the style of "wrestling" that AEW puts on is definitely NOT to Jon's tastes. Not only that, the whole setup with the talent running the show (or as he'd likely put it, "the fucking lunatics running the asylum") is counter to his viewpoint.

I will admit I wonder what Bill Watts, Verne Gagne and crew would think of both wrestling companies today..

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

This is a little different it seems.

First, the WWE and Wyatt "came to terms on his release." He wasn't just shitcanned, there was something coming from Wyatt's side.

Everything I've read mentions Wyatt is still having a very very hard time coping with Brodie Lee's death, so if this is Wyatt asking for a clean break to get himself to a better place, then good on both parties for making that happen.

There was definitely something going on with him, we don't really know what happened. There were reports a few weeks ago that he was still being held off TV but it "wasn't for creative reasons" or something. And there are reports now that he was told he was cut for budget reasons. He's only wrestled one match this year.

If I had to guess, based on some of the cuts they've made recently, they are in full worker-cost reduction mode and didn't want to pay him anymore for not being there. Stroman had value, AND they were using him, but, he made 7 figures so he was expendable. Another guy who is making 7 figures who isn't working for whatever reason is even more expendable. (I know they make more when they work but both of those guys surely had big downside guarantees).

I also still wonder if they're still gearing up for a sale. Or if they're daring AEW to sign every wrestler in history (except Stroman) to see what their breaking point is to where they actually have to cut someone someday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Are you talking about AEW booking poorly? I've been watching and I don't see that at all. They actually respect wrestling, and have created a bunch of stars. Then I watched Smackdown for about 10 minutes this week, and it was like they were trying to murder me, it was so painful to watch. Wrestling by people who hate wrestling.

Respect wrestling? Bwahahahaha. They're the literal opposite of that, a certain crash pad incident sank that theory forevermore.

For as little else as we agree on, I'm about 80% in the Jim Cornette camp on that one. This is mostly a money mark being taken advantage of by the Little Rascals who decided "if we can find a sucker, we can do "hey kids, let's put on a show" regularly".

-- the booking is frequently nonsensical
-- the in-ring product is a mixed bag
-- the production work is atrocious
-- the announcing is quite possibly the worst on the planet today, literally painful to endure. It's certainly the worst with a TV deal, and by a wide margin.
-- a women's division that is saved from being the worst in the biz only by the existence of ROH
-- the retirement home aspect of the roster, instead of catering I suspect they just use Meals On Wheels

I could go on and on, it's not particularly difficult.

I'm happy that Pillman, Jr gets a bigger spotlight, ditto his tag partner.

MJF is the best mic worker in the U.S. today not named Heyman., it's not really even close. His ability to think on the fly (not seen as much on TV as just random stuff he does) is in the stratosphere

An audience for it exists, I'm just decidedly not part of it. I hope it eventually crashes and burns spectacularly, as it exists only to the detriment of most of what I enjoy about the sport in general.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Respect wrestling? Bwahahahaha. They're the literal opposite of that, a certain crash pad incident sank that theory forevermore.

For as little else as we agree on, I'm about 80% in the Jim Cornette camp on that one. This is mostly a money mark being taken advantage of by the Little Rascals who decided "if we can find a sucker, we can do "hey kids, let's put on a show" regularly".

-- the booking is frequently nonsensical
-- the in-ring product is a mixed bag
-- the production work is atrocious
-- the announcing is quite possibly the worst on the planet today, literally painful to endure. It's certainly the worst with a TV deal, and by a wide margin.
-- a women's division that is saved from being the worst in the biz only by the existence of ROH
-- the retirement home aspect of the roster, instead of catering I suspect they just use Meals On Wheels

I could go on and on, it's not particularly difficult.

I'm happy that Pillman, Jr gets a bigger spotlight, ditto his tag partner.

MJF is the best mic worker in the U.S. today not named Heyman., it's not really even close. His ability to think on the fly (not seen as much on TV as just random stuff he does) is in the stratosphere

An audience for it exists, I'm just decidedly not part of it. I hope it eventually crashes and burns spectacularly, as it exists only to the detriment of most of what I enjoy about the sport in general.

Ladies and gentlemen, that right there is called an irrational grudge. Not much fact to go on, but whatever, ymmv.

[RainMaker]

I don't know, I've got some gripes with AEW too.

- JR is real bad. He's the best to ever do it but he's 70 years old now. Not his fault but he struggles to keep up and doesn't have that energy he did in the 90's. I am pleasantly surprised by Schiavone, but the two of them are not a great mix.

- Feels like most of the roster is just a comedy gimmick. Like I get there are spots on the card for that stuff, but does everyone need to be a goofy character who gives a wink to the smarks?

- Too many stables. WWE always has too few but everyone in AEW is in a stable now. Most aren't interesting.

- Stop with the old WWE guys. I'm all for Punk and Bryan because they'll actually drive numbers, but does anyone give a shit about Big Show and Mark Henry? You can argue someone like Christian is there to put guys over because he's such a great worker. But I don't need to see Dustin or Billy Gunn wrestle ever again. It has TNA vibes where they just jump on every wrestler who WWE drops.

- As Jon said, production values suck. If you want to steal some talent away from WWE, go after some production folks (well not Kevin Dunn). Get some better themes too.

There is an audience for it and they do some interesting stuff from time to time. But I was hoping more for something like NJPW with an American flair to it. This feels more like them desperately trying to be WWE.

[molson]

I've only watched some YouTube clips of AEW, I just find it tough to commit to any new TV show and keep up as it goes. But the two things that stand out about it, fair or unfair, is that it feels like I have to have years of independent wrestling promotion knowledge to know what's going on, and that everyone is in giant stables because they have to sign almost every big free agent but never cut anyone.

But someday if I can ever catchup on my life and get more free time, I'd love to watch some of the older big shows and give it a fairer chance. I'm kind of curious with how they deal with the eternal criticism directed at WWE programming that everybody should have "something to do" at all times, and basically everybody should be pushed as important, especially if they add 10 more WWE guys this year. Every new signing it's like, "well, NOW they'll be used properly", and I wonder how they can keep that up for 30+ guys or whatever at the same time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jody Hamilton, best known as "The Masked Assassin" passed away today at 82.

3+ decades in the ring, 2+ decades teaching a new generation as a trainer and indy promotion owner.

His death was announced by his son, well known former referee Nick Patrick.

He was one of the first guys I can remember hearing wrestlers talk about as being a good teacher, particular with teaching them basic psychology.

Rest in peace.

[SirFozzie]

Damn, I've read his book about 50 times

[SirFozzie]

Dola: Rest in Peace, "Beautiful" Bobby Eaton

Been a bad week

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Dola: Rest in Peace, "Beautiful" Bobby Eaton

Been a bad week

Just damn

You won't find many from that era who have more people consistently saying what a great person he was.

An oft told story involves Bill Dundee's daughter admitting to him that she was dating a wrestler. As the little Aussie went into a full-blown parental tirade threatening the life of whoever had dared, he finally got the name from her. He stopped and said "well, you picked the right one" and the rant ended.

Rest in peace Beautiful Bobby.

[Carman Bulldog]

Arguably the greatest tag team wrestler of all-time.

As an aside, Oliver Lee Bateman at The Ringer has, for my money, taken over as the preeminent wrestling obituarist (perhaps at least until Meltzer publishes a Tributes 3...). Hopefully we'll get a retrospective on Eaton at some point soon.

[Carman Bulldog]

DOLA: And today also happened to be Stan Lane's birthday.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Arguably the greatest tag team wrestler of all-time.

As an aside, Oliver Lee Bateman at The Ringer has, for my money, taken over as the preeminent wrestling obituarist (perhaps at least until Meltzer publishes a Tributes 3...). Hopefully we'll get a retrospective on Eaton at some point soon.

He does write some excellent stuff!

Oliver used to be in an e-wrestling federation that I ran back in the late 90's. He actually "killed off" Eddy Jacks, his most well-known e-wrestling character recently.

How Wrestler Eddy “Flap� Jacks Met His Match | www.splicetoday.com

I miss e-wrestling!

[SirFozzie]

So, the WWE forever purge continues, with NXT getting broomed out. Was surprised that they announced Fish's release right before a reported high-level meeting between Vince and Adam Cole.

(and apparently, Dunne had the same "Wait, your contract's about to expire? I thought we had another year.... shit, you're right!", except they actually saw it before it expired (unlike Cole).

They really need to get their HR/contract department working.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If the dirt sheets are to be believed this year's G1 Climax will be missing a few faces. Jay White, Juice Robinson, and David Finlay are all booked for the NJPW Strong tour of the U.S. less than ten days before G1 Climax begins back in Japan, meaning they're out due to quarantine.

If the reports are to be believed, that's basically by design/choice, as they were mentioned among the gaijin being most unwilling to return to Japan until quarantine rules were lifted.

White would be a huge loss to the tournament IMO. Robinson to some degree simply because his slot would likely be filled with someone less useful. It guess it also creates some doubt about whether Ospreay will be back in time for G1.

[RainMaker]

I don't really understand AEW's fascination with Impact but Christian can still go. That was a really great match with Omega.

[Toddzilla]

What is "WHOOO!" in Spanish?

[miami_fan]

WWE and The Ringer launch exclusive audio network | WWE

The Ringer, a Spotify Studio, and WWE will launch an exclusive audio network as part of a multi-year audio content partnership, the companies announced today. As part of the deal, The Ringer and WWE will also collaborate to develop new, original audio content exclusively for the Spotify platform and Ringer website. In addition, existing WWE audio programming, which offers a unique look at the world of WWE both in the ring and beyond, will become available exclusively on Spotify.

[RainMaker]

How does AEW book Friday with that crowd?

[Toddzilla]

Tease, tease, tease. Someone needs to tape their wrists, someone else needs to use the anaconda vice, someone teases the GTS. Keep teasing until the last 10 minutes.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Tease, tease, tease. Someone needs to tape their wrists, someone else needs to use the anaconda vice, someone teases the GTS. Keep teasing until the last 10 minutes.

That would make great TV but the entire night you'll be getting CM Punk chants. It'll just be interesting to see how they get the pop right without messing up the show for everyone else. Then again, it's only an hour long show.

I am guessing that CM Punk is signed and will be appearing because I think we may have a riot if he doesn't show on Friday.

[RainMaker]

I've also seen criticism of them not promoting him being there. Arguing it would help the rating. But I kind of think the way they are doing it so far is perfect. Enough people know to tune in, the crowd will be insanely hot, and they'll likely pull an enormous number next Wednesday where it counts more.

I haven't been a huge AEW fan, but if they get Punk and Danielson, they have to start threatening Raw numbers a bit during football season, right? WWE is still way too entrenched in other stuff, but the right money mark can buy some eyeballs on TV.

[Flasch186]

They have punk come out to start the show and get interrupted by someone to start his feud right out of the gates

[RainMaker]

There is a part of me who doesn't want him to show on Friday just to see the reaction.

[molson]

I'm going to predict 25-minute self-aware pipebomb promo that breaks the fourth wall and makes lots of insider references.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm going to predict 25-minute self-aware pipebomb promo that breaks the fourth wall and makes lots of insider references.

I don't think they'll do it on Friday. I think it'll be something but they'll save the big speech for Dynamite where they can promote it and pop a huge rating. They'll be in the Chicago area for like the next 2 weeks.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That would make great TV but the entire night you'll be getting CM Punk chants.

Every wrestling show for the past 7 years has been getting CM Punk chants.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is a part of me who doesn't want him to show on Friday just to see the reaction.

If CM Punk isn't there in the house on Friday, AEW is DEAD. They would kill their audience dead on the spot an be out-of-business in 6-months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

If CM Punk isn't there in the house on Friday, AEW is DEAD. They would kill their audience dead on the spot an be out-of-business in 6-months.

Nah. The most sycophantic fan base in history would find a way to make it Punk's fault.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

They have punk come out to start the show and get interrupted by someone to start his feud right out of the gates

Since MJF is/should be done with Jericho (And I believe Jericho will be touring with Fozzy) have MJF come out, cut a promo as the show is going off the air about being gods gift to wrestling, legend killer, etc. Then have Punk appear on the entrance ramp, shocked look on the face of MJF, Punk stares him down, credits roll, crowd goes nuts.

[Carman Bulldog]

That was a pop.

[RainMaker]

Moxley looks like he aged 20 years when he shaved his head.

[RainMaker]

Also not helping that he let himself go a bit too.

[SirFozzie]

Perfect.

Abso-fucking-lutely perfect.

VKM's like "THAT"S NOT HOW YOU SUPPOSED TO DO IT! YER SUPPOSED TO TEASE PEOPLE FOR 59:45 OF THE HOUR! YOU DON'T GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! AND YOU DON'T PUT NEW GUYS IN THE MAIN EVENT! YOU HAVE TO BREAK THEIR MORALE FIRST AS A WRESTLING PLUMBER!"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Edgy prediction: CM Punk will not be part of the active roster of any promotion by 8/20/23.

(i.e. two years from today)

[SirFozzie]

Oh, the Super Canadian Destroyer (Ultra Canadian Destroyer?)

Got a FACK from me. Combination ACK and FUCK!

[BYU 14]

That was definitely as hard as I can ever remember a crowd popping

[Toddzilla]

WTF. WWE had to hotshot the title onto Lynch because Sasha aint there, and they completely bury Belair in the process.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

WTF. WWE had to hotshot the title onto Lynch because Sasha aint there, and they completely bury Belair in the process.

I've never understood the Lynch train honestly (she's fine, just never understood the way she got over) but tonight, by God, I was a fan.

The outcome of the other match was relatively satisfying (wrong one went over) for me as well.

The goofiest looking member of the roster and the goofiest gimmick on the roster losing on the same night? That's good shit.