The Official 2020-2021 NBA Season Thread

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I think Cuban called that something total bullshit.

It's funny The Athletic did that article on the mess the Dallas front office is and Cuban called it bullshit and then 2 days later seemed to confirm the central argument of the article by firing Nelson.

[miami_fan]

WOJ BOMB!

Celtics send Kemba, the #16 pick this year and a 2025 2nd to OKC. The return is Al Horford, Moses Brown and a 2023 2nd rounder.

[Atocep]

At what point does the NBA just name the draft after Sam Presti?

[molson]

I rarely watch the games, and his traditional numbers look pretty much the same, but Kemba must be completely washed up.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

I rarely watch the games, and his traditional numbers look pretty much the same, but Kemba must be completely washed up.

He's not John Wall level washed up, but he was banged up and a terrible fit in Boston. Presti will flip him for another first in a year or 2.

[miami_fan]

How do you draw up an out of bounds play that requires Brook Lopez to catch the ball running to the corner of of the court?

[miami_fan]

The most successful season in Atlanta Hawks history!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The most successful season in Atlanta Hawks history!

Not yet.

[GrantDawg]

LOL...

dont huerter like that pic.twitter.com/SOP5zpVZxJ

— blackdragonroll (@blackdragonroll) June 21, 2021

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Not yet.

I have an irrational dislike for Mike Budenholzer so I am not objective with anything that involves him.

[Atocep]

I'm not sure how the Sixers bring Ben Simmons back next year after that series.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

LOL...

dont huerter like that pic.twitter.com/SOP5zpVZxJ

— blackdragonroll (@blackdragonroll) June 21, 2021

Ok, I laughed.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm not sure how the Sixers bring Ben Simmons back next year after that series.

Simmons needs to play on a team that doesn't have a big who's most effective on the deep post and has scorers. He's like a modern Rodman: great on defense, seriously challenged on offense. Moving him to SF to play a point forward role makes a great deal of sense.

Denver, Chicago, and Washington if Westbrook leaves could all work.

[miami_fan]

Do the Sixers have a choice but to keep Simmons? Are they leaning on Embiid who is still brittle and Tobias Harris who is well Tobias Harris if Simmons goes? What else are they giving up in order to convince another team to take on a supposed liability in the eyes of the Sixers?

I think we have to remember that Simmons is only in his 4th season and will only be 25 next month. I was shocked at how similar some of the per 36 numbers are when you compare Simmons to Giannis over their first four seasons.

Yes, Simmons has to develop an outside shot. I am not even talking about a three pointer at this point either. He should be able to develop a 12 to 15 foot jumper to compliment him driving to the basket over and over and over. Embiid still wants to hang out by the three point line about a quarter of the time so the opportunities for an open lane will be there. The drives to the basket should be his priority. Well that and free throws.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Do the Sixers have a choice but to keep Simmons?

Do they have any further ceiling if they do?

I don't know the cap ins & outs but right now it feels pretty legitimate to question whether they can win in the post-season if he's their 2nd best player.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Do they have any further ceiling if they do?

I don't know the cap ins & outs but right now it feels pretty legitimate to question whether they can win in the post-season if he's their 2nd best player.

Whether they can win with him as their 2nd best player is a legitimate question. I think they showed what they believed last year when they signed him to a 5 year / $177,243,360 contract including $177,243,360 guaranteed. Between Simmons, Embiid and Harris, they are already over the cap for next season.

Now to be fair, I saw John Wall get traded so that is a reminder that sucker is indeed born every minute. I just wonder whether the return will also cover the defense deficiencies that will be created if he leaves.

Side note: What is it with Sixer guards not wanting to shoot? I am not trying to be funny or insensitive. It is rare to find an NBA player who actively refuses to shoot. The Sixers drafted two #1 in back to back years. That is like replacing Steve Sax with Chuck Knoblauch.

[Atocep]

There's going to be overreaction to the Atlanta series, but just looking at that series, it wouldn't take much of a return to improve over what he showed. I think I saw he took 3 total shots in the 4th quarter of this series? The Sixers offense had him standing at the elbow and floating around to spots to hide him on offense. I'm not sure I've ever seen a player getting paid to be a superstar so afraid to be put in a position to take a shot.

The biggest concern with Simmons is he's shown absolutely zero interest in improving his shooting. In interviews he's mentioned he takes pride in not needing an outside shot to be effective in today's game. His extension was signed before Morey came on board as well so I'm not sure the current Sixers decision makers have the same faith in him that was there when the extension was signed.

I saw a Simmons for Lavine trade idea floated around and that's probably the only deal out there that helps both teams. The Sixers would get someone that fits better with Embiid and the Bulls get someone under team control for longer and may be a better fit with Vucevic and Markkanen.

[bhlloy]

The most worrying thing about Simmons is how his shooting and willingness to shoot has gone backwards since he's been in the league. You wonder if a team who is willing to put shooting at every other position on the floor might take a shot at him, but Philly is never getting close to that value back (just like they didn't for Fultz)

Trust the process indeed.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There's going to be overreaction to the Atlanta series, but just looking at that series, it wouldn't take much of a return to improve over what he showed. I think I saw he took 3 total shots in the 4th quarter of this series? The Sixers offense had him standing at the elbow and floating around to spots to hide him on offense. I'm not sure I've ever seen a player getting paid to be a superstar so afraid to be put in a position to take a shot.

The biggest concern with Simmons is he's shown absolutely zero interest in improving his shooting. In interviews he's mentioned he takes pride in not needing an outside shot to be effective in today's game. His extension was signed before Morey came on board as well so I'm not sure the current Sixers decision makers have the same faith in him that was there when the extension was signed.

I saw a Simmons for Lavine trade idea floated around and that's probably the only deal out there that helps both teams. The Sixers would get someone that fits better with Embiid and the Bulls get someone under team control for longer and may be a better fit with Vucevic and Markkanen.

With GarPax not in control, I don't think that trade happens, and I hope it doesn't. I'm not the biggest fan of Lavine as the #1, but I'd rather have him than Simmons. Now if you're saying ship out Markkanen for Simmons, I'm listening.

[BishopMVP]

Yikes, we've reached the "Zach Lavine > Ben Simmons" phase? Simmons deserves all the shit he is getting but I would take him in a heartbeat over Lavine & I think he can be a top 2 player on a great team provided the other player doesn't need to play in the low post on offense too.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Yikes, we've reached the "Zach Lavine > Ben Simmons" phase? Simmons deserves all the shit he is getting but I would take him in a heartbeat over Lavine & I think he can be a top 2 player on a great team provided the other player doesn't need to play in the low post on offense too.

Yes, and here's my reasoning:

At the beginning of the season, I thought Lavine was not the right person to lead the Bulls. He needed to start stepping up to that next level. With Donovan, he started to do that this past season. Now, I don't think he should be the #1 option, but he's done a decent job of it and I think Donovan can continue to help develop him into a potent all around player. However, I don't think he'll be more than average at defense.

Simmons has not progressed much shooting-wise over the past 4 seasons. He plays like the same player he was in high school and college, trying to beat people with his athleticism. I'm sure he's worked on his shot, but it hasn't come along. Maybe it clicks in the next few seasons. Maybe he's not wired to score and will always defer. He's great on defense and has the potential to turn into a Kawhi Leonard-esque player: a very tough defender with a solid mid range game. If he became that, I would take him over Lavine, no questions.

Right now, based on the last couple of years and their contracts, I would rather take the more dynamic scorer than the defensive star who I can't have on the floor at the end of important games. When that dynamic shifts, I would reconsider. But right now, I don't see the advantage of Simmons over Lavine for the Bulls.

P.S. I thought the Sixers should've traded Simmons or Embiid before the season. Their styles clash too much. And I thought it was tossup as to which one they should trade. If he stays healthy and you want to commit to a running your offense through the post, Embiid is a great choice. If you want to run a more dynamic offense, then Simmons makes sense.

Maybe the Sizers can run a modern variation of the triangle offense (I would take credit for that, but a friend mentioned it a few days ago.)

[ISiddiqui]

Speaking of dynamic shooters, what a Game 1 for Trae Young! Unfortunately with Bogi hurting, it seems like Trae is going to have to be Superman for the Hawks to win this series.

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[Vince, Pt. II]

Trae has been incredible. Between this run and the Luka sideshow (apparently he doesn't get along with anyone?), really makes the Trae-Luka trade interesting in hindsight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Trae has been incredible. Between this run and the Luka sideshow (apparently he doesn't get along with anyone?), really makes the Trae-Luka trade interesting in hindsight.

I'd take a complete player 100 times out of 100.

Young is on a run, no doubt about it but he's still a black hole 50% of the time.

[miami_fan]

The desire to turn Luka into Lebron while turning Trae and Deandre Ayton into a couple of Darkos was always going to make the top of that draft interesting from an evaluation standpoint. I would have chosen Luka but I don't think the gap between Luka and Trae is that significant when it comes to building a potential championship team around them. It is funny that the current Luka sideshow comes after the Trae sideshow from late last year/early this year. Remember how much Trae's teammates reportedly hated him? Once again, I don't want to leave Ayton out of this conversation either. The growth he has shown as a player is amazing as well.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, I think knowing what we know I still take Luka now, but it's a lot closer than I would have thought it would ever get two years ago.

[ISiddiqui]

NBA reporting is always trying to create drama. I don't think most of those beefs are actually happening. Supposedly Collins and Trae were at each other's throats but look at how they have playing so well together this year?

I think Trae was the perfect pick for Atlanta. Schlenk had a plan and Trae fit it better (and imagine if Hunter didn't get hurt). It doesn't hurt that his attitude and swagger was perfect for the city of Atlanta. It is just funny all these national media acting like Trae has hit another level when he's been playing this good for 2 years.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Schlenk had a plan

Schlenk's "plan" was entirely marketing based.

Basketball reasons were secondary to anything else.

[ISiddiqui]

You may have missed that the Hawks are the in the Eastern Conference Finals...

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[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You may have missed that the Hawks are the in the Eastern Conference Finals...

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That is also a marketing ploy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You may have missed that the Hawks are the in the Eastern Conference Finals...

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I didn't say it hasn't worked out (though hopefully Milwaukee will put an end to it shortly)

I said that it had nothing to do with why they made the draft day decision.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Atlanta Hawks were 9 of 16 from the free throw line tonight. Annual salary of those contributing? $54,209,102

The Milwaukee Bucks were 11 of 21 from the free throw line tonight. Annual salary of those involved? $98,388,598

20 of 37 from the line (54.1%)

$152,597,700 a year doesn't buy what it used to

[bob]

Now that Atlanta has punched out "star player injured by ref", I think they just need "fan interrupts key play" to finish their sports misery bingo card.

They have already filled out "star player arrested for dog fighting", "star player kills teammate", "team blows massive lead in championship", "franchise moves", and "whatever the hell the Braves do every fall" already.

[Atocep]

Scottie Pippen wanted to jump into the headlines to remind everyone he's still a dumbass. For reference, he claims Phil Jackson gave Toni Kukoc the final shot in the playoff game he refused to enter because he's a racist and Jordan only agreed on the play to pass to Kerr because he was playing up for the cameras and that it was probably rehearsed.

[BYU 14]

Pippen is an idiot and timing this with his book coming out is surely just a coincidence.

[thesloppy]

The Last Dance really made Scottie Pippen seem like a truly monumental dumbass. Like I always thought he was soft-spoken and thoughtful, but The Last Dance made it seem like no, he really needs two full seconds to come up with the next word.

[miami_fan]

Welp, seems like this will be an early night for me. Trae is out for tonight's game.

[ISiddiqui]

I thought so too, but then the Bucks decided not to make any shots lol. Giannis has literally airballed two FREE THROWS. I can't believe the Hawks are up right now. But the Bucks can't shoot this bad all game, can they?

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[GrantDawg]

Giannis leg just went snap. That looks really bad.

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[ISiddiqui]

He did seem to walk a bit. He may be ok-ish for Game 5.

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[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I thought so too, but then the Bucks decided not to make any shots lol. Giannis has literally airballed two FREE THROWS. I can't believe the Hawks are up right now. But the Bucks can't shoot this bad all game, can they?

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Definitely did not see that one coming. I am surprised that the Bucks couldn't take advantage of Lemon Pepper Lou's defensive weakness. Giannis air balling free throws is not a rare thing unfortunately for the Bucks.

[GrantDawg]

Look like no permanent damage, but he is doubtful for the next game. So glad it wasn't what it looked like.

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[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

The Last Dance really made Scottie Pippen seem like a truly monumental dumbass. Like I always thought he was soft-spoken and thoughtful, but The Last Dance made it seem like no, he really needs two full seconds to come up with the next word.

Of course it did. The point of the exercise was to make Jordan look good at the expense of whoever was required. I've seen a number of interviews with Pippen over the years. He's not now, and has never been an idiot. Is he saying a lot of self-serving things right now? Absolutely, but he has a huge amount of company there.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

The point of the exercise was to make Jordan look good at the expense of whoever was required.

Yep. I mean, I loved it, but I also don't kid myself - for all intents and purposes it was basically an MJ commercial on himself.

[thesloppy]

True. It was remarkable how it managed to generate a bunch of positive nostalgia for the whole of the NBA at the time while also torpedoing seemingly every single individual involved.

[albionmoonlight]

If this had happened in the 80s or 90s, the teams would still be brawling:

Patrick Beverley shoved Chris Paul in the back and the teams got together at midcourt 😲 - YouTube

(People are getting on Frank Kaminsky for not standing up for Paul. But the NBA is so suspension-happy when fights are concerned, I actually understand why he didn't do anything. I'm sure that these guys are told over and over and over to not engage when things start to go down).

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If this had happened in the 80s or 90s, the teams would still be brawling:

Patrick Beverley shoved Chris Paul in the back and the teams got together at midcourt 😲 - YouTube

(People are getting on Frank Kaminsky for not standing up for Paul. But the NBA is so suspension-happy when fights are concerned, I actually understand why he didn't do anything. I'm sure that these guys are told over and over and over to not engage when things start to go down).

This may take us down all sorts of stereotypical/profiling type tropes but I will say it anyways. I don't think it has anything to do with Kaminsky being disciplined in not engaging. I just don't think he is built for that sort of interaction. Why would anyone expect Frank Kaminsky to involve himself in that situation? Nothing I have seen in the public basketball life of Frank Kaminsky would lead me to believe that he would play any part of in that. I don't mean that as a criticism either. He does not have to be. It is not everyone's automatic response to fight when something like that happens. It does not make him a punk or anything like that (I am not saying you are saying that btw).

[albionmoonlight]

What a funny streak. I wonder who even thought to look at it.

A teammate of @SHAQ had made the Finals for 37 straight years (!) but the streak has snapped with the Clippers (Rondo) being eliminated.

Via @Varsity_Journal pic.twitter.com/uvUJqqSFle

— Tas Melas (@TasMelas) July 1, 2021

[bob]

Now that the clippers are out, this will also be the first time in 50 years that none of the players in the finals have previously won an NBA championship.

[Ksyrup]

That is a sentence no one ever thought they would read in the history of basketball.